Study: Americans shockingly ignorant when it comes to U.S. History

[quote name='reddjoey']Strell to be fair, there are a couple ways to view and solve that problem. Not that -44 is an answer I could figure out how to get to[/QUOTE]

The best part is that he didn't make the most obvious mistake but still managed to screw it up. Like, knocking around in there somewhere was the concept of order of operations.. But it got detoured along the way somehow.

And no, I'm not sure how he got that either (well, I mean.. I see how, I just can't quite believe it.) I'm gonna need to see his work.
 
[quote name='reddjoey']
EDIT: -44 is a possibility[/QUOTE]

In what sense?

PEMDAS dood.


  1. Parentheses
  2. Exponents
  3. Multiplication and Division (left->right)
  4. Addition and Subtraction (left->right)
Granted, this is just how math is done, it's not an immutable law of nature or anything. But still.
 
[quote name='Strell']I have a good idea. Everybody solve this mathematical problem:

3 - 4 x 10 + 7 = ???

No cheating now.[/QUOTE]

Duh! The answer is obviously 24...

-INCH PYTHONS OF CALAMITOUS CRANIAL CAPACITY, BROTHER!!!!

233292hulkhoganflexamer.jpg
 
[quote name='budsmoka']- 44?[/QUOTE]

hulkamania22.jpg


I mean, I can see how someone could do the problem wrong, but how did you come up with that? How old are you man?
 
The belief that race is the reason for differences in ability is by definition racism. There was an interesting 4chan discussion about this but it basically was started by and swarmed with stormfront dudes.
 
I'm kind of surprised by the democracy/republic part considering that libertarians seem to bring it up at every opportunity.
 
[quote name='budsmoka']I'm not a racist, I'm just making a scientific observation.[/QUOTE]

I know what studies you are citing BUT its not because of the color of their skin, IDIOT! Of course that is the most obvious factor. I wonder why? See, there are these things called socioeconomic factors...

So, according to your early statements, you are stupid as well? Well, I've seen some studies that you could draw the conclusion from that racists tend toward lower IQ...
 
If I make the statement "Women tend to have less testicles than men." and have scientific evidence, studies, statistics and facts to back up the statement, does that still make me a sexist pig?

Likewise, if someone makes the statement "Minorities tend to have more body mass than white people." and has the studies and statistics to back it up (http://obesity1.tempdomainname.com/subs/fastfacts/Obesity_Minority_Pop.shtml), does it make them racist to say it?
 
I'd say most people want to be physically fit in an ideal situation, whereas only a tiny fraction of a fraction of women want testicles.
 
I shouldn't even have to point out how bad your comparisons are, when you ought to know you are making them in bad faith to begin with.
 
[quote name='Strell']I shouldn't even have to point out how bad your comparisons are, when you ought to know you are making them in bad faith to begin with.[/QUOTE]

It occurs to me that a good litmus test going forward would be to ask yourself whether you're about to come down on the side of something that budsmoka said. :roll:
 
So... it's racist to make a negative generalization of a minority, even when the facts support that generalization?

Those damn scales are racists!
 
You're jumping around between different arguments now.

Also, I'll remember this attitude the next time a global warming topic comes up.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']If I make the statement "Women tend to have less testicles than men." and have scientific evidence, studies, statistics and facts to back up the statement, does that still make me a sexist pig?

Likewise, if someone makes the statement "Minorities tend to have more body mass than white people." and has the studies and statistics to back it up (http://obesity1.tempdomainname.com/subs/fastfacts/Obesity_Minority_Pop.shtml), does it make them racist to say it?[/QUOTE]

I see no problem with this. However budsmoka doesn't apply because he was making an argument about causation. Your just rehashing statistical data without really making an argument. Kinda like a statistical parakeet.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']If I make the statement "Women tend to have less testicles than men." and have scientific evidence, studies, statistics and facts to back up the statement, does that still make me a sexist pig?
[/QUOTE]
:rofl: Somehow I can actually picture Bob doing this.
 
[quote name='Strell']I'd say most people want to be physically fit in an ideal situation, whereas only a tiny fraction of a fraction of women want testicles.[/QUOTE]

penis envy?

It occurs to me that a good litmus test going forward would be to ask yourself whether you're about to come down on the side of something that budsmoka said.
Click to expand...

I don't know, myke came close to it in another thread yesterday.
 
[quote name='bvharris']In what sense?[/QUOTE]

I've been looking this problem over, trying to figure out how the -44 answer came to be.
I think I figured it out.

3 - 4 x 10 + - 7 = ???

Those pluses and minuses can be a pain in the butt. ;)

[quote name='Strell']You're jumping around between different arguments now.[/QUOTE]

Same argument I made before. It doesn't make someone racist because they state a fact or a statistic.

[quote name='cindersphere']I see no problem with this. However budsmoka doesn't apply because he was making an argument about causation. Your just rehashing statistical data without really making an argument. Kinda like a statistical parakeet.[/QUOTE]

budsmoka made an argument about causation? I suppose his "Coincidence?" line could be taken that way.

[quote name='Clak']:rofl: Somehow I can actually picture Bob doing this.[/QUOTE]

Somehow, I can actually see someone getting offended by pointing it out.
 
I know we are all stupid, but some of the questions are unfair like this one

On Memorial Day, Americans traditionally decorate the graves of fallen soldiers to remember and commemorate their sacrifices in defense of our country and liberties. Where is the oldest monument commemorating fallen American soldiers from the War of Independence located?

Yorktown, Virginia

Lexington, Massachusetts

New York City, New York

Malvern, Pennsylvania


Who the hell knows this one?
 
Back on topic for a minute, I think the reason Americans are becoming more "ignorant" is over-dependence on Internet information. I've overheard kids saying "Why should I memorize a bunch of stuff? I can look it up on my iPhone in 10 seconds!" As infuriating as a comment like that can be, they do have a point. To be honest, I had a similar thought when I was a kid in math class: "Why should I show my work when I can just use a calculator??"

It's getting harder and harder for teachers to convince their students the importance of intelligence over convenience. I was an English Teacher in Japan for about 5 years and I often had problems with kids who would whip out electronic dictionaries EVERY TIME I tried to ask them simple questions based on grammar we'd been studying for WEEKS. *sigh*
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']I know we are all stupid, but some of the questions are unfair like this one

On Memorial Day, Americans traditionally decorate the graves of fallen soldiers to remember and commemorate their sacrifices in defense of our country and liberties. Where is the oldest monument commemorating fallen American soldiers from the War of Independence located?

Yorktown, Virginia

Lexington, Massachusetts

New York City, New York

Malvern, Pennsylvania


Who the hell knows this one?[/QUOTE]

I happen to know it's in Lexington, A because I've been there and B because I'm a nerd, but your point is valid.
 
[quote name='Gameboy415']To be honest, I had a similar thought when I was a kid in math class: "Why should I show my work when I can just use a calculator??"
[/QUOTE]

My girlfriend, a college graduate with what I consider to be well above average intelligence and a good career, can't calculate a 20 percent tip on a $40 bill in her head. I highly doubt she's alone among educated Americans.

Granted, every cell phone in the world can calculate a tip, but these are the kinds of things I still think people should know (no, she doesn't appreciate it when I tell her that). It's startling how many educated Americans can't even remember how to do basic mathematical functions. We're getting choosier (or lazier) about what knowledge we retain.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']So... it's racist to make a negative generalization of a minority, even when the facts support that generalization?

Those damn scales are racists![/QUOTE]

No, you obviously don't get it. If you lead with a racist explanation when their are other equally or better explanations then yes, you are making a racist statement. Get it now? McFly?
 
[quote name='budsmoka']Minorities are more likely to be obese as children too. Coincidence?[/QUOTE]

Minorities have different cultural foods, which may bare higher calorie counts per meal.

Lets take indian people. They are smarter than you, but since their meals are filled with rice and oil, they are more likely to be out of shape than you are.
 
[quote name='joeboosauce']No, you obviously don't get it. If you lead with a racist explanation when their are other equally or better explanations then yes, you are making a racist statement. Get it now? McFly?[/QUOTE]

I don't believe saying "Minorities are more likely to be obese as children too." is using race as an explanation - or does that statement even try to come up with an explanation. That would be more like "Minorities are more likely to be obese as children because they're not white." - or something to that effect.
 
[quote name='reddjoey']Strell to be fair, there are a couple ways to view and solve that problem.

EDIT: -44 is a possibility[/QUOTE]

Not under PEMDAS?
 
[quote name='UncleBob']So... it's racist to make a negative generalization of a minority, even when the facts support that generalization?

Those damn scales are racists![/QUOTE]

To be fair, BMI isn't really the greatest way to figure out if you're healthy or not. If you're 6'3 and 224 pounds, you're considered overweight.

terrell_owens_france.jpg
 
[quote name='UncleBob']I don't believe saying "Minorities are more likely to be obese as children too." is using race as an explanation - or does that statement even try to come up with an explanation. That would be more like "Minorities are more likely to be obese as children because they're not white." - or something to that effect.[/QUOTE]

You also would have to use the qualifier "except for Asians".
 
[quote name='Gameboy415']Back on topic for a minute, I think the reason Americans are becoming more "ignorant" is over-dependence on Internet information. I've overheard kids saying "Why should I memorize a bunch of stuff? I can look it up on my iPhone in 10 seconds!" As infuriating as a comment like that can be, they do have a point. To be honest, I had a similar thought when I was a kid in math class: "Why should I show my work when I can just use a calculator??"

It's getting harder and harder for teachers to convince their students the importance of intelligence over convenience. I was an English Teacher in Japan for about 5 years and I often had problems with kids who would whip out electronic dictionaries EVERY TIME I tried to ask them simple questions based on grammar we'd been studying for WEEKS. *sigh*[/QUOTE]
Well technically memorizing facts is not intelligence. That's why critical thinking is stressed these days over simply memorizing a bunch of dates or locations. I know in my world civ 2 class he cared nothing for having us memorize many dates, but we'd better be able to show how every major civilization was connected.

Now it's different when it's a skill, obviously if you're going into chemistry you need to memorize some important information. Even in my statistics class my professor was more worried with us understanding what answers meant then how we got them.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']I don't believe saying "Minorities are more likely to be obese as children too." is using race as an explanation - or does that statement even try to come up with an explanation. That would be more like "Minorities are more likely to be obese as children because they're not white." - or something to that effect.[/QUOTE]


Maybe you did not see Budsmoka's original comment. He is relating minorities to having lower IQ due to his obesity=lower IQ. Saying the cause of their obesity is that "minorities" have lower IQ is definitely racist. There is no established studies that prove that IQ is related to race. There was one attempt by some racist group of scientists decades ago and that was proven to be biased.

Certain minorities do have greater health issues. This is a fact. I would never say that is racist. But if I said that was because they are stupid as budsmoka says then that is obviously a racist conclusion. There are socioeconomic reasons for this correlation.

[quote name='budsmoka']
Originally Posted by SpeedyG
Well the Asshole might have a point. There have been quite a few studies showing that in Morbidly Obese children there is a tendency for lower IQ's.
Click to expand...
Minorities are more likely to be obese as children too. Coincidence? [/QUOTE]
 
[quote name='joeboosauce']Maybe you did not see Budsmoka's original comment. He is relating minorities to having lower IQ due to his obesity=lower IQ. Saying the cause of their obesity is that "minorities" have lower IQ is definitely racist. There is no established studies that prove that IQ is related to race. There was one attempt by some racist group of scientists decades ago and that was proven to be biased.

Certain minorities do have greater health issues. This is a fact. I would never say that is racist. But if I said that was because they are stupid as budsmoka says then that is obviously a racist conclusion. There are socioeconomic reasons for this correlation.[/QUOTE]

There are studies that show that certain minorities, on average, tend to have lower IQs. Now, I'm sure we can both agree that this has nothing inherently to do with race and more to do with those pesky socioeconomic reasons (mainly, environment).

So... minorities have a higher rate of obesity (we're going to go with the current standards for "obese" - I know that can be debated, but that's a whole 'nother ball of wax). Minorities tend to have lower IQs on average. None of this is coincidence... and it's all related... and it doesn't make someone "racist" because they recognize this.
 
If you say "minorities have a low IQ" but you think the explanation is due to factors other than what makes them a minority, then yes, it is a coincidence. Saying "Coincidence?" implies that you don't think it's a coincidence (in the same way it does when conspiracy theorists say it), i.e. you think they're causally related (minorities have low IQs because they're minorities, not another factor).
 
[quote name='UncleBob']There are studies that show that certain minorities, on average, tend to have lower IQs. Now, I'm sure we can both agree that this has nothing inherently to do with race and more to do with those pesky socioeconomic reasons (mainly, environment).

So... minorities have a higher rate of obesity (we're going to go with the current standards for "obese" - I know that can be debated, but that's a whole 'nother ball of wax). Minorities tend to have lower IQs on average. None of this is coincidence... and it's all related... and it doesn't make someone "racist" because they recognize this.[/QUOTE]

If you are attributing the cause as Mr budsmoka to "stupidity" then yes it is racist.

Specific minorities ie Blacks and Hispanics tend to have higher rates of obesity, various diseases, etc. But when you look at location, environmental factors, social factors, etc you realize its not due to race. For example, blacks who live in cities have on average worse health than their suburban counterparts. Further, blacks in the USA have worse health than blacks in other countries. So, the factor this demonstrates is environment. Economics is related to this. Pollution dumping in inner cities have been shown to be another contributing factor. Access to grocery stores vs convenience stores is yet another factor.

So, to lead with the rationale that health of minorities is attributed to IQ is racist. Especially when there are socioeconomic factors as you rightly point out. IQ has less to do with health of minorities than a whole host of other causes.
 
[quote name='SpazX']If you say "minorities have a low IQ" but you think the explanation is due to factors other than what makes them a minority, then yes, it is a coincidence. Saying "Coincidence?" implies that you don't think it's a coincidence (in the same way it does when conspiracy theorists say it), i.e. you think they're causally related (minorities have low IQs because they're minorities, not another factor).[/QUOTE]

Well said!
 
[quote name='joeboosauce']If you are attributing the cause as Mr budsmoka to "stupidity" then yes it is racist.

Specific minorities ie Blacks and Hispanics tend to have higher rates of obesity, various diseases, etc. But when you look at location, environmental factors, social factors, etc you realize its not due to race. For example, blacks who live in cities have on average worse health than their suburban counterparts. Further, blacks in the USA have worse health than blacks in other countries. So, the factor this demonstrates is environment. Economics is related to this. Pollution dumping in inner cities have been shown to be another contributing factor. Access to grocery stores vs convenience stores is yet another factor.

So, to lead with the rationale that health of minorities is attributed to IQ is racist. Especially when there are socioeconomic factors as you rightly point out. IQ has less to do with health of minorities than a whole host of other causes.[/QUOTE]

Just wanted to add one qualifier. When immigrants enter this country statistically they are usually healthier than the average American. Both legal and illegal immigrants. After about 5 years however these finding taper off and they start to become obese along the lines of their economic class.

[quote name='UncleBob']There are studies that show that certain minorities, on average, tend to have lower IQs. Now, I'm sure we can both agree that this has nothing inherently to do with race and more to do with those pesky socioeconomic reasons (mainly, environment).

So... minorities have a higher rate of obesity (we're going to go with the current standards for "obese" - I know that can be debated, but that's a whole 'nother ball of wax). Minorities tend to have lower IQs on average. None of this is coincidence... and it's all related... and it doesn't make someone "racist" because they recognize this.[/QUOTE]

Your statistics about minorities being of lower IQ is shown by the numbers, but is not necessarily true. The test might be measuring a minorities ability of correctly reading/hearing a mode of language they are unfamiliar with and getting lower scores due to coding issues with the test and not the fact they have a lower IQ. The question is how are they related. Do you believe the IQ test and lay it at the feet of they are just plain mentally inferior, or do you look at the education they received and lay it at the feet that they never received the skills needed to properly regulate health, life, and economic issues. Bit more to your point yes, when you are looking at independent studies that all used different measures and have different logical progressions, they are not all related. Such as, how is IQ related to me learning about my BMR and the amount of calories I can ingest due to my lifestyle (sedentary, moderate, or heavy activity) as it relates to my current weight.
 
They dont know US history because its all incorrectly written and just a bunch of pro america propoganda bullshit. Highschool history is only about 45% true, the rest is twisted up and stuff left out and reworded. No wonder its confusing to kids, its a half truth what they learn.

Look at even world history, in highschool world history only involved countries and events that america is or would be involved in. We never learned about africa, we never learned about new guiena, we didnt learn about sweden or greece. All we learned about in world history was stuff that america was involved in and was painted in such a way that we seemed like the heroes of the world. Only time we learned about germany is when we learned how we kicked the germans ass in WW2 and somehow single handedly won the war. Highschool ww2 lessons paint the americans and we rode in and saved the entire world from the germans and were big heroes to everyone which is bullshit, we didnt show up till the end of the war and we still didnt do awhole lot and we certainly didnt turn the tide or win the war for the entire world.

US history was worse. It was all stuff portrayed to show how awesome this country is and can do no wrong. We didnt learn about how we tricked and stole this country from the indians while we slaughtered them and made them live in the desert. We never learned one negative thing about america at all, ever. And it made me sick.

US history is confusing because its almost all twisted or just plain false.
 
I would like to propose that gargus and budsmoka get their own stickied thread in which they can type any thought they have at any given moment. It's tough to go through the entire site for all these nuggets, I want them all in one place, please.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Imo, much of what is taught in most history classes is so whitewashed, even if people did pay attention, they are being disservice.[/QUOTE]

quoted for posterity and an extra emphasis on the "whitewashed"
 
[quote name='Mr Unoriginal']I would like to propose that gargus and budsmoka get their own stickied thread in which they can type any thought they have at any given moment. It's tough to go through the entire site for all these nuggets, I want them all in one place, please.[/QUOTE]

I wanna see their inevitable cage match with Fire_Thief :cool:
 
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