The annoying trend of XBLA games being $10

If Microsoft really is taking 60-70% of the consumer costs now, I'm shocked we're seeing as many bad Arcade titles as we are now. And those double weeks too. Why aren't devs putting their stuff on other platforms as well as XBLA to get their costs back?
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']I also have to mention something else (Was going to edit my previous post, but I'm lazy).

Another reason so few games are $5 - Analysis has shown Microsoft, which they show developers, that $5 games don't historically sell at higher volume than $10, it's about the same. So as much as many of you say you'd buy more games at $5, the numbers don't show the same for everyone else buying XBLA games.

It also doesn't help your case that the Penny Arcade game was among the best selling game ever on XBLA at $20.[/quote]
The difference, however, is that we're talking about a $10 XBLA game that has been out for a few months. Just about everyone who has wanted it will have bought it after say...6-9 months. Now, once they drop the price on a $10 XBLA game, people will still remember that it was once $10 and at $5 now, is a great deal. That's the mentality. What you're referring to is games coming out immediately at $5.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']If Microsoft really is taking 60-70% of the consumer costs now, I'm shocked we're seeing as many bad Arcade titles as we are now. And those double weeks too. Why aren't devs putting their stuff on other platforms as well as XBLA to get their costs back?[/QUOTE]

Oh trust me, they are trying to. And there is some evidence of backpedaling on a case by case basis by Microsoft on these new numbers.

As for the bad titles, my guess is that developers are running out of money faster than they thought they would during development, and can't expect to make much unless they push stuff out faster.
 
[quote name='SynGamer']The difference, however, is that we're talking about a $10 XBLA game that has been out for a few months. Just about everyone who has wanted it will have bought it after say...6-9 months. Now, once they drop the price on a $10 XBLA game, people will still remember that it was once $10 and at $5 now, is a great deal. That's the mentality. What you're referring to is games coming out immediately at $5.[/QUOTE]

Some people here are not saying that, they are saying more games should simply come out at $5 and I'm explaining why they don't.

I fully agree with you that more titles should drop in price more often.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Some people here are not saying that, they are saying more games should simply come out at $5 and I'm explaining why they don't.

I fully agree with you that more titles should drop in price more often.[/quote]
I was simply replying to what your post had stated.

"Another reason so few games are $5 - Analysis has shown Microsoft, which they show developers, that $5 games don't historically sell at higher volume than $10, it's about the same. So as much as many of you say you'd buy more games at $5, the numbers don't show the same for everyone else buying XBLA games."

Quoted from your post above (or below depending on how you have the forums setup). I explained why they should come out at $10 and then drop to $5, as most business do with every other product on the market(s). I have to agree with people who want games to come out at $5 rather than $10...some XBLA games just aren't worth $10...i'd venture to say many of them aren't considering we can't trade these games or sell them.
 
[quote name='SynGamer']
Quoted from your post above (or below depending on how you have the forums setup). I explained why they should come out at $10 and then drop to $5, as most business do with every other product on the market(s). I have to agree with people who want games to come out at $5 rather than $10...some XBLA games just aren't worth $10...i'd venture to say many of them aren't considering we can't trade these games or sell them.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree they should drop to $5 after debuting at $10 more often.

However, if it's pretty much guaranteed that all games drop to $5 after a while, how many people will just wait for that? Very few of us are hotly anticipating XBLA games enough to pay $10 at launch versus waiting 6 months or so and pay $5.
 
[quote name='Cyb3-rr']Rare designed the avatars, and they aren't working on the actual Live interface. So there wasn't really any dev time stolen. Also, most of the issues (including organization) should be fixed with the fall update.[/quote]


Good to know. Here's hoping the Fall update fulfills wants.

[quote name='thrustbucket']I totally agree they should drop to $5 after debuting at $10 more often.

However, if it's pretty much guaranteed that all games drop to $5 after a while, how many people will just wait for that? Very few of us are hotly anticipating XBLA games enough to pay $10 at launch versus waiting 6 months or so and pay $5.[/quote]


Also, if price drops were near guaranteed after a few months into an XBLA game's life, it would haphazardly extend its online multiplayer play, as more people would be online playing the title.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']I totally agree they should drop to $5 after debuting at $10 more often.

However, if it's pretty much guaranteed that all games drop to $5 after a while, how many people will just wait for that? Very few of us are hotly anticipating XBLA games enough to pay $10 at launch versus waiting 6 months or so and pay $5.[/quote]
I suggested 6-9 months, but would likely guess 9+ months to be the length of time before an XBLA game is considered for a price drop. But as for how many people would wait...if the developers make the game(s) good like they should be, then people will buy them at $10. Just like regular people who will buy a game for $60 when it comes out while others wait for a price drop. No difference really, those who want the game(s) will buy at launch, the rest will wait.

Better yet, look at it like this...assume both games are well received, but nothing great.

Game A costs $10, will not price drop
Game B costs $10, will have a price drop

Game A is bought by 100,000 people during its first year and is then dropped from XBLA for not selling enough.

Game B is bought by 100,00 people during its first year. The game receives a price drop down to $5 and over the next 6 months the game sells 50,000.

These numbers are made up, but the situation shows that people will still buy the game(s) when they are launched, just like they do now.
 
[quote name='chasemurata']Also, if price drops were near guaranteed after a few months into an XBLA game's life, it would haphazardly extend its online multiplayer play, as more people would be online playing the title.[/quote]
Great point, thought i'd like to point out the price drops won't come for at least 6 months, if not longer...i look at the 9 month period for the PS2's 'Greatest Hits' titles as a realistic gauge for price drops. But still, i would say that just as the games multiplayer is starting to decrease, a price drop would easily resurrect it.
 
Here is the site for XBLA sales numbers.

http://news.vgchartz.com/news.php?id=1552

My guess is unless they drop the price of Penny, and it jumps big time, it will end up about 40th all time for dollars brought in, and 70-80th all time for downloads. Now if they drop it to 10 bucks, I would guess that would change.
 
There are a lot of games that people would buy at $5 even with poor reviews. I can justify buying a game for $5 instead of $10.

Also if after a set amount of time, a game were to drop in price, devs would start seeing sales again. The profit may not be there but devs would see money later in a digital releases life.

Example of this, If Shrek is $10 now and has sold 30,000 units, Devs would have $90,000 according to everyone's stats. Now if you dropped the price to $5 and 20,000 units are sold, the devs would see $30,000 that they might not have ever seen before.
 
Just as a side note, be prepared to pay at least $15 for Castle Crashers. I have no inside information on this but given how well that game has tracked, they'd be dumb not to (even if I hope it's $10).
 
I just played that dodge ball arcade game and thought it was decent but thought it was 400. Brought up the guide and it said 800 and I laughed, wtf no way. Yea it's kinda the walmart method, have lower prices and sell more. That's what they need to do and dev would still make a profit.
 
I agree with everyone that the prices on Xbox Live Arcade games are way too high, right now I have 6100 points but I just don't want to buy anything at the current prices. There are many games that I would of bought if released for 400 points.

If the rumored 70% Microsoft XBLA cut is true I just feel bad for developers. I just don't understand why developers continue to make games for the service when Microsoft takes such a big cut. Maybe 30% would be accectable (and I believe that's in line with Nintendo's Wiiware cut, and I believe that's about the cut Apple gets from iTunes sales).

[quote name='SynGamer']Two things...

1. MS needs to give us the ability to gift points to friends. I will guarantee you that sales would double, if not triple, after this were to be implemented.
[/quote]
The fact that you can't gift games to friends is a joke. I can gift Virtual Console and Wiiware games to my friends but Microsoft can't pull it off on Xbox Live? :bs:
 
[quote name='Kaijufan']

The fact that you can't gift games to friends is a joke. I can gift Virtual Console and Wiiware games to my friends but Microsoft can't pull it off on Xbox Live? :bs:[/quote]

Yea i would love to gift games to people. Especially as a joke, Gift them some crappy game. :lol:
 
I don't really buy much of anything because of the high prices. If I am going to spend 800 points it has to be something top shelf like Rez, Bomberman, or Puzzle Fighter.

I am not too happy about the price of the Halo 3 map packs either.
 
I think it's ridiculous to charge 1200 points for the classic games that sell for $4 at Gamestop. I love Crimson Skies but there's no way a virtual copy is worth $15.

I'm in the same boat with everyone else. I'd buy a couple things for 400 points that I won't buy for 800. I've never spent a point on the service because I don't see the value in anything that's being provided. I'd get Rez or Ikaruga but I already have the disc copies of those games so it's silly to pay to play games I already have just for achievements.
 
Everyone is complaining about "high" XBLA prices when they forget that these games cost the same amount on PSN, and sometimes DOUBLE on PC.

[quote name='depascal22']I'd get Rez or Ikaruga but I already have the disc copies of those games so it's silly to pay to play games I already have just for achievements.[/QUOTE]

The XBLA versions of those games are in 720p with 5.1 surround sound, plus online co-op for Ikaruga. Yeah, that's just plain silly.
 
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[quote name='thrustbucket']Just as a side note, be prepared to pay at least $15 for Castle Crashers. I have no inside information on this but given how well that game has tracked, they'd be dumb not to (even if I hope it's $10).[/quote]

If that is the case, then they have lost my business.

EDIT: Why buy a game a 2nd time, even if it's better? Especially if you can still play it. Even if it has extra features, it's not worth it.
 
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[quote name='KingBroly']If that is the case, then they have lost my business.

EDIT: Why buy a game a 2nd time, even if it's better? Especially if you can still play it. Even if it has extra features, it's not worth it.[/QUOTE]


You've already answered your own question. Why wouldn't I want a better version of a game I loved? (some exclusions apply)
 
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[quote name='deadgopher']Everyone is complaining about "high" XBLA prices when they forget that these games cost the same amount on PSN, and sometimes DOUBLE on PC.
[/quote]

Everyone is complaining about the XBLA because nobody plays games on the PS3 or PC.

;)

I'd certainly impulse buy more games at $5. My library of XBLA games is mainly freebies (from promotions, etc.) or 400 point games.
 
[quote name='Strider Turbulence']You've already answered your own question. Why wouldn't I want a better version of a game I loved? (some exclusions apply)[/quote]

Because I don't wanna spend $10 for a game I already have a working version of. 720p, so what? Most retro games on XBLA have the filter that make them look terrible (Eagle vision ftl). 5.1, well, I don't have 5.1, and most people don't so that's out the window as well. Achievements aren't worth it, especially if I already have everything unlocked in that older version. Buying a game a 2nd time is one thing, but when you have a working version on site, buying it again is stupid.

Oh, and when it's $10 and the game has less features (Soul Calibur), screw that.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']Because I don't wanna spend $10 for a game I already have a working version of. 720p, so what? Most retro games on XBLA have the filter that make them look terrible (Eagle vision ftl). 5.1, well, I don't have 5.1, and most people don't so that's out the window as well. Achievements aren't worth it, especially if I already have everything unlocked in that older version. Buying a game a 2nd time is one thing, but when you have a working version on site, buying it again is stupid.

Oh, and when it's $10 and the game has less features (Soul Calibur), screw that.[/quote]
QFT
 
[quote name='Rig']Everyone is complaining about the XBLA because nobody plays games on the PS3 or PC.[/quote]

:lol:

if i created a topic about reg 360/ps3 games being overpriced and that they should be $40 would i get the same response? wasn't superman on 360 (considered one of the worst games) $60 at some point? most shitty games start $60, y not complain that they should be $30 at release? I personally have no problem with the pricing seeing as $10 for a digital dl is reasonable... $5 of course is better but wouldn't the drinks from starbucks taste better @ $1? and i agree shitty games like that dodgeball game @ $10 is terrible but here's what i do... wait for it... I don't buy it :hot:

anywho i think a better idea to the whole delisting strategy is to lower the prices (i.e. clearance like) to maybe 200 points... i'd sure consider a bunch more of em at that price, matter of fact in general after a while games will sell less so they should always after a while cut the prices slightly like retail games (like a year later) and the only time they drop prices (more like the 1 or 2 times) was for lumines and/or that tetris-esqe game thats getting a sequel from 1200 to 800... they should reduce 800's to 400 and 400's to 200 after sales have dropped significantly

also Castle Crasher BETTER NOT BE 1200 POINTS... i'm looking forward to that game and they know it is a big game... but i'll buy it regardless :cold:

and my can't sleep rant is over :booty:
 
Yeah most of the stuff on live is too expensive, hopefully they will lower some prices. Also there are a lot of games on xbla that you can play for free on the internet.
 
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[quote name='Rig']Everyone is complaining about the XBLA because nobody plays games on the PS3 or PC.

;)

I'd certainly impulse buy more games at $5. My library of XBLA games is mainly freebies (from promotions, etc.) or 400 point games.[/quote]

Rig is right about this one. I just got a PS3 and tried playing metal gear 4 but just wasn't into it anymore. Over the time span that I have spend on the xbox I have grown acquainted to the system and have gone from a Sony fan to a Microsoft fan.The Xbox achievement system motivates me to give an xbox game another go after completing it the first time just for the thrill of unlocking achievements. This is something that I like about XBLA games over the arcade games on the PSN.
 
[quote name='Hypnot1zed']Yeah most of the stuff on live is too expensive, hopefully they will lower some prices. Also there are a lot of games on xbla that you can play for free on the internet.[/quote]

Yep,
I ended up paying $10 for that Golf game. Then later on I downloaded the same golf game from gamehouse for free to play on pc. I try to get the same games for pc before I even purchase it on live. Though I won't be getting any achievements on the pc but that's ok at least its free.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']Because I don't wanna spend $10 for a game I already have a working version of. 720p, so what? Most retro games on XBLA have the filter that make them look terrible (Eagle vision ftl). 5.1, well, I don't have 5.1, and most people don't so that's out the window as well. Achievements aren't worth it, especially if I already have everything unlocked in that older version. Buying a game a 2nd time is one thing, but when you have a working version on site, buying it again is stupid.

Oh, and when it's $10 and the game has less features (Soul Calibur), screw that.[/QUOTE]


You mentioned the graphic and sound enhancements which are one thing, but there are are other factors.

Stuff like Contra, Streets of Rage 2, Fatal Fury Special, UMK3, and Street Fighter II' have online play, which was only available before via pc emulation (and on SNES/Genesis via X-band, but those were altered ports).

Super Puzzle Fighter II and the upcoming Street Fighter HD remix have re-worked game modes, making them almost entirely different games in their own right.
 
[quote name='Bioshocked360']Sony's sale made me impulse buy 3 games, 2 of which I would never have bought at $10. I wish microsoft did stuff like this.[/quote]

Yea, I bought Pixel Junk Monsters last night for five bucks without thinkin about it. And it's nice to actually SEE the price and you are able to purchase the item you want without having to buy an extra 100-400 points...
 
I found another solution to over priced XBLA games. GET THEM FOR FREE! I just ordered a 4000 Point card from Trainn, so what if the game is 800 points I got 4000 of free points to spend. So that a bit of an ease right.
 
That just encourages MS to keep the prices where they are. Not everyone gets points for free or wants to go through the effort of signing up for five million deals just get free MS points. I personally get enough spam in my mailbox.
 
Yeah, those sites to get free points are too much of a hassle to depend on. I just do a few surveys every so often and will eventually get enough to cash in on a points card, headset or whatever.
 
I lack the patience to get the points through those sites, way too much hassle and spam. The closest thing I have to free points are gifts from friends and when they chip in for Rock Band songs (speaking of which, I gotta collect on the latest bunch).

About the 800 point games though, it's getting annoying. I don't have many points on my account, and getting more is too much of a hassle because I don't want to spend $20 on points. I haven't paid full price for a game in ages, why should I have to now?
 
I hate the 800 point price point but I will say that pretty much every game coming out in August seems to be worth 800 points or more.
 
As long as the game is worth the $10, I really see no problem with it. I mean, there is a demo available for every single Arcade game, so it's not like anyone has to rush in without trying it first. I don't have a problem with paying 1/6 of the price of a new console game for a game that I'll play the hell out of (Pac-Man C.E., Geo. Wars, etc.)
 
Yeah this is why I don't buy any virtual console or xbla games. If they only charged $5 for the majority of their top titles (with maybe a few $10 titles) I would go spend $100 right now. I have maybe 3 or 4 games from each of them I purchased using cards I got for free, but there is no way I will ever spend my money at the current prices.
 
They really need to judge costs on a game by game basis. Making classics $5, new stuff $10 and Premium New Stuff $15-$20 is ridiculuous. It should be based on Quality, period. Yaris was free. And you know what? I felt cheated that it was free. They should've paid me to buy that horrid game. Now it's stuck on my Gamercard forever.

I don't know about Braid. Geometry Wars 1 was overrated IMO. Bionic Commando...probably going to get that on PS3. Castle Crashers is a definite buy if it's 800 points (or less).

If only they'd brought 2 of those games out earlier we wouldn't have had this thread.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']They really need to judge costs on a game by game basis. Making classics $5, new stuff $10 and Premium New Stuff $15-$20 is ridiculuous. It should be based on Quality, period.

[/QUOTE]

Then who exactly decides how much games should be based on their "quality"?

And I assume how much was spent making the game should have no factor.
 
You know what another annoying trend is? XBLA games being $20.

Castlecrashers is going to be $20. You can blame Penny Arcade for starting this trend. :whistle2:(
 
I think the price point should be further down. 400 points are reasonable. I only paid more than 400 for a xbla game once (castlevania).
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Then who exactly decides how much games should be based on their "quality"?

And I assume how much was spent making the game should have no factor.[/quote]


You can tie it to sales. Games that continue to sell well can be assumed to be pretty good games. Games that haven't seen a sale in weeks should have their price dropped. Treat it like any other business does with inventory. Top sellers are given primo space at the front (could have ads in the dashboard) while laggers are discounted and then clearanced out. Games could go down in increments until sales pick up. It's ridiculous to keep a game at the original MSRP if it's not selling.

Hell, I learned in high school economics that prices drops as demand does. Why can't the people that run XBLA figure that out? Like other people in this thread have said, I'd rather sell 20 copies of a game at 400 points instead of 5 copies of games at 800.
 
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I think a lot of it comes down to perception, and I think Geometry Wars is much to blame here.

Geometry Wars was basically a brand new game released on the system for $5. Most XBLA early users, this was a very early game, and this was the face of XBLA. A game that couldn't have existed as a game on the shelf, but for $5, it was well worth it.

Most people view XBLA as an impulse buy, and would buy more.

What I believe skews the numbers are the bigger arcade games. Games like Worms, Alien Hominid, Puzzle Quest, were all worth $10 (or $15). So, these games sell. But, many others would be impulse buys at $5, at $10, you can go to Gamestop and buy a lot of full fledged games used. I think there is something with the $10 mark that makes a consumer step back and think. To use another example, you'll buy a snickers bar for $1, without much thought. But, say they made a bigger snickers bar for $5. Sure, you might pay for McDonalds/Taco Bell/Pizza, and pay $5. But, it doesn't mean you'll pay that for a candy bar, even if it's beefier, and it's "worth it".

Same thing here. Gamers want $5 games, and I think they would buy more. I'd love to sit in a Microsoft meeting and try to devise a strategy to test this.

One other thought though, I don't think the $7 price tag would work. It's ingrained in the heads of gamers here that they want $5 games. I think the $7 might be seen as closer to $10 than to $5.
 
[quote name='depascal22']You can tie it to sales. Games that continue to sell well can be assumed to be pretty good games. Games that haven't seen a sale in weeks should have their price dropped. Treat it like any other business does with inventory. Top sellers are given primo space at the front (could have ads in the dashboard) while laggers are discounted and then clearanced out. Games could go down in increments until sales pick up. It's ridiculous to keep a game at the original MSRP if it's not selling. Hell, I learned in high school economics that prices drops as demand does. Why can't the people that run XBLA figure that out?[/quote]


unfortunately the laws of supply and demand and economics can't be applied to digital distributions since they "never go away" or in "short supply".

If the company need the money to recover from developement, then I could see a price cut, if not selling the best, but besides that, there isn't any other reason that a price cut should have to happen.

Look at Steam, they don't lower prices, they have sales, and the price comes back up eventually. Even digital downloads for Blizzard games are pretty much frozen too.
 
[quote name='xycury']unfortunately the laws of supply and demand and economics can't be applied to digital distributions since they "never go away" or in "short supply".

If the company need the money to recover from developement, then I could see a price cut, if not selling the best, but besides that, there isn't any other reason that a price cut should have to happen.

Look at Steam, they don't lower prices, they have sales, and the price comes back up eventually. Even digital downloads for Blizzard games are pretty much frozen too.[/quote]

You're missing the point. Supply is linked to demand that's true. But if you don't have any supply issues, demand and price can and should fluctuate independently of supply. Put it this way, if XBLA or Steam lowered prices, would demand go up even slightly? Yes. Did supply go down? No. More people that were on the fence jumped because of lowered risk/price not because of perceived scarcity. So just because you can't use the standard supply and demand law for digital media doesn't mean that every other rule for economics should be scrapped also.

I still can't believe that no one at MS would be willing to bring up that some games might make more money at lower prices.
 
Many of you keep forgetting that it's ultimately up to the developers what they want to charge. Microsoft makes recommendations, but they don't set the prices. Their only rule is that you can't charge less than 400 points.

But like I said before, with developers now only getting roughly half the profit than they were before December, almost nobody can afford to price low and hope it sells like crazy. It's just too big of a risk.
 
But how is it that big of a risk? The money has already been spent to develop and play test it. Why wouldn't you want to maximize your return? If lowering the price makes more money in the long run, why wouldn't you want that?
 
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