The Bullying of Phoebe Prince

[quote name='Cantatus']You can't go file for a restraining order.
[/QUOTE]

Actually in some states you can file, even as a teen, on your own (California for example). Many states do require an adult to help you file for a protective order, however in most cases this does not always have to be a parent either. Still, it's important to note that in a case such as this a restraining order may or may not have been granted. I'm not familar enough with all this to even guess probably, but I can say the majority of cases in which a protective order is granted for teens has to due with dating and physical violence/abuse. So, at least legally speaking bullying would fall into a gray area depending on circumstances. But also helpful is the fact that more and more states are putting harassment/stalking laws on the books and in some cases (but probably not enough) adding language specifically relating to "cyber" harassment.
 
[quote name='camoor']The mob mentality definately plays into it. But I'd never classify it as "having a good time". Constantly hurling slurs, ruining her reputation and throwing a can from a moving car goes beyond play.[/QUOTE]

I didn't say that the bullies were doing a good thing. Just thoroughly enjoying their own behavior.
 
[quote name='ITDEFX']LOL now that was funny.

So you babysit huh?[/QUOTE]

Well, there were parents who used the pool as a cheap daycare.

It would be the equivelent of buying a hamburger at McDonalds with the expectation of living there.

To be honest I really wouldn't have minded, but kids who hangout at the pool for 8-9 hours a day eventually get bored and start acting out for attention again and again and again (especially with a jem of a parent like that mom). You were usually stuck with them for the year, because the pool company wouldn't eject the family till next year when contracts were being renewed.
 
That sucks Camoor...as a joke I would have said "well maybe no one will be helping your kid when he drowns.." but of course that would have probably gotten me fired...

anyways...

What do you guys think of the sending a bully to JH for the weekend? Do you think he/she will learn her lesson and just stop the shit because of all the things they experienced in JH and they don't want to end up in JH? I've never been to JH, but i've met some people who claimed they were in it and it wasn't a pleasant experience for them, but it changed them enough to make them stop whatever they were doing to get them in there in the first place.
 
[quote name='camoor']jem of a parent[/QUOTE]

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That story is outrageous. Truly, truly, truly outrageous.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']Actually in some states you can file, even as a teen, on your own (California for example). Many states do require an adult to help you file for a protective order, however in most cases this does not always have to be a parent either. Still, it's important to note that in a case such as this a restraining order may or may not have been granted. I'm not familar enough with all this to even guess probably, but I can say the majority of cases in which a protective order is granted for teens has to due with dating and physical violence/abuse. So, at least legally speaking bullying would fall into a gray area depending on circumstances. But also helpful is the fact that more and more states are putting harassment/stalking laws on the books and in some cases (but probably not enough) adding language specifically relating to "cyber" harassment.[/QUOTE]

I'm more saying that a kid that age wouldn't have the resources to get a restraining order. They'd likely have to rely on their parents (for transportation, etc.), and if they couldn't get support there, it's unlikely they'd get it themselves. Younger kids that are bullied likely aren't even aware of what one is.
 
[quote name='Strell']
If I ever have kids - if - I'm probably going to suggest they take self defense classes [/QUOTE]

I used to teach karate classes to children, and I helped run a program called Bully Busters. We taught children what to do when they're being bullied and why they shouldn't be a bully. I don't know if it works or not, but the school of thought is to get to kids early and teach them self respect and self worth and to put a stop to bullying before or as soon as it starts.
 
Yea I remembered all that talk about learning Karate and defending yourself against bullies but come one now...how many people did you know growing up opened up a can of kung fu whoop ass on a bully in self defense? These days if a kid tried to use karate for self defense and beats the shit out of the bully, the bully will simply run home to mommy and say "MOM!!! JOHN KICKED ME IN THE FACE!!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA..." when the mom asks his son what caused John to hit him, the son will reply..I dunno cause he doesn't want to admit that he caused the problem to begin with. Mom will call the police and little john will be charged with Assault.
 
[quote name='ITDEFX']Yea I remembered all that talk about learning Karate and defending yourself against bullies but come one now...how many people did you know growing up opened up a can of kung fu whoop ass on a bully in self defense? These days if a kid tried to use karate for self defense and beats the shit out of the bully, the bully will simply run home to mommy and say "MOM!!! JOHN KICKED ME IN THE FACE!!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA..." when the mom asks his son what caused John to hit him, the son will reply..I dunno cause he doesn't want to admit that he caused the problem to begin with. Mom will call the police and little john will be charged with Assault.[/QUOTE]

Well you can't go by the movies.

I remember there was a kid in HS who knew a few martial arts moves and they were pretty effective. Unfortunately the kid was a bully.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Maybe she tried to fit in by degrading herself?

...

As far as bullying, my kids haven't had to deal with it yet. The Boy is larger and stronger than most kids his age give or take a year or two. Caitlyn seems to have her mother's ability to charm.[/QUOTE]

Maybe they're the bullies. In fact I bet they are.
 
We taught diffusing arguments with words to the younger children and how to read body language and avoid physical violence to the older children/adults.

These techniques were effective for me in high school and beyond, but I've got a pretty thick skin to begin with.

And unfortunately for Phoebe Price it seems like there was nothing she could have done to stop the torture she endured.
 
[quote name='Copper_City_Champ']We taught diffusing arguments with words to the younger children and how to read body language and avoid physical violence to the older children/adults.

These techniques were effective for me in high school and beyond, but I've got a pretty thick skin to begin with.

And unfortunately for Phoebe Price it seems like there was nothing she could have done to stop the torture she endured.[/QUOTE]

Wasn't she an exchange student?

EDIT: My mistake. It says immigrant.
 
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[quote name='WrexManor']Maybe they're the bullies. In fact I bet they are.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure there's a third option. Some kids are just raised with the basic human ability to not treat people like shit.
 
[quote name='bvharris']I'm pretty sure there's a third option. Some kids are just raised with the basic human ability to not treat people like shit.[/QUOTE]

Shhh. I want him to bet me. I have a mortgage I can pay off. Shit. Get in on the action.
 
[quote name='spmahn']Except that part of the problem is that it clearly doesn't and didn't haunt these kids that their actions led this girl to commit suicide. They mocked her on Facebook even after her death, made jokes about her funeral, and continued their assault even after she was no longer around to defend herself.

Sadly I do agree with you that these kids won't get punished nearly as severely as they should. At worst they'll end up with some serious community service, but will otherwise go about their normal lives.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, no kidding!

If I had teased, mistreated, or bullied someone and then she hurt or killed herself, (whether it was my fault directly or not) I don't think I'd be able to live with myself. It seems to me that some people do not have a conscience...

Steinbeck put it best in East of Eden:
"I believe there are monsters born in the world to human parents. Some you can see, misshapen and horrible, with huge heads or tiny bodies. . . . And just as there are physical monsters, can there not be mental or psychic monsters born? The face and body may be perfect, but if a twisted gene or a malformed egg can produce physical monsters, may not the same process produce a malformed soul?"
 
[quote name='bvharris']I'm pretty sure there's a third option. Some kids are just raised with the basic human ability to not treat people like shit.[/QUOTE]

Judging from the paranoid reactions of the lousy father - I'll stick by what I said about FoC and his kids.
 
[quote name='WrexManor']Judging from the paranoid reactions of the lousy father - I'll stick by what I said about FoC and his kids.[/QUOTE]

Outstanding.

How much do you want to bet whether or not both of my kids are bullies?
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']I wonder how deep the rabbit hole is?[/QUOTE]

hopefully its not as deep as the meat plow these bully's have coming to them.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Wasn't she an exchange student?

EDIT: My mistake. It says immigrant.[/QUOTE]

I'm kind of surprised that racial slurs are still being hurled at the Irish in Boston of all places. I'd expect that in the Commonwealth but not America, and especially not Boston.
 
These rotten kids deserve to be sentenced to life in prison. That outta make an example out of their kind. It's a pity though that the victim had to be white for any justice to be done. If she was black I doubt this racist nation would even take notice.
 
[quote name='rumblebear']These rotten kids deserve to be sentenced to life in prison. That outta make an example out of their kind. It's a pity though that the victim had to be white for any justice to be done. If she was black I doubt this racist nation would even take notice.[/QUOTE]

You're not serious, are you? If you are being sarcastic, then please ignore the below (in fact, if you aren't being sarcastic, then I'd be concerned about you).

If she were Black, both Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would be on location fighting for face time... and it would be a national story: A Group of White Racist Teens Leads to the Tragic Suicide of a Poor Black Girl.

Don't get me wrong, that would be equally bad, but it's not like it would be glossed over in the media!
 
[quote name='rumblebear']These rotten kids deserve to be sentenced to life in prison. That outta make an example out of their kind. It's a pity though that the victim had to be white for any justice to be done. If she was black I doubt this racist nation would even take notice.[/QUOTE]

drive by poster
 
[quote name='BigT']You're not serious, are you? If you are being sarcastic, then please ignore the below (in fact, if you aren't being sarcastic, then I'd be concerned about you).

If she were Black, both Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would be on location fighting for face time... and it would be a national story: A Group of White Racist Teens Leads to the Tragic Suicide of a Poor Black Girl.

Don't get me wrong, that would be equally bad, but it's not like it would be glossed over in the media![/QUOTE]


I agree, the media is all over it when it's a pretty young white girl...but if it was an average looking girl, or it was a male, then it would not get much attention...heck remember the who Natalie Holoway from 5 years ago?
The media was all over that, but it's like crazy to believe that this sort of thing (bullying) only happens to whites as it happens to anyone, just the media is pro white.
 
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/04/06/massachusetts.bullying.suicide/index.html?hpt=T2

ummm...ok... what a bunch of fucking turds. They are now going to waste the states time and tax payer money by dragging this for on for months. They know they fucked up big time but they don't want to take responsibility. They need to be punished to be taught a seriously lesson because if not, they are simply going to repeat this because they "got away" with this shit. Not the chair or life imprisonment, but something really harsh.
 
[quote name='ITDEFX']http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/04/06/massachusetts.bullying.suicide/index.html?hpt=T2

ummm...ok... what a bunch of fucking turds. They are now going to waste the states time and tax payer money by dragging this for on for months. They know they fucked up big time but they don't want to take responsibility. They need to be punished to be taught a seriously lesson because if not, they are simply going to repeat this because they "got away" with this shit. Not the chair or life imprisonment, but something really harsh.[/QUOTE]

Not to defend the bullies, but you typically claim not guilty. The prosecutor is throwing the book at them. All of the charges probably won't stick. Also, an united front gives the opportunity for somebody to cut a deal with the prosecutor and get out of jail free.
 
If she were Black, both Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would be on location fighting for face time... and it would be a national story: A Group of White Racist Teens Leads to the Tragic Suicide of a Poor Black Girl.

Don't get me wrong, that would be equally bad, but it's not like it would be glossed over in the media!
Click to expand...

If your grandmother had a penis she would be your grandfather.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Not to defend the bullies, but you typically claim not guilty. The prosecutor is throwing the book at them. All of the charges probably won't stick. Also, an united front gives the opportunity for somebody to cut a deal with the prosecutor and get out of jail free.[/QUOTE]

God Bless the United States of America Justice System.....where a high paid lawyer can get you out of any jam even if it is your fault! :roll:

Well something has to stick on them. Like I said before if nothing is done, it will show every bully out there that they CAN get away with this shit.
 
[quote name='IRHari']If your grandmother had a penis she would be your grandfather.[/QUOTE]


Dude, wtf? Stay on topic.
 
[quote name='BigT']

If she were Black, both Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would be on location fighting for face time... and it would be a national story: A Group of White Racist Teens Leads to the Tragic Suicide of a Poor Black Girl.

Don't get me wrong, that would be equally bad, but it's not like it would be glossed over in the media![/QUOTE]


Dude anytime a white child is lost in a walmart its national news, minority kids go missing everyday and no one gives two shits.
 
[quote name='ITDEFX']God Bless the United States of America Justice System.....where a high paid lawyer can get you out of any jam even if it is your fault! :roll:

Well something has to stick on them. Like I said before if nothing is done, it will show every bully out there that they CAN get away with this shit.[/QUOTE]

I don't know about that. I think the publicity has already done something, kids are waking up to the fact that the law applies to them too and that if they use facebook as a weapon it is the perfect smoking gun. I'm sure this case gives pause to every kid and parent who sees the names and photos of these bullies in the paper. And it can't be helping the bullies' college admissions.

I'd like to see these kids get some punishment, maybe even jail time, but I think that no matter what happens the prosecutor's bold action thus far has already sent a message.
 
I'm late to the party on this one, but how are they charging the bullies with felonies? If they harassed her (physically and/or mentally), that should be dealt with, but she killed herself.

The reaction can't define the crime.
 
Dude, wtf? Stay on topic.
Click to expand...
I am on topic. BigT is attacking something that isn't there. 'IF' they were black...well, they're not, so instead of addressing the IF situation just address the way it is now.

Don't get me wrong, that would be equally bad, but it's not like it would be glossed over in the media!
Click to expand...

It would actually be worse if the victim was a black girl because there would be that racial component which might be in play there. But she isn't a black girl and it's still a tragedy.
 
I forget the technical/legal term for this, but it's something that they can get charged with and go to jail for...not as hard as if it was a direct murder but it can put them in hot water.
 
[quote name='BigT']You're not serious, are you? If you are being sarcastic, then please ignore the below (in fact, if you aren't being sarcastic, then I'd be concerned about you).

If she were Black, both Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would be on location fighting for face time... and it would be a national story: A Group of White Racist Teens Leads to the Tragic Suicide of a Poor Black Girl.

Don't get me wrong, that would be equally bad, but it's not like it would be glossed over in the media![/QUOTE]

I like how a white teen's suicide resulting from abuse at the hands of other white teens is seen by you as an opportunity to malign Black Americans.
 
[quote name='willardhaven']I'm late to the party on this one, but how are they charging the bullies with felonies? If they harassed her (physically and/or mentally), that should be dealt with, but she killed herself.

The reaction can't define the crime.[/QUOTE]

Among other things they allegedly threw a soda can at her head from a moving car, sent her threatening text messages, and two of the boys committed statutory rape.

I look at it this way - if a bank robber pulls a stickup job and the bank manager gets so frightened he has a heart attack, the bank robber can be convicted of anything from manslaughter to murder. I think an analogous case can be made here.
 
The problem with your logic Camoor is causality. I think it's harder to prove bullying and harassment lead to suicide than the threat of death to cause a heart attack.

I am not siding with the bullies at all, but we need to make sure we're not just exacting revenge.
 
[quote name='willardhaven']The problem with your logic Camoor is causality. I think it's harder to prove bullying and harassment lead to suicide than the threat of death to cause a heart attack.

I am not siding with the bullies at all, but we need to make sure we're not just exacting revenge.[/QUOTE]


Well if the jury is full of people who were bullied as a child, then you bet you ass they are going to find those kids guilty. Bullies tend to get away with a lot of shit and they grow up to even bigger assholes to people as their managers.
 
[quote name='willardhaven']The problem with your logic Camoor is causality. I think it's harder to prove bullying and harassment lead to suicide than the threat of death to cause a heart attack.

I am not siding with the bullies at all, but we need to make sure we're not just exacting revenge.[/QUOTE]

Innocent until proven guilty is the law of the land.

However it's good to remember that to convict you simply need the removal of reasonable doubt. Juries today are plagued with the CSI effect, they want DNA evidence or fingerprints but real life is rarely that cut-and-dry.

Don't worry about the alleged bullies, they protected by high-price lawyers and will be tried by a jury of peers in a wealthy suburb that seems to value circling the wagons above all else. Frankly I'm more concerned that the jury is going to vote against their convictions in the name of keeping peace with the neighbors.
 
[quote name='camoor']Innocent until proven guilty is the law of the land.

However it's good to remember that to convict you simply need the removal of reasonable doubt. Juries today are plagued with the CSI effect, they want DNA evidence or fingerprints but real life is rarely that cut-and-dry.

Don't worry about the alleged bullies, they protected by high-price lawyers and will be tried by a jury of peers in a wealthy suburb that seems to value circling the wagons above all else. Frankly I'm more concerned that the jury is going to vote against their convictions in the name of keeping peace with the neighbors.[/QUOTE]


And I am pretty sure that most of these kids will move out of that neighborhood with the parents saying "I am afraid for my child's life!" when the kids charges are dismissed there will still be a lot of angry parents/kids who still want justice!
 
Time for a little thread derailing.

The Irish may look like the British but they have more in common with southern Europeans temperamentally. They are less intelligent, energetic and creative than the Italians and probably even worse at managing their own social and economic development.
butcher.jpg

http://www.movievillains.com/images/butcher.jpg

Is this going to be another post only The Crotch will appreciate?
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Time for a little thread derailing.

The Irish may look like the British but they have more in common with southern Europeans temperamentally. They are less intelligent, energetic and creative than the Italians and probably even worse at managing their own social and economic development.
butcher.jpg

http://www.movievillains.com/images/butcher.jpg

Is this going to be another post only The Crotch will appreciate?[/QUOTE]

19thomas-600.jpg
 
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