Screwed by MS? Who Tampered?

Domino427

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I've had to send in my 360 twice for a repair to the wireless sensor...the first time it was sent back "repaired" even though nothing was fixed, though the second time the wireless worked fine.

I had to send it back in shortly after when I received the "E64" error--something wrong with the DVD drive. However, I get the system back within a week saying it wasn't covered (even though I have an extended warranty through summer 2009), and a follow up call revealed they tagged my system "tampered". It's explained more in the letter, which I attached at the bottom. I've got pictures, too, of the areas they deemed "tampered". Picture A

Anyone else had this problem? Or have any suggestions for me? I don't want a $400 doorstop, nor do I want the other $500ish I've spend on games and accessories to sit and collect dust. Something needs to be done!



Here's the body of the letter I'm sending the Microsoft Legal Center, explaining the situation in more detail.

Here’s the situation: On June 14, 2007 I purchased a refurbished Xbox 360 on eBay. The system came with a two-year extended warranty, which extended into the summer of 2009. Immediately after purchasing the system, I called Microsoft to transfer the information of ownership to my name.

The system needed a small repair, as the system would not sync with any wireless controllers or devices. The first time I sent the system in for repair, the problem was not fixed, even though the paperwork said it was. I decided to hold off on sending the system back for a while and play with a wired controller instead.

Around late January to early February I sent the console back to have this defect repaired. Microsoft had the console for approximately three weeks, and then returned the console to me. I hooked the system up, and much to my happiness everything seemed to be working fine. Sadly, that did not last long. Within a week, I began receiving an error message (error E64) when powering on the console. This error was accompanied by a red flashing light in the 4th quadrant of the “Ring of Light”. Naturally, I called Microsoft back at 1-800-4-MY-XBOX, and setup the process of having my system sent in for repair again.

This time however, I received the system back unusually quick—within just a week—accompanied by a letter stating that my console was not repaired due to “damage excluded from that covered by the Xbox Limited Warranty.” Immediately I called the Xbox call center to find out what the reasoning was that excluded my system from coverage. After discussing the issue with a customer service representative, and waiting a week for a return phone call with the results of the investigation, I was told that my system was rejected due to tampering.

As you can imagine, this came as quite a surprise to me. Namely, who tampered with the system? Over the previous month and a half, the system was in the possession of Microsoft, and only in my possession for merely a week of that time. After a day’s worth of contemplation and discussion with fellow Xbox owners, I decided to call Microsoft back and request a more thorough explanation, along with requesting that Microsoft honor the Extended Warranty and repair the console. After speaking with multiple representatives, I was told by a supervisor named Joseph that the system has been “tagged” as tampered, and thus any attempts to send in the console for repair would result in the system being immediately returned to me unrepaired. When I asked Joseph how the system had been allegedly tampered with, he told me two areas were documented as tampered: the sticker under the front faceplate had been ripped, and the serial number plate had been defaced and scratched.

After examining the system, I’m left at a loss. The front sticker, as you can see in photograph A, is in perfect shape. There are no signs of wearing, tearing, ripping, or any other damage to this sticker. On the rear plate that contains the system serial number and information, there is a slight vertical scratch that does not disfigure the serial number at all, as can be seen in photograph B. In fact, the large serial number and barcode remains untouched. It is my understanding that the front sticker would be ripped if the system was opened, and the sticker is clearly in one piece. It is also my understanding tampering with the serial number is a matter of protection from stolen items—in which case a thief would scratch out the entire serial number, not merely put a slight, razor-thin vertical scratch on the plate. The only possibility in my mind for any blemishes to the system would stem from the previous repair, in which the repair technician would have had to open the front of the system (near the sticker) in order to replace the wireless sensor. There were no previous problems with tampering when the system was sent in for earlier repairs—including the repair that was returned just a week before the system was sent back.

Lastly, there is no logical reason for me to have opened the system on my own. To purchase an Extended Warranty—which guarantees free repair of the system—and then open the system myself, thus voiding the warranty, would be foolish.
 
[quote name='klwillis45']Good letter, firm but nice. I'll think you'll be taken care of. Good luck.[/quote]


Agreed.

Literacy and the ability to properly compose a letter will most likely give you the result you seek.

Sidebar, have there ever been reports of such tampering by Micros-- *remembers* Ah yes.

My best to your situation, Domino.
 
my refurb from microcenter had scrape marks on the serial tag

360scratch0.jpg


oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo fuck

MS might do the same shit to me.
 
They won't do shit for you.

I went through this with my OG Xbox when it was still under warranty, where I sent it in for repair, and then sent it back to me with a note saying that as it was opened, it wouldn't be repaired. Not only would they not fix it, but they blackballed the S/N on it to never be repaired.

I filed a BBB complaint with MS over this, they did nothing. Spoke with multiple people inside of the Xbox division, nothing.

If they fix this, then you're luckier than I am, and only because it's a 360 would you be likely to get the situation resolved. I'm betting they'll tell you to get bent.

If you file the email/letter with them, follow up with a BBB complaint, which gets it much quicker on their radar screen.
 
[quote name='shrike4242']They won't do shit for you.

I went through this with my OG Xbox when it was still under warranty, where I sent it in for repair, and then sent it back to me with a note saying that as it was opened, it wouldn't be repaired. Not only would they not fix it, but they blackballed the S/N on it to never be repaired.

I filed a BBB complaint with MS over this, they did nothing. Spoke with multiple people inside of the Xbox division, nothing.

If they fix this, then you're luckier than I am, and only because it's a 360 would you be likely to get the situation resolved. I'm betting they'll tell you to get bent.

If you file the email/letter with them, follow up with a BBB complaint, which gets it much quicker on their radar screen.[/quote]

Thanks for the advice...I was considering filing a BBB complaint right away...I thought maybe to let it go until I got a response on this, but I might go ahead and do it right away instead. Still not sure yet, but I'll keep this in mind. Thanks!
 
[quote name='shrike4242']They won't do shit for you.

I went through this with my OG Xbox when it was still under warranty, where I sent it in for repair, and then sent it back to me with a note saying that as it was opened, it wouldn't be repaired. Not only would they not fix it, but they blackballed the S/N on it to never be repaired.

I filed a BBB complaint with MS over this, they did nothing. Spoke with multiple people inside of the Xbox division, nothing.

If they fix this, then you're luckier than I am, and only because it's a 360 would you be likely to get the situation resolved. I'm betting they'll tell you to get bent.

If you file the email/letter with them, follow up with a BBB complaint, which gets it much quicker on their radar screen.[/quote]

Guess the repair center is going to smack me with the same excuse huh?
 
Wow MS is stupid. They better fix this for you. Good luck! If you have an extended warranty they should cover the console unless of course they can find obvious tampering. I expect the sticker to be ripped in 2. Besides they just worked on the console, wow.
 
If they keep this up, you should take them to small claims court. You should win, and they should have to pay you back the cost of your Xbox (and maybe pay for your time in suing them).
 
If they just tell you to fuck off again, send this to Kotaku. A little publicity can certainly only help your case.
 
i have to agree with shrike. they will do nothing.
when dealing with big business i always find they won't read your email and, instead, will keep sending a form letter saying the same thing. once you finally get past the form letters, someone writes you to say the same thing again. it's just a circle of no help.
also, the BBB is worthless, my experience is that they merely look to get the case out of their queue without actually resolving an issue. in fact, my case went as "not resolved" and they dropped it, even though the letter the company sent to the BBB contradicted their own words. BBB is hardly in favor of the consumer... but i won't get in to that any more.
 
BBB helped me with an issue with Phillips. I was very impressed. Most companies do not want a negative posted from BBB about their company.
 
if this continues just put some black smudges on the outside of the case and say microsoft wiped off important artwork.
 
Your email is great, but the cynical part of me thinks they won't even read it. Time to harass them on the phone. Daily.
 
Crap... You got me worried now. I just removed my faceplate for my system today for the first time and the MS seal label looks kind of odd, but the back label is in perfect condition. Hope they don't deny based on that. System was bought brand new and have had it 10 months. Good luck with your repair, I'm going through same thing with my drive.
2366238771_e7d4e15489.jpg
 
this exact same thing happened with me last week. Did you end up getting anywhere with them? I filed with the BBB just to make me feel a little better if nothing else.
 
Nothing yet.

BBB set it up with MS so that I could send it back in and have it re-evaluated. I have a feeling they didn't do shit though, because I got the damn thing back in no more than a week, which tells me they saw the tampered tag associated with the serial, and didn't even bother. Though it does have a bunch of pen marks on it now...

I'm trying to re-open the case with the BBB, but I've got little to no free time right now, so it's hard for me to really go at this.
 
What I hate most about Microsoft is that they have the odacity to send this guy back his system, (Which does not appear to have been opened) and tell him that they will not repair it. If Microsoft would'nt have built such a defective console (higher failure rate than the PS2), then this man would not be going through this right now. This kinda stuff really irks me. I really hope that you get your console back repaired, but knowing MS and the 360, it is just a matter of time before it craps out again.
 
The tag on my refurb I got from MS has the label in the exact same condition as the OP's. Seems to me that whoever is in charge of putting the new tags on the consoles is being careless.

Also, looking at the back of mine, it has a vertical razor cut on the serial label, tot he right of the barcode.

This seems to be more than sheer coincidence. As said, this was a replacement from MS for my old broken 360.
 
Hi,

I have the exact same situation as you. I sent in my XBox for its 3rd repair, and it came back to me unrepaired! They say I tampered with it but I have definitely not. The warranty sticker is still on it.

Are you the same person that submitted a story to the Consumerist? Someone there is having the same problem as us if it's not you.

Here's my picture. The sticker (like everyone else's) looks a little weird, but I did NOT break this seal at all.

img0814vy2.jpg


You know I don't have to lie to the CAG forums, and usually I wouldn't even go so far as to post this kind of stuff online, but this is so infuriating that I registered here upon seeing this thread.
 
[quote name='hardwo0d']What I hate most about Microsoft is that they have the odacity to send this guy back his system, (Which does not appear to have been opened) and tell him that they will not repair it. If Microsoft would'nt have built such a defective console (higher failure rate than the PS2), then this man would not be going through this right now. This kinda stuff really irks me. I really hope that you get your console back repaired, but knowing MS and the 360, it is just a matter of time before it craps out again.[/quote]


Thanks for the support.

I am the Jeff in the Consumerist.

Here is the link again

http://consumerist.com/5009844/micr...with-xbox-tamper+proof-sticker-says-otherwise
 
[quote name='nastri83']Hi,

I have the exact same situation as you. I sent in my XBox for its 3rd repair, and it came back to me unrepaired! They say I tampered with it but I have definitely not. The warranty sticker is still on it.

Are you the same person that submitted a story to the Consumerist? Someone there is having the same problem as us if it's not you.

Here's my picture. The sticker (like everyone else's) looks a little weird, but I did NOT break this seal at all.

img0814vy2.jpg


You know I don't have to lie to the CAG forums, and usually I wouldn't even go so far as to post this kind of stuff online, but this is so infuriating that I registered here upon seeing this thread.[/quote]


Sticker does look eerily as similar as mine. Damn, sorry other people are in this boat.
 
My old 360 had a sticker that looked kinda like that (not quite as bad though) and MS fixed it (I never removed it). I don't see why they would try to screw honest people out of repairs when those stickers can be taken off with ZERO damage if you know how.
 
[quote name='Danil ACE']My old 360 had a sticker that looked kinda like that (not quite as bad though) and MS fixed it (I never removed it). I don't see why they would try to screw honest people out of repairs when those stickers can be taken off with ZERO damage if you know how.[/quote]

From what I've read, they use this industrial glue that is almost impossible to peel the sticker off without getting it all messy. Could just be someone talking out of their ass :roll: but that's what they said...
 
[quote name='Domino427']From what I've read, they use this industrial glue that is almost impossible to peel the sticker off without getting it all messy. Could just be someone talking out of their ass :roll: but that's what they said...[/quote]
Search for "360 sticker" on youtube. The first three videos show how easy it is to remove them. (even the new design).
 
My console was supposedly fixed within a night, I guess I'm gonna be in the same boat as the threadstarter.

I even checked my sticker after reading this thread, and sure enough, I'll probably be another innocent victim of this egregious set of mistakes on the part of MS's "Customer Service."

1001038ho2.jpg


This is also after waiting an extra 2 weeks because they decided to send my return box via FedEx, which came to me after 10 days, looking like this:

tmpphpihby3ulb4.jpg


I still have an unopened Rock Band Special Edition, just waiting to be played, too :(
 
I'm really afraid to buy a 360 anymore. All the issues im hearing and seeing is almost not worth getting one.
 
[quote name='Phryo88']I'm really afraid to buy a 360 anymore. All the issues im hearing and seeing is almost not worth getting one.[/QUOTE]

Me too. I've been on the fence for almost 2 years about buying a 360. Then my friends who have one - one by one- started getting red rings. Out of the 12 people I know, 11 have had to send in their consoles, 4 have had to send them in twice.

After seeing this thread and it's responses, I think I've finally decided to never get a 360 and just wait to get a ps3 when there are some decent games for it. MS has shot itself in the foot with their hardware problems.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Me too. I've been on the fence for almost 2 years about buying a 360. Then my friends who have one - one by one- started getting red rings. Out of the 12 people I know, 11 have had to send in their consoles, 4 have had to send them in twice.

After seeing this thread and it's responses, I think I've finally decided to never get a 360 and just wait to get a ps3 when there are some decent games for it. MS has shot itself in the foot with their hardware problems.[/quote]

It's way less of a problem now since they fixed the heatsink. I've had two shit out on me and while it does suck, I'm not really mad about it. They fixed it for free. When the console has this many must play games and this good of an online service, it's worth it. Of course that's for me, and not necessarily everyone.
 
It might make me feel differently if MS came out and said "we fucked up by not putting in a heatsink," then had a marketing campaign assuring new customers they've fixed the problem - but they haven't done this. It's all been rather hush-hush.

Aside from the extended warranty announcement, they haven't admitted any guilt or given assurances they've changed their manufacturing process or even licked the problem.. I have no idea if that box on the shelf is going to be a revised console or an old one that's almost guaranteed to fail. Hell, I don't even know if the revision isn't going to red ring inside of a month.

When I hear of people having to send back their consoles multiple times and the percentage of failure is so great, I don't have much confidence in a manufacturer who hasn't been up front about their hardware, or at least has a marketing campaign to erase the negativity I've felt about the problem.

I think it pisses me off even more because a still WANT one so badly. If I didn't want one, I wouldn't give two shits about these service problems.
 
Awesome.

The "gamestop refurbished" 360 I bought yesterday has no warranty sticker...I didn't think they really opened them and worked on em. The clerk said MS would replace it if it RRODs, but I guess not now, eh?

I want to return it, but it was a cheap ala carte Elite...I don't want to pay $450 for a freaking color. Damn it MS...rather, damn it Apple for making MS think white is cool.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']It might make me feel differently if MS came out and said "we fucked up by not putting in a heatsink," then had a marketing campaign assuring new customers they've fixed the problem - but they haven't done this. It's all been rather hush-hush.

Aside from the extended warranty announcement, they haven't admitted any guilt or given assurances they've changed their manufacturing process or even licked the problem.. I have no idea if that box on the shelf is going to be a revised console or an old one that's almost guaranteed to fail. Hell, I don't even know if the revision isn't going to red ring inside of a month.

When I hear of people having to send back their consoles multiple times and the percentage of failure is so great, I don't have much confidence in a manufacturer who hasn't been up front about their hardware, or at least has a marketing campaign to erase the negativity I've felt about the problem.

I think it pisses me off even more because a still WANT one so badly. If I didn't want one, I wouldn't give two shits about these service problems.[/quote]

you mean to tell that xbox 360 dose not have a heat sink wouldn't all 360 console catch on fire
 
Well supposedly the next 360 revision will have a smaller GPU chip which "should" solve the problem as supposedly the major heat is from the GPU.

Miraculously enough my launch 360 still works fine but I wouldn't mind having one not outputting so much damned heat.
 
I guess it depends on your luck. I've sent in two consoles with no warranty sticker at all (got a XCM chameleon case) and have had no problem.

But then again I sent mine in with red rings, maybe you dont need a warranty sticker for red rings.
 
Good news may be on the way!

I got a phone call last night from MS while I was at work.

They told me that my console was marked as tampered, but that may have been done incorrectly, and that they were setting up a repair order for me and would be shipping me another box to send it in and have it re-evaluated.

We'll see what happens. *fingers-crossed*
 
[quote name='Domino427']Good news may be on the way!

I got a phone call last night from MS while I was at work.

They told me that my console was marked as tampered, but that may have been done incorrectly, and that they were setting up a repair order for me and would be shipping me another box to send it in and have it re-evaluated.

We'll see what happens. *fingers-crossed*[/quote]

Hoping for the best. Based on how many others that have received refurbs with the stickers in the exact same condition, MS should make (better) make good on the repair.
 
Best of luck man. I didn't want to get a 360 ever, just because of the RROD. I finally got one though. But, lucky me, my Warranty sticker was in such a position where the hair dryer tricked worked better than it should have. Thanks for that tip. ;)
 
Awesome news. I'd say keep bothering them until they get you a working 360. There is NO reason you should be denied warranty service—you have done nothing to void your warranty and it's up to MS to treat you like a customer and not a criminal.

If they turn you down again, call them nonstop until you get someone who's willing to advocate for you. Don't be rude, just persistent.
 
Just in case anyone is wondering, I received a replacement unit today. Working fine. Microsoft even called to confirm and make sure all was well. Finally, things seem to be solved. *crosses fingers*
 
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