The Best Buy Shopper Intelligence Test

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epobirs

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Went to my local BB today and observed two similar oddities.

First, in the GameBoy section there were any number of reasonably priced collections of classic arcade games. The Namco Museum (including Ms. Pac-Man) for $15, the Konami set for $15, the Midway set for $15, and most importantly in this instance, the Pac-Man Collection with the original arcade Pac-Man, a graphically enhaned version and several Pac-Man arcade sequels, again for $15.

On the endcap was a display of the NES Classics for GBA series. Among them was the Namco Pac-Man, just the original Pac-Man and nothing more, for $20.

Over in the PSone section I then saw Driver for $5 and Driver 2 for $10. Just above them in the bin was the Driver Compilation containing the same two games. The price? $20.

I was tempted to hang around just to see if anyone bought that Pac-Man cart just so I could intervene and ask them why they didn't think they could do better.
 
Okay, you need to realize something: Some of us are collectors that would rather have all of the games in a series than have 7/8 of the classic NES games. With the Driver thing, some of us wouldn't buy either as they're both GH versions, although we would be a little more inclined to buy the 2-pack as it has white-labeled games istead of ugly green ones.

I understand what you're saying, although some of us would in fact rather have the more expensive copies (Which BTW would cost the same amount if you used a GGC).
 
obviously collectors would want non GH versions and such... but that has nothing to do with how BB prices their games..
 
[quote name='Querjek']Okay, you need to realize something: Some of us are collectors that would rather have all of the games in a series than have 7/8 of the classic NES games. With the Driver thing, some of us wouldn't buy either as they're both GH versions, although we would be a little more inclined to buy the 2-pack as it has white-labeled games istead of ugly green ones.

I understand what you're saying, although some of us would in fact rather have the more expensive copies (Which BTW would cost the same amount if you used a GGC).[/quote]

I'm sorry but this is just nuts. Who in their right mind would consider Pac-Man an NES classic and go to extra expense to obtain it? By the time the NES hit the US market Pac-Man was extremely old news. It had already appeared on every game system and computer under the Atarisoft label.

The same could be said for Donkey Kong (including Atarisoft putting it on every platform worth mentioning) but at least that can be called an innate piece of the NES' identity, although it too was not a big seller on the US NES since it didn't hold up very well compared to the Super Mario Bros. that most people got bundled with the hardware.

This reminds me of why I called it quits on the comics world in the early 90's. Collectors became such a grotesque gathering of suckers the industry gave up its very recently attained quality of content to instead indulge in an endless series of stunts designed to sell multiple shrinkwrapped copies of the same story to the idiots. To make matter worse characters who were suddenly hot were made to guest star in othe series no matter how inappropriate just to hit up the suckers for more sales. Never mind that the actual content turned to swill.

Hey, I might as well cash in, too. I've got a Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time letter opener in the shape of Link's sword sent to me as part of a press kit by Nintendo.

First $1,000 takes it away. Free shipping!
 
[quote name='epobirs'][quote name='Querjek'][/quote]

[/quote]
Because I am crazy with the whole nostalgia thing. THere's a certain feeling that comes with holding onto and playing a bunch of NES games on carts compared to have one cart with multiple variations on the same thing. Call me crazy--I do too.
 
[quote name='epobirs']Somebody please explain why GH packaging is such a stigma. Are you ashamed to be a CAG?[/quote]

Consumption of lead based paint is usually the key factor.
 
[quote name='Querjek'][quote name='epobirs'][quote name='Querjek'][/quote]

[/quote]
Because I am crazy with the whole nostalgia thing. THere's a certain feeling that comes with holding onto and playing a bunch of NES games on carts compared to have one cart with multiple variations on the same thing. Call me crazy--I do too.[/quote]

I could understand if you were going around looking for pristine original NES carts but what is achieve by buying a GBA package that is purely just trying to hoover your wallet? If you want a collectible represtative of the GBA wouldn't a pristine copy of something created specifically for the GBA like Wario 4 be more meaningful? Especially if you held on to it long enough for it to be unfamiliar to young gamers?

If you let the manufacturer tell you what is a collectible you're being exploited just like those comic book buyers I mentioned previously.
 
[quote name='"epobirs"'][quote name='Querjek']Hey, I might as well cash in, too. I've got a Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time letter opener in the shape of Link's sword sent to me as part of a press kit by Nintendo.

First $1,000 takes it away. Free shipping![/quote]

Will you take $10?
 
the greatest hits boxes look like hell with those ugly ass red bands on them, and when put in the mix with regular cases, they stick out pretty bad. for collectors, this can be really annoying to look at :p

also i'm not sure if this is right, but greatest hits versions are made in larger numbers? after a game become a greatest hit, it starts getting hard to find non GH versions.
 
People who buy these NES GB advance carts are nuts . . . loveable perhaps, but nuts . . . Donkey Kong for instance it doesn't even have the fourth stage . . . it's crap!

The greatest hits stigma is beyond nuts . . .

THE PLAY IS THE THING
 
The original Zelda was the only GBA re-release I had any interest in, and I still wouldn't have gotten it if CC didn't have it & a t-shirt for $15. BTW, the boxes on those re-releases are ugly imo, as is the cart artwork (or lack thereof). And am I nuts, or wasn't the manual for the original LOZ full color? This one sure isn't, and it looks like ass like everything else in the packaging.

The game still rocks, naturally, but they sure did skimp out on these releases. No way I'll be picking up any of the others.
 
If you don't want them, don't buy them.
Just don't start bitching when Nintendo refuses to do things like bring over Mother 1 as a gameboy game.

Why bother with putting out niche NES or SNES games when the big name ones wouldn't sell.
 
If I can get a 50 dollar game for less than 20, I am not going to be bothered by packaging... I just want my game in fully functional form, for as long as possible.
 
[quote name='Cracka']the greatest hits boxes look like hell with those ugly ass red bands on them, and when put in the mix with regular cases, they stick out pretty bad. for collectors, this can be really annoying to look at :p

also i'm not sure if this is right, but greatest hits versions are made in larger numbers? after a game become a greatest hit, it starts getting hard to find non GH versions.[/quote]

The non-GH packages become hard to find because the game is a good seller. Before the numbers are achieved to make a game eligible for GH it will likely have seen at least four production runs, all at the royalty fee level of a full price game. GH means more than just different packaging. It also means that Sony takes a much small royalty fee on those newly manufactured games which is what makes it feasible for the publisher to keep it around at the lower price rather than letting it die once all the inventory is sold.

You may have noticed that some games will almost completely disappear before reappearing in GH form. This allows the old high royalty inventory to drain off without being too severely discounted. Additionally retaillers prefer their stock to have a uniform appearance and they know well in advance the GH version is on the way. Sony had this down to a science on the PS1 and everybody copied that for this generation or tried to since some things Microsoft and Nintendo wanted to keep around at low prices weren't the fastest sellers but still valuable additions to their respective libraries at the low price.

Considering that a game typically has to be very popular before it is re-released as a GH I'd be inclined to say the original packaging is more common unless the GH version continues selling steadily for years. Since so many of the original package will turn up in the secondhand market the volume of GH sales after a year is (IMHO) probably less than 40% of the title's total sales for all but the few games with the greatest longevity.

Looking over at the rack where I have about 150 PS2 games I find I don't have any GH games but that (in cases where the game has become a GH)is solely because I usually find it for my preferred price before the GH version appears. OTOH, I've got about 300 PSone games in CD racks and about 20 of those are GH. Doesn't bother me a bit. To date, no one has beheld my assemblage of games and modified their "Holy Shit!" with "Oh wait, a bunch of these are the Greatest Hits version. I'm much less impressed than I first expressed."

I occasionally get questioned about my mental health (a highly overrated quality) or whether I've considered the virtues of direct interation with other humans but never has the collection met disdain for some items not being of the earliest possible vintage.
 
[quote name='schultzed']People who buy these NES GB advance carts are nuts . . . loveable perhaps, but nuts . . . Donkey Kong for instance it doesn't even have the fourth stage . . . it's crap!

The greatest hits stigma is beyond nuts . . .

THE PLAY IS THE THING[/quote]

Doesn't

have

the

fourth

stage?

Anyone who buys this thing should be deprogrammed like a cult member.

I've said it before. Why buy a recreation of a flawed version of a game when the hardware you're using is orders of magnitude more powerful than needed to produce a perfect version. If it didn't originate on the NES hardware ala Super Mario Bros., why bother? Why play the NES Xevious when you can get an arcade perfect version in the Namco Museum? Is the game no good if you cannot pretend you're pre-pubescent again while playing it?

Hell, the GameBoy version of Donkey Kong with Super GameBoy support had something like 100 levels. It may not have had great graphics but a used copy of that played on a GBA is a vastly better gaming value than this silly rip-off.
 
This is coming from a Nintendo fanboy~ I hope Sony's PSP gives them a swift kick in the nutz. If Nintendo didn't have a virtual monopoly on the handheld market, they'd probably put more effort into their classic compilations and lower their GBA game prices.

BTW, there was an arcade version of Super Mario Bros.
 
[quote name='Strider Turbulence']This is coming from a Nintendo fanboy~ I hope Sony's PSP gives them a swift kick in the nutz. If Nintendo didn't have a virtual monopoly on the handheld market, they'd probably put more effort into their classic compilations and lower their GBA game prices.

BTW, there was an arcade version of Super Mario Bros.[/quote]

Yes, but the arcade hardware for that generation of Nintendo games essentially was the NES. The Famicom was already doing big business in Japan when that generation of Nintendo arcade machine preceded the US introduction of the NES.

(The NES Classic series is the fifth time Super Mario Bros. has been marketed tot he US: Arcade, NES, Mario All-Stars on SNES, Super Mario Bros. Deluxe on GBC, and now GBA.)

This was actually something of a step backwards from earlier Nintendo arcade hardware. The board used for the Popeye machine was a fair bit stronger than the NES chipset but it was too expensive to base a home system around.

NES as arcade platform:
http://www.gamersgraveyard.com/repository/nes/history/nes_arcade.html

Frankly, even if it does very well I don't think the PSP will have much negative effect on Nintendo. THe difference in price points and several other factors place them in very different market segments. Nintendo will still effectively have a lock on the 12 and under players who comprise the most valuable portion of the portable gaming market. It remains to be seen if Sony can significantly expand the handheld game market. If they can't do that they're sunk.
 
[quote name='jmcc'][quote name='epobirs']Somebody please explain why GH packaging is such a stigma. Are you ashamed to be a CAG?[/quote]

Consumption of lead based paint is usually the key factor.[/quote]

speaking of lead, does anybody else enjoy opening up a new game from the case, and sniffing out the new game smell straight from the factory, and that actually enjoys the bold smell a lot, just as much as I do?
 
[quote name='gamefreak117'][quote name='jmcc'][quote name='epobirs']Somebody please explain why GH packaging is such a stigma. Are you ashamed to be a CAG?[/quote]

Consumption of lead based paint is usually the key factor.[/quote]

speaking of lead, does anybody else enjoy opening up a new game from the case, and sniffing out the new game smell straight from the factory, and that actually enjoys the bold smell a lot, just as much as I do?[/quote]

(Sound of chirping crickets)
 
A little off-topic, but....

[quote name='epobirs']Sony had this down to a science on the PS1 and everybody copied that for this generation or tried to since some things Microsoft and Nintendo wanted to keep around at low prices weren't the fastest sellers but still valuable additions to their respective libraries at the low price.[/quote]

Nintendo that had the "wait till it's sold out" approach nailed first, before Sony ever thought it might be a good idea. In mid-1996 we saw SNES launch titles (that means 1991 in the U.S.) being re-released for the first time, at $30 each, as Player's Choice - Million Sellers. How's about that for waiting for normal stock to liquidate? 8)

Sony's Greatest Hits collection was introduced in mid-1997, with $25 games (when Sony-published titles had an SRP of $50).

That's all. Let the black stripe vs. red/yellow/silver stripe debate carry on.
 
Game collector's are fucking lame. You're supposed to play the damn things, not collect them. I think it's funny how no one in the thread is labeling themselves a gamer, but a collector.
 
[quote name='"defender"'][quote name='epobirs'][quote name='Querjek']Hey, I might as well cash in, too. I've got a Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time letter opener in the shape of Link's sword sent to me as part of a press kit by Nintendo.

First $1,000 takes it away. Free shipping![/quote]

Will you take $10?[/quote]

Ill give you $20 :D
 
Collecting is a disease, my friend. It ruins the best of us.

My "aesthetic stupidity" extends to DVDs as well, where I'll hunt for an OOP cover for a widely available film (i.e. THE FRIGHTENERS, where I spent many moons searching for the original case art).
 
[quote name='mr. filet mignon 5000, es']A little off-topic, but....

[quote name='epobirs']Sony had this down to a science on the PS1 and everybody copied that for this generation or tried to since some things Microsoft and Nintendo wanted to keep around at low prices weren't the fastest sellers but still valuable additions to their respective libraries at the low price.[/quote]

Nintendo that had the "wait till it's sold out" approach nailed first, before Sony ever thought it might be a good idea. In mid-1996 we saw SNES launch titles (that means 1991 in the U.S.) being re-released for the first time, at $30 each, as Player's Choice - Million Sellers. How's about that for waiting for normal stock to liquidate? 8)

Sony's Greatest Hits collection was introduced in mid-1997, with $25 games (when Sony-published titles had an SRP of $50).

That's all. Let the black stripe vs. red/yellow/silver stripe debate carry on.[/quote]

Nintendo's approach was very different due to the problems attached to mask ROM production. They revived a very small number of games and all of them were from within their own library. No third party hits.

Games in low priced product lines like Greatest Hits and Player's Choice are touted as those which have been very success, long since making back their cost of development and marketing to produce a good profit. Since the only further expenses in keeping those titles in prints are the minor cost of manufacturing and the royalties charged to third party publishers it serves the platform company's purposes to reduce their royalty fee and keep the game in stores at a low price that appeals to those who on limited budgets who might otherwise resort to secondhand or pirated games. The distinctive marking also serves as a easy way for retailers to point customers to a 'can't go wrong' choice.

This works because the price of CD-ROM and DVD games is almost completely detached from the actual manufacturing cost. It also has the benefit of allowing very small production runs without incurring a cost penalty. The opposite conditions apply to mask ROMs. There is an unavoidable expense every time you change a production line to use a new mask. This cost is spread across the production run and is one of the primary reasons large production runs are less expensive. This isn't a problem with optical disc replication. Changing masters only takes a few minutes and the cost is trival. So if a chain like Best Buy decides it wants to replenish its stock of PSone Spyro when a new Spyro apears for current platforms, it's no big deal for Sony to whip out 10,000 discs and packages for delivery within a couple weeks.

It took Nintendo the better part of five years to revive those early SNES hits for several reasons. First, the cost of the cartridges had to go down to the point that a lower price point became feasible. Most of these games were four megabit carts in an era where sixteen megabits had become the low end. Even so, the cost was still high enough that third party publishers weren't invited to participate at a lowered royalty rate. Additionally, Nintendo had to be sure their major retail customers had no remaining stocks of these titles. To make it worth producing new supplies conditions had to ensure that a large number would be absorbed by the retail channel.

Contrast this with the efficiency of Sony's Greatest Hits product line and you have to give them the credit for making this a vital part of video game retailing.
 
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