Terri Schiavo's parents don't believe autopsy results

E-Z-B

CAGiversary!
POSTED: 2:57 pm EDT June 15, 2005

TAMPA, Fla. -- The attorney for Terri Schiavo's parents says they continue to believe their daughter was not in a persistent vegetative state, despite the results of an autopsy.

David Gibbs said Bob and Mary Schindler plan to discuss the autopsy with other medical experts and may take some unspecified legal action. The Schindlers fought their son-in-law in court over their daughter's fate for nearly seven years.

schiavo's family has accused her husband of abusing her, which he denies. They also said she was minimally conscious, but the autopsy released Wednesday backed up the contention of Schiavo's husband that she was in a persistent vegetative state.

It found that she had massive and irreversible brain damage, and that she was blind. The autopsy also found that her brain was about half of normal size when she died.

The medical examiner found no evidence that she was strangled or otherwise abused. The autopsy autopsy concluded that Schiavo did not suffer any trauma before her 1990 collapse when she lapsed into a vegetative state after her heart stopped beating for several minutes.

The medical examiner, Jon Thogmartin, said Wednesday that no trauma was noted on any of the numerous exams in the days after, weeks after or months after the collapse. No evidence of strangulation was found and her heart was normal. She died of "marked dehydration," she did not starve to death, Thogmartin said. He said she suffered no neglect or abuse. He also said she did not appear to have suffered a heart attack.

Testimony in a 1992 civil trial indicated that Schiavo probably was suffering from an eating disorder that led to a severe chemical imbalance and a heart attack. But Thogmartin said today it was unlikely her low potassium level was caused by an eating disorder.

Thogmartin said her brain was "profoundly atrophied" -- and that the damage was "irreversible." He also said, "The vision centers of her brain were dead" -- meaning she was blind. He said no amount of therapy could have reversed her condition.


http://www.nbc6.net/dianagonzalez/4613101/detail.html

This disputes what the parents claimed about Terri Schiavo being able to follow people with her eyes in her room. Denial, selfishness, and manipulation, all the hallmarks of a dysfunctional family -- thank God she had a loving husband to respect her wishes despite the manipulative efforts of her lying parents.

Looks like chimpy still stands by his opinion that she should've been kept alive:


White House: autopsy doesn't change Bush's views on Schiavo case

WHITE HOUSE The White House says today's autopsy report doesn't change President Bush's view on the Terri Schiavo (SHY'-voh) case.

Spokesman Scott McClellan says the president opposed the removal of her feeding tube because he thinks Americans should "stand on the side of defending ... life."

A county medical examiner's report backed the contention of Schiavo's husband that she was in a vegetative state, and her brain damage was irreversible.

Bush interrupted a stay at his Texas ranch to fly back to Washington and sign a bill authorizing federal judges to intervene in the case. Despite the legislation, they declined to do so, and she died March 31st.

McClellan called Schiavo's a "sad case" -- but said Bush believes he was right to side with her parents, who wanted to keep her alive.


http://www.wpri.com/Global/story.asp?S=3478775

dubya-schiavo-prayer.jpg
 
A friend of mine (my office mate) just posted a review of George H. Smith's (1989) Atheism: The Case Against God on his blog. He cites one significant quote (while criticizing the author for not getting to this point sooner in the text):

"Before discussing any theist’s claim to rationality, the following question must be asked: “If your arguments are shown to be incorrect, will you relinquish your belief in god?” If the answer is “no” - as it often is - then any further discussion with this person is a waste of time. Any claim to rationality or concern with truth is mere pretense on his part, since he is indifferent to the validity of his arguments. This, to put it mildly, is hypocrisy” (p. 227)

I think this speaks perfectly to the kind of mindset the Schiavos and other religious essentialists live in.

myke.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']A friend of mine (my office mate) just posted a review of George H. Smith's (1989) Atheism: The Case Against God on his blog. He cites one significant quote (while criticizing the author for not getting to this point sooner in the text):

"Before discussing any theist’s claim to rationality, the following question must be asked: “If your arguments are shown to be incorrect, will you relinquish your belief in god?” If the answer is “no” - as it often is - then any further discussion with this person is a waste of time. Any claim to rationality or concern with truth is mere pretense on his part, since he is indifferent to the validity of his arguments. This, to put it mildly, is hypocrisy” (p. 227)

I think this speaks perfectly to the kind of mindset the Schiavos and other religious essentialists live in.

myke.[/QUOTE]

How can you show a religious belief to be incorrect? It's called faith for a reason. Logic isn't part of it.
 
[quote name='Backlash']How can you show a religious belief to be incorrect? It's called faith for a reason. Logic isn't part of it.[/QUOTE]

Umm...read the book? :lol:

I'm sure there's a way, but my brain's turned off at the moment.

myke.
...nothing unusual, ha ha.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Umm...read the book? :lol:

I'm sure there's a way, but my brain's turned off at the moment.

myke.
...nothing unusual, ha ha.[/QUOTE]

God can only be proved, it can't be disproved. If I say there's an alternative dimension where everyone can fly, no one can possibly disprove that. They can tell me I'm crazy, but can't prove I'm wrong.
 
They got proven wrong and will die beleiving they were right. Some people you just can't sway to the way of reason. Also E-Z-B Bloom County kicks ass
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']God can only be proved, it can't be disproved. If I say there's an alternative dimension where everyone can fly, no one can possibly disprove that. They can tell me I'm crazy, but can't prove I'm wrong.[/QUOTE]

God can neither be proven or disproven. Faith is what defines the existence of God in one person's mind. Collective faith becomes organized religion or a cult.

And, yes, we can think you are crazy for believing in an alternate dimension where you can fly, but we will KNOW you are crazy if you try to fly in this one.
 
[quote name='shajek']God can neither be proven or disproven. Faith is what defines the existence of God in one person's mind. Collective faith becomes organized religion or a cult.

And, yes, we can think you are crazy for believing in an alternate dimension where you can fly, but we will KNOW you are crazy if you try to fly in this one.[/QUOTE]

Well, if you could find god then you could prove god(s) exists, or at least the being who behaves like a god. Though, people did try to fly in this one and eventually people figured out how.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Well, if you could find god then you could prove god(s) exists, or at least the being who behaves like a god. Though, people did try to fly in this one and eventually people figured out how.[/QUOTE]

True, but I was figuring that your alternate dimension was filled with people who could fly without the aid of a machine.
 
Because we all know that celebrity lawyers watching videos can give a better medical opinion than a doctor who performed an autopsy.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']"Before discussing any theist’s claim to rationality, the following question must be asked: “If your arguments are shown to be incorrect, will you relinquish your belief in god?” If the answer is “no” - as it often is - then any further discussion with this person is a waste of time. Any claim to rationality or concern with truth is mere pretense on his part, since he is indifferent to the validity of his arguments. This, to put it mildly, is hypocrisy” (p. 227)[/QUOTE]

Note regarding the above discussion: the quote in question doesn't say 'if god is proven to not exist', only that people's reasons for believing in god can be disproven.

Most people say they believe in god because of X, Y, and Z (insert whatever standard arguments you want - the universe is too complex to have occured by random chance, a friend of theirs was really sick but got better so it had to be a miracle, etc, etc.) Those are rational reasons for believing in god - "God exists because I think he does, so there" isn't. Most people don't like the irrational argument because, well, it makes them look irrational (or perhaps more accurately, reveals that they are irrational), so they use the rational beliefs as evidence of the existance of god. If you can disprove the reasons they give for their belief, and they would still believe, then the person isn't willing to engage in rational discussion on the subject, so it isn't worth it to engage in the discussion in the first place.
 
[quote name='shajek']True, but I was figuring that your alternate dimension was filled with people who could fly without the aid of a machine.[/QUOTE]

Well, hot air ballons and hang gliders (though not technically flight) aren't machines.
 
I feel for her parents for the loss of their daughter, but they are in denial and need some serious therapy to accept her death. Of course they have been given false hope for years by all the anti-abortion zealots who just wanted to exploit Terry.
 
Looks like Michael Schiavo buried Terri in Clearwater, FL afterall which is what her parents wanted all along. Guess what? Her parents are STILL bitching, suprise, suprise:

Terri Schiavo's Remains Buried In Clearwater
-----------------
POSTED: 10:13 pm EDT June 20, 2005
-----------------
TAMPA, Fla. -- Terri Schiavo's husband buried her cremated remains in a Clearwater cemetery Monday, inscribing on her bronze grave marker that "I kept my promise."

David Gibbs, an attorney for the woman's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, said inscribing the marker that way was a nasty political statement by Michael Schiavo, who held the service and burial Monday before telling her family.

"Obviously, that's a real shot and another unkind act toward a grieving mom and dad," Gibbs said.

A service at the cemetery was officiated by a priest, the statement said. Michael Schiavo and at least one his brothers attended.

"Mrs. Schiavo's parents, as ordered by the court, have been advised of the exact location of Mrs. Schiavo's site," Felos' statement said.


http://www.local6.com/news/4632350/detail.html

050621_schiavo_vmed_5a.hmedium.jpg


more here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8299372/
 
[quote name='Kayden']May I be the first to say (again), WHO GIVES A fuck!?[/QUOTE]

Apparently, the governor of Florida does, since he's opening a criminal investigation into Michael Schiavo.
 
I'm not sure how to take the "I kept my promise", is it a sincere olive branch to the family, or a sarcastic comment unbefitting a tombstone. I'll never know.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']I'm not sure how to take the "I kept my promise", is it a sincere olive branch to the family, or a sarcastic comment unbefitting a tombstone. I'll never know.[/QUOTE]
I don't think there's any way to take it as an olive branch to the family. The best-case-scenario is that its a message to Terri (rather like a 'I'll love you forever' or something.) I would lean towards the sarcastic interpretation, myself, but to be perfectly honest, I think he deserves it.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']I'm not sure how to take the "I kept my promise", is it a sincere olive branch to the family, or a sarcastic comment unbefitting a tombstone. I'll never know.[/QUOTE]

I would say neither. If they truly agreed to do what he claims she wanted, then he remained faithful to the very end (beyond the very end) and used the tombstone to remind others of that.
 
Wether or not she was in a vegitative state, the husband has handled her death all wrong.

What a prick! Holding a ceremony and not telling her parents. Only telling them where she's buried, after the fact.

Yeah, he's a freakin saint. "I kept my promise" Are you kidding me? What a pious fucker.
 
[quote name='Derwood43']Wether or not she was in a vegitative state, the husband has handled her death all wrong.

What a prick! Holding a ceremony and not telling her parents. Only telling them where she's buried, after the fact.

Yeah, he's a freakin saint. "I kept my promise" Are you kidding me? What a pious fucker.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, they've only been accusing him of abusing her for the last decade. He should be more forgiving. :roll:
 
[quote name='Derwood43']Wether or not she was in a vegitative state, the husband has handled her death all wrong.

What a prick! Holding a ceremony and not telling her parents. Only telling them where she's buried, after the fact.

Yeah, he's a freakin saint. "I kept my promise" Are you kidding me? What a pious fucker.[/QUOTE]

Should we have let her clearly bonkers parents call up Randall Terry so they can begin the resuscitation (sp?) attempts?

myke.
...given the parents' disposition, in conjunction with the media interest (it's still there), I'd tell everyone else after the funeral, too.
 
[quote name='Derwood43']Wether or not she was in a vegitative state, the husband has handled her death all wrong.

What a prick! Holding a ceremony and not telling her parents. Only telling them where she's buried, after the fact.

Yeah, he's a freakin saint. "I kept my promise" Are you kidding me? What a pious fucker.[/QUOTE]


The parents have been in attack mode since day 1. They've consistently lied about how he abused her, caused her coma, created fake media clips where it looks like she's watching people in the room (despite the fact that she was blind), and demanded he divorce her despite their "catholic beliefs". They even got right-wing conservative politicians to try to intervene in what should have been a family decision for the Schiavos, Michael and Terri. Michael Schiavo fought long and hard to bring peace to her, where the parents were intent on using her as a political pawn, as evident at the anti-abortion protest where they spoke last Sunday. I don't blame Michael Schiavo for not having the Schindlers attend the ceremony - they didn't love their daughter anyway.
 
[quote name='Derwood43']Wether or not she was in a vegitative state, the husband has handled her death all wrong.

What a prick! Holding a ceremony and not telling her parents. Only telling them where she's buried, after the fact.

Yeah, he's a freakin saint. "I kept my promise" Are you kidding me? What a pious fucker.[/QUOTE]

Based off the little I know... I'd say he's more than justified in keeping the publicity whore parents in the dark. The probably would have run off with the coffin screaming, "she's not dead, she feels happy!"
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Should we have let her clearly bonkers parents call up Randall Terry so they can begin the resuscitation (sp?) attempts?

myke.
...given the parents' disposition, in conjunction with the media interest (it's still there), I'd tell everyone else after the funeral, too.[/QUOTE]

Why do you always put your name in the middle of your comment and also put ellipses before your last comment? Maybe not always, but 90% of the time.
 
[quote name='Backlash']Why do you always put your name in the middle of your comment and also put ellipses before your last comment? Maybe not always, but 90% of the time.[/QUOTE]

96%. And habit. ;)

myke.
...people bring this up alot; 'taint that bigga deal, is it?
 
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