Target bans Manhunt 2 from it's store

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Story from Gamespot's Rumor Control:

Source: A post on Evil Avatar stating that the poster's friend, a store-level Target employee, disclosed information about an internal memo saying the chain was to stop selling Take-Two Interactive's controversial action horror game.
What we heard: The Evil Avatar post about Target yanking Manhunt 2 made the rounds on a variety of sites, which generally repeated the blurb with a warning that it was little more than an unconfirmed rumor. On the surface, the skepticism with which the information was rereported seems warranted.
Retail employees are notorious spawning pools for bogus rumors, and the idea of Target pulling Manhunt 2 from its shelves a week after release made little sense. There was plenty of hype and public outcry about the game's violence and inital AO for Adults Only rating before Manhunt 2 came close to release, so having the retailer pull it pleading ignorance isn't really acceptable.
The surfacing of a hack for the PSP edition of the game within hours of Manunt 2's official Halloween release could spur such a move, but the ESRB was quick to reconfirm the game's M for Mature rating. It also would be unusual to pull all versions of the game from store shelves, but to continue selling the only readily hackable version on the store's Web site, as Target was doing yesterday.
That said, it might have just taken some time for the memo to circulate. As of this afternoon, Manhunt 2 for the PSP was no longer listed on the chain's online store. Today, a rep for the retailer contacted GameSpot with the following statement:

The official story: "Target strives to provide merchandise that will appeal to a wide variety of guests. We also want guests to be comfortable with the purchasing decisions they make at Target. All video games and computer software sold at Target currently carry ratings by the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB)--from early childhood through mature audiences. While Manhunt 2 was given a Mature rating by the ERSB, we received additional information that players can potentially view previously filtered content by altering the game code. As a result, we have decided not to carry the game."

Bogus or not bogus?: Not bogus.
Click to expand...
Since the PSP version is hackable, they've removed all versions of the game.
 
PS2 is hackable too. Theres a patch to get rid of the blurs. Its pretty stupid that they would ban it though. The more publicity it gets the more stores that do have it in stock will sell.
 
"We know people have to go out of their way to get the uncensored content, but we're going to pull it off our shelves just in case."

They better not sell Drain-O, I hear if you drink it you could die.
 
It's just Target covering their ass after the Hot Coffee mod. Probably didn't help that sales is probably very low. More than likely, they weighed the margin of profit against potential backlash and just decided to cut product.

Ah well, I'm sure there's hundreds of stores that are still willing to carry Manhunt 2 . . . for now.
 
Man this game is getting a lot of attention. Probably would've flew under the radar without all this controversy.
 
[quote name='yukine']"We know people have to go out of their way to get the uncensored content, but we're going to pull it off our shelves just in case."

They better not sell Drain-O, I hear if you drink it you could die.[/QUOTE]

:applause: :applause: :applause:
 
its not like it's the bulk of their sales or some shit. They're just protecting their ass from a dumbass people that could sue and what not. it's all about the $$$, not about the fuckin' morals
 
[quote name='yukine']"We know people have to go out of their way to get the uncensored content, but we're going to pull it off our shelves just in case."

They better not sell Drain-O, I hear if you drink it you could die.[/QUOTE]

The difference is that Drain-O has warning labels on it to provide legal protection to the retailer if someone does drink it.

Manhunt 2 has an M rating, based on the use of filters for some of the content. A store has potential liability stemming not just from intended uses of a product, but reasonably foreseeable ones as well.

As it is reasonably foreseeable that a kid would use a decently publicized exploit to see uncensored content in the game, they need to consider their exposure to potential complaints of selling this game to minors. The other alternative is to clearly label each one to indicate that the uncensored material is available.

Target is just protecting its self-interests. The larger effects of Manhunt 2's removal from store shelves is really not their concern.
 
Rockstar, grow some fucking balls.

All you need to do is say "If you don't carry Manhunt 2, we will not be sending you GTA4".
 
[quote name='strummerbs']The difference is that Drain-O has warning labels on it to provide legal protection to the retailer if someone does drink it.

Manhunt 2 has an M rating, based on the use of filters for some of the content. A store has potential liability stemming not just from intended uses of a product, but reasonably foreseeable ones as well.

As it is reasonably foreseeable that a kid would use a decently publicized exploit to see uncensored content in the game, they need to consider their exposure to potential complaints of selling this game to minors. The other alternative is to clearly label each one to indicate that the uncensored material is available.

Target is just protecting its self-interests. The larger effects of Manhunt 2's removal from store shelves is really not their concern.[/quote]
I'll admit I'm not very knowledgable when it comes to the legality of these sort of issues.

But how, exactly, is a retailer responsible when they are selling what is being provided? The kid wouldn't automatically have access to the content, he has to exploit the software to get to it. It'd be like Target being responsible for selling a child a fountain pen, when he ends up using it as a shiv and killing a fellow classmate. I know I'm using very extreme analogies, but it just seems to me that Target is being overly cautious for something they couldn't be held responsible for legally.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Rockstar, grow some fucking balls.

All you need to do is say "If you don't carry Manhunt 2, we will not be sending you GTA4".[/QUOTE]

I really don't think Rockstar or Take2 gives a shit about either game anymore. They've given no marketing at all to Manhunt 2, and since the delay for GTAIV, they haven't done a single thing to keep people hyped up about the game.

I mean obviously they need these games to make money but they really must have fired their entire marketing team.
 
[quote name='yukine']I'll admit I'm not very knowledgable when it comes to the legality of these sort of issues.

But how, exactly, is a retailer responsible when they are selling what is being provided? The kid wouldn't automatically have access to the content, he has to exploit the software to get to it. It'd be like Target being responsible for selling a child a fountain pen, when he ends up using it as a shiv and killing a fellow classmate. I know I'm using very extreme analogies, but it just seems to me that Target is being overly cautious for something they couldn't be held responsible for legally.[/quote]

I think it's more of the fact that they are a family friendly store and are very concious of that fact and don't want stuff like that in the store that is seen as "family unfriendly" Now granted they still carry GTA and Halo, but who wouldn't? :)
 
[quote name='yukine']I'll admit I'm not very knowledgable when it comes to the legality of these sort of issues.

But how, exactly, is a retailer responsible when they are selling what is being provided? The kid wouldn't automatically have access to the content, he has to exploit the software to get to it. It'd be like Target being responsible for selling a child a fountain pen, when he ends up using it as a shiv and killing a fellow classmate. I know I'm using very extreme analogies, but it just seems to me that Target is being overly cautious for something they couldn't be held responsible for legally.[/QUOTE]

They aren't excused from legal liability by merely selling what is provided. I won't get into the specific law here, as it's not neccesary. Basically, Target could be sued, but then Target may be able to sue Rockstar/Take Two to recoup their losses.

The fact is, stores may be liable for not just the intended uses of a product, but also those uses which are reasonably foreseeable and aren't inherent to the nature of the product (this is VERY simply stated, and nowhere near the full explanation, but whatever). The pen example, while the use as a stabbing weapon may be foreseeable, is pretty unavoidable, as a pen cannot generally be made more safe. Manhunt 2's foreseeable uses include using a widely publicized exploit to display uncensored images. Manhunt 2 could have been made more "safe" in this regard.

Now, I will say this, a lawsuit on these facts would be pretty difficult to prove from a plaintiff's side. It can be done, however. Target is likely more concerned about the inevitable publicity that would come from the filing of a lawsuit for selling this game to minors.
 
[quote name='strummerbs']They aren't excused from legal liability by merely selling what is provided. I won't get into the specific law here, as it's not neccesary. Basically, Target could be sued, but then Target may be able to sue Rockstar/Take Two to recoup their losses.

The fact is, stores may be liable for not just the intended uses of a product, but also those uses which are reasonably foreseeable and aren't inherent to the nature of the product (this is VERY simply stated, and nowhere near the full explanation, but whatever). The pen example, while the use as a stabbing weapon may be foreseeable, is pretty unavoidable, as a pen cannot generally be made more safe. Manhunt 2's foreseeable uses include using a widely publicized exploit to display uncensored images. Manhunt 2 could have been made more "safe" in this regard.

Now, I will say this, a lawsuit on these facts would be pretty difficult to prove from a plaintiff's side. It can be done, however. Target is likely more concerned about the inevitable publicity that would come from the filing of a lawsuit for selling this game to minors.[/QUOTE]

Can't sue under product liability without injury. The game is rated M thus the only people who could sue would be 17 year olds who purchased a M rated product but instead were exposed to extreme violence resulting in a traumatic experience. However, there is a design defect but I'm not sure how that applies to hacked videogames. Under Strict Liability there is some level of comparative negligence.

So yeah, I don't see how Rockstar/Target can get sued.
 
[quote name='strummerbs']The difference is that Drain-O has warning labels on it to provide legal protection to the retailer if someone does drink it.

Manhunt 2 has an M rating, based on the use of filters for some of the content. A store has potential liability stemming not just from intended uses of a product, but reasonably foreseeable ones as well.

As it is reasonably foreseeable that a kid would use a decently publicized exploit to see uncensored content in the game, they need to consider their exposure to potential complaints of selling this game to minors. The other alternative is to clearly label each one to indicate that the uncensored material is available.

Target is just protecting its self-interests. The larger effects of Manhunt 2's removal from store shelves is really not their concern.[/quote]

I disagree. It is too tenuous of an argument to make. There has to be harm and damages for there to be negligence. Assuming somone accesses the cut content where's the harm? There is no causal link between playing a video game and real world violence which is the leap you would have to make in this instance in order to establish negligence. Product liability really doesn't come into play here and even if it did you would still use a negligence standard in order to establish it.
 
[quote name='javeryh']I disagree. It is too tenuous of an argument to make. There has to be harm and damages for there to be negligence. Assuming somone accesses the cut content where's the harm? There is no causal link between playing a video game and real world violence which is the leap you would have to make in this instance in order to establish negligence. Product liability really doesn't come into play here and even if it did you would still use a negligence standard in order to establish it.[/QUOTE]

Isn't P bared from recovery due to his actions? The P has to modify the finished product in order to access the explicit content which would result in assumption of risk/contributory negligence ie no claim.
 
[quote name='javeryh']I disagree. It is too tenuous of an argument to make. There has to be harm and damages for there to be negligence. Assuming somone accesses the cut content where's the harm? There is no causal link between playing a video game and real world violence which is the leap you would have to make in this instance in order to establish negligence. Product liability really doesn't come into play here and even if it did you would still use a negligence standard in order to establish it.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you. I said it would be tough. I should have said nearly impossible. I could imagine someone trying to assert a breach of warranty claim based on the rating sticker, though. Damages are going to be incredibly speculative. Causation would be a battle of "experts". I'm also not aware of the law of each state regarding sale of explicit content to minors, so there may be a statutory action somewhere for that.

I wouldn't dream of taking the case personally, but I've seen equally tenuous cases get filed. As I said, Target's not worried about the actual legal liability, they are worried about the negative publicity that comes from having their name associated with adult material.
 
[quote name='strummerbs']They aren't excused from legal liability by merely selling what is provided. I won't get into the specific law here, as it's not neccesary. Basically, Target could be sued, but then Target may be able to sue Rockstar/Take Two to recoup their losses.

The fact is, stores may be liable for not just the intended uses of a product, but also those uses which are reasonably foreseeable and aren't inherent to the nature of the product (this is VERY simply stated, and nowhere near the full explanation, but whatever). The pen example, while the use as a stabbing weapon may be foreseeable, is pretty unavoidable, as a pen cannot generally be made more safe. Manhunt 2's foreseeable uses include using a widely publicized exploit to display uncensored images. Manhunt 2 could have been made more "safe" in this regard.

Now, I will say this, a lawsuit on these facts would be pretty difficult to prove from a plaintiff's side. It can be done, however. Target is likely more concerned about the inevitable publicity that would come from the filing of a lawsuit for selling this game to minors.[/quote]

If that was true, then wouldn't Target have to remove pretty much any PC game they sell? Almost all PC games are hackable and mods for nudity (see Oblivion), blood (see Counter-Strike and many others) etc., can be made for these games.

If Target can be held liable for any content that could be added to a game which might change its original rating, I would think they would need to remove their entire PC gaming section.
 
[quote name='lebowsky']If that was true, then wouldn't Target have to remove pretty much any PC game they sell? Almost all PC games are hackable and mods for nudity (see Oblivion), blood (see Counter-Strike and many others) etc., can be made for these games.

If Target can be held liable for any content that could be added to a game which might change its original rating, I would think they would need to remove their entire PC gaming section.[/QUOTE]

Again, it's the publicity aspect at play. Manhunt 2 is the subject of a lot of media scrutiny. A lawsuit based on it WILL get airtime at the major news networks. A lawsuit based on Oblivion or most other PC games simply wouldn't be as attractive a story, and thus Target is less worried.
 
I really. don't. care.

Hell, if anything I'm happy about it. This means less chances of stupid lawsuits from some dumb parent buying their kid the game.

BTW: is wal*mart selling this game?
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']BTW: is wal*mart selling this game?[/QUOTE]

I saw it on shelves one day; few days later it was cleared out completely, and now it's shelf tag is gone.
 
[quote name='strummerbs']They aren't excused from legal liability by merely selling what is provided. I won't get into the specific law here, as it's not neccesary. Basically, Target could be sued, but then Target may be able to sue Rockstar/Take Two to recoup their losses.

The fact is, stores may be liable for not just the intended uses of a product, but also those uses which are reasonably foreseeable and aren't inherent to the nature of the product (this is VERY simply stated, and nowhere near the full explanation, but whatever). The pen example, while the use as a stabbing weapon may be foreseeable, is pretty unavoidable, as a pen cannot generally be made more safe. Manhunt 2's foreseeable uses include using a widely publicized exploit to display uncensored images. Manhunt 2 could have been made more "safe" in this regard.

Now, I will say this, a lawsuit on these facts would be pretty difficult to prove from a plaintiff's side. It can be done, however. Target is likely more concerned about the inevitable publicity that would come from the filing of a lawsuit for selling this game to minors.[/quote]
Hmm, I didn't think of it that way.

It makes sense though.
 
What's more offensive than Target banning Manhunt is the utter disregard for the word 'its' in the title of this thread. ITS store. Not IT'S store. Come on. ITS is possessive, IT'S is a contraction, it's not tough.
 
[quote name='ThatDamnDave']What's more offensive than Target banning Manhunt is the utter disregard for the word 'its' in the title of this thread. ITS store. Not IT'S store. Come on. ITS is possessive, IT'S is a contraction, it's not tough.
 
Target could hand this game out at the door to children and they would be liable for nothing except bad publicity. The "defective product" legal analogy is completely inapplicable unless the disc was exploding into dangerous shards or something.

They are taking the game off their shelves (a) to make themselves look good and (b) because it's a niche game that isn't a big seller anyway.

[quote name='RedvsBlue']I really don't think Rockstar or Take2 gives a shit about either game anymore. They've given no marketing at all to Manhunt 2, and since the delay for GTAIV, they haven't done a single thing to keep people hyped up about the game.

I mean obviously they need these games to make money but they really must have fired their entire marketing team.[/QUOTE]

GTA IV hypes itself. They don't need to market it.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']I mean obviously they need these games to make money but they really must have fired their entire marketing team.[/quote]

Considering that quite a few of Take 2's executives are under investigation right now, the marketing team is the least of their worries.

As for stores banning it, is Best Buy & Circuit City still carrying it?
 
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