Sony claims Xbox 360 requires HD DVD, etc., thus costs $700

I think Daroga has the right idea here. Here's the only problem I see,

Who's going to "kick Sony in the crotch"

Nintendo would make sense, other than they aren't in position to do that. They're whole business plan is really to be self sufficient. They have a few big games come out a year, and a cool gimick that will likely cost a fortune to fully implement in your home, though each part is affordable (like connectivity, to play FFCC from scratch for you and 4 friends would have cost you a small fortune, so not many people got the experience).

MS is much more prepared to be that company. Big names, games coming out all the time, more reasonably priced than the PS3. However, even if that happens in the States, in Japan, will anyone buy an Xbox 360, even if it's a vastly superior option (not saying it is)? History may say no.

Sony was there to kick Nintendo when they they got full of themselves. Not sure there is a great candidate to do that this time.
 
I'm no fanboy of any console, but I think that Sony is looking at a selling a console that will have a longer life cycle than the other two. Games have been getting bigger and better for a long time. Who would of thought that they would fill up a dvd-5. Now some games are pushing the dvd-9. I think Sony is smart for looking to the future of gaming with larger capacities. But I'm not a fool I know they want Blu-ray to be the winner in the format war and this puts them in a good position to do that. The big if is will people be willing to pay the high dollar tag.
I would also like to point out that I think we all know in a few years microsoft will bring out another xbox and I'm willing to bet it will have a HD-DVD drive built in for gaming. I admit that is the only reason I did not buy the 360. Without the HD-dvd drive that microsoft had talked about, to me this is not true next generation.
Let the criticism begin.
 
[quote name='millrat1030']I'm no fanboy of any console, but I think that Sony is looking at a selling a console that will have a longer life cycle than the other two. Games have been getting bigger and better for a long time. Who would of thought that they would fill up a dvd-5. Now some games are pushing the dvd-9. I think Sony is smart for looking to the future of gaming with larger capacities. But I'm not a fool I know they want Blu-ray to be the winner in the format war and this puts them in a good position to do that. The big if is will people be willing to pay the high dollar tag.
I would also like to point out that I think we all know in a few years microsoft will bring out another xbox and I'm willing to bet it will have a HD-DVD drive built in for gaming. I admit that is the only reason I did not buy the 360. Without the HD-dvd drive that microsoft had talked about, to me this is not true next generation.
Let the criticism begin.[/quote]
The majority of games will do fine on a DVD-9 and so what if some don't fit? Is having a few 2 DVD games really that big of a fucking deal? It's not like games will suddenly explode in size and take 4 DVDs; if it doesn't fit on 1 it'll fit on 2 and I wouldn't pay $200 more just so the game fits on 1 disc.

Sony only put blu-ray on the system so that they could push their format and everybody knows it. Any talk of needing all this room for games is bullshit.
 
Millrat,

I'll have to disagree with you. I don't really think you need to upgrade yet. If companies wanted to push their older systems to the limit, I bet we could still get some great games from this generation (or last).

I don't think companies want to keep generations longer than about 5 years. Even if there is enough room, some other part of the PS3 will be outdated by then and need to be updated (and add-ons to consoles just don't sell).
 
I agree that most games will fit on a DVD-9 now, but looking to the future I just believe with the capabilities of both the 360 and PS3 they'll need more space. And I for one don't like changing out DVD's on games that require more than one disc. Why do I have a wireless controller if I'm getting up to swap disc? Yes I'm lazy I know.
I'm sure that both systems hardware will be out of date in a few years, but before they come out with Xbox 720 or PS4 the size of games will need more than 9 gigs. Look at Take 5's Liar, it is something like 3 gigs per level. Also look at Oblivion, a beautiful and very in depth game which pushed closed to the 9 gig berrier.

Spazx, yes sony wants you to have Blu-ray so they can cash in that's a FACT. But you have to also see the future of gameing and great games are taking more and more disc space.
 
I think we had this topic before but in another name.

anyways who know who that worked at SEGA but is now at Microsoft was adverting the 360 HD-DVD add on. This Add on is not really needed and is thus dumb.

The X-BOX had great graphics and the GCN could have had better so point end senario this is dumb.

Sony is lying and the thing is hey they screwed over the honest business man more then once. It's almost liuke Apple Sueing Nintendo that there new Gameboy SP looks like an Ipod.....at the time.
 
I'm surprised Sony didn't try to claim that buying a PS2 was required for 360 owners, because the PS3 plays PS2 games straight out of the box.

This was just a very poor attempt to try and make out the PS3 is a good deal, the thing is as Cheapy and Wombat point out on this weeks CAGcast if Sony had done it properly they might have had a good point.

Instead they ended up with a steaming pile of PR garbage that no-one with half a brain would believe.
 
[quote name='benjamouth']I'm surprised Sony didn't try to claim that buying a PS2 was required for 360 owners, because the PS3 plays PS2 games straight out of the box.

[/QUOTE]

Now thats funny. Good thought.
 
What do you expect? Each of these companies is going to stretch the truth when comparing themselves to others.

The reality tho for me is the PS3 isn't really more expensive than the 360 for what you get. I mean it's a $100 more and you get Blu Ray, hdmi, internet access, ...

And it looks like you'll be able to play online without paying $50/yr which over 5 years adds up.
 
[quote name='SpazX']No dammit, you don't understand.

There's the Wii, then you have to buy another game, another remote and nunchuck, a virtual console controller, the component cable, 5000 wii points, another virtual console contoller, another game, and a bag to carry it all in.

That's $550 without tax! I might as well just pay the extra $50 and get a premium PS3![/quote]

Bump for a great quote.
 
Here's a spanner in the works for you PS3 fans.

Stay away from Europe and Oceania/Australasia. We don't have backward compatability because it would've hit the $1000USD mark. Currently, It's about $850

You Stateside guys got it good. Dx

This was once a Sony Company Mantra, that whoever used their gaming system should just be able to swap out their old console for a new one. But thanks to Sony screwing EU over, we can't do that.

Why? For a non-proprietory format that I saw ONE disc for in a Blockbuster that was selling PS3s.

Sony has fucked us over. That's why I'm staying with my PS2, that's why I've got a Wii, and that's why I've got a DS. Ninty got it /right/ this time.
 
[quote name='kPod']Here's a spanner in the works for you PS3 fans.

Stay away from Europe and Oceania/Australasia. We don't have backward compatability because it would've hit the $1000USD mark. Currently, It's about $850

You Stateside guys got it good. Dx

This was once a Sony Company Mantra, that whoever used their gaming system should just be able to swap out their old console for a new one. But thanks to Sony screwing EU over, we can't do that.

Why? For a non-proprietory format that I saw ONE disc for in a Blockbuster that was selling PS3s.

Sony has fucked us over. That's why I'm staying with my PS2, that's why I've got a Wii, and that's why I've got a DS. Ninty got it /right/ this time.[/QUOTE]



You got software emulation which is better than hardware emulation(just that not all games work), or are you too stupid to know that?
 
But you have a PS2 so why the hell would you care if the PS3 had BC or not? Oh, and the europe PS3s have BC similar to the 360.
 
[quote name='abhinav']Bump for a great quote.[/QUOTE]

Bump for a total moron who bumps threads from six months ago.

Also hardware emulation is much better then software emulation in terms of both quantity and quality. Software emulation has plagued the 360 since it's inception.
 
[quote name='gokou36']You got software emulation which is better than hardware emulation(just that not all games work), or are you too stupid to know that?[/quote]That is completely false.

Perfect playing games > being able to play games with upscaling or other prettifying effects.

Play a few things on the 360 from the original Xbox to see what I mean. You can't play Mech Assault 2's single played because it glitches on a mission 1/2 way through and you can't progress and farther than that. Nevermind the fact that software emulation turns backwards compatibility into an active process. Instaead of things just passively working without the comapny doing anything, you have to wait for patches, upgrades, and hope in vain that obsecure game #7 on your list will get added. I can buy any Gamecube game I want and play it on the Wii without any worry. That's the beauty of hardware emulation.

Hardware is always better. Software is far passable, but far less desirable.
 
Thank you Daroga. Someone who knows what they are talking about is setting the record straight. When PS2 came out, it had physical PSone hardware in it. In the US, this is the same for the PS3, containing PStwo hardware. This is not true in the EU region.

One of Sony's company mantras, as I said, was for people to be able to play the games they have bought throughout the years, without having to keep the console, allowing them to upgrade.

Software Emulation is far less desirable because games use the hardware in different ways. For example, Metal Gear Solid would've been impossible to play on if the PS2 software-emulated PSone games, because one of gaming fundamentals is that Player 1 is using the Player 1 port, unlike where you face Psycho Mantis, and you have to switch controller ports to stop him from reading your 'mind'.

But because the Playstation 2 contains PSone hardware, and the Wii is essentially a tricked-out, overclocked gamecube with an overhauled control mechanism, they can play all games as they were on the original consoles.

I would, honestly, consider buying a PS3 if I could sell my PS2. But evidently, I can't.
 
Thanks for comparing the PS3 software emulation to the 360's craptastic backwards compatibility, because its the same thing right? Not. kPod you're the fool that said PS3 EU has no compatibility, should I re-quote you?


[quote name='kPod']
Software Emulation is far less desirable because games use the hardware in different ways. For example, Metal Gear Solid would've been impossible to play on if the PS2 software-emulated PSone games, because one of gaming fundamentals is that Player 1 is using the Player 1 port, unlike where you face Psycho Mantis, and you have to switch controller ports to stop him from reading your 'mind'.

I would, honestly, consider buying a PS3 if I could sell my PS2. But evidently, I can't.[/QUOTE]

Whats that, 1 in 5,000 games? Why don't you stop whining and stop spreading your lies. I guess you won't be getting a PS3 just because it has no EE right? Like I said, hardware emulation IS better at compatibility. With software emulation they can upscale the resolution and maybe turn AA on. Personally I can't wait for North America's software emulation whenever that is, but I do not want it half assed like the 360s.
 
[quote name='gokou36']Thanks for comparing the PS3 software emulation to the 360's craptastic backwards compatibility, because its the same thing right? [/QUOTE]

Um... yes, it is the same thing. MS choosing to call it "backwards compatibility" rather than "software emulation" does not change the fact that both Sony (in EU/AUS) and Microsoft have people that write code for their systems that enable them to play some of the old games, thus emulating either the PS2 or the Xbox.

Like others have said, the 360's emulation is generally far from perfect. I was thrilled to find the GTA Trilogy on the cheap but I've been stuck playing it on my original Xbox because it runs noticibly better there. At the same time, I have no idea how good the emulation on the PS3 is because I don't want one.
 
[quote name='Halo05']Um... yes, it is the same thing. MS choosing to call it "backwards compatibility" rather than "software emulation" does not change the fact that both Sony (in EU/AUS) and Microsoft have people that write code for their systems that enable them to play some of the old games, thus emulating either the PS2 or the Xbox.

Like others have said, the 360's emulation is generally far from perfect. I was thrilled to find the GTA Trilogy on the cheap but I've been stuck playing it on my original Xbox because it runs noticibly better there. At the same time, I have no idea how good the emulation on the PS3 is because I don't want one.[/QUOTE]


And you obviously missed my point. About 200 games only worked when the 360 released if i'm not mistaken. And I believe over 70% work with the PS3's software emulation.
 
What? Where'd my response go? Oh well.

I thought that your point was that there was something intrinsically different about the way that the 360 and Euro/Aus PS3's run old software. There isn't. The only difference is that at this point, most Xbox games run like crap on the 360. I haven't played a PS3 so I can't comment on how well PS1/2 games run on it. If Sony wants to be smart, they'll hire better programmers than MS has to handle the BC issue.
 
[quote name='gokou36']And you obviously missed my point. About 200 games only worked when the 360 released if i'm not mistaken. And I believe over 70% work with the PS3's software emulation.[/quote]99.9% > 70%, Hardware emulation > Software emulation. That's the point I was making, not trying to compare the euro PS3 to the 360.

Likewise, I'm sure they're are plenty of issues with that PS3 list. Did they play every game all the way through? Doubt it. Might there be game-ending bugs in games because of that software emulation? I'd be shocked if there wasn't. Just because it's on that list doesn't mean that you end up with a real, viable platform to play the older games on. And don't hold your breath on things getting fixed either. At some point, it ain't worth it for them to continue to pour money into making the BC better rather than making new games / features for the new system.
 
[quote name='daroga']99.9% > 70%, Hardware emulation > Software emulation. That's the point I was making, not trying to compare the euro PS3 to the 360.

Likewise, I'm sure they're are plenty of issues with that PS3 list. Did they play every game all the way through? Doubt it. Might there be game-ending bugs in games because of that software emulation? I'd be shocked if there wasn't. Just because it's on that list doesn't mean that you end up with a real, viable platform to play the older games on. And don't hold your breath on things getting fixed either. At some point, it ain't worth it for them to continue to pour money into making the BC better rather than making new games / features for the new system.[/QUOTE]



they'll do periodic updates to it, if people make enough noise. I doubt MS would still be updating BC if people hadn't freaked out at Peter Moore.

anyway, yeah, old thread.


buy a ps3 now, problem solved ;) my condolences to Europe. sucks that you guys had to pay because of Ken Kutaragi's raging overestimation of the system's ability to sell vs. cost of components.
 
...Gokou, you completely missed my point.

Entirely.

That was a rather severe example, yes, but it was proving my point. Sony did /not/ know how game developers would use the hardware, and they still don't. Hence, software emulation sucks because they can't get it right.

And btw, try 2,000. Oh, let me be more specific.

2,000 games supported at launch of the PS3, 75% (approx) of these being PS1 games. And this is the /international/ library because Australia got bent over and screwed too.

Sony ballsed up. Royally.

And, just to add to what you were posting, there isn't going to /be/ software emulation for the US, or any NTSC consoles. This is PAL only.
 
[quote name='kPod']
And, just to add to what you were posting, there isn't going to /be/ software emulation for the US, or any NTSC consoles. This is PAL only.[/QUOTE]



I thought they said they were going to roll it out in the U.S.? I bet it'll be software in the PS3 slim.
 
[quote name='kPod']...Gokou, you completely missed my point.

Entirely.

That was a rather severe example, yes, but it was proving my point. Sony did /not/ know how game developers would use the hardware, and they still don't. Hence, software emulation sucks because they can't get it right.

And btw, try 2,000. Oh, let me be more specific.

2,000 games supported at launch of the PS3, 75% (approx) of these being PS1 games. And this is the /international/ library because Australia got bent over and screwed too.

Sony ballsed up. Royally.

And, just to add to what you were posting, there isn't going to /be/ software emulation for the US, or any NTSC consoles. This is PAL only.[/QUOTE]


No I didn't miss your point. All I see is someone whining about no BC when there is. I don't see any top quality devs complaining about making PS3 games, are you developing anything? And what the hell does it have anything to do with emulation? Its being done in-house.

And its already known that they would be taking out the EE for North America later down the road, long before they announced the EU version.
 
[quote name='gokou36']No I didn't miss your point. All I see is someone whining about no BC when there is. I don't see any top quality devs complaining about making PS3 games, are you developing anything? And what the hell does it have anything to do with emulation? Its being done in-house.[/quote]What on earth are you talking about?

Overall, while software offers up a few things that hardware emulation generally doesn't, there's no reason any rational person would want the headache of software emulation over hardware, unless you're talking about saving yourself a metric ton of cash (see Xbox switch to the PowerPC, and Sony doing anything it can to bring down the PS3 production costs).

Software emulation requires a metric ton of bugtesting, patching, coding, etc that isn't necessary with hardware. Because things will slip by, you'd get your games with new glitches (possibly game-ending), graphical issues, framerate stutters, etc., despite all the extra work put into them.

For a reliable, authentic gaming solution, noting holds a candle to hardware emulation.
 
[quote name='kPod']Sony did /not/ know how game developers would use the hardware, and they still don't. Hence, software emulation sucks because they can't get it right.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='daroga']What on earth are you talking about?

Software emulation requires a metric ton of bugtesting, patching, coding, etc that isn't necessary with hardware. Because things will slip by, you'd get your games with new glitches (possibly game-ending), graphical issues, framerate stutters, etc., despite all the extra work put into them. [/QUOTE]

What the hell are you quoting me for? Maybe you should quote the *other* guy. If you read what I quoted maybe you would understand. What I meant was, there are many different kinds of developers and that the ones who are doing the software emulation doesn't affect the ones that are making PS3 games.

I don't know why you're explaining these things to me, I already know software emulation isn't perfect. I know for a fact that i'm not the only one that would like our old games upscaled. You do realize that not everyone sold their PS2 even though they bought a PS3 right? My point is, saying that there's no BC on the EU PS3 when there is is just plain stupid.
 
[quote name='gokou36']What the hell are you quoting me for? Maybe you should quote the *other* guy. If you read what I quoted maybe you would understand. What I meant was, there are many different kinds of developers and that the ones who are doing the software emulation doesn't affect the ones that are making PS3 games.

I don't know why you're explaining these things to me, I already know software emulation isn't perfect. I know for a fact that i'm not the only one that would like our old games upscaled. You do realize that not everyone sold their PS2 even though they bought a PS3 right? My point is, saying that there's no BC on the EU PS3 when there is is just plain stupid.[/quote]Money is money, pal. Just because different people are working on them doesn't mean one doesn't affect the other.

Your claim above that software emulation is better than hardware is my main beef. The others are up in arms not because "there's no BC on the EU PS3" as the words you put into their mouths say, but that software emulation is a poor subsitute for hardware emulation, especially when the same console in other regions reaps the benefits of hardware emulation.
 
[quote name='daroga']Money is money, pal. Just because different people are working on them doesn't mean one doesn't affect the other.

Your claim above that software emulation is better than hardware is my main beef. The others are up in arms not because "there's no BC on the EU PS3" as the words you put into their mouths say, but that software emulation is a poor subsitute for hardware emulation, especially when the same console in other regions reaps the benefits of hardware emulation.[/QUOTE]


My god, did you NOT see that I even agreed that hardware emulation is better? What I meant about software being better is graphically. I'm not putting words into their mouths about no BC on the EU PS3, thats what kPod said in his first post. Whether you like software emulation or not, BC is STILL there.
 
[quote name='gokou36']My god, did you NOT see that I even agreed that hardware emulation is better? What I meant about software being better is graphically. I'm not putting words into their mouths about no BC on the EU PS3, thats what kPod said in his first post. Whether you like software emulation or not, BC is STILL there.[/quote]...NO. IT. ISN'T.

Software emulation does not equal backwards compatibility. Backwards compatibility entails that EVERY SINGLE GODDAMN GAME works on the system. It doesn't. There's about 2000 out of the entire PSone+PS2 library that works with the PS3. They even admitted that they haven't had the money to put together any upgrades to the visual, aural, or any other aspects.
 
[quote name='kPod']They even admitted that they haven't had the money to put together any upgrades to the visual, aural, or any other aspects.[/QUOTE]


Wow thats the first time i've heard of that, have a link to back up your statement or are you pulling it outta your ass again?
 
I'd like to see that too. Frankly I don't care about the european systems since i live in the US.

It looks like basically Europeans got the same % of backwards compatibility they did with xbox 360.
 
[quote name='gokou36']Wow thats the first time i've heard of that, have a link to back up your statement or are you pulling it outta your ass again?[/quote]K, I twisted it a little. They're /not/ not adding. They've taken away.

The backwards compatibility information page advises players to "avoid the use of 60 Hz and network modes" and "skip optional FMV sequences" in order to minimise the effects of errors in the emulation
Click to expand...
Taken straight from the PS3 Wikipedia entry under 'Backward compatibility >> EU and AU versions'. They've taken away the use of 60Hz and Network modes on a majority of the games.

And, to revise my previous statement, on the PS3 Wiki, it's about 3000 of the PSone + PS2. However, Sony has retracted on the statement of updates for the Emotion Chip emulation.

We will test all forthcoming PS2 titles, but it would be unrealistic to expect significant increases in the number of playable PS2 titles in future firmware upgrades given the above. Whilst J&D and MGS are not listed as playable, their successors MGS3 and Jak and Daxter 2 are playable.
Click to expand...
Sony has taken away from the Playstation libraries, both in function and in games.

Suck it
Have some sloppy seconds, albeit retrospectively.
And Video proof that they're rending the game WORSE than the original console

Happy?
 
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