The 2008 MLB Season Thread (Update: Phillies Won)

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I am not saying zink will be the replacement when wake is done, but he was facing one of the toughest lineups in baseball in his first major league start. He also was pitching on 3 days rest. Francona said he has done it a lot, but in the past 2 years he has done it 1 or 2 times, so it hasn't happened a lot, and we don't know how he did in those short rest outings.

As for bowden and letting him get more polished I dunno if I like that. Buckholz was pitching poor before he went on the DL at the begining of the season, and they still turned to masterson rather then go with guys that have had some MLB experiance. Players like abe alvarez, dervin hackensack, and david pauley.

So far lowrie is play good at ss. I wonder how much of an issue it will be for lugo to come back and be a bench player that will most likely be used primarily as a pinch runner. Besides hitting well, lowrie defensive skills are a lot better then what was projected. No his range isn't great, but it isn't as small as was claimed. He fields everything fairly cleanly and has done a solid job at plugging the hole in the middle of the field that lugo was.
 
speaking of manny, I wonder how much longer before the dodgers get sick of him. It appears torre is not happy with him not trimming down his dreads, and then being in the clubhouse at the start of an inn when he should have been in the OF.
 
Contracts should have more stat stipulations. IE. if you hit .400 one month then you get a quart of a million bonus, or something like that. People would play a lot harder. The only reason Manny is playing this hard is because he wants to cash in on a big contract from some idiot GM, just like the guy on ESPN said.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']speaking of manny, I wonder how much longer before the dodgers get sick of him. It appears torre is not happy with him not trimming down his dreads, and then being in the clubhouse at the start of an inn when he should have been in the OF.[/QUOTE]
Frank McCourt laughs about the dreads. Then he thinks about the 30,000 tickets that were sold in the 1st 30 hours after the trade and laughs some more. Then he thinks about the check he isn't writing to Manny and starts all over again.

And hey, I sure wouldn't want to face them in the first round. If Kershaw tames that curveball, that's a vicious little staff right there.
 
when manny is happy he is great, when manny isn't happy then things aren't so nice for the clubhouse. What if manny throws another fit, and causes issues in the dodgers clubhouse and you don't make the playoffs?
 
Not gonna happen. It's bad for Manny, bad for the Dodgers, bad for the owner, and probably most importantly, bad for Scott Boras. No way he implodes... this year. I don't really see us keeping him past that. And the Dodgers weren't seriously entertaining the idea of making the playoffs not so long ago. He's pounding the cover off the ball and Jeff Kent is suddenly batting over .400 hitting in front of him.

Can't hate on that.
 
[quote name='speedracer']Not gonna happen. It's bad for Manny, bad for the Dodgers, bad for the owner, and probably most importantly, bad for Scott Boras. No way he implodes... this year. I don't really see us keeping him past that. And the Dodgers weren't seriously entertaining the idea of making the playoffs not so long ago. He's pounding the cover off the ball and Jeff Kent is suddenly batting over .400 hitting in front of him.

Can't hate on that.[/quote]


you never know with Manny Ramirez. He can implode any time he wants. wait till he gets comfortable and than..he blows up.
 
He really ties you guys up in knots like that?

This is a guy that all he's done is bat a million (including a zillion with men in scoring position) for a team that desperately needed a big bat. We're talking about two months here. He's not a building block. He's not the future.

Why people have such a strong opinion about Manny at this point I don't know. Hell, I thought it sucked that Boston wasn't willing to give the guy a straight answer on the club option.

He blows up. The result? Dodgers don't make the playoffs. And? No one will care.

And if you're rooting against him because you think the way it was done was crap, well, this happens in sports every day in this world. I have difficulty in particular feeling sorry for the Sox, tampering jerks that they are.
 
I am happy he is gone and good luck to him. The fact that he bitched slapped a traveling secretary, and kevin youkillis did he really need it in witting that the boston redsox didn't want him back. Shit they put him on waivers a couple years ago, and would have let him walk for free an no one wanted him.

He is a selfish boy. He isn't a man, and he does what he wants when he wants. Yes he can hit, but he can't hit top tier pitching anymore. As peter gammons said 2 years ago, he is crushing mediocre pitching that make mistakes. The past 2 years he has had a combined 36 or so At bats in the month of sept. Last year the redsox were in a battle for first place in the AL east. The year before he left his good friend and teamate without protection as ortiz was trying to set the redsox record for homers in a season. He broke a record set in 1938 without manny batting behind him. You don't do that to your teamates/friends as they try to win the AL east/make the playoffs/ or set club records.

By the sounds of, you might be fine with it. Boston, NY, and phillie fans are a bit more involved with there teams then most cities are. The dodgers made a hell of a deal to aquire him. As for the team letting him know if they were going to pick up the options. Even if they did, do you really think that he is going to get more then $20 mill per season. Most analyst have him around $45 mill for 3 years. Shit he would have made $40 in boston for 2 years.
 
Cliff Lee continues to be one of the few bright spots in a fairly shitty Indians season.

[quote name='ryanbph']By the sounds of, you might be fine with it. Boston, NY, and phillie fans are a bit more involved with there teams then most cities are.[/quote]
:roll:
 
I wasn't speaking for all fans, but typically when a new ballplayer comes to boston/ny/philly the biggest question is how they will react to the fans. Yes every mlb team has diehard fans, I wasn't saying they didn't. But the amount of hardcore/intense fans is greater in the cities of philly/ny/boston.

As for lee, it is sorta of suprising. He was bad last year, and he had some instance when he got yanked from a game at home. I had him on my fantasy team last year, assuming that clevand would be good and with his past performances would be a solid late draft pick for a pitcher. He was horrible and I stayed away from him this season....son of a bitch.
 
This offseason, Yankees fans said the Twins were crazy not to want Melky Cabrera as the centerpiece of the Santana deal... Maybe he'll hit above the Mendoza line in AAA.


For me, Manny's off field issues were nothing until the thing with the traveling secretary. Before that, no problem at all, there have been far worse jerks on the Sox throughout Manny's entire stay in Boston (Carl Everett, Mike Lansing, Shea Hillenbrand, Jose Offerman, Orlando Cabrera, Dante Bichette, Rickey Henderson, Rey Sanchez, Julio Lugo, Wilfredo Cordero, Nomar, etc). But, it was probably the right time to trade him with diminishing returns on the field, and increasing problems in the clubhouse.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']He is a selfish boy. He isn't a man, and he does what he wants when he wants. Yes he can hit, but he can't hit top tier pitching anymore. As peter gammons said 2 years ago, he is crushing mediocre pitching that make mistakes. The past 2 years he has had a combined 36 or so At bats in the month of sept. Last year the redsox were in a battle for first place in the AL east. The year before he left his good friend and teamate without protection as ortiz was trying to set the redsox record for homers in a season. He broke a record set in 1938 without manny batting behind him. You don't do that to your teamates/friends as they try to win the AL east/make the playoffs/ or set club records.[/quote]
It's difficult to take the Sox management seriously when they're so often involved in shady stuff. How'd you get JD Drew again? Didn't he have a responsibility to the Dodgers, his teammates, his fans?

By the sounds of, you might be fine with it. The dodgers made a hell of a deal to aquire him.
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And that's all it really comes down to for us. We have a slugger that someone else is paying for. Can't beat that with a stick.

I hope Manny doesn't get the money, simply because he isn't worth it. Lord knows the Dodgers know what an uninspired, uninterested 18 million dollar outfielder looks like already.
Boston, NY, and phillie fans are a bit more involved with there teams then most cities are.
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It gets tiring being told by ESPN and the entire northeast every year in every sport that their fans are better. It's a myth.
 
I just love how when all is good you hear, "It's just Manny being Manny," but when things get bad he is a prick or a boy. I don't agree with the way he handled things,but he has seen the way the Red Sox have dealt with others in the past and looked out for himself. As with most teams, he's always a great guy when he is on your team, but when he leaves, he is an A-hole.
 
without a doubt there are a ton of people in new england that forgave manny for everything he did, but there were some that didn't like it. I have never been a fan for the way he acted. It is a bad precedent to set when you have a roster full of young players. Shit look how pablebon acted this offseason wanting more money.


[quote name='speedracer']It's difficult to take the Sox management seriously when they're so often involved in shady stuff. How'd you get JD Drew again? Didn't he have a responsibility to the Dodgers, his teammates, his fans?



It gets tiring being told by ESPN and the entire northeast every year in every sport that their fans are better. It's a myth.[/quote]


Drew played hard to the end of the seaosn and then opted out of his contract. Arod did the same thing, and aj burnett will most likely do the same. You can compare a guy who is silent (jd drew) and plays to the end of the season and then opts out to a guy that caused a big drama in the clubhouse. It is apples and oranges.

I never said we are better fans. You said yourself, no big deal if the dodgers don't make the playoffs. We don't look at it that way. We want our teams to be in the playoffs every year. The sox have the highest tix in the mlb currently and a very small ballpark. It isn't easy to come across tix. Do you really think that redsox fans would have been alright with it if we had kept manny, he continued his drama in the clubhouse and then we didn't make the playoffs.

Look at players like kenny rogers, who wilted under the pressure of NY, and then went back to be a top lefty pitcher. Look at what jimmy rollins recently said about the fans in philly. Every redsox player, and the opposing players say playing a game in the begining of the season in fenway has playoff like atmosphere. It isn't made up, when opposing players talk about it.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']without a doubt there are a ton of people in new england that forgave manny for everything he did, but there were some that didn't like it. I have never been a fan for the way he acted. It is a bad precedent to set when you have a roster full of young players. Shit look how pablebon acted this offseason wanting more money.[/quote]
He's probably worth whatever he's asking for.

Drew played hard to the end of the seaosn and then opted out of his contract after the Red Sox contacted JD Drew and negotiated his contract with him, contingent on his opting out, while he was still in a Dodger uniform.
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FTFY.

The analogy I'm trying to draw is that Manny doesn't feel beholden to the rules of baseball. In a particular sense, neither do the Sox. It's hard to feel sorry for them and their fans when they don't care when their team dogs others, but one guy doesn't want to show up for work and suddenly the Sox are the paragon of the blue collar ethos.

I never said we are better fans. You said yourself, no big deal if the dodgers don't make the playoffs. We don't look at it that way. We want our teams to be in the playoffs every year. The sox have the highest tix in the mlb currently and a very small ballpark. It isn't easy to come across tix.
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I meant that the Dodgers wouldn't have been heartbroken had they missed the playoffs this year, with a new coach and a hard luck year with over $80 million on the disabled list.


Do you really think that redsox fans would have been alright with it if we had kept manny, he continued his drama in the clubhouse and then we didn't make the playoffs.
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I was raised on the belief that you never look a gift horse in the mouth.

Every redsox player, and the opposing players say playing a game in the begining of the season in fenway has playoff like atmosphere. It isn't made up, when opposing players talk about it.
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Perhaps my memory is longer. I remember not so long ago, you couldn't give away Sox tickets.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']Yes every mlb team has diehard fans, I wasn't saying they didn't. But the amount of retarded loudmouths is greater in the cities of philly/ny/boston. [/quote]

Fixed.
 
Mets are in first by 2 games! They are 11 games over .500 the most they have been all year. I am happy right now that they are beating the teams they should be beating (Washington, Pittsburgh etc.). The only bad news right now is Wagner felt some discomfort in his elbow after throwing a simulated game. The Mets will not make the playoffs if they do not have him back soon.
 
DomLando, on behalf of the Dodgers, you're welcome :D

We're stickin it to the Brewers now too (last night sucked though). I can't wait to see how we do against the Mets, Cubs, and D-bags the rest of the way.

What's everyone opinion on the value of K-Rod in the offseason?
 
[quote name='speedracer']He's probably worth whatever he's asking for.


FTFY.

The analogy I'm trying to draw is that Manny doesn't feel beholden to the rules of baseball. In a particular sense, neither do the Sox. It's hard to feel sorry for them and their fans when they don't care when their team dogs others, but one guy doesn't want to show up for work and suddenly the Sox are the paragon of the blue collar ethos.


I meant that the Dodgers wouldn't have been heartbroken had they missed the playoffs this year, with a new coach and a hard luck year with over $80 million on the disabled list.



I was raised on the belief that you never look a gift horse in the mouth.


Perhaps my memory is longer. I remember not so long ago, you couldn't give away Sox tickets.[/quote]


Alright, does pablebon deserve to be paid well without a doubt. The one thing I HATE about a lot of pro athletes is when you sign a contract out of college you play that out. You will get your payday, but don't whine and bitch about being paid a small salary when you have 2 years left on your original contract that you signed. I have never heard kevin youkillis bitch and moan about how little he gets.

As far as the sox tampering, I haven't heard anything to say that happen. Maybe it did, but my opinion on the matter is that boras opted him out of his contract, realised there wasn't a market for him, and held the redsox hostage on the dice k contract. The drew/dice k signings all happened rather close to each other. I would argue that pretty much everyteam has done something with which someone could construe as shaddy.


Have I mentioned anywhere on the blue collar work ethic or morality of the redsox, no you seem to have anger towards the redsox because you feel they stole drew from you. Yes the sox have done shitty things to other teams over the past few years (ie taking millar before he went to japan, not making the shoppach deal with COL at the deadline) No one asked you to feel sorry for sox fans, this whole conversation started because I said I wonder how long manny would like being in LA.

First off some of that 80 mill payroll on the DL, were bad contracts. You can't use a number of $80mill as a barometer of how much someone on the DL hurts your team. There have been a ton of teams with injuries to key players, and that is the difference between NY/Bos/Philly fans and you. We don't believe that is an excuse. We have been without lowell for a couple weeks, youkills for a couple weeks, schilling all season, big pappi for 2 months, wakefield is currently on the DL, our #5 starters have been off/on the Dl all season, as you know jd drew misses games frequently with tightness. The Rays have lost a shitload of players to injuries, the yanks have lost a shitload to injuries it happens.

Yeah about a decade ago sox tix were a lot easier to come by. Pretty much every since the new ownership has come into town they have been sold out.
 
krod easily will get 15mill...he is having a career season, possible the best closing season in mlb history and he is younger then mariano rivera. I would think he would easily get 15mill. The question is, is there a team with that much money to waste with a need of a closer.

Teams with money to spend on a closer most likely have one. The redsox, yank and cubs all have solid closers. Maybe with wagner hurt and possibly not as effective as he has been the mets might be interested.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']Alright, does pablebon deserve to be paid well without a doubt. The one thing I HATE about a lot of pro athletes is when you sign a contract out of college you play that out. You will get your payday, but don't whine and bitch about being paid a small salary when you have 2 years left on your original contract that you signed. I have never heard kevin youkillis bitch and moan about how little he gets.[/quote]
It drives me nuts too dude. For sure. Then again, I have a friend that screams about how everyone seems to continually support owners at the expense of their players come contract time. Both our teams are facing that right now with Papelbon and Matt Kemp being worth drastically more than we pay them. I've always wondered why there isn't more of an effort on the part of owners to lock up the young guy when it's clear they're a unique talent. I'da been signing Papelbon long term after that first year... at least a 4-5 year deal to keep em happy.

As far as the sox tampering, I haven't heard anything to say that happen. Maybe it did, but my opinion on the matter is that boras opted him out of his contract, realised there wasn't a market for him, and held the redsox hostage on the dice k contract. The drew/dice k signings all happened rather close to each other. I would argue that pretty much everyteam has done something with which someone could construe as shaddy.
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Agreed.

Have I mentioned anywhere on the blue collar work ethic or morality of the redsox, no you seem to have anger towards the redsox because you feel they stole drew from you. Yes the sox have done shitty things to other teams over the past few years (ie taking millar before he went to japan, not making the shoppach deal with COL at the deadline) No one asked you to feel sorry for sox fans, this whole conversation started because I said I wonder how long manny would like being in LA.
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I didn't mean for it to come off quite so combative. My apologies for that.

First off some of that 80 mill payroll on the DL, were bad contracts. You can't use a number of $80mill as a barometer of how much someone on the DL hurts your team. There have been a ton of teams with injuries to key players, and that is the difference between NY/Bos/Philly fans and you. We don't believe that is an excuse. We have been without lowell for a couple weeks, youkills for a couple weeks, schilling all season, big pappi for 2 months, wakefield is currently on the DL, our #5 starters have been off/on the Dl all season, as you know jd drew misses games frequently with tightness. The Rays have lost a shitload of players to injuries, the yanks have lost a shitload to injuries it happens.
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Sure, but when you lose multiple marquee players, your playoffs expectations decline. That's all I'm gettin at. Our biggest loss hasn't been Penny, Jones, or Schmidt. I think it's been Saito (see last night's loss) and Furcal, who was killing for us till he went down.

Yeah about a decade ago sox tix were a lot easier to come by. Pretty much every since the new ownership has come into town they have been sold out.
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I didn't realize ownership changed at all. Who owns em now?

And is it just me, or are closers the most overpriced commodities?
 
I guess it really isn't new ownership now. It was around 01/02 that john henry bought the team. Before that tix were a lot easier to come by.

Herny really screwed the marlins then. He was the owner of the marlins at the time he bought the redsox, and left the books in a mess.

I dunno if closers are that overpriced espically considering how much some middle relievers make. Julian tavares was making close to 3.5mill for the contract he signed with the redsox are couple years back and he was a waste of money. We also have paid decent money for hacks such as rudy seanez.

Then again 15mill for a player that might make an impact in about 50 games, compared to a fielder who makes an impact for 130 - 150 games is a steep price for a closer.

Krod is 26 or so, is one of the best closers in the game and is having a possibly record setting year. Considering Mariano got $15mill for 3 seasons at the age of 38 (and is he really that young?) I could easily see a team giving krod $15mill for 5 - 8 years. If there is a market for him, then maybe more per season. There are a couple of big name sp that are going on the market, so I wonder if the teams with money will be looking that hard at him. As most teams that are willing to spend a shitload already have a closer they are happy with.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']I guess it really isn't new ownership now. It was around 01/02 that john henry bought the team. Before that tix were a lot easier to come by. [/quote]
Depends on your age ;D

Herny really screwed the marlins then. He was the owner of the marlins at the time he bought the redsox, and left the books in a mess.
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I had no idea. I mean, it's usually ownership that destroys a team, but ouch. Fox left my Dodgers pretty rough too.

I dunno if closers are that overpriced espically considering how much some middle relievers make. Julian tavares was making close to 3.5mill for the contract he signed with the redsox are couple years back and he was a waste of money. We also have paid decent money for hacks such as rudy seanez.

Then again 15mill for a player that might make an impact in about 50 games, compared to a fielder who makes an impact for 130 - 150 games is a steep price for a closer.

Krod is 26 or so, is one of the best closers in the game and is having a possibly record setting year. Considering Mariano got $15mill for 3 seasons at the age of 38 (and is he really that young?) I could easily see a team giving krod $15mill for 5 - 8 years. If there is a market for him, then maybe more per season. There are a couple of big name sp that are going on the market, so I wonder if the teams with money will be looking that hard at him. As most teams that are willing to spend a shitload already have a closer they are happy with.
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Yep, the market is what I see holding Krod back. Having said that, I can't imagine him getting less than $10mil, probably something in the $12mil range.

Manny just crushed a low fastball to center. 3-0 Dodgers in the 1st inning. :D Oswalt absolutely killed the D-bags today too. Looking good for blue today.
 
I know theres a month and a half left in the season, but: Are the Sox trying to miss the wild card? Getting crushed by the Blue Jays was embarassing. The Twins keep winning, as do the White Sox and now both times are a half game behind the Sox. Hell, the Yankees still have a chance at this point.
 
Cubs rallied in the 7th inning against the Marlins. I'm glad the Dodgers were able to win in the bottom of the 9th after Chan Ho Park blew that 4 run lead.
 
[quote name='Monsta Mack']I know theres a month and a half left in the season, but: Are the Sox trying to miss the wild card? Getting crushed by the Blue Jays was embarassing. The Twins keep winning, as do the White Sox and now both times are a half game behind the Sox. Hell, the Yankees still have a chance at this point.[/quote]


The sox over the past couple of seasons have had a very difficult time playing the bluejays. They were about .500 vs them last year but in 06 they were 7 - 12. Roughly 7 - 11 in 2005 (I am just going thru there schedule on espn, so I am missing 2 games ) The bluejays pitching shuts us down, and there offense clubs us. Vernon wells killed us in 06. In 07 he was hurt with shoulder injuries, but vs the sox he hit in the .280's with 2 homers. In 06 he hit 8 homers (only 32 for the season) or a 1/4 of his season's homers vs the sox. Batted .338 with 22rbi's in 19 games.


In order for the redsox to take the wildcard/al east they need josh beckett to be the pitcher we had from last year instead of the guy we had in 06. He has been great on some nights, and rather piss poor on others. He needs to step up and be the ace of the staff that he is supposed to be. Based solely on this season, if we started the playoffs today he would be my #3 or #4 pitcher. Lester has been incredible, dice k has pitched effectively and has very solid stats, and tim wakefield if healthy has pitched better then beckett this season.

In his last 4 starts, he pitched 2.1 ip and gave up 8 er vs the bluejays. 8ip vs the whitesox with only 1 ER. 6.2 ip vs the royals with 2 er. 5.1ip vs teh angels with 7 er. Very hit or miss, and in order for us to make the playoffs he needs to pitch more like the whitesox outing and less like the bluejays outing.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']the dodgers picked up gregg maddux today...[/quote]

playoffs of bust for them huh.

Very Happy with Pelfry's performance today. 3 runs in 9 innings and getting out of that jam in the 6th inning. 1st complete game for the kid. He impresses me more and more this year. i hope this is just a sign of things to come from him.

tomorrow should be interesting. with hampton on the mound.
 
[quote name='integralsmatic']playoffs of bust for them huh.[/quote]
Can't say they aren't chasing it, that's for sure. Still don't see us getting through the Cubs unless they remember they're the Cubs.
 
Sheesh, Dodgers own the Phillies... then the Phillies own the Dodgers.

Diamondbacks own the Padres... and now the Padres are owning the Diamondbacks. :bomb:

We should be 5 games up by now, considering Haren/Webb took the mound last night and tonight.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']mets picked up the former rays closer, reyes. He was pretty decent a couple years back, but the rays let him go 10 days ago..[/QUOTE]

im sure enough he will make an appearance soon. The Mets bullpen has been horrific as of late and even Luis Ayala got pegged for a run tonight.

at this point, im ready to have anyone step in the pen because the current pen is just not working. Im wondering what happend to Feliciano and why he is pitching so terrible. gave up two bombs to two guys that dont hit homers, and then gives up a run in today's game. he needs to get fixed. But i mean it lies mostly on Pedro. He opened the door for them to comeback with the 5 runs he let in. Man....i hate losing to Phillies.

I hope Santana can give us a win tomorrow.
 
Big win for the BoSox last night, but not nearly as big as a sweep against the ChiSox this weekend would be. Beating the Yankees is nice, but not so much when they are almost left for dead as far as the playoffs go.

And whoever the idiot is that schedule this series at Yankee Stadium instead of the finale, which is at Fenway, should be shot. Yanks/Sox opened the Stadium and they should close it down as well.

Wow....Baltimore shuts down the Stadium, unless of course there is a rain out here and the teams opt to play it after the season finale at Fenway.
 
I can't believe it, but the Rockies are slowly creeping back into the race. They still have six games left with Arizona and three with the Dodgers. Aside from those, their last month is full of games with SF, ATL, SD, and HOU.

Both the Rockies and the Dodgers have easier schedules left than the Diamondbacks.
 
[quote name='Krams706']5 AB's is a pretty small sample size. He's better than Manny.[/QUOTE]

I cant agree with that. Ill take Manny over Arod anyday of the week. The only reason is playoffs. I can depend on Manny for the big hit or when i need a guy home..i will most likely get it. When playoff time comes for ASlob.....yeah he is a car wreck. He cant hit the broadside of the barn with the way he handles the playoffs.

You should listen to WFAN and listen to how many yankee fans are getting sick of AROD and him not coming through when you need him to. 7 outs in 5 ABs is HUGE..especially when every game is a playoff game for the yankees. He could have knocked in guys or advanced runners but he weakly got out in those abs. dont get me wrong i think Arod is a great player...i just wouldnt take him because i need a guy in the clutch and manny has been that guy from time to time.
 
Manny has 2 rings, a World Series MVP, and he hits in clutch situations. Arod can't get a hit in any meaningful situation to save his life, he's at the Mendoza line with RISP and 2 outs.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Manny has 2 rings, a World Series MVP, and he hits in clutch situations. Arod can't get a hit in any meaningful situation to save his life, he's at the Mendoza line with RISP and 2 outs.[/quote]

Don't forget the other two World Series in which he has played.
 
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