Should cops be taken down a notch?

Chuplayer

Chuplayer

CAGiversary!
Am I the only one who thinks cops and the judicial system are in need of serious reform?

I saw that Sears story earlier, and cops have been serious douchebags for a long time. They can get away with just about anything. They don't take responsibility for anything. When they do something wrong, it sucks to see the judicial system give them a slap on the wrist.

I think civilians should be able to fight back against cops. For too long cops have been physically abusing people. If you as much as brush shoulders against a cop, you're taken down flat on your face and charged with assaulting an officer. It's especially shitty that assaulting an officer is sooooooo much worse of a crime than assaulting anybody else. Assaulting anybody is wrong, but why should it be so much worse? Cops are just human, after all.

I really hate those predatory sons of bitches who watch speed traps and intersections. I've seen cops indiscriminately taking pictures of cars going through an intersection. If you were the last car, you got a ticket. Never mind if you ran the red or not. Saw it with my own two eyes. The cop even ran out into the middle of the street with a little camera to get the pictures, too. It was disgusting. And sad.

I wanna deck those little cockbags who go on major power trips. A cop on a power trip pisses me off so much. The next town over, cops oftentimes just turn on their flashers and sirens to get people in front of them to pull over and let them pass. Not for an emergency. Just to get the people out of their way because they've got the power! This shit happened to me earlier today. But it was especially bad because I was way ahead of the car he got to pull over. I was going to pull over, but he had already stopped with the lights by the time he got behind me. So I was like WTF? He never signaled me to pull over, so he obviously wasn't in an emergency to get anywhere. The only thing he did was confuse me.

I think there needs to be a big social push to fight against these police state tactics. What does everybody else think?
 
No. Their are bad cops for sure, but you can't let a few bad apples ruin the bunch. I hated cops when I was teen and got into occasional trouble etc. But doing policing research and working with a lot of police agencies over the past few years has shown me that most are good people and really care about making a difference.

They don't have any more power than they need. Some abuse their power, but that doesn't mean any profession wide reforms need to be made in terms of limiting power. But more things can be done to increase accountability and take citizen complaints against officer's more seriously, do more legitimacy training in the academies to teach them how to interact with the public to maintain the public's repsect etc.
 
No, though I hate them. They have a tough enough job as it is. Imagine working retail and all you got were people that complain and had problems, but now also add your life might be at risk and that is basically what a police officer has to deal with. They don't get paid enough for the crap they take. Sure there are a few that are bad and assholes, but for the most part, they're good people just like everybody else.
 
Can't agree with you in general; dmaul has it right.

However, when it comes to traffic enforcement, I strongly would advocate that we change our "guilty until proven innocent" system, as it is un-American. I've been victimized by it and I've seen others be victimized by it. Additionally, police should not be able to do essentially department fundraising by issuing tickets, as this is just a simply corrupting influence. Similarly, quotas for tickets should be taboo and not the norm as they are now.
 
People are, by and large, virtuous. Some aren't, but most are. It's true for nearly every occupation, and it's true for cops.


Seems like you view strict enforcement of traffic laws as being anally strict, but as someone who is typically a pedestrian rather than driver, I wish cops were more strict on traffic violations. Cars are dangerous machines. I can't tell you how many times I've feared for my life when crossing an intersection, having the right of way (white walky guy, no red stop hand) and someone who's turning left (supposed to yield) zooms through, having to slam their brakes because they didn't see me until the last minute, only paying attention to oncoming cars... walking near cars is often terrifying, would be less so if everyone drove like grandmas.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Thought you all might like to read this. Just remember, speeding tickets are only written to get you to drive more safely.;)

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1363276.html[/QUOTE]

Dunno, I wouldn't put too much stock into that study..

"The study, which analyzed data from 1989 to 2003, found the fewest number of tickets issued in North Carolina was in 2000, after nearly a decade of economic growth. Roughly 645,000 tickets were written that year. The highest number of tickets came two years later, when governments were trying to recover from the post-9/11 recession, and issued roughly 768,000."

They're taking a single spike in tickets issued out of a really small sample and somewhat arbitrarily correlating it to economic conditions... seems half-baked to me.
 
I don't really see a need to mess with cops, but the legal system and some crime defs. could certainly use some reworking.

That said, I've never really liked cops, my father was one for awhile, hated all his buddies, don't like cops now, I ain't doing shit leave me the fuck alone.
 
I think it should be every citizens legal right to videotape their encounter with police. It pisses me off to no end when I'm youtubing a police encounter and they tell someone in the crowd "you wanna get that videotape out of my face" or "I better not see this on youtube" in a menacing way. Why can the cops videotape their encounters with citizens with inpunity, but citizens are bullied into shutting off recording devices, letting cops work in a vacuum. Justice may be blind but as an American citizen I want to see my law enforcement tax dollars at work.

It's the only way we're going to get any justice, because the police complaint desk is a total joke.
 
[quote name='camoor']I think it should be every citizens legal right to videotape their encounter with police. It pisses me off to no end when I'm youtubing a police encounter and they tell someone in the crowd "you wanna get that videotape out of my face" or "I better not see this on youtube" in a menacing way. Why can the cops videotape their encounters with citizens with inpunity, but citizens are bullied into shutting off recording devices, letting cops work in a vacuum. Justice may be blind but as an American citizen I want to see my law enforcement tax dollars at work.

It's the only way we're going to get any justice, because the police complaint desk is a total joke.[/quote]
This is the only negative sentiment toward police that I agree with in this thread. They are by-and-large virtuous. But recordings should be permissible. Besides, it's not as if that genie is going back in the bottle anyway.

Support your local police officers.
 
The behavior of many cops the OP laments about are a microcosm of a larger issue within government in general, imo.

But I know several cops, and they are very good people that get paid shit, so I can't agree with the OP principally.

I remember has a little kid in elementry school, about 8 or 9 - one of my biggest first concerns with society and the world was how cops and teachers, the stalwarts of society, are paid so very little while celebrities are paid the most.

Maybe the real answer is - you get what you pay for?
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Maybe the real answer is - you get what you pay for?[/QUOTE]

Do you propose increasing the pay of police, which necessitates the increase of taxes? :lol:

Do you also feel this way about education? ;)

I think the OP's point is just too broad. It doesn't hone in on any specifics, except an allusion to a Sears incident. And that's somehow a cross mark on all police.

That's very similar, in my understanding, for the consideration of all black males as potentially criminal, or represented by other black males' criminal acts. It's painting with a broad brush, and not really bringing any specifics, evidence of an epidemic, or meat to the overall argument.
 
I do advocate higher pay for police and teachers, yes. As long as the requirements/training/responsibility increases as well.

But I'm not 100% convinced that raising income tax is the only way to do that. I am all for other types of taxes like tolls, luxury tax, and non-necessities sales tax.
 
Someone here got falsely accused of stealing from Sears and the cops were dicks about it. There's a thread somewhere.

I agree with dmaul on this one. You've got to have a lot of balls to be a cop and I know for certain I couldn't do that job for even one day.
 
To some degree, they are self-selected... it is a profession that requires very little mental acumen and even less education, but gives them [Cartman voice] AUTHORITY [/Cartman voice].

With overtime, the cops in my hometown easily bring in six figures... not bad for a 2.0-3.0 GPA high school education...
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Thought you all might like to read this. Just remember, speeding tickets are only written to get you to drive more safely.;)

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1363276.html[/quote]

lmao hes all jolly then his motto is "i hate everything." :L

yeh man theres normally like a few safe coppers then theres the few pricks that were bullied as children so take it out on anyone and eveyone under the age of 30 :L
 
[quote name='pricet6']lmao hes all jolly then his motto is "i hate everything." :L

yeh man theres normally like a few safe coppers then theres the few pricks that were bullied as children so take it out on anyone and eveyone under the age of 30 :L[/QUOTE]

I always thought the stereotype was that cops were exjocks and stuff who always bullied people.:)
 
[quote name='BigT']To some degree, they are self-selected... it is a profession that requires very little mental acumen and even less education, but gives them [Cartman voice] AUTHORITY [/Cartman voice].

With overtime, the cops in my hometown easily bring in six figures... not bad for a 2.0-3.0 GPA high school education...[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it would be nice to see more education involved/required. A lot of the agencies I work with in smaller cities pay their officers way to go get degrees. The majority take advantage of it and get a bachelor's and some are working on Master's.

It's hard to do in big cities though as they tend to have larger budget problems, and are very understaffed etc. So hard to give flexible schedules to send people to school, much less to require bachelor's degrees etc.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yeah, it would be nice to see more education involved/required. A lot of the agencies I work with in smaller cities pay their officers way to go get degrees. The majority take advantage of it and get a bachelor's and some are working on Master's.

It's hard to do in big cities though as they tend to have larger budget problems, and are very understaffed etc. So hard to give flexible schedules to send people to school, much less to require bachelor's degrees etc.[/QUOTE]

Minnesota and California both require a minimum of a 2 year degree to become a police officer.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Minnesota and California both require a minimum of a 2 year degree to become a police officer.[/QUOTE]

A good thing for sure. Still a hard sale to the urban departments who are understaffed and can't get enough applicants as is which is the case with some of the large agencies I've worked with.

Point being, I support raising education standards for sure, but there are some practical obstacles in the way in some cities.
 
Stories about the 99% of cops that do their job aren't sexy. Sure, you'll hear about some black kid who is shot by police that isn't posing a threat, and it's tragic that it happens, and there's a good chance a cop is abusing their power the situation (though I'm sure some accidental shootings truly are accidental)... but you're not going to turn on the news and hear a story about the cops who found an old lady's stolen car or return some guys stolen tv and stereo. Maybe you'll hear about a murderer or rapist being caught if it's a high enough profile case (though you'll almost certainly hear about the murder). So no, I don't think cops should be taken down a notch.
 
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[quote name='Hex']Someone had their weed taken away in junior high and has a grudge. :D[/QUOTE]

I don't do drugs.

As for "regular pedestrians," well, I've encountered many cops who made bonehead pedestrian moves. Many almost caused vehicular accidents, and one did cause an accident. They move around like they're invincible and they own everybody, and when they act like complete morons, other people suffer. Instead of owning up to the fact that they nonchalantly walked out into the street, not looking both ways, and writing up a report reflecting that, they say they had zero impact on traffic and give tickets. Total asshole.

And I don't care to argue about cops recovering stereos and saving old ladies. That's their job. That's what they're supposed to do. You don't make a big deal out of what's supposed to get done. That's like the Chris Rock skit when he was complaining how ******s brag about "taking care of their kids." You're supposed to take care of your kids!

My beef is when cops do what they did, er, didn't do at Columbine nearly 10 years ago and scenarios like that. They didn't enter the school while the two murderers had free reign to kill and while kids were putting signs up in windows alerting the cops of wounded kids. At least one wounded kid died due to the police inaction upon seeing a sign there, and that's inexcusable.
 
So you're damning the profession for the bad actions of a few. Grow up.

There are useless people out there in every profession, you can't let a few bad apples ruin your view of the whole bunch.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']Stories about the 99% of cops that do their job aren't sexy. Sure, you'll hear about some black kid who is shot by police that isn't posing a threat, and it's tragic that it happens, and there's a good chance a cop is abusing their power the situation (though I'm sure some accidental shootings truly are accidental)... but you're not going to turn on the news and hear a story about the cops who found an old lady's stolen car or return some guys stolen tv and stereo. Maybe you'll hear about a murderer or rapist being caught if it's a high enough profile case (though you'll almost certainly hear about the murder). So no, I don't think cops should be taken down a notch.[/QUOTE]

what's the maxim? Something like "Dog bites man isn't news; man bites dog is."
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']Stories about the 99% of cops that do their job aren't sexy. Sure, you'll hear about some black kid who is shot by police that isn't posing a threat, and it's tragic that it happens, and there's a good chance a cop is abusing their power the situation (though I'm sure some accidental shootings truly are accidental)... but you're not going to turn on the news and hear a story about the cops who found an old lady's stolen car or return some guys stolen tv and stereo. Maybe you'll hear about a murderer or rapist being caught if it's a high enough profile case (though you'll almost certainly hear about the murder). So no, I don't think cops should be taken down a notch.[/quote]

99% of cops just do their job? Come on man, I know you're not that naive.
 
[quote name='camoor']99% of cops just do their job? Come on man, I know you're not that naive.[/QUOTE]

I was just trying to emphasize that most cops just do their job. The number cops that regularly abuse their power? I have no idea but I doubt it's that high. 10%? Maybe, I wouldn't know, but most do just fine.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']I was just trying to emphasize that most cops just do their job. The number cops that regularly abuse their power? I have no idea but I doubt it's that high. 10%? Maybe, I wouldn't know, but most do just fine.[/quote]

Fair enough, I would tend to agree if we're talking about American police in areas with competent local govt.

Personally I don't think we're going to see widespread improvement until we get those robot cops.
 
[quote name='camoor']Fair enough, I would tend to agree if we're talking about American police in areas with competent local govt.

Personally I don't think we're going to see widespread improvement until we get those robot cops.[/QUOTE]
Yeah where's ED-209?
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']So you're damning the profession for the bad actions of a few. Grow up.

There are useless people out there in every profession, you can't let a few bad apples ruin your view of the whole bunch.[/QUOTE]

If the good apples don't weed out the bad apples, then they're bad apples themselves! One thing that even most of the good apples never do is take responsibility. It's almost always a slap on the wrist at most. Totally shameful.
 
[quote name='Koggit']Seems like you view strict enforcement of traffic laws as being anally strict, but as someone who is typically a pedestrian rather than driver, I wish cops were more strict on traffic violations. Cars are dangerous machines. I can't tell you how many times I've feared for my life when crossing an intersection, having the right of way (white walky guy, no red stop hand) and someone who's turning left (supposed to yield) zooms through, having to slam their brakes because they didn't see me until the last minute, only paying attention to oncoming cars... walking near cars is often terrifying, would be less so if everyone drove like grandmas.[/QUOTE]

The problem is not enforcement against some cretin who doesn't yield to pedestrians. The problem is "guilty until proven innocent" and the corruption of having ticket revenues going to those overseeing how tickets are issued.

"Guilty until proven innocent." I've been there. You can go to court, your word against the officer's. You'll be found guilty. I was. What am I supposed to do, find witnesses from among passing motorists? All the officer has to do is say he saw me do something and I'm guilty. It doesn't matter if I actually did it. It didn't matter for me, that's for sure, since he lied through his teeth.

Although I'm not going to claim I wasn't speeding if I was, I would also opine that speed limits are far too low in many places. There are divided highways near where I live where the speed limit is 30 miles per hour. That's ridiculous. And interstate highways were made to handle speeds up to 80-90 safely, but the limit is often 55.

Instead of this dumb system where we put into place stupid rules, why not put that effort into better driver training? My driver's ed class in high school was a joke. We were only on the road for a few hours. Let people be trained properly and then throw the book at them if they run red lights or fail to yield to pedestrians or do any number of other idiotic things I see on the roads on a daily basis. I'm not afraid; never been in an accident with another car that was my fault, although I've avoided scores of doofuses over the years who surely would have made my day a bad one.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Minnesota and California both require a minimum of a 2 year degree to become a police officer.[/quote]

Incorrect.

"Graduation from a U.S. High School, G.E.D. or equivalent from a U.S. institution, or a California High School Proficiency Examination (CHSPE) certificate. A two- or four-year college degree from an accredited U.S. or foreign institution may be substituted for the high school requirement."

From http://www.lacity.org/PER/recruit1.htm

Seriously, it's a sweet gig for practically no education... they get paid more than us despite our advanced degrees... :cry:
 
[quote name='Chuplayer']I don't do drugs.

As for "regular pedestrians," well, I've encountered many cops who made bonehead pedestrian moves. Many almost caused vehicular accidents, and one did cause an accident. They move around like they're invincible and they own everybody, and when they act like complete morons, other people suffer. Instead of owning up to the fact that they nonchalantly walked out into the street, not looking both ways, and writing up a report reflecting that, they say they had zero impact on traffic and give tickets. Total asshole.

And I don't care to argue about cops recovering stereos and saving old ladies. That's their job. That's what they're supposed to do. You don't make a big deal out of what's supposed to get done. That's like the Chris Rock skit when he was complaining how ******s brag about "taking care of their kids." You're supposed to take care of your kids!

My beef is when cops do what they did, er, didn't do at Columbine nearly 10 years ago and scenarios like that. They didn't enter the school while the two murderers had free reign to kill and while kids were putting signs up in windows alerting the cops of wounded kids. At least one wounded kid died due to the police inaction upon seeing a sign there, and that's inexcusable.[/quote]

Chunplayer let me guess, some petty ass shit happened to you or you read about some screwed up stuff and now you have some type of grudge against cops right?

The problem is not so much the cops that dont take responsibility is the dumbass Americans that refuse to take responsibility for their own actions and blame everyone else. Get pulled over for speeding, its not your fault its the cops for targeting you. Get caught having weed, its the cops fault for enforcing the law. There is most likely 1 legit reason for hating cops for every 30 that is said. And this is coming from a black guy who grew up in the ghetto and was arrested, pulled over, harassed all the time. Americans grow up thinking nothing can be their fault its always someone else to push the blame on.

You know, my father is a cop and I trained to be a one for most of my childhood. I have seen first hand how douche baggy some cops are but most of them are completely fine that go to work and do their job like everyone else. Columbine? Get the hell out of here with that kiddy stuff. Life isnt a damn video game where you can kick open the doors and starting popping off at conveniently placed bad guys.

Let me ask you something, when the army screws something up do you blame the private standing on the front line? No. Because its not his personal decision its the ranking officers. The cops didnt move in because they were not told to move in. Does that suck? Yes, should the chief be fired for not having some type of plan? Yes. But to have "beef" with all cops because of one squad is childish and ignorant.

You have no idea what cops go through. You have no idea what its like to deal with the worst of what society has to offer on a day to day basis. No idea what its like to walk into a room and see a mom with her face blown off and her child covered in blood, or a child shot in the back or to listen on while a girl recounts what happened when she was raped and to know that unless that guy goes on a raping spree you will most likely never catch him.

Then after all that you have to try and forget so that you can part of your own family. Sure cops screw thing up like everyone else and a good handful of them just use their badges as longer dicks but screw you for "beefing" will all cops about some stuff that you read about. I do know this though...I am sure you will forget about your little "beef" if its you dialing 9-1-1 for something.
 
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[quote name='BigT']Incorrect.

"Graduation from a U.S. High School, G.E.D. or equivalent from a U.S. institution, or a California High School Proficiency Examination (CHSPE) certificate. A two- or four-year college degree from an accredited U.S. or foreign institution may be substituted for the high school requirement."

From http://www.lacity.org/PER/recruit1.htm

Seriously, it's a sweet gig for practically no education... they get paid more than us despite our advanced degrees... :cry:
[/quote]

Again, its only a sweet gig if you can handle what happens with the job. With your advance degree could you handle shooting and killing a person? Could you handle seeing first hand a person murdered, raped, tormented? Could you handle knowing that at any given second that you are at work you could be shot and killed and never see it coming?

Every single day someone is getting murdered and there is a cop there to clean up the mess and to hopefully no get shot.

Tough guy shit aside how many people could really handle seeing things like that.
 
[quote name='BigT']Incorrect.

"Graduation from a U.S. High School, G.E.D. or equivalent from a U.S. institution, or a California High School Proficiency Examination (CHSPE) certificate. A two- or four-year college degree from an accredited U.S. or foreign institution may be substituted for the high school requirement."

From http://www.lacity.org/PER/recruit1.htm

Seriously, it's a sweet gig for practically no education... they get paid more than us despite our advanced degrees... :cry:
[/quote]


true, but they are more likely to risk their lives, not really sure what you do, but I am sure it has a much lower mortality rate than police officer.
 
[quote name='pricet6']lmao hes all jolly then his motto is "i hate everything." :L

yeh man theres normally like a few safe coppers then theres the few pricks that were bullied as children so take it out on anyone and eveyone under the age of 30 :L[/quote]
Haven't played Left 4 Dead i take it?
 
I have to wonder though, for small town police, how often does this horrible shit really happen? I live in a pretty small town, i'd bet good money that on average, the patrolmen here spend most of their time writing speeding tickets or other fairly tame stuff. Hell, i've seen three patrol cars with a single pedestrian's car pulled over before around here. How dangerous could one person be that it warrants at least three policemen being there. On top of that, twice this week i've been tailgated by the local police, both times they followed me almost the entire way home, before finally changing lanes and speeding past me.

That's another thing, the police break the traffic laws at least as often as everyone else. Only, they don't apply to them because they're the police.

I've only ever gotten a single traffic ticket, it was for entering a turning lane too soon. I have people riding my ass everyday on the way to school and work, yet i hardly ever see the police stop any of them for speeding.

The police do what they want, because really, who are you going to go to?
 
[quote name='JolietJake']I have to wonder though, for small town police, how often does this horrible shit really happen? I live in a pretty small town, i'd bet good money that on average, the patrolmen here spend most of their time writing speeding tickets or other fairly tame stuff. Hell, i've seen three patrol cars with a single pedestrian's car pulled over before around here. How dangerous could one person be that it warrants at least three policemen being there. On top of that, twice this week i've been tailgated by the local police, both times they followed me almost the entire way home, before finally changing lanes and speeding past me.

That's another thing, the police break the traffic laws at least as often as everyone else. Only, they don't apply to them because they're the police.

I've only ever gotten a single traffic ticket, it was for entering a turning lane too soon. I have people riding my ass everyday on the way to school and work, yet i hardly ever see the police stop any of them for speeding.

The police do what they want, because really, who are you going to go to?[/quote]

I dont think small time cops see all that much. But if it every came up then they would and thats the point. For what cops have to potential deal with they are fine. Most of the time its just some punk ass kids mad because they think they have the right to be bad because they are young

Also about the Cops breaking traffic rules it SOME of it falls under certain guidelines.Not every call requires the lights and speeding 90 down the highway. You still want to get there in a timely matter so you might flip on the lights just to go through a light.

That happens quite often for any call that isnt, someone getting shot in the face at that very second.

All I am saying is that cops like most jobs have their dumbass workers and their hard workers....most of the time you will only hear about the dumbasses messing things up. There is a lot of stuff happening behind the scenes that no one every cares about.

What about all the programs that help keep inner city youth off the of streets? Or out reach programs for troubled people? A lot of that stuff is run through police stations or police are involved in some way because these people are useally in trouble with the law before they can get help.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Again, its only a sweet gig if you can handle what happens with the job. With your advance degree could you handle shooting and killing a person? Could you handle seeing first hand a person murdered, raped, tormented? Could you handle knowing that at any given second that you are at work you could be shot and killed and never see it coming?

Every single day someone is getting murdered and there is a cop there to clean up the mess and to hopefully no get shot.

Tough guy shit aside how many people could really handle seeing things like that.[/quote]

Meh, I see people die all the time... (try working in an ICU for a while)... I've even helped to dissect them in the past while systematically measuring and weighing them organ by organ (the pleasures of med school pathology rotations...). You get used to it. Plus the people who are "murdered, raped, tormented" are eventually dropped off at a morgue or ER for the pathologist or ER physician to deal with...

The shooting and killing thing is a rare occurrence... most cops rarely draw their guns... it's like code blues in a hospital... you have to be prepared for it, but overall they are relatively rare events.

It's true that I don't have bullets to contend with, but lawyers are much more nasty... just miss one evolving STEMI, and there goes your career...

In Irvine, cops can make serious bank (up to 59K for just a police recruit in training), and nothing dangerous ever happens there... my life is more at danger when dealing with the miscreants who are dragged into a county hospital... I should switch careers... I'd get a shiny badge and sweet gun too! ;)
http://www.ci.irvine.ca.us/civica/jobs/displayblobpdf.asp?blobID=7277
 
[quote name='mykevermin']OT, 'sat Dan White in your avatar, Hex?[/quote]

Harvey Milk, but I can understand the disparity between a picture of the victim and the quote, heh.
 
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