confoosious
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as someone who lived once in a really nice part of new jersey... NJ is 
ing ridiculous.
ing ridiculous.
Severe mcDonalds beating
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[quote name='dohdough']Just because you can't understand it doesn't make it a dodge. Social identity is a complex thing that shifts according to our environments. People are going to act different at work, school, home, in a club, a bar, etc. There are complex interactions between people that are shaped by environmental pressues outside of the interacting individuals' control.[/QUOTE]
And dodging again. The question was, what do you call the way the people were acting if all three of them were white?
As far as your social identity construct there, that has nothing to do with this particular discussion. It's about as cogent as firehoses are to fly fishing because there's water involved.
I never saw the snooki incident, but yes, that's savage, ridiculous, animal like behaviour. It is subhuman as it obviously isn't acting as the sophisticated beasts that we're supposed to be while maintaining a social order.
And dodging again. The question was, what do you call the way the people were acting if all three of them were white?
As far as your social identity construct there, that has nothing to do with this particular discussion. It's about as cogent as firehoses are to fly fishing because there's water involved.
I never saw the snooki incident, but yes, that's savage, ridiculous, animal like behaviour. It is subhuman as it obviously isn't acting as the sophisticated beasts that we're supposed to be while maintaining a social order.
[quote name='nasum']And dodging again. The question was, what do you call the way the people were acting if all three of them were white?[/quote]
If it looked like a bunch of rich white kids was attacking the cashier, who was also white, we'd say something related to the class that we perceived the customers to be. If the customers looked like poor meth-head rednecks, we'd also say something related to class. FUNNY HOW CONTEXT AND ENVIRONMENT IS IMPORTANT TO HOW WE PERCEIVE THINGS.
If it looked like a bunch of rich white kids was attacking the cashier, who was also white, we'd say something related to the class that we perceived the customers to be. If the customers looked like poor meth-head rednecks, we'd also say something related to class. FUNNY HOW CONTEXT AND ENVIRONMENT IS IMPORTANT TO HOW WE PERCEIVE THINGS.
It does and I've explained why in more than one way in more than one post. "It depends on the environment" aka "context" is not a very complex concept.
Ahh gotcha, no matter what is happening it has to be about class/race/gender/etc... politics. People can't just be people, and fools can't just be fools. It always has to be demonstrative of some grand theme.
Must be a stressful world you live in.
Goes back to a point I made long ago, you NEED this to be about racism or any other ism because without that you don't have your platform for bitching. You'd rather ignore any prgress made and continue going on about inequity at the hands of things that happened 200+ years ago. Then go get your time machine and fix it Peabody. Until then, appreciate progress made and make more progress. Protip: Bitching on the video game site that it sucks to be black is not making progress, to the contrary it irritates racial wounds and creates animosity.
Must be a stressful world you live in.
Goes back to a point I made long ago, you NEED this to be about racism or any other ism because without that you don't have your platform for bitching. You'd rather ignore any prgress made and continue going on about inequity at the hands of things that happened 200+ years ago. Then go get your time machine and fix it Peabody. Until then, appreciate progress made and make more progress. Protip: Bitching on the video game site that it sucks to be black is not making progress, to the contrary it irritates racial wounds and creates animosity.
[quote name='nasum']Ahh gotcha, no matter what is happening it has to be about class/race/gender/etc... politics. People can't just be people, and fools can't just be fools. It always has to be demonstrative of some grand theme.
Must be a stressful world you live in.[/quote]
Ok. So what do you think the reason is for you being a patriarchal ignorant asshole then? Do you really think your environment has nothing to do with it?
And just so you know, I get by just fine not living in ignorance and without the massive amounts of dissonance that would make it difficult to tie my shoes.
Somehow talking about these things perpetuates racism, classism, sexisms, and all the other -isms in the world. If we'd only ignore things, they'd just go away on their own. Or maybe it just makes you uncomfortable because it starts picking apart the threads that hold your fragile ego together.
You mentioned that you play bass or guitar in some other thread. If you play an acoustic guitar, doesn't the type of string, material of the wood, strength of the pluck, type of room, density of the air, temperature, etc affect the sound of the guitar? And doesn't a different set of physics affect the sound of an electric guitar? If I said that an electric guitar is the exact same thing as an acoustic guitar and insisted that they were, would I be an ignorant asshole and you an elitist muscial snob that only wants to point out marginal differences?
Must be a stressful world you live in.[/quote]
Ok. So what do you think the reason is for you being a patriarchal ignorant asshole then? Do you really think your environment has nothing to do with it?
And just so you know, I get by just fine not living in ignorance and without the massive amounts of dissonance that would make it difficult to tie my shoes.
You're right. Inequality and discrimination according to those statuses don't occur anymore. I'm just some loser with a chip on my shoulder because gay people are allowed to get legally recognized marriages all over the country, women don't make 25% less than men on average, 1 out 4 of every black man hasn't been or is ever incarcerated, we don't have wealth the inequality of the gilded age, and etc etc forever.
Somehow talking about these things perpetuates racism, classism, sexisms, and all the other -isms in the world. If we'd only ignore things, they'd just go away on their own. Or maybe it just makes you uncomfortable because it starts picking apart the threads that hold your fragile ego together.
You mentioned that you play bass or guitar in some other thread. If you play an acoustic guitar, doesn't the type of string, material of the wood, strength of the pluck, type of room, density of the air, temperature, etc affect the sound of the guitar? And doesn't a different set of physics affect the sound of an electric guitar? If I said that an electric guitar is the exact same thing as an acoustic guitar and insisted that they were, would I be an ignorant asshole and you an elitist muscial snob that only wants to point out marginal differences?
on a fundamental level they are the same thing and the same rules are applied to how they work. Subtle nuance can be found by the type that likes to find it but listen to an album and tell me what kind of guitar it is (beyond electric or acoustic, is that a Strat, a Tele, an LP?) blah blah blah.
For the masses, electric guitar is sufficient. It has nothing to do with ignorance, willful or otherwise, it just serves the purpose.
Unfortunately your analogy serves my point further. There are nice guitars and crappy guitars. There are guitars that are simply made from bad wood that shouldn't have passed quality control. The necks are warped, the truss rods are made of weak material etc... There are also some shitty people out in the world. The guitar neck could be maple (white) or mahogany (black), but if it's shite wood the thing is terrible. The person could be white (Bernie Madof, Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson) or black (three people acting stupid at McDonalds, gang initiation rites requiring murder/rape, you name it) but they're still shite people who shouldn't have passed quality control.
Besides, the guitar is a tool that is used by the person to create or recite. People aren't tools that are forced to operate in certain ways. Unless of course we aren't sophisticated animals as you suggest we are?
Frowning upon the foolish actions of one situation does not exalt a preferred race. I know you like to push this to the audience as my line of thinking, but it simply isn't true. What is true is that I simply don't give a shit about groups. I'm concerned about individuals. The individuals at McDonalds were idiots that (hopefully) aren't demonstrative to any group they may or may not represent because they're idiots and groups shouldn't want idiots around.
By saying that this group or that group literally can't move forward because of outside forces, you're denying any success that they have.
Patriarchal? Jesus Christ kid... Feel free to know me by some fabricated list of personality traits that you wish to apply.
An example of how it perpetuates:
clak or camoor's dad was a black cop that couldn't arrest white people
that has changed
perpetuating that story keeps black fear of whites alive and well
what purpose does that serve? Why continually scratch that wound? Black cops can arrest white people now. Problem solved. Let's move on to the next problem! No? Oh ok, let's talk more about black cops not arresting white people 20 years ago. It's helpful!
Well me here's that vacuum sound! I suppose the only reason that women make 25% less (ALWAYS!) is because of the system that is set against them and nothing else. There is simply no other possible reason. Well, other than when you lump together a large enough group of people, the individual failures within that group will begin to erode those that outshine the rest. Meg Whitman, not making 25% less than me...
When gay marriage comes up for vote, I'm all for it. Who am I to deny the divorce lawyers additional income streams?
And that's the point. Groups showcase the worst (crabs dragging each other back into the barrel) and tend to not show off those that do well (crabs not in the barrel). You'd like to call these people outliers while focusing on the mediocre and grind them through the millstone of being the examples of their group.
Yeah, it sucks that black people are arrested and incarcerated more. Instead of saying that you're going to get arrested because of this set of circumstances, let's offer a nice laminated card with two sides. Side A: Here's some shit that will get you thrown in jail. Side B: Here's some shit that will not get you thrown in jail.
Choose wisely.
Note, getting into a fight at McDonalds and clubbing a person with a pipe is not located on Side B. Volunteering at the community center is not located on Side A.
Nah, let's just continue to victimize the group at the expense of a the individuals who have what it takes to make it out of the economic and social hell in which they find themselves.
For the masses, electric guitar is sufficient. It has nothing to do with ignorance, willful or otherwise, it just serves the purpose.
Unfortunately your analogy serves my point further. There are nice guitars and crappy guitars. There are guitars that are simply made from bad wood that shouldn't have passed quality control. The necks are warped, the truss rods are made of weak material etc... There are also some shitty people out in the world. The guitar neck could be maple (white) or mahogany (black), but if it's shite wood the thing is terrible. The person could be white (Bernie Madof, Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson) or black (three people acting stupid at McDonalds, gang initiation rites requiring murder/rape, you name it) but they're still shite people who shouldn't have passed quality control.
Besides, the guitar is a tool that is used by the person to create or recite. People aren't tools that are forced to operate in certain ways. Unless of course we aren't sophisticated animals as you suggest we are?
Frowning upon the foolish actions of one situation does not exalt a preferred race. I know you like to push this to the audience as my line of thinking, but it simply isn't true. What is true is that I simply don't give a shit about groups. I'm concerned about individuals. The individuals at McDonalds were idiots that (hopefully) aren't demonstrative to any group they may or may not represent because they're idiots and groups shouldn't want idiots around.
By saying that this group or that group literally can't move forward because of outside forces, you're denying any success that they have.
Patriarchal? Jesus Christ kid... Feel free to know me by some fabricated list of personality traits that you wish to apply.
An example of how it perpetuates:
clak or camoor's dad was a black cop that couldn't arrest white people
that has changed
perpetuating that story keeps black fear of whites alive and well
what purpose does that serve? Why continually scratch that wound? Black cops can arrest white people now. Problem solved. Let's move on to the next problem! No? Oh ok, let's talk more about black cops not arresting white people 20 years ago. It's helpful!
Well
me here's that vacuum sound! I suppose the only reason that women make 25% less (ALWAYS!) is because of the system that is set against them and nothing else. There is simply no other possible reason. Well, other than when you lump together a large enough group of people, the individual failures within that group will begin to erode those that outshine the rest. Meg Whitman, not making 25% less than me...When gay marriage comes up for vote, I'm all for it. Who am I to deny the divorce lawyers additional income streams?
And that's the point. Groups showcase the worst (crabs dragging each other back into the barrel) and tend to not show off those that do well (crabs not in the barrel). You'd like to call these people outliers while focusing on the mediocre and grind them through the millstone of being the examples of their group.
Yeah, it sucks that black people are arrested and incarcerated more. Instead of saying that you're going to get arrested because of this set of circumstances, let's offer a nice laminated card with two sides. Side A: Here's some shit that will get you thrown in jail. Side B: Here's some shit that will not get you thrown in jail.
Choose wisely.
Note, getting into a fight at McDonalds and clubbing a person with a pipe is not located on Side B. Volunteering at the community center is not located on Side A.
Nah, let's just continue to victimize the group at the expense of a the individuals who have what it takes to make it out of the economic and social hell in which they find themselves.
[quote name='nasum']on a fundamental level they are the same thing and the same rules are applied to how they work. Subtle nuance can be found by the type that likes to find it but listen to an album and tell me what kind of guitar it is (beyond electric or acoustic, is that a Strat, a Tele, an LP?) blah blah blah.
For the masses, electric guitar is sufficient. It has nothing to do with ignorance, willful or otherwise, it just serves the purpose.
Unfortunately your analogy serves my point further. There are nice guitars and crappy guitars. There are guitars that are simply made from bad wood that shouldn't have passed quality control. The necks are warped, the truss rods are made of weak material etc... There are also some shitty people out in the world. The guitar neck could be maple (white) or mahogany (black), but if it's shite wood the thing is terrible. The person could be white (Bernie Madof, Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson) or black (three people acting stupid at McDonalds, gang initiation rites requiring murder/rape, you name it) but they're still shite people who shouldn't have passed quality control.[/quote]
And all those defective(intentional or not) elements have an affect on the sound signature.
And to deny that people are targeted as groups, for better or worse, is equally moronic.
Does that mean that individualism shouldn't be taken into account? I'm not saying that either, but individuals do not have the ability for self-definition outside of the group it's a member of because there are always going to be external groups and forces. This is why the individual doesn't matter when it comes to systemic problems.
I wonder how you developed that trait!
out of the black and Latino communities. Fixing one one problem doesn't make things right, just that one thing better.
And it was Soomeg's(sp?) father.
For the masses, electric guitar is sufficient. It has nothing to do with ignorance, willful or otherwise, it just serves the purpose.
Unfortunately your analogy serves my point further. There are nice guitars and crappy guitars. There are guitars that are simply made from bad wood that shouldn't have passed quality control. The necks are warped, the truss rods are made of weak material etc... There are also some shitty people out in the world. The guitar neck could be maple (white) or mahogany (black), but if it's shite wood the thing is terrible. The person could be white (Bernie Madof, Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson) or black (three people acting stupid at McDonalds, gang initiation rites requiring murder/rape, you name it) but they're still shite people who shouldn't have passed quality control.[/quote]
And all those defective(intentional or not) elements have an affect on the sound signature.
Animals can be tools.
If one person in your town became a billionaire, does that mean that anyone following the did the same things in a different time will become a billionaire? Of course not. Only a moron would think that.
And to deny that people are targeted as groups, for better or worse, is equally moronic.
Does that mean that individualism shouldn't be taken into account? I'm not saying that either, but individuals do not have the ability for self-definition outside of the group it's a member of because there are always going to be external groups and forces. This is why the individual doesn't matter when it comes to systemic problems.
Yeah, you've never used any "father knows best" simplistic hand-waving bullshit as arguments...
I wonder how you developed that trait!
Are you saying that the legacy of that period doesn't affect us today? Because it does and what you're saying is only one aspect of that particular problem because white cops still arrest the
out of the black and Latino communities. Fixing one one problem doesn't make things right, just that one thing better.And it was Soomeg's(sp?) father.
I bet she makes less than her peers that have sunk bigger companies. And you still fail to see it from a systemic view. An individual anecdote is not statistically signifigant. Obama is president, does that mean that racism is over? Herman Cain made more money last year that you're going to make in two lifetimes. Does that mean white is the new black?Well
Should we not talk about it because it's a downer and serves only to oppress them eventhough talking about their inequity is the opposite of oppressing them? And your vote is next to worthless if you're the only one voting for it and everyone else is voting against it.
well rape victims were in the correct environment accirding to your obviously superior logic...
But then again, you're evading the point of my last statement so you can prance around with the "look at this jackass" finger pointed at me. Good for you, the cookies are in the mail.
Different lists and circumstances aside, white and black people will get a time out for being naughty when they beat the out of each other with pipes. They likely won't get said time out while planting a garden.
"Not everyone has access to gardens because of historical economic depression based on racism"
http://communitygarden.org/
Alcoholic parent?
Here's a little story about dohdough and his dad:
daddy! the wheel fell off my bike!
Well son, was the road you were riding your bike on paved very well? How about the general construction of the bike? What was your rate of speed? Uphill? Downhill?
This one sided discussion goes on for about fifteen minutes until dohdough no longer gives a shit about the bike, in fact while he used to be ambivalent towards bikes he now hates theing things.
My dad and I:
daddy! The wheel fell off my bike!
get the wheel, get the bike, tighten the bolt that affixes the wheel to the bike, go ride your bike.
This story is about 2 minutes long and I go off to once again enjoy riding my bike.
My apologies for calling you kid in the last post. I'd hate to appear to have an age bias in addition to all the others.
But then again, you're evading the point of my last statement so you can prance around with the "look at this jackass" finger pointed at me. Good for you, the cookies are in the mail.
Different lists and circumstances aside, white and black people will get a time out for being naughty when they beat the
out of each other with pipes. They likely won't get said time out while planting a garden."Not everyone has access to gardens because of historical economic depression based on racism"
http://communitygarden.org/
Alcoholic parent?
Here's a little story about dohdough and his dad:
daddy! the wheel fell off my bike!
Well son, was the road you were riding your bike on paved very well? How about the general construction of the bike? What was your rate of speed? Uphill? Downhill?
This one sided discussion goes on for about fifteen minutes until dohdough no longer gives a shit about the bike, in fact while he used to be ambivalent towards bikes he now hates the
ing things.My dad and I:
daddy! The wheel fell off my bike!
get the wheel, get the bike, tighten the bolt that affixes the wheel to the bike, go ride your bike.
This story is about 2 minutes long and I go off to once again enjoy riding my bike.
My apologies for calling you kid in the last post. I'd hate to appear to have an age bias in addition to all the others.
[quote name='nasum']well rape victims were in the correct environment accirding to your obviously superior logic...[/QUOTE]
Only if you have a superficial understanding about what I'm arguing, of which you do.
Only if you have a superficial understanding about what I'm arguing, of which you do.
Sure, but white people will suffer less consequences. At no point did I say there was no overlap on the lists. Different consequences infers that there is.Different lists and circumstances aside, white and black people will get a time out for being naughty when they beat the
"Not everyone has access to gardens because of historical economic depression based on racism"
http://communitygarden.org/
Not that your analogy is in anyways accurate, but using the example of your father being the "do-er," and there's a stereotype in there, one would infer that he actually has the experience and familiarity of how a bicycle works and how to fix that particular issue by asking the same kinds of questions, at an earlier point in times, that you claim my own father would ask. Your father wasn't born into the world with that knowledge anymore than my father.Alcoholic parent?
Here's a little story about dohdough and his dad:
daddy! the wheel fell off my bike!
Well son, was the road you were riding your bike on paved very well? How about the general construction of the bike? What was your rate of speed? Uphill? Downhill?
This one sided discussion goes on for about fifteen minutes until dohdough no longer gives a shit about the bike, in fact while he used to be ambivalent towards bikes he now hates the
My dad and I:
daddy! The wheel fell off my bike!
get the wheel, get the bike, tighten the bolt that affixes the wheel to the bike, go ride your bike.
This story is about 2 minutes long and I go off to once again enjoy riding my bike.
My apologies for talking about rape. I understand that by me talking about rape, it is the same as raping someone. Sorry for being a rapist.
Access_Denied
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[quote name='dohdough']Neither parties deserved what they got, but goddamn, that guy totally snapped. Unfortunately, it stops being self-defense after he kepted beating them after he already beat them into the ground. I can't even imagine the amount of ptsd the guy must've had from being in prison.[/QUOTE]
After reading the whole article, yeah, he did overreact, but can you blame him? Think about it. He JUST got out of a 10 year prison sentence that started when he was 19. At 19, you're barely getting to know the world. He spent the next 10 years in prison where prison became his world. I mean, the guy didn't know anything else. The article says that he hit the girl every time she tried to get up, even though he told her to stay down. He wanted it to end, he just didn't know how to do it.
I'm not saying that the guy deserves to walk, but I think his mental condition should be taken into account. He clearly isn't all there.
After reading the whole article, yeah, he did overreact, but can you blame him? Think about it. He JUST got out of a 10 year prison sentence that started when he was 19. At 19, you're barely getting to know the world. He spent the next 10 years in prison where prison became his world. I mean, the guy didn't know anything else. The article says that he hit the girl every time she tried to get up, even though he told her to stay down. He wanted it to end, he just didn't know how to do it.
I'm not saying that the guy deserves to walk, but I think his mental condition should be taken into account. He clearly isn't all there.
[quote name='Access_Denied']After reading the whole article, yeah, he did overreact, but can you blame him? Think about it. He JUST got out of a 10 year prison sentence that started when he was 19. At 19, you're barely getting to know the world. He spent the next 10 years in prison where prison became his world. I mean, the guy didn't know anything else. The article says that he hit the girl every time she tried to get up, even though he told her to stay down. He wanted it to end, he just didn't know how to do it.
I'm not saying that the guy deserves to walk, but I think his mental condition should be taken into account. He clearly isn't all there.[/QUOTE]
Did you read what this guy did to be put into prison in the first place? He shot and killed someone outside a mall and hit a kid in the process. Prison didn't make him violent.
That being said, I hope that the fact that the women attacked him is taken into account when the judge sentences him, and I hope he can get his life back on track.
I'm not saying that the guy deserves to walk, but I think his mental condition should be taken into account. He clearly isn't all there.[/QUOTE]
Did you read what this guy did to be put into prison in the first place? He shot and killed someone outside a mall and hit a kid in the process. Prison didn't make him violent.
That being said, I hope that the fact that the women attacked him is taken into account when the judge sentences him, and I hope he can get his life back on track.
[quote name='Access_Denied']After reading the whole article, yeah, he did overreact, but can you blame him? Think about it. He JUST got out of a 10 year prison sentence that started when he was 19. At 19, you're barely getting to know the world. He spent the next 10 years in prison where prison became his world. I mean, the guy didn't know anything else. The article says that he hit the girl every time she tried to get up, even though he told her to stay down. He wanted it to end, he just didn't know how to do it.
I'm not saying that the guy deserves to walk, but I think his mental condition should be taken into account. He clearly isn't all there.[/QUOTE]
That's what I've been trying to explain in this thread.
I'm not saying that the guy deserves to walk, but I think his mental condition should be taken into account. He clearly isn't all there.[/QUOTE]
That's what I've been trying to explain in this thread.
confoosious
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bread's done