The Ape Shit Nutjob Right Wingers Want the Gun Grab to Happen Memorial Thread

[quote name='tivo']R U Kidding Me? You don't see the distinction between killing an innocent baby vs. killing a convicted criminal?

Equality of action does not include equality of morals or reason.[/QUOTE]
Do you not see the inherent contradiction in applying murder as a punishment for murder?
 
[quote name='Ugamer_X']Do you not see the inherent contradiction in applying murder as a punishment for murder?[/QUOTE]

I don't think he can see the contradiction in his whole thought process. Regardless, this is getting waaaayyy off topic.
 
[quote name='Msut77']
This should probably be the last said on it since I don't think the thread should be derailed any further.[/QUOTE]

We can stop. But to be honest here, and not to take away too much from what i've said as I was playing the devil's advocate, but I have been mostly pro-choice personally. I figured that women who were too stupid/irresponsible to windup pregnant shouldn't deserve the ability to procreate, to enjoy the blessing of their own child. Prevent another bastard/latch-key kid from coming into a deranged world with a deadbeat mother/father. Let them abort- its better than having more money go to the mother or the child. But abortion is like a "get out of jail free" card- if you know what i mean. Abortion says that its okay to be irresponsible and avoid using one of many devices to prevent fertilization. Abortion trivializes life to some extent. And that's not good. Maybe abortion needs more pain inflicted on the woman (like childbirth) to really wake her and society up. But I can only control my life and be responsible for myself.
 
[quote name='Ugamer_X']Do you not see the inherent contradiction in applying murder as a punishment for murder?[/QUOTE]

I said it before, equality of action does not mean equality of morals. The murderer had a choice in life and he chose to kill someone for some reason. If his victim could use self defense, save his own life, and kill the murderer then society would have no problem with that for the victim retained his morals. Society retains its morals when executing a murderer. The murderer has become a beast and society's self defense against him is execution, the ultimate deterrence against other innocent killings.
 
[quote name='tivo']I said it before, equality of action does not mean equality of morals. The murderer had a choice in life and he chose to kill someone for some reason. If his victim could use self defense, save his own life, and kill the murderer then society would have no problem with that for the victim retained his morals. Society retains its morals when executing a murderer. The murderer has become a beast and society's self defense against him is execution, the ultimate deterrence against other innocent killings.[/QUOTE]
I'm going to ignore other facets of the argument (selfish of me to sidetrack the thread any further) and just get to my ultimate point - You still think that murder is okay.
 
^^^ andd you logged off.
Well this thread has actually gone full circle: do these three nutjobs deserve the death penalty?

I say yes, yes, and yes. (unless they want to plead insanity)
 
Yeah, I'm sure if these three guys were named Hassan, Abdul, and Mohammed, right-wingers would be just *bending over backwards* to make sure that everyone knows they're just "unconnected nut-jobs," and not indicative of any larger political philosophy/religion/culture.

On the plus side? I learned what "ullage" means.
 
[quote name='trq']Yeah, I'm sure if these three guys were named Hassan, Abdul, and Mohammed, right-wingers would be just *bending over backwards* to make sure that everyone knows they're just "unconnected nut-jobs," and not indicative of any larger political philosophy/religion/culture.[/QUOTE]

Wahhhh they started it!

This thread is really pathetic. Once again UncleBob is the voice of reason in the spinning maelstrom of rhetoric and partisanship.
 
Look, I'm (mostly) for allowing women to choose, but the argument that if you're against abortion, you should be against capital punishment is just ignorant.

Face facts - some folks deserve to die. Period. Now, I'm not going to sit here and create a list of who should and who shouldn't live - that's not my place. But there are some people out there that as punishment for their deeds and the good of society - just need to be put down.
 
[quote name='camoor']Wahhhh they started it![/QUOTE]

Yeah, expecting consistent morals from the people who are most vocal about allegedly having them is incredibly childish. Glad to know you're above being bothered by such petty things; I didn't realize you'd become a tulku so quickly.
 
[quote name='trq']Yeah, expecting consistent morals from the people who are most vocal about allegedly having them is incredibly childish. Glad to know you're above being bothered by such petty things; I didn't realize you'd become a tulku so quickly.[/QUOTE]

The mainstream American political/religious right has always been full of hypocrites, are you just waking up to this? Regardless people like Sarah Palin and Tivo are fast becoming irrelevant.

It just saddens me that the people I though of as progressive are starting to act like the arrogant boobs in charge during the reign of Bush Jr.

People who complained that the neo-cons used Saddam, Baath party, and Taliban interchangably are now equating neo-Nazis, extreme religious fanatics, and seriously insane criminals to Republicans.

If your point is that guns should/will be taken away from everyone because three insane people used a gun to create a tragedy, then IMO you don't have much of a point. I feel foolish even posting because I suspect this is a joke thread, but I figured I'd throw in my 2 cents anyway.
 
camoor is the zewone of politics.

he's not really in favor of anything, just being staunchly opposed to whatever it appears the majority are into.
 
[quote name='Brak']He made a good point, though...[/QUOTE]

Which one is good?

"Wahhhh they started it!"
"This thread is really pathetic."
"Once again UncleBob is the voice of reason in the spinning maelstrom of rhetoric and partisanship."
"The mainstream American political/religious right has always been full of hypocrites"
"People who complained that the neo-cons used Saddam, Baath party, and Taliban interchangably are now equating neo-Nazis, extreme religious fanatics, and seriously insane criminals to Republicans. "
"People like Sarah Palin and Tivo are fast becoming irrelevant."
 
[quote name='Brak']He made a good point, though...[/QUOTE]

People keep saying these were just a group of "crazies" but they left letters etc. showing organization and that are coherent at least by the standards of right wing cosmology (the neo nazi guy was even a freeper and a birther).

As for conflating Republicans with extreme religious fanatics anyone who disagrees with that is probably a lying fool, this is camoor so...
 
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Damn, you guys are worse than Jack Thompson. Oh shit, he plays video games, HE'S A MASS MURDERER! Let's ban violent video games! They're going to tell him to kill someone. Oh shit, he's a conservative, HE'S A MASS MURDERER! Let's ban Rush, and Beck and all the conservatives from radio! And ban guns! They're going to tell someone to kill someone!

Then you come up with these conspiracy theories that conservatives everywhere are planning to kill people in mass murders. Seriously?
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']Damn, you guys are worse than Jack Thompson. Oh shit, he plays video games, HE'S A MASS MURDERER! Let's ban violent video games! They're going to tell him to kill someone. Oh shit, he's a conservative, HE'S A MASS MURDERER! Let's ban Rush, and Beck and all the conservatives from radio! And ban guns! They're going to tell someone to kill someone!

Then you come up with these conspiracy theories that conservatives everywhere are planning to kill people in mass murders. Seriously?[/QUOTE]

I read what right wingers write all the time, even what passes for mainstream among them dabbles in this crap.

It is a part of the conservative zeitgeist and is nothing new.

Kindly stfu.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']I'm sure he will stfu as soon as you stop making such ignorant posts.[/QUOTE]

You keep using that word but it doesn't mean what you wish it to mean.
 
And you keep making stupid posts that don't make as much sense to a normal person as you wish they would. But anyways, the point of this topic is you shouldn't decide to lump some random crazies in with a political party. ELF and ALF aren't something I would lump with the democratic party, even though they share many core beliefs with them. Fringe groups are fringe groups and there is no reason to try to tie them to a political party.
 
[quote name='tivo']Which one is good?

"Wahhhh they started it!"
"This thread is really pathetic."
"Once again UncleBob is the voice of reason in the spinning maelstrom of rhetoric and partisanship."
"The mainstream American political/religious right has always been full of hypocrites"
"People who complained that the neo-cons used Saddam, Baath party, and Taliban interchangably are now equating neo-Nazis, extreme religious fanatics, and seriously insane criminals to Republicans. "
"People like Sarah Palin and Tivo are fast becoming irrelevant."[/QUOTE]
- People who complained that the neo-cons used Saddam, Baath party, and Taliban interchangably are now equating neo-Nazis, extreme religious fanatics, and seriously insane criminals to Republicans.

I know this is blatantly obvious to say, but:

Those people do definitely tend to be Republicans, but you can't say that Republicans tend to be those people - that's just ridiculous.

Now, I know a lot of ultra-Conservatives are racing to Kmart to buy armaments before Obama turns us Red -- which is hilarious... And I'm sure a lot of Klansmen are conspiring to hit the president -- which is awful. But I'd like to believe that these people are truly, and simply, at their core, just ignorant / bat-shit insane.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']And you keep making stupid posts that don't make as much sense to a normal person as you wish they would.[/quote]

Even if that were true (the problem looks to be that you consider yourself normal) that would not be ignorant.

But anyways, the point of this topic is you shouldn't decide to lump some random crazies in with a political party.
Click to expand...

Except this isn't random nor are these people technically crazy you wanton choad.
 
You really, really suck cock at arguing, Msut77. :lol:

If you're any older than - say - 17, I'll eat my hat.
 
[quote name='Brak']You really, really suck cock at arguing, Msut77. :lol:

If you're any older than - say - 17, I'll eat my hat.[/QUOTE]

I am the only one "arguing" anything that is not just a complete denial of reality.
 
Or you could just learn how to debate properly.

Then everyone will win!
 
[quote name='Brak']Or you could just learn how to debate properly.

Then everyone will win![/QUOTE]

You could just you know continue to stick your fingers in your ears and yell because you would rather just make shit up.

Is that proper enough?
 
[quote name='Brak']Exactly what was I ignoring and what was I making up?[/QUOTE]

You are ignoring reality, the decades of right wing political spiel where their political enemies are cast as traitors, commies and general vermin. You see this today among number of right wingers, again even the ones considered mainstream are quite explicit.

200905051404.jpg


Again this kind of crap is basically mainstream for the con base.

As for making shit up these attacks were not entirely random, in several examples they were targeted either in terms of an assassination or because of who they were.

Nor are the attackers were what one would call crazy any more than any other acts of political violence are done by crazy people.
 
[quote name='Msut77']You are ignoring reality, the decades of right wing political spiel where their political enemies are cast as traitors, commies and general vermin. You see this today among number of right wingers, again even the ones considered mainstream are quite explicit.

200905051404.jpg


Again this kind of crap is basically mainstream for the con base.

As for making shit up these attacks were not entirely random, in several examples they were targeted either in terms of an assassination or because of who they were.

Nor are the attackers were what one would call crazy any more than any other acts of political violence are done by crazy people.[/QUOTE]

Hey look, I can find crazy liberals too!




I suppose all liberals think Obama is God, and the messiah, and that Rush should be dead?
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']Hey look, I can find crazy liberals too![/quote]

And to do this you post images made by right wingers?

How about this one?

rooftops.jpg


Like I said this is normal among the what the right considers their base.

I can get you dozens more calling liberals terrorists outright or merely terrorists appeasers or helpers or who the fuck knows.

It is a fucking war to them.

Right wing pundits even write books saying so and even Republican Congresspeople use this kind of language.
 
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[quote name='Msut77']And to do this you post images made by right wingers?

How about this one?

rooftops.jpg


Like I said this is normal among the what the right considers their base.

I can get you dozens more calling liberals terrorists outright or merely terrorists appeasers or helpers or who the fuck knows.

It is a fucking war to them.

Right wing pundits even write books saying so.[/QUOTE]

Okay, you don't like those, here's some more.
These are some google results for kill conservatives:
http://soundingthetrumpetblog.com/2004/12/14/kill-conservatives/
This is interesting. A sociology lecturer in the University of Louisville (Louisville, Kentucky) threatened to kill conservatives. According to the Louisville Patriot the lecturer said:
It was the religious zealots who say they are voting on morals. I think we should all buy AK-47s and shoot them all! That’s what I would suggest, if it were allowed.”​
Click to expand...
A remote California beach out near San Francisco. Two Christian Missionaries. A young hetro Christian couple about to be married - shot on the beach in their sleep for their Christian beliefs by Left Wing "Terrorists". Devil faces drawn on driftwood nearby and other clues point to an attack on them for their beliefs.
When that attack on Conservatives happened, there was barely a mention in the media.
With this incident in Tennessee, the media/Liberals are swarming all over it trying to make hay and "score points".
Lest we forget Waco (no matter what the opinion), Ruby Ridge, etc.
Lest we forget, 2007 a gunman wearing a "beanie" cap who had a grudge against Christians cap kills two people in a church in Colorado.
Liberal fascists have a long history of targeting those who aren't "one of them".
Repeat loudly and often.
Click to expand...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2052662/posts
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316322,00.html
Colorado Church Gunman Had Grudge Against Christian Group, Cops Say
Click to expand...

Today pond scum Limbaugh had the audacity to say, I hope he fails. This remark was made in reference to President Obama. Well , I and a few million others have this to say to Rush Limbaugh, 'WE ALL HOPE YOU EXPIRE', and the sooner the better. Limbaugh does not deserve to live in this country, let alone be paid for the trash that comes out of his mouth. If ever there was a candidate to be tarred and feathered, it is Limbaugh. I am so disgusted by this thing that I had to vent my disdain on this public blog. I could say a lot more, but it is not worth anymore of my time. Please take that man off the air.
Click to expand...
http://community.comcast.net/comcas...hread.id=379638&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

Here's some results for kill ann coulter:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Advertising_mag_asks_Ann_Coulter_to_0612.html
In a striking post, AdAge magazine, a leading magazine for the advertising community, has asked Godless author Ann Coulter to kill herself, RAW STORY has discovered. Buried in the article, a humorous attack on the mainstream media, was the following quote.
"Would it kill you, 'Godless' author Ann Coulter, to do us all a favor and kill yourself? (Oh, well, yeah, I guess it would kill you.)
"After her recent rabidly hateful, foaming-at-the-mouth, sub-human 'Today' show appearance -- in which she reiterated her assertion that 9/11 widows are "enjoying their husband's deaths" -- even her former supporters began to fantasize about how much nicer the world would be if it were Coulterless."
Click to expand...
http://www.dallasdancemusic.com/for...s/120561-someone-kill-ann-coulter-please.html

Someone kill Ann Coulter please...
Click to expand...


It's called sensationalism.
 
[quote name='Msut77']And to do this you post images made by right wingers?

How about this one?


Like I said this is normal among the what the right considers their base.

I can get you dozens more calling liberals terrorists outright or merely terrorists appeasers or helpers or who the fuck knows.

It is a fucking war to them.

Right wing pundits even write books saying so.[/QUOTE]

I'll say this nicely. gtfo off with that crap. we had to put up with 8 years of people talking about how bush should die, and there was an entire movie made about his assassination. and yet you come in here acting like your party is the perfect loving democratic party?
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']I'll say this nicely. gtfo off with that crap.[/QUOTE]

What crap?

Sean Hannity writes books conflating Liberalism with terror and despotism and how to win the war on Liberalism and like I said don't even get me started on Ann Coulter.

WTF do you think is the logical conclusion to all that kind of shit you piddling little worm?

Did you think America was immune from this type of political violence?
 
[quote name='Msut77']What crap?

Sean Hannity writes books conflating Liberalism with terror and despotism and how to win the war on Liberalism and like I said don't even get me started on Ann Coulter.

WTF do you think is the logical conclusion to all that kind of shit you piddling little worm?

Did you think America was immune from this type of political violence?[/QUOTE]

Then why do liberals say we should kill conservatives?
 
@ msut

Do you know how to read points someone brought up in previous points and then address them? Instead you completely ignore them and act like no one is going to notice you looking like a complete tool.
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']Then why do liberals say we should kill conservatives?[/QUOTE]

A better question would be why do conservatives actually murder liberals?

It might be because according to their world view it is a perfectly rational thing to do, unless you know you start saying the civil rights murders of the 60's were done by crazy people.
 
[quote name='Msut77']A better question would be why do conservatives actually murder liberals?

It might be because according to their world view it is a perfectly rational thing to do, unless you know you start saying the civil rights murders of the 60's were done by crazy people.[/QUOTE]

Did you even read my posts?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316322,00.html
There you are. A liberal murdering a conservative. Msut's conclusion: Liberals are peaceful and rational.
Now, when a conservative murders a liberal. Msut's conclusion: Conservatives are dangerous killers, and we should ban all guns.

The civil rights murders of the 60's were done by the KKK. If you think the KKK is a typical conservative organization, then I guess the Weathermen, Socialist Worker's Party and the Symbionese Liberation Army are typical liberal organizations.
 
Ann Coulter is as much genuine political discourse as professional wrestling is genuine fighting.

I'm glad this thread became a battle of .jpgs used to say that one party's wingnuts are the same as the others.

Since, you know, jpegs kill people as efficiently as bullets do.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']1) mentally ill nut
2) 90 year old conspiracy theory nut
3) moron down on his luck

i know you wouldnt let certain other posters get away with using those stories as anecdotal evidence. these guys werent really republican (though i agree with you theyre more likely to vote for them rather than democrats) but cmon now.

heres a graph to help

msut - democrats - moderates - repubican - these guys

why not include Lovelle Mixon, the guy who shot 4 cops in oakland? why not include carlos bledsoe aka Abdul Hakim Mujahid Muhammad for killing an army recruiter and shooting another. some idiot just killed 1 and shot 6 others in a strip club.

they all have one thing in common, they are all nuts. but you only bring up the 3 to bash the ideaology you disagree with (despite the killers themselves not necessarily agreeing with said ideaology)[/QUOTE]

if only one of these three incidents happened, i'd agree that it's anomalous.

but this, and others sure to come from right-wing nuts, show (to me) a pattern of attitude and behavior that suggests many on the right have no idea how to be...how should I say this..."gracious losers." Sure, for 8 years we put up with Bush policies we hated, but I don't recall killing anyone to try to change a policy.

You see individuals who aren't representative of the whole, and I see patterned behavior that may or may not represent the mainstream of the right, but is undoubtedly encouraged and egged on by mainstream right-wing media folks.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']if only one of these three incidents happened, i'd agree that it's anomalous.

but this, and others sure to come from right-wing nuts, show (to me) a pattern of attitude and behavior that suggests many on the right have no idea how to be...how should I say this..."gracious losers." Sure, for 8 years we put up with Bush policies we hated, but I don't recall killing anyone to try to change a policy.

You see individuals who aren't representative of the whole, and I see patterned behavior that may or may not represent the mainstream of the right, but is undoubtedly encouraged and egged on by mainstream right-wing media folks.[/QUOTE]

it is anomalous (or at least im optimistic enough to think it is), the three people and incidents you brought up have little in common except that they arent liberal. because of that common thread youre making the assumption that they are part of "the right", which is a gross over statement. as i said before, ill concede that they are more likely to vote for mccain than they are obama, but they arent "the right". you also insinuate that they committed these atrocities to "change policy". so let me just put my 2 cents on the three and their attempt to change policy.

1) scott roeder. this is the only one id say would fits in the changing policy generalization. he killed tiller and its pretty clear cut why he did it. but lets clear a couple things up. this is not (sadly) new. extremists like roeder have killed abortion doctors in the past and incited violence against clinics (bombings, arson, etc). but the vast majority of "the right" would not condone the actions of this man.

and as for them being "thrilled" on the inside, i bet some are "thrilled" to have one less clinic around, but not necessarily that tiller was killed for that to happen. id correlate these people with so called "eco-terrorists" on the left you know that ones to vandalize, arson and break into animal testing labs and such. animal right activists have said that murdering researchers is "morally justified". but i wouldnt say that their actions represent the left as a whole or that the left would be thrilled by those actions.

2) james von brunn. a mentally ill fringe bigot. now he wasnt trying to change policy, he was just making a statement. he doesnt like jews. well bigots like him evidently ignore the fact that the right, republicans in particular, are (arguably) the biggest supporters of israel. hes just a far far far right lunatic with a violent criminal past.

3) richard poplawski. this guy went on a shooting rampage for lord knows why. you assume that hes some part of a right wing radical movement because someone that knew him, not the man himself, said that he was worried about changes to gun laws. is that the reason he went on the killing spree? perhaps, but unlikely. a much more likely reason is that he had lost his job, was unemployed, and probably mentally unstable to begin with. to think that hes part of some sort of movement because an acquaintance said he was worried about gun laws its silly. i havent read or heard anything to indicate (and please correct me if im wrong) that he was part of any political organization or organization in general (like the NRA). hell, he was so young he may never have even voted.


my point is we have three tragedies that youre trying to tie into some sort of related right wing movement or idealogy, when that just simply isnt the case. do all three of them share some views with "the right", id say thats 100% true. are these three accurate representations of "the right" absolutely not.


now on the other hand, we have lovelle mixon who killed 4 cops for no reason other than who-the-hell-knows. he was later hailed as a hero by people in oakland. im willing to bet those people are left in ideology. does that mean the left supports killing cops?

and then theres carlos bledsoe aka Abdul Hakim Mujahid Muhammad. now heres someone we know killed for an ideology. he has admitted to hunting down the soldier he killed and has said he wished he could have killed more. he has admitted that hes fighting in a war and that the battleground is here. im not going to make blanket statements about muslims because of him, we all know that 99% of muslims in the US dont support or advocate the killing of soldiers. its a shame too that the tiller killing is getting far more press than killing of Pvt William Long who i would consider an actual casualty of war.

/rant
 
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