Steam Deals Thread V13 ~ Star Wars Empire at War $6.80 | The Legend of Korra $10.04 | Red Faction Guerrilla $2.99 |

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MrNinjaSquirrel

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Summer sale has come and gone; welcome to the Steam Deals Thread V13!
 
Stop: Before you go any further be sure you are using Enhanced Steam. It will save you a lot of time and embarrassment in the future.
 
Daily Deal
Star Wars: Empire at War Gold Edition - $19.99 $6.80

 
Yesterday's Deal

N/A

Midweek Madness
The Legend of Korra - $14.99 $10.04

Red Faction - $9.99 $1.49
Red Faction II - $9.99 $1.49
Red Faction Armageddon - $19.99 $2.99
Red Faction Guerrilla - $19.99 $2.99 
 
Thanks to EastX, Detruire, Psydero, and everyone else that has contributed to the thread!

 
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Shifty Slug is such a lazy, shiftless fuck. He said in the AOL 90s chat room that if the Kel dev wants to wait until Early Access is done it's unconventional but there's nothing saying he can't do it (ie I'm fucking lazy and I don't want to get off my ass and talk to him).,

Meanwhile the Kel dev revealed his stuff about wanting to wait until EA was done was really just a smoke screen because his partner dev got in an accident and it's just him dealing with everything now and he's really stressed out and getting the keys is really complicated (except it's not) and we only paid 10 cents anyway so Leave Britttany Me Alone.

He also told me this morning to go ahead and contact Groupees because when he tried to contact them about key distribution (you know, that really complicated process where you request X # of keys then give said keys to the bundle site) they were being "sketchy" and not getting back to him. Must be busy. Or something. Probably the 40 bundles they have going at the same time, who knows?

Also the dev previously said the game was finished so this whole Early Access business is shenanigans.

I swear I get so tired of being the go between with these developers and bundle sites and trying to get them to talk to each other when they inexplicably seem unwilling or unable to do it on their own. It's not all the dev either. Groupees can take a few minutes out of their oh so busy day to stop being cyber hipsters in an oh so retro chat room surrounded by Eurotrash sycophants to give a crash Key Distribution For Dummies course.

Anyway thread is still here and beware the White Knights are out in force wielding their Entitled Swords. 

 
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oh, is this the part where we hold the font up to the light and it becomes visible?
F2GMG2o.gif


[customspoiler=...]
JxpBS.png
[/customspoiler]

 
Bundles = Advertising

All these indie devs who think that getting their games in bundles is how they're gonna bring home the bacon are deluded. Hell, half of the bundles are for charity anyways.

Point is that you're getting your game into the hands of loads of gamers. It gets your name out there. If you just put every game you create into a bundle, you're doing it wrong. Supergiant games, anyone? Make a good, solid indie game (Bastion), put it in bundles at some point, gain more publicity and more fans, then make a new game (Transistor).

You know they're making money on that game. That's a perfect example of how to be an indie dev, whereas Puppygames... is the opposite.
I'm not sure it works this way as a rule. I might play Transistor if it turns up in a bundle but I wouldn't pay non-bundle pricing for it. Why? Well, I'm cheap. Really, that's mostly what it is. I like the idea of supporting devs as a principle, but even if I kickstart something, I can't really afford to go in for more than a few bucks. If I had more disposable income, I probably would do what you're suggesting here (not necessarily regarding Supergiant, but in broader terms). Then again we can't all be Snakeybro.

Misguided is more like it. Holding to a tenet that says "interacting with your customer is a waste of time and money" is questionable enough, but when you paint that motto across your public face you're shooting yourself in the foot. That's the kind of stuff you keep in boardrooms and not on rooftops from which you are shouting.

Furthermore, I'd counter that a measured amount of interaction goes a long way. Certainly it can be non-productive to spend hours interacting with a small subsection of your customer base, but it can be done in a way that reaches a broad audience that makes them still feel connected.

This sounds like the ramblings of someone that knows just enough about business to get himself into trouble.



Sadly, this looks to be the case.
I finally got around to reading the Puppygames post and I guess I have two three four points to make about it:

1) While I have not yet watched Indie Game: The Movie because backlog, I feel quite confident when I say this: Fish is an asshole. I read his tweet the other day which says, and I quote, "Seriously, shut the f*** up about Fez 2. never going to happen. you don’t deserve it." Now I still haven't played Fez and it's not on my super-high-priority list either, but I doubt it's going to make me swear off all other games and worship at the altar of Fishdom. But this quote (which as far as I can tell essentially came out of the clear blue, because I haven't seen game sites buzzing with anticipation about the long-cancelled Fez sequel) speaks volumes about the man's complete lack of self-awareness. Not only does he post a profane tweet, essentially cursing at the gaming community, but then he further belittles everyone by declaring that we are not worthy of his works. For someone who got frightened away from game development by internet trolls, he sure seems to have a god complex. He seems like the kind of guy that if you met him in a social setting, you'd be tempted to punch him in the face within about ten minutes of first speaking with him.

2) I feel like this is well-trodden territory. Years ago, Jeff Vogel of Spiderweb Software posted a then-controversial item on his blog about how the industry had changed and forced him to drop prices, but that he would continue to offer his games on his site for more than what they cost on Steam. Flash-forward to 2014 and most of Spiderweb's back-catalog is on Steam at substantially-discounted prices and several of his games have been bundled multiple times. Vogel pointed out what Cas (?) was saying about games selling more through marketplaces like Steam but unlike Cas he said that the difference in volume of units moved offset the difference in cost. If a dev isn't making money on a marketplace, it might be because his games really aren't that good.

3) The point about support seems goofy. Most gamers and I think even random bundle buyers these days are competent enough to upgrade their own device drivers. Is he really saying that people had struggled to get his Space Invaders and Robotron knockoffs to run on modern systems? Yes the marketplace has changed and no I believe they aren't making as much on sales anymore, but providing basic support for a product is not that time-consuming and not that difficult. If you're responding to every email and every forum post, you're probably doing it wrong. If your product isn't simply broken out of the gate--or if it isn't mind-boggingly, Skyrim-level complex (and if it is, you can probably afford some tech support)--any common problems should be able to be addressed in a FAQ or one or two patches. Blaming problems on people buying laptops from shady sellers seems lazy, to be frank.

4) You have to deal with assholes no matter what line of work you're in. I work in government and I got a call at my desk the other day from a guy who was irate because he didn't believe that he should have to pay the fee we were requiring him to pay. I explained that I would be willing to work with him and if he could provide me with some information about how the activities he was engaged in during a specific timeframe did not require him to pay the full amount, I could make an adjustment. He insisted that he couldn't possibly remember that sort of information and spent a good 15 minutes berating me with language that would make sailors blush, insinuating that I was on heroin, and when I attempted to explain how I was trying to help him, he told me that I needed to let him speak because he was paying my salary--that I was at work and so I had to listen to him. Later in the conversation he suggested that I should seek alternative employment unless I liked sitting around behind a desk and listening to phone calls like his. He ended the conversation by apologizing for ranting at me, telling me that he usually kept a positive attitude, and wishing me a blessed day. I'd venture to say that everyone reading this has had similar experiences at whatever occupation they may have at one time or another. Because that guy was a dick to me, I didn't insult the next 50 people I talked to, so I don't get this weird, "I-work-in-the-games-industry-so-I-should-be-treated-like-a-diva" attitude. People in all walks of life, in all professions, in their personal and professional lives, get treated like crap by other people. By and large, we can't do too much about it, either. Cas says this of Fish in his post: "When he walks into the restaurant where you pitifully scrub the floor like a servile wretch in order to pay for DLC in DOTA2, you’ll call him sir." The implication of the last bit is that Fish is somehow justified in being an asshole because he got rich making his one popular game. Sorry, I don't buy it. Money doesn't give you the right to be a dick to people, especially people who have done nothing to you.

 
I'm not sure it works this way as a rule. I might play Transistor if it turns up in a bundle but I wouldn't pay non-bundle pricing for it. Why? Well, I'm cheap. Really, that's mostly what it is. I like the idea of supporting devs as a principle, but even if I kickstart something, I can't really afford to go in for more than a few bucks. If I had more disposable income, I probably would do what you're suggesting here (not necessarily regarding Supergiant, but in broader terms). Then again we can't all be Snakeybro.
It is a rule. That doesn't mean the rule applies to most of us CAGs. It doesn't.

 
Bundles = Advertising

All these indie devs who think that getting their games in bundles is how they're gonna bring home the bacon are deluded. Hell, half of the bundles are for charity anyways.

Point is that you're getting your game into the hands of loads of gamers. It gets your name out there. If you just put every game you create into a bundle, you're doing it wrong. Supergiant games, anyone? Make a good, solid indie game (Bastion), put it in bundles at some point, gain more publicity and more fans, then make a new game (Transistor).

You know they're making money on that game. That's a perfect example of how to be an indie dev, whereas Puppygames... is the opposite.
Puppygames gave away all of their games before they even got bundled (well, Revenge of the Titans was bundled before then, but not their other games). A lot of people exploited it to get all of their games free.

That alone makes me not take their article seriously.

 
<Snippy-snip>

4) ...He insisted that he couldn't possibly remember that sort of information and spent a good 15 minutes berating me with language that would make sailors blush, insinuating that I was on heroin,
So, since we're the only ones in this thread nao, you were hepped up on the goofballs, amirite?!?!?

 
B/c of this Puppygames thing, I was curious at price glitches. I could probably Google it and I am sure it has been answered many times, but how does Steam handle price glitches? That is, like the Tropico 4 glitch-how much cash does Calypso see? The same percentage of sales as is usual or the percentage if it were at the actual sale price?

B/c if not the latter, that's a freaking issue. Though, I would have to assume the latter since they screw up all too often.

 
I just gave away almost 500 TF2 crates I had accumulated in all my accounts over the past two years.

It feels good to throw the garbage out.

 
I just read the puppygames thing. Wow. Really. Wow.

All I want to say is:

Is not that we buy their games too cheap. THEY are selling us their games that cheap. THEY set the prices!

Found this article... princec comments are really terrible.
AngoraFish says:


Puppygames burnt all goodwill I had for them when they offered a “discounted” preorder price on Revenge of the Titans, when in fact the game appeared in a Humble Bundle for virtually nix on day one. One of the devs then behaved like a dick, insulting anyone in the forums who complained about being baited to buy the game early for a discount when in fact anyone who waited for day one picked it up for significantly less. I’d like to think that their current financial problems had at least a tiny bit to do with pissing off a few of their biggest fans. Suffice to say, I’ll not be preordering anything from them again. If they go under as a result, so be it.
eggy toast says:


Revenge of the Titans was undeniably in Humble Indie Bundle 2 in the “pay what you want” tier, this is not debatable, and according to wikipedia that happened months before the game launched officially on Steam. If you think that’s not a middle finger to people who bought a pre-order, then I guess good luck with your next job.
princec says:


As eggy toast is absolutely determined to have an argument on the internet today, I will endeavour to give him one so he doesn’t go bothering anyone else.

We never sold pre-orders for our game. We sold the beta of the game to fans who were perfectly allowed to wait until it was finished, or wait until it came out on Steam, or wait until it came out in a sale on Steam, or wait until they were in a nursing home. This is how things are sold. You are not entitled to some sort of refund if it subsequently comes out cheaper somewhere else later. I am not entitled to a refund if it comes out cheaper somewhere else later. I buy games too. Sometimes they go on sale after I buy them. I don’t lose any sleep crying over the few dollars I didn’t give to the developer. (Especially as I know that most of them, like ourselves, are broke as fuck).

As I recall the OP of this thread was an utter twat on our forums complaining he’d bought the game the day before Humble was announced and he was pissed off that he could have bought it for 1 cent.

Well, fuck him.

fuck him royally.

He can take his 1 cent and shove it up his arse. And all future money he ever wants to give us, and all the money that his friends and friends of friends might have ever wanted to give us for our games. We do not want customers like him. We want people who actually like to play our games and think they’re worth owning. Not self-entitled spoiled brats who think the world owes them entertainment for nothing.

So long as we find enough people who like what we do – and who understand that it’s a two-way relationship – we’re good. As for the rest of ‘em… good riddance. And if that’s why we’re broke, so be it.

[edit: just to be clear - I'm referring not to eggy toast but to the OP of the thread]
Really??

No matter what a customer told you, you CAN'T insult him!!

 
Slight derail from the puppygames talk, anyone know of any sites that list games to back on kickstarter that actually look good and are worthwhile? Theres so much crap on there its hard to wade through what might be worth it and might not

 
I am now more ashamed of owning a Puppygames title than Bad Rats.

I wonder if I had Ride to Hell if I could replace Bad Rats in that statement.

EDIT: That being said, I just got Droid Assault and Ultratron on Tremor so I'm never attempted to purchase at a low sale price and Steam. Only bundles b/c I'm forced to. Less pennies=more of an insult in their eyes.

 
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4) You have to deal with assholes no matter what line of work you're in. I work in government and I got a call at my desk the other day from a guy who was irate because he didn't believe that he should have to pay the fee we were requiring him to pay. I explained that I would be willing to work with him and if he could provide me with some information about how the activities he was engaged in during a specific timeframe did not require him to pay the full amount, I could make an adjustment. He insisted that he couldn't possibly remember that sort of information and spent a good 15 minutes berating me with language that would make sailors blush, insinuating that I was on heroin, and when I attempted to explain how I was trying to help him, he told me that I needed to let him speak because he was paying my salary--that I was at work and so I had to listen to him. Later in the conversation he suggested that I should seek alternative employment unless I liked sitting around behind a desk and listening to phone calls like his. He ended the conversation by apologizing for ranting at me, telling me that he usually kept a positive attitude, and wishing me a blessed day. I'd venture to say that everyone reading this has had similar experiences at whatever occupation they may have at one time or another. Because that guy was a dick to me, I didn't insult the next 50 people I talked to, so I don't get this weird, "I-work-in-the-games-industry-so-I-should-be-treated-like-a-diva" attitude. People in all walks of life, in all professions, in their personal and professional lives, get treated like crap by other people. By and large, we can't do too much about it, either. Cas says this of Fish in his post: "When he walks into the restaurant where you pitifully scrub the floor like a servile wretch in order to pay for DLC in DOTA2, you’ll call him sir." The implication of the last bit is that Fish is somehow justified in being an asshole because he got rich making his one popular game. Sorry, I don't buy it. Money doesn't give you the right to be a dick to people, especially people who have done nothing to you.
Dude, I'm right there with you. I game to forget about the A-holes from the real world. Peace Brotha.
 
Slight derail from the puppygames talk, anyone know of any sites that list games to back on kickstarter that actually look good and are worthwhile? Theres so much crap on there its hard to wade through what might be worth it and might not
Cavern Kings is def a really good game, its my first game i backed ever.

Some other ones that look really good-

Jotun(18 hrs left)

Jenny LeClue(42 hrs left)

Ray's The Dead(32 days left)

Aegis Defenders(14 days left)

Woolfe- The Red Hood Diaries(15 days left)

Hive Jump(16 days left)

Tetropolis(26 days left)

 
Slight derail from the puppygames talk, anyone know of any sites that list games to back on kickstarter that actually look good and are worthwhile? Theres so much crap on there its hard to wade through what might be worth it and might not
None. I guess I've never kickstarted any games so I never will, but I really don't see the point anymore with Early Access. I'd rather wait to at least get a playable demo or something though a lot of EA games are more advanced than that. It also gets tied to your Steam account right away so no need to worry about forgetting about it or tracking down a Steam key later on.

Honestly, I think this covers what Puppygames was getting at, without the bile, hatred and "We made bad decisions that lead to us needing to likely go out of business, but it's all of you to blame and not us, because we're brilliant fucking special snowflakes that create things... not like you shit-consuming plebes."

http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.de/2014/05/the-indie-bubble-is-popping.html
That was a really well written article and I agree with everything he says. The situation does suck for devs. I'm a bundle prince myself, but I know full well bundles are awful for the gaming industry. Before bundles I would spend money on a few games I really wanted/liked every year and after bundles I might spend slightly more a year, but I spend it on like 100s more games each year so instead of giving 4-5 bucks for each game, I probably give .50 cents or less.

 
That was a really well written article and I agree with everything he says. The situation does suck for devs. I'm a bundle prince myself, but I know full well bundles are awful for the gaming industry. Before bundles I would spend money on a few games I really wanted/liked every year and after bundles I might spend slightly more a year, but I spend it on like 100s more games each year so instead of giving 4-5 bucks for each game, I probably give .50 cents or less.
But you spend more overall. You spend money on games you never would have given a second thought to, just because they are in a bundle.

The problem with the internet is that dumbasses like you are allowed to post along with us intelligent folks, dumbass.
Good, good. Let the hate flow.

 
But you spend more overall. You spend money on games you never would have given a second thought to, just because they are in a bundle.

Good, good. Let the hate flow.
Yeah, I mean I don't spend a lot more and I likely would be spending slightly more each year anyways due to the price of AAA titles going up, but like the article says, the problem is that even if I spend a little more, it's still getting spread across way more devs than before.

Here's my breakdown:

2008 - 1 Steam Game Purchased

2009 - 3 Steam Games Purchased

2010 - 50ish Steam Games Purchased

2011 - 40ish Steam Games Purchased

2012 to 2014 - 1400ish Steam Games Purchased (so about 450 a year)

That coincides with the year bundles really took off and just looking at my purchases I can tell you I gave devs a lot more money individual prior to 2012.

 
Couple things on Puppygames guy.  They make good games... but nothing amazing.  Nice little time wasters that really aren't worth more than the $10 or so they charge.  I've read the guy's blog for a while and he's fairly full of himself and has way too high an opinion on his games amidst a sea of others.  I suspect they'll be out of business shortly as they were headed in that direction for a while now.

Re: Phil Fish, he doesn't have the kind of money people seem to think he has... he's not Notch.  I suppose when you're in your mid twenties (or whatever Fish is) and get a few hundred thousand dollars you think you're set for life... but that is not the case.  Not unless you plan to live at a fairly middle class or above standard, want health insurance, a car, a good house, possibly a wife and kids, and all the other trimmings people expect from life.  What's more, Fez isn't that good of a game.  Fish is a sociopath whose twitter rants scream mental disorder.  What's he going to do when the Fez money runs out?

 
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Couple things on Puppygames guy. They make good games... but nothing amazing. Nice little time wasters that really aren't worth more than the $10 or so they charge. I've read the guy's blog for a while and he's fairly full of himself and has way too high an opinion on his games amidst a sea of others. I suspect they'll be out of business shortly as they were headed in that direction for a while now.

Re: Phil Fish, he doesn't have the kind of money people seem to think he has... he's not Notch. I suppose when you're in your mid twenties (or whatever Fish is) and get a few hundred thousand dollars you think you're set for life... but that is not the case. Not unless you plan to live at a fairly middle class or above standard, want health insurance, a car, a good house, possibly a wife and kids, and all the other trimmings people expect from life. What's more, Fez isn't that good of a game. Fish is a sociopath whose twitter rants scream mental disorder.
That's a surprisingly mature and balanced assessment of the situation, dumbass. Someone must have kidnapped your dumbass and replaced you with a slightly less dumbass version of yourself. Gilby is still a dumbass though. I don't care if he Gilby's a bundle. The devs don't need his dumbass anyways.

 
Some more comedy gold from Puppygames guy: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/08/18/puppygames-battledroid-basingstoke/

I like how on the one hand he's says he's above it all and doesn't care what the customers/random internet posters say but on the other here he is commenting on every article written about him.  I don't blame the guy.  I believe his wife had medical issues and he's at the end of his rope.  But the answer isn't to lash out at your potential customer base and burn a lot of the goodwill you built up.  Good quality indie games still sell at above bundle fodder prices.  If yours isn't then it's a good clue that it isn't above bundle fodder quality.

The whole 'it doesn't matter what my customers think I do what I want' attitude is moronic.  I understand you shouldn't have to take abuse from momos who paid $1 or less for your game but to go full retard and risk alienating everyone across the board makes no sense.  This is classic Basil Fawlty right here.  Running a hotel would be so great if it weren't for all those annoying guests!  Unfortunately for Princeccccccccccccc he isn't the star of a comedy series, it's real life for him and he's going down in flames.

 
Some more comedy gold from Puppygames guy: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/08/18/puppygames-battledroid-basingstoke/

I like how on the one hand he's says he's above it all and doesn't care what the customers/random internet posters say but on the other here he is commenting on every article written about him. I don't blame the guy. I believe his wife had medical issues and he's at the end of his rope. But the answer isn't to lash out at your potential customer base and burn a lot of the goodwill you built up. Good quality indie games still sell at above bundle fodder prices. If yours isn't then it's a good clue that it isn't above bundle fodder quality.

The whole 'it doesn't matter what my customers think I do what I want' attitude is moronic. I understand you shouldn't have to take abuse from momos who paid $1 or less for your game but to go full retard and risk alienating everyone across the board makes no sense. This is classic Basil Fawlty right here. Running a hotel would be so great if it weren't for all those annoying guests! Unfortunately for Princeccccccccccccc he isn't the star of a comedy series, it's real life for him and he's going down in flames.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/08/18/puppygames-battledroid-basingstoke/#comment-1656921

 
So that girl Zoe Quinn who did Depression Quest slept with 5 guys to get positive coverage of her game and did sexual favors, lol. Does not suprise me at all, I'd tap it too.

Pic of Zoe Quinn-

mqdefault.jpg


Weird colored hair? check

Lip ring? check

glasses? check

Made a crappy game that everyone loves? check

2hipster4u gurl gamer
Wow, what a fucking ugly, manipulative dumbass. Seriously hate people who pretend to be one thing in public for their own benefit and are the complete opposite in private. I read TotalBiscuit's response and actually like him now a little bit. Maybe the bugger isn't so bad, at least he has integrity.

This is why I don't pay full price for indie games. These devs don't deserve my pennies.

 
Puppygames would've had an easier go at it if they'd decided to shit on their customers via the usual publisher routes of DLC, DRM, charging for beta testing, or some combination thereof.

 
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