Trancendental
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Bad news for young Rastafarians:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a9R7bIj_KpwQ&refer=home
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a9R7bIj_KpwQ&refer=home
Supreme Court changes "Free Speech" to "Limited Speech, Drugs are bad mmmkay"
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Mr Unoriginal
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If it's on school property I thought the administration always had a right to stop freedom of expression?
Trancendental
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[quote name='Mr Unoriginal']If it's on school property I thought the administration always had a right to stop freedom of expression?[/quote]
Not always. I was just reading that a previous Supreme Court had ruled that students could wear black armbands to protest the Vietnam war.
It's funny what schools will censor. I still remember this kid who used to wear heavy-metal tshirts with skeletons electrocuting prisoners and all other types of horrors, and he was never talked to. However a different kid brought in a retro "Red Stripe" tshirt and was told to wear it inside out. I'm pretty sure you could have worn a shirt with a dude getting his head cut off, as long as there wasn't any beer or bikini girls in the background.
The student in this case sounds like a real jackass, but in my book freedom means the freedom to act stupid.
Not always. I was just reading that a previous Supreme Court had ruled that students could wear black armbands to protest the Vietnam war.
It's funny what schools will censor. I still remember this kid who used to wear heavy-metal tshirts with skeletons electrocuting prisoners and all other types of horrors, and he was never talked to. However a different kid brought in a retro "Red Stripe" tshirt and was told to wear it inside out. I'm pretty sure you could have worn a shirt with a dude getting his head cut off, as long as there wasn't any beer or bikini girls in the background.
The student in this case sounds like a real jackass, but in my book freedom means the freedom to act stupid.
Ikohn4ever
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it was on the sidewalk, which is public property, plus they closed school early that day
Mr Unoriginal
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[quote name='Ikohn4ever']it was on the sidewalk, which is public property, plus they closed school early that day[/QUOTE]
Hmm, I read over the article and I don't really understand how the school can punish a student for something done on their own time off school property. If the principal saw an underage student smoking in the mall on the weekend could he suspend him come Monday?
Hmm, I read over the article and I don't really understand how the school can punish a student for something done on their own time off school property. If the principal saw an underage student smoking in the mall on the weekend could he suspend him come Monday?
Reality's Fringe
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That's what happens when you put 70 year old out -of -touch politicians in high positions (this applies broad spectrum). ....Afraid of all those long-haired communists smoking their goof-balls....
CocheseUGA
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[quote name='Ikohn4ever']it was on the sidewalk, which is public property, plus they closed school early that day[/QUOTE]
No.
No.
2poor
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[quote name='Mr Unoriginal']Hmm, I read over the article and I don't really understand how the school can punish a student for something done on their own time off school property. If the principal saw an underage student smoking in the mall on the weekend could he suspend him come Monday?[/quote]
At my high school they would check student's myspaces, and one time some kids got in trouble for having a picture of themselves with alcohol. I wouldn't be too surprised if your hypothetical situation happened.
At my high school they would check student's myspaces, and one time some kids got in trouble for having a picture of themselves with alcohol. I wouldn't be too surprised if your hypothetical situation happened.
Aladezaran
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[quote name='Mr Unoriginal']Hmm, I read over the article and I don't really understand how the school can punish a student for something done on their own time off school property. If the principal saw an underage student smoking in the mall on the weekend could he suspend him come Monday?[/quote]
They ended classes early so the students could view the event, hence they are still on school time and thus subject to its rules. Try viewing it like you would a school trip, even if they are off of school grounds they are still held to the same standards as if they were in the classroom.
[quote name='camoor']The student in this case sounds like a real jackass, but in my book freedom means the freedom to act stupid.[/quote]
Yes, you have the freedom to act stupid, doesn't mean you won't face the consequences for it.
They ended classes early so the students could view the event, hence they are still on school time and thus subject to its rules. Try viewing it like you would a school trip, even if they are off of school grounds they are still held to the same standards as if they were in the classroom.
[quote name='camoor']The student in this case sounds like a real jackass, but in my book freedom means the freedom to act stupid.[/quote]
Yes, you have the freedom to act stupid, doesn't mean you won't face the consequences for it.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/12/AR2007031201699.html
Clearing things up:
1. He wasn't on school property.
2. Students were released from school to view the olympic torch passing through the town.
3. It's still bullshit. The sign was not disruptive, not patently offensive, and ambiguous enough so as to not clearly promote illegal drug use. Furthermore, the school's ability to keep a "consistent education vision/message" should not overrule free speech, especially that of adult students.
Clearing things up:
1. He wasn't on school property.
2. Students were released from school to view the olympic torch passing through the town.
3. It's still bullshit. The sign was not disruptive, not patently offensive, and ambiguous enough so as to not clearly promote illegal drug use. Furthermore, the school's ability to keep a "consistent education vision/message" should not overrule free speech, especially that of adult students.
PyroGamer
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[quote name='evanft']http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/12/AR2007031201699.html
Clearing things up:
1. He wasn't on school property.
2. Students were released from school to view the olympic torch passing through the town.
3. It's still bullshit. The sign was not disruptive, not patently offensive, and ambiguous enough so as to not clearly promote illegal drug use. Furthermore, the school's ability to keep a "consistent education vision/message" should not overrule free speech, especially that of adult students.[/QUOTE]
In referrence to the bold section: Why?
Clearing things up:
1. He wasn't on school property.
2. Students were released from school to view the olympic torch passing through the town.
3. It's still bullshit. The sign was not disruptive, not patently offensive, and ambiguous enough so as to not clearly promote illegal drug use. Furthermore, the school's ability to keep a "consistent education vision/message" should not overrule free speech, especially that of adult students.[/QUOTE]
In referrence to the bold section: Why?
[quote name='Aladezaran']
Yes, you have the freedom to act stupid, doesn't mean you won't face the consequences for it.[/QUOTE]
The freedom to act and have to face legal or punitive consequences from those in authority is no freedom at all. If we use that definition then Jewish people under Hitler had freedom of religion, they just had to face the consequences.
In my opinion true freedom means that a government cannot force or prevent an act by an adult (and to some extent children) unless said act directly hurts another party physically or financially (like theft). That said few if any countries are completely free as most try to force their citizens to conform to the religion of the majority, the supposed needs of the country or to control them for their own safety.
Yes, you have the freedom to act stupid, doesn't mean you won't face the consequences for it.[/QUOTE]
The freedom to act and have to face legal or punitive consequences from those in authority is no freedom at all. If we use that definition then Jewish people under Hitler had freedom of religion, they just had to face the consequences.
In my opinion true freedom means that a government cannot force or prevent an act by an adult (and to some extent children) unless said act directly hurts another party physically or financially (like theft). That said few if any countries are completely free as most try to force their citizens to conform to the religion of the majority, the supposed needs of the country or to control them for their own safety.
MrBadExample
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[quote name='Kayden']Thats hardly something appropriate for school... or funny.[/QUOTE]
The nice thing about this country is that it's not supposed to matter if it's either. It's still supposed to be protected speech.
The nice thing about this country is that it's not supposed to matter if it's either. It's still supposed to be protected speech.
CocheseUGA
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Anyone find it ironic a father and son who are fighting for free speech rights now reside in China?
dragonreborn23
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[quote name='camoor']Not always. I was just reading that a previous Supreme Court had ruled that students could wear black armbands to protest the Vietnam war.
It's funny what schools will censor. I still remember this kid who used to wear heavy-metal tshirts with skeletons electrocuting prisoners and all other types of horrors, and he was never talked to. However a different kid brought in a retro "Red Stripe" tshirt and was told to wear it inside out. I'm pretty sure you could have worn a shirt with a dude getting his head cut off, as long as there wasn't any beer or bikini girls in the background.
The student in this case sounds like a real jackass, but in my book freedom means the freedom to act stupid.[/quote]
Well, silently protesting a war and holding up a massive banner that promotes drug use across the street from a school during a school sanctioned event is a bit different. The government is giving federal money to the school to promote an anit-drug agenda.
This kid was just being a smartass but if he was a serious protester, their are plenty of places where he could hold up that banner that aren't next to a school.
It's funny what schools will censor. I still remember this kid who used to wear heavy-metal tshirts with skeletons electrocuting prisoners and all other types of horrors, and he was never talked to. However a different kid brought in a retro "Red Stripe" tshirt and was told to wear it inside out. I'm pretty sure you could have worn a shirt with a dude getting his head cut off, as long as there wasn't any beer or bikini girls in the background.
The student in this case sounds like a real jackass, but in my book freedom means the freedom to act stupid.[/quote]
Well, silently protesting a war and holding up a massive banner that promotes drug use across the street from a school during a school sanctioned event is a bit different. The government is giving federal money to the school to promote an anit-drug agenda.
This kid was just being a smartass but if he was a serious protester, their are plenty of places where he could hold up that banner that aren't next to a school.
[quote name='dragonreborn23']Well, silently protesting a war and holding up a massive banner that promotes drug use across the street from a school during a school sanctioned event is a bit different. The government is giving federal money to the school to promote an anit-drug agenda.
This kid was just being a smartass but if he was a serious protester, their are plenty of places where he could hold up that banner that aren't next to a school.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, so? Just because the school is advancing an anti-drug agenda does not make any perceivably pro-drug speech magically against the rules.
This kid was just being a smartass but if he was a serious protester, their are plenty of places where he could hold up that banner that aren't next to a school.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, so? Just because the school is advancing an anti-drug agenda does not make any perceivably pro-drug speech magically against the rules.
Trancendental
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[quote name='dragonreborn23']Well, silently protesting a war and holding up a massive banner that promotes drug use across the street from a school during a school sanctioned event is a bit different. The government is giving federal money to the school to promote an anit-drug agenda.
This kid was just being a smartass but if he was a serious protester, their are plenty of places where he could hold up that banner that aren't next to a school.[/quote]
Who should be the ulitmate arbiter of which issues are worthy of protest? The government, the majority, dragonreborn23...?
I also like your assertion that areas next to schools should be protest-free zones - pretty soon it's going to be like that episode of "Arrested Development" where the "protest zone" is inside a 10'x 10' cage in the middle of the desert that the police put a lock on.
This kid was just being a smartass but if he was a serious protester, their are plenty of places where he could hold up that banner that aren't next to a school.[/quote]
Who should be the ulitmate arbiter of which issues are worthy of protest? The government, the majority, dragonreborn23...?
I also like your assertion that areas next to schools should be protest-free zones - pretty soon it's going to be like that episode of "Arrested Development" where the "protest zone" is inside a 10'x 10' cage in the middle of the desert that the police put a lock on.
mykevermin
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Change it to "Xanax 4 Jesus" or "Budweiser 4 Jesus" and see how that works out for 'em.
It's very rare that I agree with Justice Stevens. This guy was 18 at the time of the incident and not on school property. Technically, the Principlal should have been charged with petit theft for "confiscating" the property of a private ciitizen. However, the school has the right to suspend any enrolled student they choose according to their rules and procedures for disrupting the school's "learning environment". Can you imagine the potential chaos that could ensue if they didn't have this leeway in some situations?
This kid's school privlidges were suspended, not his civil rights. He really doesn't have a legal leg to stand on since the police weren't involved and he was under the charge of the principle during the event. The case would be more interesting if he had not been a student. I haven't read the decision, so I don't know if this point was addressed.
This kid's school privlidges were suspended, not his civil rights. He really doesn't have a legal leg to stand on since the police weren't involved and he was under the charge of the principle during the event. The case would be more interesting if he had not been a student. I haven't read the decision, so I don't know if this point was addressed.
bread's done