stem cell success(non embryonic)

[quote name='camoor']Obama overturned Bush's backwards stem cell policy.[/QUOTE]

his stem policy was on government funding for embryonic stem cells. doing a little research, embryonic stem cells seemed to be hyped up and have a high chance to become cancerous. theres more money in private research for this type of stuff anyway, you really think the government will beat out the private sector in research?
 
[quote name='yahoosale14']his stem policy was on government funding for embryonic stem cells. doing a little research, embryonic stem cells seemed to be hyped up and have a high chance to become cancerous. theres more money in private research for this type of stuff anyway, you really think the government will beat out the private sector in research?[/QUOTE]

In funding research that matters, I think the government can make a significant and meaningful impact. Corporations are short-term thinkers and they have a tendency to reach for the low-hanging fruit such as better breast implants or the next erection pill. An infusion of corporate and private philanthropic capital is needed if we, as a society, want to make significant progress on the more complex and chronic illnesses and medical conditions.
 
Why is "embryonic" stem cell research required again? I love how you are pushing embryonic stem cell research on a story that was very successful without using embryos.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Why is "embryonic" stem cell research required again? I love how you are pushing embryonic stem cell research on a story that was very successful without using embryos.[/QUOTE]

Why does it need to be outlawed?
 
[quote name='Knoell']Why is "embryonic" stem cell research required again? I love how you are pushing embryonic stem cell research on a story that was very successful without using embryos.[/QUOTE]

who is this directed at? i'm just asking whats the whole craze with embryonic stem cells..
 
[quote name='Msut77']Uneccesary quote marks need to be outlawed.[/QUOTE]

People who cannot spell need to be restricted from writing/typing.

Next time you correct grammar make sure you do it right yourself.

Oh and it is quotation marks.
 
[quote name='camoor']Why does it need to be outlawed?[/QUOTE]

It was directed at this guy.

Camoor, Do I have to explain democracy to you or just that some peoples opinions on when life begins differ from yours?
 
[quote name='Knoell']It was directed at this guy.

Camoor, Do I have to explain democracy to you or just that some peoples opinions on when life begins differ from yours?[/QUOTE]

I would hope that you would have adequate justification for this position. Despite nine pages of claiming science was on your side, I saw nothing but generic quotes from scientific articles and word games.
 
[quote name='camoor']I would hope that you would have adequate justification for this position. Despite nine pages of claiming science was on your side, I saw nothing but generic quotes from scientific articles and word games.[/QUOTE]

I have seen nothing from you that estimates that there is a biological tipping point from developing fetus to human in the third trimester besides obvious physical attributes that mostly start well within the first trimester.

At least with conception scientists have identified the beginning of a new individual.

Regardless, people who believe life starts with the embryo view experimenting with embryos is wrong. Can you find that so hard to believe? This is why people want to outlaw it. This is another story of you labeling people who believe differently as "crazy" or "stupid". People have different views than you. Get over it.
 
[quote name='Msut77']Elaborate.[/QUOTE]

What's to elaborate? Destroying them? Wrong. Donating them? Sure why not. Donating them to be experimented on? Wrong.

Freezing them for an undeterminedly amount of time is a moral gray area.
 
It's funny how you can kind of get a feel for someone simply by looking at how they phrase things. Like Knoell sometimes saying "life" without prefacing it with "human". Now it could be said it's just an accident, but already knowing Knoell's opinions, I don't think so.

So I would assume that Knoell is naturally against any life being harmed. Is that right, Knoell?

Let me answer, of course not, you kill things all the time. So my advice is this, if your hang up is that one day something could potentially, possibly, if everything goes right, become human, at least being honest about it and just say it instead of arguing over when human life begins.
 
[quote name='Clak']It's funny how you can kind of get a feel for someone simply by looking at how they phrase things. Like Knoell sometimes saying "life" without prefacing it with "human". Now it could be said it's just an accident, but already knowing Knoell's opinions, I don't think so.

So I would assume that Knoell is naturally against any life being harmed. Is that right, Knoell?

Let me answer, of course not, you kill things all the time. So my advice is this, if your hang up is that one day something could potentially, possibly, if everything goes right, become human, at least being honest about it and just say it instead of arguing over when human life begins.[/QUOTE]

It isn't about the potential. It is human. I thought we got over this.

As for your whole "killing" things argument, wtf are you talking about? We are talking about human embryos, and you are arguing that I didn't preface life with human? Seriously? Are you contradicting yourself when you eat a hamburger but won't kill a human?
 
[quote name='dohdough']Sounds like knoell doesn't really understand the process of IVF. Should any of us be surprised?[/QUOTE]

What would you like to correct me on? Im guessing the leftover parts as that is what you commented on before.

Go for it, and explain to my why there is never a case of left over embryos from IVF. ;)
 
[quote name='Knoell']What would you like to correct me on? Im guessing the leftover parts as that is what you commented on before.

Go for it, and explain to my why there is never a case of left over embryos from IVF. ;)[/QUOTE]
I didn't want to influence your answer so I kept it vague.

It has nothing to do with there being leftover embryos; it has to do with all embryos not being viable to begin with even AFTER implantation. Embryos are created knowing that most of them will not even survive to develop into a fetus.

Donating for implantation into someone else is even more ridiculous because people going through the expense of IVF want their own genetic material to make that kid. The fact of the matter is that pretty much everything in those leftover petri dishes is considered garbage.

This is why the question from clak was regarding potential because all evidence points to that despite you saying that it doesn't. You don't show any concern for the embryos that won't develop after implantation.
 
[quote name='Knoell']It isn't about the potential. It is human. I thought we got over this.

As for your whole "killing" things argument, wtf are you talking about? We are talking about human embryos, and you are arguing that I didn't preface life with human? Seriously? Are you contradicting yourself when you eat a hamburger but won't kill a human?[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Knoell']It was directed at this guy.

Camoor, Do I have to explain democracy to you or just that some peoples opinions on when life begins differ from yours?[/QUOTE]

I'm simply reading what you post, Knoelly. You mentioned when life begins, which obviously goes back to the abortion thread. So I replied with what I''ve observed. I don't see where I'm contradicting myself at all. And yes it is about potential, that's all it's about. Because even though I can't say when something becomes human, I also can't say that something which one day may be human, is human, while you seem to be able to do just that.
 
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[quote name='dohdough']I didn't want to influence your answer so I kept it vague.

It has nothing to do with there being leftover embryos; it has to do with all embryos not being viable to begin with even AFTER implantation. Embryos are created knowing that most of them will not even survive to develop into a fetus.

Donating for implantation into someone else is even more ridiculous because people going through the expense of IVF want their own genetic material to make that kid. The fact of the matter is that pretty much everything in those leftover petri dishes is considered garbage.

This is why the question from clak was regarding potential because all evidence points to that despite you saying that it doesn't. You don't show any concern for the embryos that won't develop after implantation.[/QUOTE]

You are so wrong. Viable embryos are donated. Are scientists able to determine what is viable and what isn't? Yes. Do women sometimes have failed embryos naturally? Yes. Is this different than killing viable embryos? Yes. IVF does nothing that does not take place inside the woman.
 
[quote name='Knoell']You are so wrong. Viable embryos are donated. Are scientists able to determine what is viable and what isn't? Yes. Do women sometimes have failed embryos naturally? Yes. Is this different than killing viable embryos? Yes. IVF does nothing that does not take place inside the woman.[/QUOTE]
Huh? You completely missed the point there dude.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Huh? You completely missed the point there dude.[/QUOTE]

Here is a question for you. Let's say we provide federal funding for embryonic stem cell research, can you make sure that you are not experimenting on an embryo that is and will develop into a human?
 
[quote name='Knoell']You are so wrong. Viable embryos are donated. Are scientists able to determine what is viable and what isn't? Yes. Do women sometimes have failed embryos naturally? Yes. Is this different than killing viable embryos? Yes. IVF does nothing that does not take place inside the woman.[/QUOTE]
First off, how natural is it to medicate a woman into dropping more eggs than usual in a menstral cycle, then harvest them while hopefully fertilizing them with sprem in a petri dish, then reinserting more than one embryo into the woman knowing that at least 75% of the embryos will not implant. It's still creating a human embryo knowing that most of them will die. Do you know why Octomom and Kate+8 get so much press? It's because multiple eggs are not fertilized by multiple sperm, muchless become embryos that become fetuses that reach full term. This kind of thing is SO RARE that people get tv shows.

[quote name='Knoell']Here is a question for you. Let's say we provide federal funding for embryonic stem cell research, can you make sure that you are not experimenting on an embryo that is and will develop into a human?[/QUOTE]
Now you're just playing with semantics. Why don't you just admit that you're primarily concerned with the mere possiblity of a human zygote with the potential to develop into a fully functional human being and be done with this.
 
Interesting article here; if this technique of painting the trachea to trick the immune system works in the long term, it could mean that any deteriorated hip or bone could be replaced artificially.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Now you're just playing with semantics.[/QUOTE]

I don't think the guy understands semantics. He uses human as an adjective then a noun, and then conflates the two and thinks that he has successfully parsed the science when all he has done is played a silly semantical word game.

The key problem is that Knoell starts at the viewpoint of his Christian religion and works his way backwards. Even if you work your way through all of the rationalizations he has come up with, he will just hit the eject button on the convo.
 
[quote name='dohdough']First off, how natural is it to medicate a woman into dropping more eggs than usual in a menstral cycle, then harvest them while hopefully fertilizing them with sprem in a petri dish, then reinserting more than one embryo into the woman knowing that at least 75% of the embryos will not implant. It's still creating a human embryo knowing that most of them will die. Do you know why Octomom and Kate+8 get so much press? It's because multiple eggs are not fertilized by multiple sperm, muchless become embryos that become fetuses that reach full term. This kind of thing is SO RARE that people get tv shows.


Now you're just playing with semantics. Why don't you just admit that you're primarily concerned with the mere possiblity of a human zygote with the potential to develop into a fully functional human being and be done with this.[/QUOTE]

How often do failed normal pregnancies occur in which the embryo does not implant? Quite often. Do anti abortion people consider that abortion? No. If you attempt to kill it on purpose? Yes.

In these cases you are trying to create life, not destroy life for monetary, emotional, or convienence reasoning. Same thing with birth control that does not allow the embryo to be implanted. You are creating a way in which the course of nature cannot, and will not take place. You not giving it the chance to develop into what it can.

As for whatever the hell camoor is going on about? I don't speak idiot.
 
[quote name='Knoell']How often do failed normal pregnancies occur in which the embryo does not implant? Quite often. Do anti abortion people consider that abortion? No. If you attempt to kill it on purpose? Yes.[/QUOTE]

Nice job DohDough, you flushed him out. Finally we're getting a backstage glance at the idiocy that is the Knoell thought process.

Don't worry Knoell, you won't get this post either, but it's not for you. Pretend you didn't read it.
 
Knoell is one of those "every sperm is sacred" nonces.

Presumably he wants to investigate every woman who has a miscarriage to see if they interfered with the "natural process" and charge them with murder.
 
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[quote name='Msut77']Knoell is one of those "every sperm is sacred" nonces.

Presumably he wants to investigate everyone woman who has a miscarriage to see if they interference with the "natural process" and charge them with murder.[/QUOTE]

Because everything I said goes against us but whatever. How about just closing down the places that provide abortion?
 
[quote name='Knoell']Because everything I said goes against us but whatever. How about just closing down the places that provide abortion?[/QUOTE]

Do I have to explain democracy to you or just that some peoples opinions on when life begins differ from yours?
 
[quote name='camoor']Do I have to explain democracy to you or just that some peoples opinions on when life begins differ from yours?[/QUOTE]

Ha, that would be funny if you weren't consistantly labeling the opposing view as crazy, stupid, and whatnot.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Ha, that would be funny if you weren't consistantly labeling the opposing view as crazy, stupid, and whatnot.[/QUOTE]

Ah well, I thought it was funny :lol:
 
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