Socialist America Sinking

Capitalizt

Capitalizt

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Pat Buchanan farking nails it here..

Socialist America Sinking
Posted: July 16, 2009
8:41 pm Eastern
After half a century of fighting encroachments upon freedom in America, journalist Garet Garrett published "The People's Pottage." A year later, in 1954, he died. "The People's Pottage" opens thus:

"There are those who still think they are holding the pass against a revolution that may be coming up the road. But they are gazing in the wrong direction. The revolution is behind them. It went by in the Night of Depression, singing songs to freedom."

Garrett wrote of a revolution within the form. While outwardly America appeared the same, a revolution within had taken place that was now irreversible. One need only glance at where we were before the New Deal, where we are and where we are headed to see how far we are off the course the Founding Fathers set for our republic.

Taxes drove the American Revolution, for we were a taxaphobic, liberty-loving people. That government is best that governs least is an Americanism. When "Silent Cal" Coolidge went home in 1929, the U.S. government was spending 3 percent of gross domestic product.

And today? Obama's first budget will consume 28 percent of the entire GDP; state and local governments another 15 percent. While there is some overlap, in 2009, government will consume 40 percent of GDP, approaching the peak of World War II.

The deficit for 2009 is $1.8 trillion, 13 percent of the whole economy. Obama is pushing a cap-and-trade bill to cut carbon emissions that will impose huge costs on energy production, spike consumer prices and drive production offshore to China, which is opting out of Kyoto II. The Chinese are not fools.

Obama plans to repeal the Bush tax cuts and take the income tax rate to near 40 percent. Combined state and local income tax rates can run to 10 percent. For the self-employed, payroll taxes add up to 15.2 percent on the first $106,800 for all wages of all workers. Medicare takes 2.9 percent of all wages above that. Then there are the state sales taxes that can run to 8 percent, property taxes, gas taxes, excise taxes and "sin taxes" on booze, cigarettes and, soon, hot dogs and soft drinks.

Comes now national health insurance from Nancy Pelosi's House. A surtax that runs to 5.4 percent of all earnings of the top 1 percent of Americans, who already pay 40 percent of all federal income taxes, has been sent to the Senate. Included also is an 8 percent tax on the entire payroll of small businesses that fail to provide health insurance for employees.

Other ideas on the table include taxing the health benefits that businesses provide their employees.

The D.C.-based Tax Foundation says New Yorkers could face a combined income tax rate of near 60 percent.

In the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson called George III a tyrant for having "erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people and eat out their substance."

What did George III do with his Stamp Act, Townshend Acts or tea tax to compare with what is being done to this generation of Americans by their own government?

While the hardest-working and most productive are bled, a third of all wage-earners pay no U.S. income tax, and Obama plans to free almost half of all wage-earners of all income taxes. Yet, tens of millions get Medicaid, rent supplements, free education, food stamps, welfare and an annual check from Uncle Sam called an Earned Income Tax Credit, though they never paid a nickel in income taxes.

Oh, yes. Obama also promises everybody a college education.

Coming to America to feast on this cornucopia of freebies is the world. One million to 2 million immigrants, legal and illegal, arrive every year. They come with fewer skills and less education than Americans, and consume more tax dollars than they contribute by three to one.

Wise Latina women have more babies north of the border than they do in Mexico and twice as many here as American women.

As almost all immigrants are now Third World people of color, they qualify for ethnic preferences in hiring and promotions and admissions to college over the children of Americans.

All of this would have astounded and appalled the Founding Fathers, who after all, created America – as they declared loud and clear in the Constitution – "for ourselves and our posterity."

China saves, invests and grows at 8 percent. America, awash in debt, has a shrinking economy, a huge trade deficit, a gutted industrial base, an unemployment rate surging toward 10 percent and a money supply that's swollen to double its size in a year. The 20th century may have been the American Century. The 21st shows another pattern.

"The United States is declining as a nation and a world power with mostly sighs and shrugs to mark this seismic event," writes Les Gelb, president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, in CFR's Foreign Affairs magazine. "Astonishingly, some people do not appear to realize that the situation is all that serious."

Even the establishment is starting to get the message.
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The little angry face is just so cute.

I do so love listening to people bitch because they realize shit actually has to be paid for.
 
[quote name='Capitalizt']Pat Buchanan farking nails it here..

Socialist America Sinking
Posted: July 16, 2009
8:41 pm Eastern[/QUOTE]

Eh, fuck Pat Buchanan and his hate for immigrants. My parents were immigrants and work hard for what they have. America was pretty much founded by immigrants so I don't know what the fuck he's complaining about. I guess I'm sorry the white man is getting screwed or something.
 
The subtle racism in this whole thing just lends itself to white conservative propaganda.

"Wise latina" and "Third World people of color" are just conservative buzzwords to get the base up and energized.

The Founding Fathers created a country for rich white landowning males. That's not what this country is now. Get over it.
 
lol @ reactions

I agree ole Pat is a bit of a xenophobe..but most of his points are good. I personally have no problem with 100% legal immigration with no limits..but we need to abolish the welfare state first. ;)
 
[quote name='Msut77']The little angry face is just so cute.

I do so love listening to people bitch because they realize shit actually has to be paid for.[/QUOTE]
Has to be paid for? You really think all of your tax dollars go to anything useful?
 
[quote name='depascal22']
The Founding Fathers created a country for rich white landowning males. That's not what this country is now. Get over it.[/QUOTE]

So if the "rich white landowning males" decide to up and move their homes & businesses out of the country due to overtaxation, who exactly is going to be paying all the taxes? Rich people are footing most of the tax bill now. If they leave, so will the government's ability to provide any of the socialist-esque programs. I would appreciate that class if I were you instead of looking down upon it :)
 
Good article.

And I like how y'all are getting pissy because he trash talked some immigrants. Sure, not really necessary, but also not an excuse to ignore the rest of his points.
 
[quote name='Liquid 2']Good article.

And I like how y'all are getting pissy because he trash talked some immigrants. Sure, not really necessary, but also not an excuse to ignore the rest of his points.[/QUOTE]

Insulting immigrants is not a good way to get your point across. Why would I want to listen to someone who thinks like that?
 
[quote name='Ruined']So if the "rich white landowning males" decide to up and move their homes & businesses out of the country due to overtaxation, who exactly is going to be paying all the taxes? Rich people are footing most of the tax bill now. If they leave, so will the government's ability to provide any of the socialist-esque programs.[/QUOTE]

You didn't by any chance write this, did you?

atlas_shrugged_cover.jpg
 
[quote name='Ruined']So if the "rich white landowning males" decide to up and move their homes & businesses out of the country due to overtaxation, who exactly is going to be paying all the taxes? Rich people are footing most of the tax bill now. If they leave, so will the government's ability to provide any of the socialist-esque programs. I would appreciate that class if I were you instead of looking down upon it :)[/QUOTE]

Then fucking leave. Nobody is forcing you to stay here and pay taxes. Either start the revolution or get out.

The last thing I'm gonna do is feel sorry or appreciate rich people. Why don't you guys appreciate the struggle of a single mother with three kids? To you, they're just welfare babies sucking on the tit of America. Where's the appreciation or compassion for them? Appreciate the rich? fuck that.

Liquid -- Good article? He basically said this a white nation and that immigrants are ruining this nation. When I was growing up, I was taught that immigrants were the lifeblood of this nation. I guess that only applies to German, English, Scandanavian, and other white European immigrants. The rest of the "Third World people of color" can go fuck themselves.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Then fucking leave. Nobody is forcing you to stay here and pay taxes. Either start the revolution or get out.

The last thing I'm gonna do is feel sorry or appreciate rich people. Why don't you guys appreciate the struggle of a single mother with three kids? To you, they're just welfare babies sucking on the tit of America. Where's the appreciation or compassion for them? Appreciate the rich? fuck that.[/QUOTE]

I can be compassionate, but I can also question why the mother had three kids if she could not financially support them.

Like it or not, the rich finance the bulk of the programs for the poor. Without the rich, the poor will lose their services. There is no need to feel sorry for the rich, but as a class they should be appreciated for the tax & charity money they contribute - which in turn trickles down into programs & charities for the poor.
 
depascal, you don't need to appreciate the rich. Just stop pissing on them every chance you get..and stop telling your favorite politician to assrape them with more taxes whenever possible. Those evil rich bastards are the ones employing 100 million Americans after all. They are doing far more good with their wealth than the most bleeding heart politician could hope to achieve in 10 lifetimes.
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']Has to be paid for? You really think all of your tax dollars go to anything useful?[/QUOTE]

I dunno, I went to a public school and got a decent education, I mean, it definitely wasn't the best, but probably better then me just trying to teach myself the entire time. When I went to college, I had Pell grants which allowed me to attend college, and when I went to grad school for my masters, I had subsidized loans. I'm now entering a PhD program, so I have to say that the government has helped me out quite a bit actually, hopefully I can be "useful" in the future.:)
 
[quote name='docvinh']I dunno, I went to a public school and got a decent education, I mean, it definitely wasn't the best, but probably better then me just trying to teach myself the entire time. When I went to college, I had Pell grants which allowed me to attend college, and when I went to grad school for my masters, I had subsidized loans. I'm now entering a PhD program, so I have to say that the government has helped me out quite a bit actually, hopefully I can be "useful" in the future.:)[/QUOTE]

So what have taxpayers bought? What's your major?
 
You do realize you're defending people that do everything they can to spend money overseas right? Swiss bank accounts, off shore banks, Mercedes Benz, shopping trips in London, Paris, and Milan, art from Europe, etc. That and all the companies they own, run, or influence are actively shipping jobs OUT of the country.

That and they actually pay people just to get out of as much taxes as possible. You really want to defend these people and say this the shining example of America at it's finest.

How much money do you think they would contribute if they couldn't write it off anymore? Also, how much of that money actually goes to people that need it and not a shell corporation run by Cousin Vinny?

I'm not saying that we can't have the rich. We need the rich. I'm just saying they could be doing more to ensure that America in the future will be prosperous instead of just their family. I'm saying that rich white landowner shoudn't be the only criteria for becoming powerful in this country. It's not now but I'm sure there are plenty of Pat Roberstons out there itching for a return of white rule.
 
[quote name='Capitalizt']So what have taxpayers bought? What's your major?[/QUOTE]

Educational Psychology. Hopefully I can help develop better standardized tests and procedures. Think you got your money's worth?:)
 
[quote name='docvinh']Educational Psychology. Hopefully I can help develop better standardized tests and procedures. Think you got your money's worth?:)[/QUOTE]

Maybe you'll get a great job and bitch about how the government is taking all your money now.
 
pascal, in a competitive world companies will naturally go where the cost are lowest.. Part of that is labor cost and it will be always hard for America to compete with cheap labor from overseas..but another part of the equation (and the only part we have control over) is the tax and regulatory system in America..the cost of doing business here. Abolishing the corporate and capital gains taxes would be a HUGE step in the right direction in preventing capital from flowing overseas. It would make it much more attractive to keep jobs on shore..but of course cutting those tax rates disproportionately benefit the "rich" (who create the f*cking jobs you want by the way), so we can't have that.
 
You do realize you're defending people that do everything they can to spend money overseas right?
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pascal, people only take money overseas because they have an incentive to do so. They don't do it because hate America. The fact is we live in in a competitive world and companies will naturally go where the costs are lowest.. Part of that equation is labor costs, and it will be always hard for America to compete with cheap labor from overseas..but another part is the tax and regulatory system in America.. This is the only thing we do have control over...the cost of doing business here. Abolishing the corporate and capital gains taxes (which are some of the highest in the developed world BTW) would be a HUGE step in the right direction in preventing capital from flowing overseas. It would make it much more attractive for companies to keep jobs on shore..and even for foreign companies to set up shop here rather than export to us...but of course cutting those rates would disproportionately benefit the "rich" (who create all the frakkin jobs you want by the way), so we can't have that.
 
[quote name='depascal22']You do realize you're defending people that do everything they can to spend money overseas right? Swiss bank accounts, off shore banks, Mercedes Benz, shopping trips in London, Paris, and Milan, art from Europe, etc. That and all the companies they own, run, or influence are actively shipping jobs OUT of the country.

That and they actually pay people just to get out of as much taxes as possible. You really want to defend these people and say this the shining example of America at it's finest.

How much money do you think they would contribute if they couldn't write it off anymore? Also, how much of that money actually goes to people that need it and not a shell corporation run by Cousin Vinny?

I'm not saying that we can't have the rich. We need the rich. I'm just saying they could be doing more to ensure that America in the future will be prosperous instead of just their family. I'm saying that rich white landowner shoudn't be the only criteria for becoming powerful in this country. It's not now but I'm sure there are plenty of Pat Roberstons out there itching for a return of white rule.[/QUOTE]

Regardless of how you want to argue how the rich don't pay taxes, this is reality from the federal government (calendar year 2001):
tax.jpg


Without the rich, the programs for the poor would crumble and cease to exist - or at best they would be severly castrated. And, the huge amount of money to finance that alone should be enough of a mandatory contribution of their wealth. Many rich people also donate to charities, but not all do. That is where freedom steps in, freedom to spend the money you earned as you wish (to a point). That is why I don't think even more taxes and charges should be lumped upon them - they are clearly already doing more than their fair share and giving a massive percentage of the money they earn to the gov't.
 
Hey Ruined, what percentage of the total income did that top 5, 10, and 50% earn?

And raise your hand if you think those top 10% aren't cheating on their taxes. Anyone that stupid?

Socialist America is sinking. A socialist America that just had one of the most aggressively pro-market governments anywhere on the planet ever for almost a decade is going downhill because of socialist America. I can't even imagine how you guys can say it with a straight face.
 
We could abolish those taxes but then there will be another excuse why this country can't compete. They'll say that payroll, Social Security, and Medicare taxes are too much and they'll just continue to use the Chinese, Indians, and Mexicans.

The problem with letting corporations just do whatever is the cheapest is that it's almost always harmful to the country and the environment.

Hey, it's really cheap to just dump this toxic waste in the Chesapeake Bay. Did you guys want to get crab to eat? Well, that's too bad. Big business, bitches!

You guys seem to forget that many of these anti-big business laws are relatively modern. There was a time when big business and rich people could do whatever the hell they wanted and they did.

Lost your arm working for me? Too bad. You're fired. Good luck finding another job stumpy.

Your black friend is a really good welder? fuck him. I only hire whites here.

Can't afford to pay your rent? Let me take one of your kids to work in the mill until he's 16.

You want a day off? You're fired.

Don't like working from sunup to sundown? You're fired.

You're too old to work anymore? You're fired and you've got zero pension or benefits to tide you over.

This is how big business operates with zero regulation. Business is all about the allmighty dollar and the rest of us can go fuck ourselves.

But we should all appreciate them and get on our knees to suck capitalism's cock because it provides us so many jobs.
 
[quote name='Capitalizt']pascal, people only take money overseas because they have an incentive to do so. They don't do it because hate America.[/quote]
No. They do it because America doesn't enter into the equation at all. Capital has zero allegiance to America. Don't pretend it does. They do it because they don't give a damn how well America does. When we decline, they'll just leave. We're hosts and they're ... what would you call them?
but another part is the tax and regulatory system in America.. This is the only thing we do have control over...the cost of doing business here.
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So to defeat the race to the bottom, we should be the bottom. I got that right?
Abolishing the corporate and capital gains taxes (which are some of the highest in the developed world BTW) would be a HUGE step in the right direction in preventing capital from flowing overseas.
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How's Ireland doing now?

Wanna see something fantastic? The Economist is suggest that Ireland raise taxes to save itself from its crash! You know, the crash that can't happen because their taxes are virtually nothing.
http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?story_id=13331143&CFID=69172060&CFTOKEN=49438350

Low taxes will save us all!
CEU155.gif


But at least it will save jobs right?
Unemployment has jumped from 5% to 10.4%, a faster rise even than in America.
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lol. Earth to free marketeers. You're going to give yourselves strokes working so hard to close your eyes.
A leading Irish economist has called on Dublin to threaten withdrawal from the euro unless Europe's big powers do more to rescue Ireland's economy.
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Save us socialists!
It would make it much more attractive for companies to keep jobs on shore..and even for foreign companies to set up shop here rather than export to us...but of course cutting those rates would disproportionately benefit the "rich" (who create all the frakkin jobs you want by the way), so we can't have that.
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Cause no one would replace the current batch at the top. No sireee.

That's why there is no capital left in Europe. None at all. Right?
 
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[quote name='Capitalizt']but most of his points are good.[/QUOTE]

Not really. That would be you know the point.

FM:
Has to be paid for?
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I didn't stutter.

You really think all of your tax dollars go to anything useful?
Click to expand...

A lot of my tax dollars do. The problem is that people do not want to pay for anything and there are entire movements dedicated to whining about it.

The peasant mentality in action.
 
speed, the whole world is in a race to the bottom of the socialist abyss now.. I think all we can do to buy time is to be slightly less anti-business than we are now. You need to step back and look at the big picture. The corporate sector is the productive sector. The government sector is not...It is a leech, and as the article points out, it is currently covering 40% of America's body and growing fast. Most Americans loathe the profit-seeking businessman. What about the government sector? Do people hate the leech? No...They demand it be fed larger and larger amounts of blood every year and have no problem with it's seemingly endless parasitic growth.. All of this hate for free markets, entrepreneurs, and the good old fashioned profit-motive..and the demand for greater sacrifices every year in the name of the "public welfare" is very bad news. People around the world are completely indifferent to the smothering effect government is having on the few industries still struggling to breathe. We are strangling the goose that laid the golden egg and nobody seems to care.


Hey, it's really cheap to just dump this toxic waste in the Chesapeake Bay. Did you guys want to get crab to eat? Well, that's too bad. Big business, bitches!
Lost your arm working for me? Too bad. You're fired. Good luck finding another job stumpy.
Your black friend is a really good welder? fuck him. I only hire whites here.
Can't afford to pay your rent? Let me take one of your kids to work in the mill until he's 16.
You want a day off? You're fired.
Don't like working from sunup to sundown? You're fired.
You're too old to work anymore? You're fired and you've got zero pension or benefits to tide you over.
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lololol, you're catching on. There is hope for you yet pascal.
 
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[quote name='Capitalizt']We are strangling the goose that laid the golden egg and nobody seems to care. [/QUOTE]

That golden egg is only attainable by a handful of Americans. The rest of us will work our lives to build up corporate America and get a pittance in return.
 
It is hilarious to see a bunch of IT guys (when they work at all) and assorted wage slaves saying a slight increase in the top marginal tax rates are the first steps to the gulag.

None of the randroids who post here are captains of industry to say the least.
 
[quote name='Capitalizt']The corporate sector is the productive sector.[/quote]
You mean the one scouring the earth to find the government most willing to scorch its earth, screw its people, and destroy its culture? They do business with the nastiest people in the world. The most "profitable" places are the most anti-freedom, oppressive shitholes on Earth. Niger. China. On and on.

But is that a variable in the equation? Tell me, is it?

The government sector is not...It is a leech, and as the article points out, it is currently covering 40% of America's body and growing fast.
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Right, but it's disproportionately going to defense. It's a red herring argument.

Most Americans loathe the profit-seeking businessman..the man who seeks reward through production. At best, they are indifferent to him. What about the government sector? Do people hate the leech? No...They demand it be fed larger and larger amounts of blood every year and have no problem with it's parasitic growth.. All of this hate for free markets, entrepreneurs, and the good old fashioned profit-motiveis very bad news. We are strangling the goose that laid the golden egg and nobody seems to care.
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Then why haven't they all left yet? I mean, it's awful right? Why are they still here? Why haven't they relocated to Burma yet?
 
Give it time speed.. With federal + state taxes combined (not including sales or property taxes), the top marginal rate in New York will be 60% once the new "surtax" on the top 1% is made law. Combine that with the 8% "fee" to be imposed on all employers that don't insure all of their employees and the results should be fairly predictable. The 2010s are going to be an interesting decade my man. I suggest you pay down debt, learn to grow your own food, and buckle your seatbelt. We are reaching the climax of Ms. Rand's novel. ;)
 
We should all be growing our own food anyway. It's that good ole American independence that you conservatives are always talking about.
 
[quote name='Capitalizt']Give it time speed.. The top marginal rate in New York will be 60% once the new "surtax" on the top 1% is made law. Combine that with the new 8% "fee" on all employers that don't pay for health insurance are going to be forced to pay and the results should be fairly predictable. The 2010s are going to be an interesting decade. I suggest you pay down debt, learn to grow your own food, and buckle your seatbelt. We are reaching the climax of Ms. Rand's novel. ;)[/QUOTE]
I keep waiting for you guys to get the fuck out. You never do. I wonder why that is. I think it's because ultimately you just want everyone else to worship at the alter of money and we just aren't going to. When we don't you just whine, but you aren't going anywhere because no matter the tax rate, this is the best place in the world to live by orders of magnitude.
 
[quote name='speedracer']I keep waiting for you guys to get the fuck out. You never do. I wonder why that is. I think it's because ultimately you just want everyone else to worship at the alter of money and we just aren't going to.[/QUOTE]

It's because they realize most of the world has higher tax rates or lower paying jobs.
 
[quote name='depascal22']It's because they realize most of the world has higher tax rates or lower paying jobs.[/QUOTE]

Yes indeed..but that is changing mighty fast. :)

And speed, nobody wants you to worship at the altar of money. I just want you to realize where you are headed before the train goes off the cliff. With any hope we can hit the brakes in time.

and mushroomboy..sorry *cough* msut...still not contributing any substantive comments...to any thread...anywhere.. I see nothing has changed, lol.
 
I never understood the people enthralled by the works of Ayn Rand.

She was a horrid person, a poor writer and her ideal "real man" was a child murderer.
 
[quote name='depascal22']It's because they realize most of the world has higher tax rates or lower paying jobs.[/QUOTE]
But how can that be?!?! Why, they've already gone off the cliff 83 times then!
[quote name='Capitalizt'] I just want you to realize where you are headed before the train goes off the cliff. With any hope we can hit the brakes in time.[/QUOTE]
I'm old enough to have heard this every single time we stop growing at better than 2%. Your shit is weak. You got your way in Ireland and they're a fucking smoldering crater in the ground. I'm sure there's still some sad souls in Timor that haven't heard the gospel of Capitalism. Ya'll should move on from this socialist hellhole and go forth and multiply somewhere else.
[quote name='Msut77']I never understood the people enthralled by the works of Ayn Rand.

She was a horrid person, a poor writer and her ideal "real man" was a child murderer.[/QUOTE]
A friend of mine described her as a perfect trap for the modern idiot to feel a part of something bigger than themselves.
 
speed, ironically the only country even remotely headed "my way" today is China.. They are liberalizing trade and removing barriers to business, though they still have a long way to go. I have no idea what you are talking about in Ireland. Who the hell cares about Ireland? I googled them and they have the same sh!t we have here and every European country..a progressive tax rate with a top rate of 41%, a 22% capital gains tax, 12% corporate tax, fiat money system, government welfare, the government actually RAISING taxes in the middle of a recession to fund programs, yadda yadda yadda. It's the status quo crap we have in America and everywhere else and they are in the same slump as everyone else..big surprise. Your methods aren't working too hot are they my friend? Got any bright ideas to get us out of this slump? My prescription is to do the opposite of what we've been doing, which means less government interference but since you seem to disagree with literally everything I say, I'm assuming your solution is (lol) more government intervention? A little more poison to cure the disease eh?
rofflebot.
 
So you would rather live in an oppressive communist country that is pro-business? I guess anything for a buck, huh? Besides, we all know communism is so much better than socialism.
 
[quote name='Msut77']It is hilarious to see a bunch of IT guys (when they work at all) and assorted wage slaves saying a slight increase in the top marginal tax rates are the first steps to the gulag.

None of the randroids who post here are captains of industry to say the least.[/QUOTE]

Hamsters love wheels.
 
I said they have a long way to go. ;) Oppressive? Politically, yes... Economically, no...they are actually more free than America in many ways today. That is why the living standards of the average citizen are rising so rapidly...and it's why they are building a new city the size of Philadelphia each month with record numbers of people entering the workforce, while our real estate market is utter shit, and we have an employment rate going in the opposite direction.
 
Anyone else notice that cap uses "free" in a different way than a normal person might?

The freedom to pollute, the freedom to adulterate and poison food, the freedom to drive a child laborer away who was injured with no compensation...

This is the freedom cap wants for all of us ladies and gentlmen.
 
No sir. The freedom to be left alone..the freedom from theft and violence are the only freedoms I'm after, and they are the only freedoms any human being is entitled to.

Pollution, poison, slavery..I would consider all of those violations of the two universal laws of any libertarian society. 1. Respect people. 2. Respect their property rights.
 
[quote name='Capitalizt']No sir.[/quote]

That is absolutely what you were saying, that is the reality. Even though you would rather ignore facts or are far too programmed to recognize them.

The freedom to be left alone..
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You have the freedom now to move to say Somalia.

Take advantage of it.
 
[quote name='docvinh']I dunno, I went to a public school and got a decent education, I mean, it definitely wasn't the best, but probably better then me just trying to teach myself the entire time. When I went to college, I had Pell grants which allowed me to attend college, and when I went to grad school for my masters, I had subsidized loans. I'm now entering a PhD program, so I have to say that the government has helped me out quite a bit actually, hopefully I can be "useful" in the future.:)[/QUOTE]
What I mean was federal taxes, although I didn't make that clear. Your federal tax dollars really do nothing, and yet they take up a large amount of your income.
 
[quote name='Msut77']
A lot of my tax dollars do. The problem is that people do not want to pay for anything and there are entire movements dedicated to whining about it.

The peasant mentality in action.[/QUOTE]
Actually all your federal tax dollars do is pay of interest on the national debt to the Federal Reserve, China, and other holders of government debt.
 
Pell grants are from the federal government, fullmetal.

And cap, China is building a Philadelphia each month but at what cost to the enviroment. The air is filthy, their rivers are choked, and their farm land is soon to be unsustainable. How is that a good thing just because people are making money?

Business never gives a damn about the common man or the environment but we're supposed to bend over backwards to make this a better place for big business? Please. I'll grow my own food and switch over to solar and wind power as soon as I buy a house. Real independence is what made this nation great not sucking on businesses tit so we can make more money.
 
[quote name='depascal22']
Business never gives a damn about the common man or the environment but we're supposed to bend over backwards to make this a better place for big business? Please. I'll grow my own food and switch over to solar and wind power as soon as I buy a house. Real independence is what made this nation great not sucking on businesses tit so we can make more money.[/QUOTE]

Word, notice how they don't teach basic agriculture and/or electronics (for utilizing natural energy) in grade school. We have been programmed for years to be worker bees and consumers. Real capitalism would be setting up a system that supports homegrown business and doesn't suffocate it like the current setup. Universal health care is the government saying "look, we are complete pawns of multinational corporations, at least let our people go to the doctor."
 
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