Social Security

[quote name='docvinh']Maybe. I still believe it's a small minority who abuse the system as you say they do. That doesn't warrant getting rid of the whole system.[/QUOTE]

Part of the problem is not just abuse it's that you can buy nearly any food item with one. So rather than promote nutrition you end up buying people a whole lot of junk food, TV dinners, soda and candy. The whole program needs to be scrapped and a new one created more like WIC with specific guild lines on purchases and better guidelines on eligibility and time limits on benefits.
 
[quote name='camoor']You shouldn't but they can.

This is the new America, "a nation of law" when it comes to honoring CEO bonuses, but it's no problem to rip up that pension contract if those benefitting are nothing more then the little people.[/QUOTE]

You have to remember politicians will do anything to get reelected. If someone votes to get rid of social security there's no doubt in my mind that they will lose the next election.
 
[quote name='thegreatest']You have to remember politicians will do anything to get reelected. If someone votes to get rid of social security there's no doubt in my mind that they will lose the next election.[/QUOTE]

The dynamic has changed a bit, if a politician makes a kamikaze vote like that they would then be getting a cushy sinecure from business interests who have been gunning for Soc. Sec. for generations.
 
[quote name='Msut77']The dynamic has changed a bit, if a politician makes a kamikaze vote like that they would then be getting a cushy sinecure from business interests who have been gunning for Soc. Sec. for generations.[/QUOTE]

Maybe, maybe not. You can't say all politicians would be willing to lose the elections for a "cushy sinecure" they may or may not be promised.
 
[quote name='thegreatest']Maybe, maybe not. You can't say all politicians would be willing to lose the elections for a "cushy sinecure" they may or may not be promised.[/QUOTE]

I can say without an ounce of doubt that "enough" would be, especially considering the current crop.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']We don't actually have many black people around here, maybe a dozen or so in town. The poor here are white and Hispanic along with all the rest of the population.

Oh and when someone pays with an EBT card you KNOW they are getting assistance.[/QUOTE]
I was being somewhat facetious when I mentioned black people, but either way, I'm guessing that you're not really talking about white people.

[quote name='docvinh']Maybe. I still believe it's a small minority who abuse the system as you say they do. That doesn't warrant getting rid of the whole system.[/QUOTE]
Good thing that there's nothing really to believe because those are the facts and they're on your side. ;)

[quote name='Friend of Sonic']I'd much rather opt out of Social Security and get the money I pay into it put into an IRA account or something. My pension, 401k, savings I set aside, and the Social Security money could secure my future much better than the Social Security fund could ever do.[/QUOTE]
And if SS was "reformed" like Bush wanted, aka privatization, you would've lost more than half your contribution along with whatever you had to begin with.

[quote name='thegreatest']You have to remember politicians will do anything to get reelected. If someone votes to get rid of social security there's no doubt in my mind that they will lose the next election.[/QUOTE]
You haven't been paying attention to politics for the last year, have you...
 
[quote name='dohdough']I was being somewhat facetious when I mentioned black people, but either way, I'm guessing that you're not really talking about white people.
[/QUOTE]

Wow, you're really reaching here. You might want to get that disposition of yours looked at.

But while we're at it lets go through my favorite 3 personal observations (all involving white people btw). There's the woman who bought $80 in chips, pop and candy on EBT and pulled out an iphone in the middle of her purchase, this was way back in 07 about a month after the initial release when they cost $500+. Or the couple who bought a whole cartload of frozen food by EBT and loaded it into their brand new still sporting temporary license plate Jeep Grand Cherokee. Or how about the ones who bought $80 in fresh oysters.

EBT does not have any requirement that the food you purchase is of reasonably price or even remotely nutritious and as I previously mentioned has nothing to do with how you choose to spend the rest of your money.

But good job trying to turn this all into a race thing, I patiently await the inevitable Nazi comparison comments.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']Well actually most of those people are buying stuff with money they get from their jobs. Escalades become significantly more affordable when you're given a couple hundred in free food, reduced rent/utilities and willing to live in a beat to hell apartment in the ghetto. As I said, government assistance is not dependent on wise use of your own money.[/QUOTE]

Gaming the system so that you could afford things you otherwise could not by getting the majority of your grocery costs and some of your living costs covered is pretty savvy.

It's not ethical, but it takes some amount of intellect to pull it off.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']Wow, you're really reaching here. You might want to get that disposition of yours looked at.

But while we're at it lets go through my favorite 3 personal observations (all involving white people btw). There's the woman who bought $80 in chips, pop and candy on EBT and pulled out an iphone in the middle of her purchase, this was way back in 07 about a month after the initial release when they cost $500+. Or the couple who bought a whole cartload of frozen food by EBT and loaded it into their brand new still sporting temporary license plate Jeep Grand Cherokee. Or how about the ones who bought $80 in fresh oysters.

EBT does not have any requirement that the food you purchase is of reasonably price or even remotely nutritious and as I previously mentioned has nothing to do with how you choose to spend the rest of your money.

But good job trying to turn this all into a race thing, I patiently await the inevitable Nazi comparison comments.[/QUOTE]

It's because dohdough is an idiot and knows nothing on the subject, so he has to make it a racial debate.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']Wow, you're really reaching here. You might want to get that disposition of yours looked at.[/quote]
I'm absolutely dying to hear about this "disposition" of mine.:roll:

Just because you take race out of your little anecdotes doesn't mean that the concept of a welfare queen hasn't been racialized. It might've been some shifty white guy defrauding his way into disability benefits 50 years ago, but it certainly isnt the same today. Playing dumb gets you no points with me.

But while we're at it lets go through my favorite 3 personal observations (all involving white people btw). There's the woman who bought $80 in chips, pop and candy on EBT and pulled out an iphone in the middle of her purchase, this was way back in 07 about a month after the initial release when they cost $500+. Or the couple who bought a whole cartload of frozen food by EBT and loaded it into their brand new still sporting temporary license plate Jeep Grand Cherokee. Or how about the ones who bought $80 in fresh oysters.
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Outliers. All of them. Not to mention you know jack shit about the people you're judging.

Maybe the iphone woman and oyster person were splurging that one time for a special event and the Jeep couple needed cheap foods because they both got laid off recently.

I see tons of people using EBT at the local markets and they all purchase reasonably priced fresh foods. How much is my little anecdote worth in comparison to yours?

EBT does not have any requirement that the food you purchase is of reasonably price or even remotely nutritious and as I previously mentioned has nothing to do with how you choose to spend the rest of your money.
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More of your tax dollars are spent literally killing people with bombs and guns than feeding your fellow citizens. For every dollar those people in your anecdote get and spend, there is a 1.5+ economic multiplier effect. Oysters are more healthy than frozen dinners, chips, dip, and carbonated sugar water, so you're point has nothing to do with healthy eating, but some perverted sense of moralism.

The real question is what's it to you if nutrition and necessity isn't your concern?

But good job trying to turn this all into a race thing, I patiently await the inevitable Nazi comparison comments.
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You're going to be more fun than knoell and bob combined. I can already tell.:booty:
 
[quote name='thegreatest']It's because dohdough is an idiot and knows nothing on the subject, so he has to make it a racial debate.[/QUOTE]
Says the person that rationalizes the gutting of welfare with Escalade driving welfare queens and quotes editorials about poor people being poor because they deserve to be poor.:roll:

I guess we should blame all rape victims for being raped and all child abuse victims for being abused. Great reasoning there, kiddo.:applause:

edit: Oh, and you also have no idea about how welfare works.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']Gaming the system so that you could afford things you otherwise could not by getting the majority of your grocery costs and some of your living costs covered is pretty savvy.

It's not ethical, but it takes some amount of intellect to pull it off.[/QUOTE]

Not really, what tends to happen is people prioritize needs, if you've ever seen Maslow's hierarchy?

People need food, shelter and love once these are all obtainable and thought to be secure, (after all the government isn't going to suddenly take away your food stamps would they?) then you start to buy all those other "needs" and a significant amount of people "need" things like fancy cars, Huge TVs, smart phones and with financing options easily available and highly profitable there is a market more than willing to help you obtain these items, even if you cannot realistically afford them.

I wouldn't really call it unethical, more just human nature. If I had a million dollars I'd have a whole heck of a lot more of the things that I "need" right now.
 
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[quote name='dohdough']I'm absolutely dying to hear about this "disposition" of mine.:roll:[/QUOTE]

Well Dr. Zion has this lovely comfortable couch available if you'd like to come take a seat (pat, pat).;)

[quote name='dohdough']
Just because you take race out of your little anecdotes doesn't mean that the concept of a welfare queen hasn't been racialized. It might've been some shifty white guy defrauding his way into disability benefits 50 years ago, but it certainly isnt the same today. Playing dumb gets you no points with me.[/QUOTE]

Really depends on where you live, up here in Washington we have very very few African Americans (I'm guessing this is the ethical group you're referring too? or maybe you're referring to single mothers?) so the idea that they are somehow massively defrauding the system wouldn't be taken seriously by anyone. Generally those going off on a witch hunt like to target poor people, particularly those without children since clearly they must spend all their "free" time doing meth and coke.

[quote name='dohdough']
Outliers. All of them. Not to mention you know jack shit about the people you're judging.[/QUOTE]

Maybe the iphone woman and oyster person were splurging that one time for a special event and the Jeep couple needed cheap foods because they both got laid off recently.
[/QUOTE]

Glad to see your data pool is so large you can easily eliminate outliers, that's actually pretty impressive I don't suppose you'd mind sharing which formula you used?

Then should they not use their own money for such treats? EBT was created with the intention to provide nutritional sustenance not to provide treats.

[quote name='dohdough']
I see tons of people using EBT at the local markets and they all purchase reasonably priced fresh foods. How much is my little anecdote worth in comparison to yours?
[/QUOTE]

Well it's always nice to hear of people using EBT properly, would that I could witness it more often myself.

[quote name='dohdough']
More of your tax dollars are spent literally killing people with bombs and guns than feeding your fellow citizens. For every dollar those people in your anecdote get and spend, there is a 1.5+ economic multiplier effect. Oysters are more healthy than frozen dinners, chips, dip, and carbonated sugar water, so you're point has nothing to do with healthy eating, but some perverted sense of moralism.[/QUOTE]

Raw Oysters are 90% shell and liquids by mass, pretty terrible bang for your nutritional dollar sorry you somehow conveniently overlooked that part to make your point. Also before you ask, yes I'm also against people spending $20 a pound of EBT money on King Salmon, $15 a pound on pine nuts, $15 a pound on exotic cheeses and all sorts of other luxury items.

After all wouldn't you agree it's more important to provide additional nutritional sustenance to as many people as possible rather than focus on providing high end items for a few?

And yes our government is rather good at spending massive piles of money on killing people and financing brutal dictators and sadly we can both do just as much about that as we can about the topic at hand.



[quote name='dohdough']
You're going to be more fun than knoell and bob combined. I can already tell.:booty:[/QUOTE]

Unfortunatley at the current moment I more than likely have less spare time than either of them.:cry:
 
[quote name='dohdough']Says the person that rationalizes the gutting of welfare with Escalade driving welfare queens and quotes editorials about poor people being poor because they deserve to be poor.:roll:

I guess we should blame all rape victims for being raped and all child abuse victims for being abused. Great reasoning there, kiddo.:applause:

edit: Oh, and you also have no idea about how welfare works.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't even respond to that guy.

There are real problems out there, problems that are complicated and difficult to solve, why are people still discussing a necessary and cheap program like welfare.

This is easy mode, if America can't even get this right we're going to be screwed when we square off against bowser.
 
Funny how people get so stirred up over a program that at it's basis is set to help the less fortunate, yet if anyone tries to bring attention to the need to look at how Corporations are gouging our government for products we can easily purchase at discounts at our local department store

If you anyone has worked in government setting, more significantly a office funding by the department of Defense, costs are never really debated. That type of action is fraud too.
 
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