Sony: "No need to buy outright exclusivity" b/c of market position & 1st party studios

Deader2818 said:
None of this will happen. Pointless thread.
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It`s a dicussion thread thus people discuss if you`re not interested why even post then return later.

Leftykins said:
You act like Sony can afford to just be handing out blank checks, and to Rockstar of all developers.
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I already stated how it usually works Sony would agree on covering part of the marketing/promotional budget, adding sony team staff for the projects or paying for adding staff members, console bundles & reducing the royalty rate.

1- When you`re talking about premier titles capable of selling 10 million it makes sense for both parties to advertise heavily. Remember Homefront bad game/reviews but had ok sales due to aggressive marketing. In terms of GTA Rockstar wouldn`t even reduce the marketing they would mostly likely just add on what Sony offers. More/larger pre-order credits certainly would impact week one sales making the investment pay off immediately.
2-Moving currently employee Sony team staff onto a project makes development cheaper/faster/better/efficient. They already know the hardware & can bring successful trends from existing Sony projects. Since they`re already getting paid it`s a wash plus adding better staff generally results in better selling final product.
3- Makes perfect fiscal sense to bundle exclusive highly marketing titles with a system. The attach rate goes up a ton & alot of systems move thus a "system seller". Just lok at the #`s TLOU:R did GTA would do at least 8x-10x the total game sales & easily move over 1.5 million consoles bundles. With the PS4 reaching 10 million sold having just 3 titles do this in 1 yr would account close to 1/3 of the volume. 3 games performing like that in the US would greatly affect the Vita which needs it. They`re also selling the consoles for profit.
4- The royalty offer means alot to Rockstar but for Sony they would make alot more money in both the short/longterm. It`s like going from getting $5 per disc on a game that sells 5 million to $3.5 per disc on 15 million. And since these are system sellers the consoles they move account for yearly PS+ revenue, accessories & other game sales that aren`t shared with Rockstar at all for years & years.
 
Enuf said:
the PS1/PS2 had amazing exclusives which made them the must have console for years.
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Microsoft didn't even have a console when GTA 3 came out and it's not like Nintendo wanted GTA. Vice City and San Andreas came out on PS2 first, but were both ported within the next year to Xbox. Rockstar must know what's best for them at this point with the last 2 games launching on both Microsoft and Sony consoles. There's a lot of money at stake here and if exclusivity was a better deal, I would think they would be doing it.

GTA just seems like the most unrealistic option when it comes to major exclusive franchises, right up there with Call of Duty. Microsoft pays for 1 month timed exclusive DLC for Call of Duty and that probably cost them a lot, imagine what complete exclusivity or even 1 year timed exclusivity would cost Sony for a whole game like GTA. I imagine if there was a deal to be had for Sony, Rockstar could just take the offer to Microsoft and they could outbid Sony. I don't think exclusivity is realistic at all, but if it was, that is how I would see it going down.

 
Deader2818 said:
I am discussing. Discussing how its a terrible idea and you really have no idea what you are talking about.
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Yeah, it was such a bad idea that Sony already has done it previously & when they loss them one by one as exclusives it wasn`t a party parade except for the other consoles who were able to get them. What are you talking about by your logic it would be a bad idea for Sony to pay for Mario right give nintendo $500 million for 5 yrs & the ability to port existing ones? It bad for Nintendo but not Sony. And since the money is spaced out in various forms of ways over the time period with no cap on yearly incoming annual revenue the hit of the total sum isn`t even bad. But yes there`s a limit to how much Sony could/should pay for it to be worth it obviously.

And if you research the details regarding the recent TR announcement you`ll notice that`s where alot of this has already been layed out. Sony themselves hasn`t even stated it`s a bad idea they just prefer to have their 1st party studios make hits. I`m cool with that as well but none of their recent 1st party titles will reach 20 million LT.

@Kunfusion
By no means am I saying it would cheap or easy to lure these. I simply stating if one is going to pay a premium don`t pay for titles like TR since it`s not a true system seller. I`d rather have AC over TR since that could at least be 2 titles per yr plus 2 completes won`t get 10 million but should do well each time. I don`t think Sony has 5 10 milion sellers on the PS3 w/80+ million install base so it really comes down to this

Which makes more money & has the greater positive short/long term fiscal effect on the Sony ecosystem going forward. Since most of these could be released on a PS3/PS4/PSV at the same time & then re-released 10-14 months later as GOTY/complete. Is it out of the question for low end estimates for these to be at 15 million LT. The impact of these sales would save the vita in the us as all would be the best sellers w/i 1 month or less.

Now if Sony could produce 5 games/franchises capable of doing the same #`s definitely that would be the way to go but what are those franchises? If it was easy to just make super selling franchises or maintain them Sony would already be doing it.
GT, TLOU & UC are the 3 that can get 10 milion on PS4/PSV going forward. KZ, Infamous & GOW do well but no 10 million well per title.

Rockstar is sitting pretty b/c they`re the best next comes COD so they`re in the driver`s seat. Sure they don`t wanna lose out on the 360 install base sales which is why Sony would have to blow them away. Ensuring their commitment to get the same or better revenue via the extra sales from the PS3 install base, PS4/PSV. Bundling any major title on PS3/PS4/PSV should have some appeal as no other company can.

Imagine if Sony had paid to make Minecraft exclusive to PS3/PS4/PSV it would be the best selling PSV game currently. All we have to do is watch how Destiny does. By years end I have no dout that the #`s will show it paid off fo Sony & if they could duplicate it 4 more times they certainly would if the price is right of course it always comes down to money.
 
Very few games even sell 20 mil +. Those games HAVE to because of how much they put into it to make. Gta call of duty and likely madden are the only ones that sell that high. Maybe fifa.
 
Enuf said:
By no means am I saying it would cheap or easy to lure these. I simply stating if one is going to pay a premium don`t pay for titles like TR since it`s not a true system seller. I`d rather have AC over TR since that could at least be 2 titles per yr plus 2 completes won`t get 10 million but should do well each time. I don`t think Sony has 5 10 milion sellers on the PS3 w/80+ million install base so it really comes down to this
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I think we can agree that it would be nice for them to get some great exclusive franchises, but we don't even know what Microsoft paid for Tomb Raider or even the length of exclusivity, so how can we compare that to what they might have to pay for a game like Assassin's Creed? Sony did have AC Liberation launch on Vita and later ported to PS3/360, but I doubt they had to pay Ubisoft much for it, if anything at all. They bundled it with a limited edition console, but I can't say I know how well that did for them. I would guess the white Vita was a big part of any extra sales they may have got at the time.

I think this new Tomb Raider will do better this time and could be big for Xbox. I think a lot of people remembered all the not so great Tomb Raider games that came before the reboot, so not a lot of people cared about it, including myself at the time. Now that the word is out the 2013 game is great and even more people have played it with the definitive edition, I think there will be more hype for the next game and it will sell well.

 
Funny everyone keeps mentioning Rockstar. Sony does/did have a Rockstar exclusive game called "Agent" for PS3 only. Was supposed to come out back in 2009 or 2011, so not sure if the game exists anymore. In 2013 they said it was still in dev, who knows.

 
Deader2818 said:
Very few games even sell 20 mil +. Those games HAVE to because of how much they put into it to make. Gta call of duty and likely madden are the only ones that sell that high. Maybe fifa.
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You just made my points

1- So few titles reach such lofty sales figures so being the only console to have several of them gives strength to that console. For Sony they have the ability to stretch that across 3 viable platforms. Edit: The vita becomes viable with games like this releasing on it another reason for Sony to want them it`ll save the handheld in the US/EU.

2- The fact that they must sell tons of copies b/c of the amount of resources put in to means they`ll certainly welcome another financial backer...if the numbers are right.

In my opinion, which you may or may not agree with and you`re not right or wrong regardless of either stance.
If Sony needed to pay Rockstar $500-$700 million over 5-6 years & in return they got
1- GTAV would only release on PS3/PS4/PSV on the Tues before the PS4 launched
2- GTAV GOTY/Complete releases Oct 2014
There would be PS3/PS4/PSV bundle with the vanilla & GOTY each time. They would also be able to offer holiday bundles with other 1st party games like KZ, TLOU, Destiny & the TLOU:R which would make the sales of each title rise even further.

Then in 2015/2016 the next GTA releases on PS4/PSV & the GOTY/complete releases 8-10 months later. They may also get 1-2 other vita titles like chinatown wars for PSP. All in all for Sony say 65-75 GTA million games sold but there`s another set of huge revenue only they see.
1- The number of systems they sell by having GTA
2- The PS+ revenue generated by these console sales, along with accessories.
3- The boost in sales of 1st party sales bundled/packaged/promoted with GTA
4- The only games sold for the lifetime of that console if it was what pushed a customer to buy it vs XB1/Wii-U.

Only Sony knows if that`s worth it or how much it`s worth. What we do know is Sony currently does not have a franchise that can do this & if they were to spend that same money I`m not sure they could produce one either at least not right away.
 
Konfusion said:
I think we can agree that it would be nice for them to get some great exclusive franchises, but we don't even know what Microsoft paid for Tomb Raider or even the length of exclusivity, so how can we compare that to what they might have to pay for a game like Assassin's Creed? Sony did have AC Liberation launch on Vita and later ported to PS3/360, but I doubt they had to pay Ubisoft much for it, if anything at all. They bundled it with a limited edition console, but I can't say I know how well that did for them. I would guess the white Vita was a big part of any extra sales they may have got at the time.

I think this new Tomb Raider will do better this time and could be big for Xbox. I think a lot of people remembered all the not so great Tomb Raider games that came before the reboot, so not a lot of people cared about it, including myself at the time. Now that the word is out the 2013 game is great and even more people have played it with the definitive edition, I think there will be more hype for the next game and it will sell well.
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There`s no comparing TR vs AC in terms of franchise sales AC passed 73 million this year & releases annually TR probably hasn`t touched half of that & won`t release every year. That`s why I wouldn`t bother making a play for it vs focusing on better sellling franchises.
Both the PSP/PSV AC games sold over 1 million & the bundling certainly assisted each. The numbers would`ve been higher if they were released early in the PSP`s lifespan & if the vita was better supported with more titles like some of the ones I listed.

An E3 announcement, that several of these titles would be Sony exclusives most certainly would have a positive effect in terms of con sales right? And if a person had to choose only 1 console these titles could further tip the scale in Sony`s favor.

In the end Sony says "they don`t need to do it" for now but it`s not like they haven`t done before or would be willing to do it again...if the price is right of course.

Watch when destiny`s #`s come out everything they say will show why having the right paid exclusive matters.
 
Deader2818 said:
Dude, the next GTA prob wont be out for another 4 year slol.
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About right my 2015/2016 would be 3 from 2013 & that`s w/o Sony adding more staff, resources & money also. There could easily be 2-3 teams one for the PS4 & one for the vita. That`s also why I suggested getting RDR too since the next one should sell better than the 1st & would do well on the vita.
 
Enuf said:
About right my 2015/2016 would be 3 from 2013 & that`s w/o Sony adding more staff, resources & money also. There could easily be 2-3 teams one for the PS4 & one for the vita. That`s also why I suggested getting RDR too since the next one should sell better than the 1st & would do well on the vita.
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Series that you keep mentioning like Animal Crossing, Grand Theft Auto and Tomb Raider are aging/dying out. There will be only a niche market for them during this generation so why would Sony want to pay for their exclusive rights?

 
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Enuf said:
There`s no comparing TR vs AC in terms of franchise sales AC passed 73 million this year & releases annually TR probably hasn`t touched half of that & won`t release every year. That`s why I wouldn`t bother making a play for it vs focusing on better sellling franchises.
Both the PSP/PSV AC games sold over 1 million & the bundling certainly assisted each. The numbers would`ve been higher if they were released early in the PSP`s lifespan & if the vita was better supported with more titles like some of the ones I listed.
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That's not really the point though. I'm sure AC was never on the table just like GTA isn't. Microsoft got Tomb Raider because it was realistic and even then, a lot of people were surprised to hear about it. I think it could be a solid move, especially if they were able to buy low on it. You might be able to get a handheld exclusive for a big franchise like they have done with GTA, AC, and COD just because the studios want a presence on handheld or get timed exclusive DLC like COD and Destiny, but that's about it.

Like I said before, these deals are incredibly unlikely, but even if they were realistic, what would stop Microsoft from swooping in and outbidding Sony? Last I checked, Sony isn't exactly in a position to be throwing around that kind of cash and Microsoft has more of a reason to do this than Sony considering how they are behind in console sales.

 
microsoft buying tomb raider will prove to be a huge waste of money. that game will not push consoles just like titanfall didnt really push consoles

 
As I`ve stated at the start, I firmly disagree with their comment of not needing to in general & why they feel the don`t have too. They currently already have one game incoming in Destiny which may outsell TLOU & UC. From what`s been said in regatds to TR seems I`d have to assume they were also approached with either making it a Sony only timed exclusive or doing something to keep it on both at the same time. The problem for both TR & MS is that Sony has gone over 10 million consoles sold & at the rate it`s going by TR 2015 release there maybe 8 million more PS4 than XB1`s and TR for damn sure ain`t closing that gap. Plus isn`t it releasing near UC.

When it comes money it`s not really that bad 6 years $600 million $100 million per yr. The royalty rate can make a huge dent in that on games that sell alot since the rates can be $3-$10 per disc. So if Sony was to get $8 per disc & as part of the deal they forfeit $3 per disc on a game selling 15 million copies that`s a large part of the 1st yr. If they some of their currently payrolled team members to assist that counts & is a wash since they`re are already getting paid regardless. The use of studios/equipment also come in play. So on 60 million total games over that 6 year stretch @ $3 a pop there`s close to 1/3 of the total deal meaning it`ll only cost $60 mil per yr of true cash so of which would goto marketing the games(which they would do anyways).

So on that huge $600 mil deal Sony pays what $30-$50 mil per yr for a title like GTA not bad at all. Every system selling for profit currently & they get insane profit on PS+ yr after yr on many of the consoles sold generated from GTA. None of this revenue is shared.

There`s certainly more to it that what I laid out but it`s a baseline.
 
Deader2818 said:
Considering this is all what if and you can just make up what ever you want I guess you're right?
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There is no right or wrong just facts

Fact #1
Any of these companies would allow Sony to pay, everybody has a price Sony would just have to meet it. A person can love their home & never wanna sell it but if Lebron James offers 10 mil for that $400,000 home....that person, their wife & kids are taking that money & 1 bag each leaving the keys & everything else behind.

Fact #2
Sony could spend $500-$700 million to secure any of these if they offered the right package. Since the money doesn`t have to be given in one lump sum & can be "paid" via the ways I listed it`s doable. Also, what`s been stated from other companies on both sides of the fence these are how most of these deals get done anyways general business practices. Royalties/licenses already exist on every game sold & the stated price ranges from $3-$10.

Fact #3
Most of the titles I listed have better sales record than TR both short term & life time. Thus it wouod be crazy to think the TR effect on either consoles sales could meet or exceed several of other titles listed.

If you`re pay money attempt to pay for the best product. Otherwise, you can pay for DNF2, Brink 2, Homefront 2 and think those will be the sales saviors.
 
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