The Bush Administration's Secret Legal Memos

I like the doctor on hand for the emergency tracheotomies for when the "not torture" waterboarding doesn't go according to plan.

This is criminal stuff, folks.
 
Do we not want to talk about torture when we can talk about teabags?

Do we not want to have a discussion about how the standard of accountability for behavior and action is set when we could be talking about whether or not Obama bowed to the Saudi King?

Don't we want to talk about 2 people being waterboarded almost a combined 300 times when we can talk about Obama shaking hands with Chavez?

Is this no longer relevant to you all?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Do we not want to talk about torture when we can talk about teabags?

Do we not want to have a discussion about how the standard of accountability for behavior and action is set when we could be talking about whether or not Obama bowed to the Saudi King?

Don't we want to talk about 2 people being waterboarded almost a combined 300 times when we can talk about Obama shaking hands with Chavez?

Is this no longer relevant to you all?[/quote]

It doesn't really matter to me. They could have used the waterboarding technique on them 500 times and I wouldn't care. Sorry, but what we do to extract information from enemy combatants just isn't important enough to make it on my care list.

Now you can blah blah blah about why it's so bad and how cruel and inhumane it is.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']Now you can blah blah blah about why it's so bad and how cruel and inhumane it is.[/quote]

Shouldn't we better than the terrorists in terms of compassion as opposed to torture?
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']It doesn't really matter to me. They could have used the waterboarding technique on them 500 times and I wouldn't care. Sorry, but what we do to extract information from enemy combatants just isn't important enough to make it on my care list.

Now you can blah blah blah about why it's so bad and how cruel and inhumane it is.[/QUOTE]

This type of thinking really scares the shit out of me.
 
The issue of humane treatment is secondary to the fact that torture is simply ineffective.

I don't even need to play the humane card, since it's irrelevant.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Shouldn't we better than the terrorists in terms of compassion as opposed to torture?[/QUOTE]
Compassion? That's absurd.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']It doesn't really matter to me. They could have used the waterboarding technique on them 500 times and I wouldn't care. Sorry, but what we do to extract information from enemy combatants just isn't important enough to make it on my care list.

Now you can blah blah blah about why it's so bad and how cruel and inhumane it is.[/QUOTE]

I think it is impossible that perd the turd is simply trolling but it is literally impossible to tell nowadays.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']The issue of humane treatment is secondary to the fact that torture is simply ineffective.

I don't even need to play the humane card, since it's irrelevant.[/quote]

Torture is very effective at hurting people.

Wait, are you trying to use torture to extract accurate information from somebody?
 
[quote name='Zing']I don't normally post this kind of stuff, but it was rather interesting reading the legal opinions on torture.

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/general/olc_memos.html

I saw a video of some dude getting waterboarded, and it didn't look fun. These lawyers should give it a try before claiming it is "ok".[/quote]

It is very OK, especially when those ***holes are over there cutting peoples heads off... And to the guy who said torture is an ineffective way to gain intelligence... you are wrong. A lot of civilians don't realize that we are a country at war... Even worse civilians criticize every little thing that the military\government does over there. Instead of criticism - send the troops downrange a package filled with some beef jerky and toiletries. They are all doing a great job... Prove it to them by showing your support, instead of claiming that waterboarding is wrong. It's because of the military that we sleep safely every night.
 
[quote name='Anthony.Miller9']They are all doing a great job... Prove it to them by showing your support, instead of claiming that waterboarding is wrong.[/QUOTE]

So it's impossible to support our troops if we think waterboarding constitutes torture and is therefore wrong? fuck you.
 
[quote name='Anthony.Miller9']It is very OK, especially when those ***holes are over there cutting peoples heads off... [/quote]

If goal is to be no better than "those assholes", you are correct.

[quote name='Anthony.Miller9']And to the guy who said torture is an ineffective way to gain intelligence... you are wrong. [/quote]

That would be Army Col. Stuart Herrington and retired Air Force Col. John Rothrock.

[quote name='Anthony.Miller9']A lot of civilians don't realize that we are a country at war... [/quote]

Considering how many people are AGAINST the wars. I would think only a minority of civilians don't realize we are at war.

[quote name='Anthony.Miller9']Even worse civilians criticize every little thing that the military\government does over there. [/quote]

The military and government are beholden to the people. We pay their bills. We're their employer. It isn't the other way around.

[quote name='Anthony.Miller9']Instead of criticism - send the troops downrange a package filled with some beef jerky and toiletries. [/quote]

The troops need plane tickets home more than jerky and buttwipe.

[quote name='Anthony.Miller9']They are all doing a great job... Prove it to them by showing your support, instead of claiming that waterboarding is wrong.[/quote]

The grunts are doing a great job. The leaders are the ones trying to polish turds.

[quote name='Anthony.Miller9']It's because of the military that we sleep safely every night.[/quote]

I pay my taxes. My taxes pay for them. That and geographical isolation from legitimate enemies keeps our populace safe.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Do we not want to talk about torture when we can talk about teabags?

Do we not want to have a discussion about how the standard of accountability for behavior and action is set when we could be talking about whether or not Obama bowed to the Saudi King?

Don't we want to talk about 2 people being waterboarded almost a combined 300 times when we can talk about Obama shaking hands with Chavez?

Is this no longer relevant to you all?[/QUOTE]

We did discuss torture recently in this thread.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I like the doctor on hand for the emergency tracheotomies for when the "not torture" waterboarding doesn't go according to plan.

This is criminal stuff, folks.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='mykevermin']Do we not want to talk about torture when we can talk about teabags?

Do we not want to have a discussion about how the standard of accountability for behavior and action is set when we could be talking about whether or not Obama bowed to the Saudi King?

Don't we want to talk about 2 people being waterboarded almost a combined 300 times when we can talk about Obama shaking hands with Chavez?

Is this no longer relevant to you all?[/QUOTE]

Yes, this is criminal stuff, so I think the Obama administration's reaction is relevant: http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222099
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=46949

Looks like the waterboarding worked pretty good to me.[/QUOTE]

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/08/13/070813fa_fact_mayer

This long-ish article contends that these techniques DO NOT work to the capacity that you believe that they do. I'm sure that, in some cases, some useful information is gleaned. Is that enough, though, to completely trash the US's moral high ground and image across the world? Wouldn't the goodwill of people worldwide, and especially in the "mainstream" Islamic population, be more useful to fighting terrorists? Isn't it possible (your CNS News article talks about multiple sources) that we would have found this information out anyway, without resorting to torture?

The CIA isn't exactly a trustworthy source, by the way. Read a book like Legacy of Ashes, by Tim Weiner. It will, hopefully, cause you to rethink your reliance on what they say and do.

What's the latest news on Suzanne Boyle, btw???
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Shouldn't we better than the terrorists in terms of compassion as opposed to torture?[/QUOTE]

I guess we'll find out. I'm anxious to see how the new smiley glad-hand/bowing approach on all international policy pans out in the long run.

Here is to hoping we don't have to hear the one side of what's left of the partisan types on Galaxy News Radio gloating they were right all along.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Doesn't matter. Don't you know that we can't even verbally abuse POW's? No yelling. No hurting of feelings. We're entering the "take no prisoners" era now, because there is no reason to.[/quote]

:lol: I like that.

...

Considering the world's main interest in the Middle East is based on oil, is it better to wait them out?

Their oil is going to be gone in 50 years. Their populations will continue growing faster than ours. They won't have the technology to invade us.

So...

Why pour trillions of dollars into subduing them when enduring them for the next 50 years will leave them in the same position as modern day Africa?

Better yet, we could spend trillions of dollars converting the world to green energy and turning the Middle East into Africa in 5 years.
 
The timing of this makes it very much look like it was designed to distract the public from the government spending outrage of late.
 
I can't really add anything, torture doesn't work and is bad for the States' image abroad. Also, as some crazy fools mentioned, it's just not nice.
 
[quote name='willardhaven']I can't really add anything, torture doesn't work and is bad for the States' image abroad. Also, as some crazy fools mentioned, it's just not nice.[/quote]

doesn't know how to read.
 
From the article that you linked to...

“The information gained from these techniques was valuable in some instances, but there is no way of knowing whether the same information could have been obtained through other means,” Admiral Blair said in a written statement issued last night. “The bottom line is these techniques have hurt our image around the world, the damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security."
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='The Crotch']From the article that you linked to...[/quote]

I love how the media tries to say 'we were lucky and it'll never work again' and no one seems to notice.

I personally don't care what we do to terrorists. They behead their prisoners and then we waterboard those same people, somehow we're the bad guys? That doesn't make sense to me.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']
I personally don't care what we do to terrorists. They behead their prisoners and then we waterboard those same people, somehow we're the bad guys? That doesn't make sense to me.[/quote]
Yeah! That 14-year-old Afghan boy accused of throwing a grenade at American troops after they had attacked the compound in which he was living?

fuck him, man! We want our motherfucking revenge!
 
It is torture. When Japan did it in WW2 to American soldiers we prosecuted them. When the Khmer Rouge did it, we labeled it as torture. Is it only when brown skin people do it is it illegal?

And doing this shit does not help our soldiers. It creates more harm for them. This is just prime propaganda for extremist groups. Not only for recruitment but also for donations.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Yeah! That 14-year-old Afghan boy accused of throwing a grenade at American troops after they had attacked the compound in which he was living?

fuck him, man! We want our motherfucking revenge![/quote]

Come on, everybody would rather be waterboarded than go to high school.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Come on, everybody would rather be waterboarded than go to high school.[/quote]

SURF.jpg


Obviously.
 
Meh, it's only torture if somebody does it to us. I stand by the contention that we should do whatever we can to get information, whether or not we get any information out of it.

I mean in the end, come on, they started it.
 
[quote name='SpazX']Meh, it's only torture if somebody does it to us. I stand by the contention that we should do whatever we can to get information, whether or not we get any information out of it.

I mean in the end, come on, they started it.[/QUOTE]
Who is "they"?

Are you saying you only support torture after someone is found guilty at trial?
 
[quote name='rickonker']Who is "they"?

Are you saying you only support torture after someone is found guilty at trial?[/quote]

"They" is whoever we're attacking/torturing.

And we wouldn't be torturing them if they weren't guilty right? And they must have information to be gained, otherwise torturing them would be useless, but it can't be useless because we're doing it.

C'mon, I have morals, but I can't let them keep me from doing immoral things to someone who might know something that could potentially hurt me.
 
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