The Decapitation of the american captive

[quote name='JakeT81588']im underage :( everyone else on these boards are like above 21. i feel so young. can u guys tell that i am?[/quote]

Nope couldn't tell. I'm over 21 and can't bring myself to watch it despite my desensitivity.
 
Reality's Fringe said:
*Edited*

I edited this post to remove the link. While I feel that people need to see reality, I can respect the fact that it is indeed a touchy subject and a direct link is not proper.
Click to expand...

People who don't want to see it shouldn't click on the link. People who don't want to watch it for 'conscience' reasons or because they don't want to see evil things or are too afraid are pussies, plain and simple.

This should be required viewing by every freedom loving american in this country. Don't fool yourselves, this was no retaliation for mistreatment of prisoners. This is standard operating procedure for those wasteoids we call terrorists. It will not stop if we treat prisoners better, it will not stop if we leave Iraq. It will not stop until all americans are dead, period. When they run out of americans, christians and jews, they will go back to killing their own as they do on an every other day schedule. They intend to rule by fear and terror and they need us out of the way in order to do so.

There will be no appeasment of their kind, no deals, no treaties because they have only one objective: Death to all opposition of their authority to speak for god. Because of this fact, our objective is also clear.

We cannot afford to be soft because they will not stop. Weakness will only expidite their goal to destroy us. How many other ways can I say this until some of you marshmallows get it through your skulls? That man who's head got cut off was YOU, or will be if we give them any room for hope. Regardless of your political opinions, they will not stop until YOU are the one on the chopping block. Who would you rather see get sawed next? One of them, or one of your own? We need to desensitize ourselves and start getting angry about these people and start exterminating them before they can sharpen those saws.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']
Reality's Fringe said:
*Edited*

I edited this post to remove the link. While I feel that people need to see reality, I can respect the fact that it is indeed a touchy subject and a direct link is not proper.
Click to expand...

People who don't want to see it shouldn't click on the link. People who don't want to watch it for 'conscience' reasons or because they don't want to see evil things or are too afraid are pussies, plain and simple.

This should be required viewing by every freedom loving american in this country. Don't fool yourselves, this was no retaliation for mistreatment of prisoners. This is standard operating procedure for those wasteoids we call terrorists. It will not stop if we treat prisoners better, it will not stop if we leave Iraq. It will not stop until all americans are dead, period. When they run out of americans, christians and jews, they will go back to killing their own as they do on an every other day schedule. They intend to rule by fear and terror and they need us out of the way in order to do so.

There will be no appeasment of their kind, no deals, no treaties because they have only one objective: Death to all opposition of their authority to speak for god. Because of this fact, our objective is also clear.

We cannot afford to be soft because they will not stop. Weakness will only expidite their goal to destroy us. How many other ways can I say this until some of you marshmallows get it through your skulls? That man who's head got cut off was YOU, or will be if we give them any room for hope. Regardless of your political opinions, they will not stop until YOU are the one on the chopping block. Who would you rather see get sawed next? One of them, or one of your own? We need to desensitize ourselves and start getting angry about these people and start exterminating them before they can sharpen those saws.[/quote]

So when do YOU ship out for Iraq?
 
[quote name='SneakyPenguin']now, my next idea may be extreme, so dont take it personally.

those who tortured the prisoners should be held responsible for his death.

they should be charged with at least reckless endangerment, maybe even manslaughter, seeing as how their arctions directly caused the death of an innocent man.[/quote]

You are in high school aren't you?
If so thats good just be sure to stay in it and maintain a b+ average my god

You know what makes me so mad at you is that i got friends and family over there in Iraq and you have absolutely no clue what they are going through mentally. My friend Louis had to see one of his friends get dragged around in the street, imagine what that does to your morale and imagine how much hate that breeds. Just do yourself a favor everyone is intitled to in opinion, it's just my advice that i would keep the rest of your uneducated, dumb, and retarded ideas to yourself on this topic because your making yourself look REALLY ignorant thanks,

Maynerd

*edited for the rest of content thought i needed to add more*
 
[quote name='Maynard'][quote name='SneakyPenguin']now, my next idea may be extreme, so dont take it personally.

those who tortured the prisoners should be held responsible for his death.

they should be charged with at least reckless endangerment, maybe even manslaughter, seeing as how their arctions directly caused the death of an innocent man.[/quote]

You are in high school aren't you?
If so thats good just be sure to stay in it and maintain a b+ average my god

You know what makes me so mad at you is that i got friends and family over there in Iraq and you have absolutely no clue what they are going through mentally. My friend Louis had to see one of his friends get dragged around in the street, imagine what that does to your morale and imagine how much hate that breeds. Just do yourself a favor everyone is intitled to in opinion, it's just my advice that i would keep the rest of your uneducated, dumb, and retarded ideas to yourself on this topic because your making yourself look REALLY ignorant thanks,

Maynerd

*edited for the rest of content thought i needed to add more*[/quote]

while i dont agree with him on that, hes not making himself look ignorant, your responses to him are making you look closed minded.

"OMGzZ go b4kK t0 t3h high sk3wl!1!!"

judging people on age is pretty weak.

as for your friends and family in iraq, i hope they return safley, as i hope everyone does. but they enlisted. and to me enlisting in the military pretty much puts your life in the hands of people that dont know what they are doing.

im sure their direct leader is somewhat comptent, but do you relly think the people in dc do anything for the good of the troops? they sure do, any time it will make them look good on tv. i really feel sorry for anyone in the military being toyed around with by the gov.

how many times have your friends been told they would come home on X date, only to have that pushed back 6 months or more? i dont see why anyone would sign up for service because its clear that the gov. dosent care about morale or human emotions.

i cant wait to leave this country
 
I know i shouldn't be judging on age, but with age comes wisdom and unfortunately i remember being in high school and saying all sorts of stupid things, only to regret them later. They've been told they were coming home numerous times they finally got to my friends did at least 101st, got to come home which was nice. I sorta of chuckled because i think you look as if your young enough to probably be a junior or senior in high school and you sorta proved my statement in a little way

"i can't wait to leave america"

Laugh, i used to same the same ole' shit when i was in high school because i thought i was so oppressed, but until you've gone out of america, and not canada doesn't count sorry :p, you'll realize that america really has alot going for it, that's why are women and men go over there to fight because they've traveled they realize that the rest of this world pretty much sucks compared to us, honestly

Maynerd
 
[quote name='Maynard']I know i shouldn't be judging on age, but with age comes wisdom and unfortunately i remember being in high school and saying all sorts of stupid things, only to regret them later. They've been told they were coming home numerous times they finally got to my friends did at least 101st, got to come home which was nice. I sorta of chuckled because i think you look as if your young enough to probably be a junior or senior in high school and you sorta proved my statement in a little way

"i can't wait to leave america"

Laugh, i used to same the same ole' shit when i was in high school because i thought i was so oppressed, but until you've gone out of america, and not canada doesn't count sorry :p, you'll realize that america really has alot going for it, that's why are women and men go over there to fight because they've traveled they realize that the rest of this world pretty much sucks compared to us, honestly

Maynerd[/quote]

well, im not in high school, i often get mistaken for looking young, but im 21 and in art school. im not oppressed in anyway, i just really disagree with alot of the choices the gov. makes, and i would move to canada, i love canada. i grew up less than 5 mins from the boarder and its such a more positive place to be than america. these less tension there, the people are more friendly. its just a nice place. i know "the grass is always greener on the other side" but i honestly believe canada cares about its people. their gov. is comparably small to the US, which makes it easier for people to be heard.
 
Canada has a lot less people to look after though, and that makes a huge difference.

As for the age thing, take a look at some of the responses I got last night for a friggin' joke. How can you take anyone seriously who resorts to namecalling or 'stfu'? I can almost always tell when a poster is a teenager and then I usually pay them no mind. Sadly the difference cannot be explained, only learned through experience.

BTW, punqsux your sig banner is great. Got a big laugh first time I saw it.
 
so you're saying i have a right to voice my opinions, but keep them to myself? i am in high school, big whoop. i have personal feeling on this war. i support the troops, but this was jsut another act of war. a very brutal, and probably unjustified act, but still, it's war. it has to be expected.

lets just agree to disagree and not make this a flame war.
 
[quote name='PsyClerk']Canada has a lot less people to look after though, and that makes a huge difference. [/quote]

you are correct sir =o)

another reason is that they are a more peaceful nation. i believe the last war they were heavily involved in was WWII, i could be wrong, i know they lend support sometimes, but we've had 5 major wars since then, and 6 if you count the cold war.
 
[quote name='SneakyPenguin']so your saying i have a right to voice my opinions, but keep them to myself? i am in high school, big whoop. i have personal feeling on this war. i support the troops, but this was jsut another act of war. a very brutal, and probably unjustified act, but still, it's war. it has to be expected.[/quote]

I'm not saying that at all. I am saying don't expect me not to color your opinions in my own mind and react (or not react) on that. At your age, I thought I had all the answers, too. Trust me, ten years from now you will be doing good if you aren't thinking "damn kids don't know anything these days!"
 
[quote name='PsyClerk'][quote name='SneakyPenguin']so your saying i have a right to voice my opinions, but keep them to myself? i am in high school, big whoop. i have personal feeling on this war. i support the troops, but this was jsut another act of war. a very brutal, and probably unjustified act, but still, it's war. it has to be expected.[/quote]

I'm not saying that at all. I am saying don't expect me not to color your opinions in my own mind and react (or not react) on that. At your age, I thought I had all the answers, too. Trust me, ten years from now you will be doing good if you aren't thinking "damn kids don't know anything these days!"[/quote]

im sorry if you got the idea, but i was not referring to you, i was referring to Meynard. i was only trying to defend my position.

and btw, i already hate kids :p
 
That video was appalling. I'm kinda sick to my stomach. To think I felt like condoning the Iraqi prisoner abuse even though I know it's wrong. Hmmmm I wonder why? Oh what the hell do I know. It's people like me that assure hate in the world will never die only manifest.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']
Reality's Fringe said:
*Edited*

I edited this post to remove the link. While I feel that people need to see reality, I can respect the fact that it is indeed a touchy subject and a direct link is not proper.
Click to expand...

People who don't want to see it shouldn't click on the link. People who don't want to watch it for 'conscience' reasons or because they don't want to see evil things or are too afraid are pussies, plain and simple.

This should be required viewing by every freedom loving american in this country. Don't fool yourselves, this was no retaliation for mistreatment of prisoners. This is standard operating procedure for those wasteoids we call terrorists. It will not stop if we treat prisoners better, it will not stop if we leave Iraq. It will not stop until all americans are dead, period. When they run out of americans, christians and jews, they will go back to killing their own as they do on an every other day schedule. They intend to rule by fear and terror and they need us out of the way in order to do so.

There will be no appeasment of their kind, no deals, no treaties because they have only one objective: Death to all opposition of their authority to speak for god. Because of this fact, our objective is also clear.

We cannot afford to be soft because they will not stop. Weakness will only expidite their goal to destroy us. How many other ways can I say this until some of you marshmallows get it through your skulls? That man who's head got cut off was YOU, or will be if we give them any room for hope. Regardless of your political opinions, they will not stop until YOU are the one on the chopping block. Who would you rather see get sawed next? One of them, or one of your own? We need to desensitize ourselves and start getting angry about these people and start exterminating them before they can sharpen those saws.[/quote]

So you propose ethnic cleansing?

I find your comments VERY stereotypical and insulting to those Arabs who have nothing to do with terrorism or violence.

[quote name='cnn.com']
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/13/iraq.berg/index.html
Three Arab states -- Saudi Arabia, Jordan and the United Arab Emirates --- are condemning the beheading of American Nicholas Berg by his Iraqi captors, shown in a video that appeared on an Islamist Web site.

"There is no doubt that killing detainees and mutilating the remains of the dead are acts which are condemned by all religions and contrary to the morals of all nations and peoples," Saudi Ambassador Prince Bandar bin Sultan said in a statement released Wednesday.

"The Al-Zarqawi group is a criminal, deviant and un-Islamic group, allied with bin Laden and the criminals of Al Qaeda who are killing even Muslims and Arabs for no reason.

"Accordingly, it is not out of character for them to commit acts that violate the teachings of Islam, a noble religion that deplores such acts."[/quote]

What makes you think americans have more rights then anyone else?
 
I saw a brief clip of the video online recently, and I must agree it's quite disturbing. The clip I saw had an erratic frame rate and lacked sound, but it was still pretty unsettling. I've seen lots of movies over the years that are considerably more graphic than this, but the fact that this video showed a "real" person being murdered was the part that got to me. That's the part that made feel sick afterward.

I can't imagine living in a place where such barbaric violence is condoned, and I certainly wouldn't want to visit there either for any amount of money that Halliburton could pay me. Hopefully, enough rational people will see this video and put some serious thought into what should be done about it so that action will eventually be taken to minimize the chances of any more videos like this ever being made.
 
I had the misfortune to see this clip. I really wish I hadn't. I had nightmares and it is really hard to get the image out of my head. I just don't understand how one human being can do that to another. My heart and prayers really do go out to that mans family. I really do hope that they can find peace one day.
 
Horrible.

I was tempted to be an idiot and watch the movie... but I couldn't gather the heart to watch him fall.

Man.

I looked in the paper today, I saw his family crying their eyes out. It broke my heart.
 
why shoot them? theres no point anymore in any of this. This world is gonna end someday and im very mad at all of us for letting this go on. We're all selfish and all so stuck up in protecting our beliefs that this stuff happens. We have no one to blame but ourselves, each and all.
 
[quote name='thingsfallnapart']why shoot them? theres no point anymore in any of this. This world is gonna end someday and im very mad at all of us for letting this go on. We're all selfish and all so stuck up in protecting our beliefs that this stuff happens. We have no one to blame but ourselves, each and all.[/quote]

id agree, violence counter acting violence can only build up like a snowball going down a hill, eventully it'll hit a tree and smash into a million pieces while destroying itself. and i'd say we're pretty far down that hill
 
Im well aware of how cruel things can be in this world.

When I was in Italy last year, I was with another US class that was being tought by a local italian. We visited a memorial park, where in this town the nazi's, in the middle of the night had rounded up all the local men. Then brought them to this ditch and killed them one by one in front of one another. The crime was witnessed by villager who was hiding. In addition not all of them died right away so they were tossed, shot in the head waiting, while watching others die.

Stone memorials were there with each person and their picture.

all this stuff... 9/11.. etc. Think of how lucky we are in comparison, yea some hate the US. But would you rather be in a grass hut with flies bothering you all day?

Berg, should be remember and not forgotten. The reason im not looking at this. Is not that I can't stomach it. Its that I feel that the least I can do is remember what caused this, and be thankful for what I have. And I can owe it to the guy not to see his head being cut off. Honestly if it happened to one of the regulars in here. A CAG friend like Punqsux, would you still watch it?
 
Duh...of course you should vote. Have never missed any election local or federal...been voting as a good democrat since the doomed Mondale/Ferraro ticket of 1984...

Each vote does make a difference...the 2000 election proved that.

Don't like what's going on...vote vote vote.
 
I watched the video yesterday and it was very disturbing to say the least. I'm glad the film quality wasn't any better or I would have puked. And the screaming was the worst.

The pictures coming out of Iraq are sickening on both sides. This is what war breeds. I will always respect the leaders who choose peace over war.

The reason this war is so problematic for a lot of people is that it was pre-emptive. We chose to go to war even though Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. We did not have to have this war and now it's a fucking mess. We have created more terrorists than we have eliminated and we will be fighting this war for generations.
 
[quote name='from above']The reason this war is so problematic for a lot of people is that it was pre-emptive. We chose to go to war even though Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. We did not have to have this war and now it's a shaq-fuing mess. We have created more terrorists than we have eliminated and we will be fighting this war for generations. [/quote]

first of all the war was not pre-emptive. We are enforcing the UN resolution 1441 alond with previous resolutions, because the UN did not have the fortitude to do so itself. Funny thing about leadership by committee, it never seems to get anything done. Everyone keeps saying this war was becauase of 9/11 and bush said there was a link but this is simply untrue. If the UN had the backbone to force Sadam to capitulate in the first place, perhaps none of this would have turned out as it has. Remeber, there was one person besises George Bush who could have prevented all of this: Saddam Hussein. All he had to do was stop fucking around and none of this would have happened.

I suggest you go to the UN website and read resolutions 1441, 1134, 1115, 707,700, 687 and others.

here's a good place to start:
http://www.iraqwatch.org/un/Index_SecCounRes.html

you will see a pattern of misbehavior, a pattern of threatened enforcement, a pattern of avoidence by Saddam to thwart the world opinion. Peace is a good thing, yes, but peace at all costs is not always the best alternative. We waited until the Pearl Harbor attack to enter WWII because of the same philosophy. Unfortunately, going to war is sometimes necessary to defeat an evil before it can become too powerful.
 
I have never heard anyone argue yet that this was wasn't pre-emptive. It was. They did not attack us first.

It was hard for Saddam to turn over all his WMD (our "original recipe" excuse for going to war) when he apparently didn't have any. If they are found after I post this, I will issue a retraction.

And when did it become our job to enforce every UN resolution? And why wasn't it a UN force if that was the reason?
 
I guess you'll have to as the UN why they don't feel the need to enforce resolutions. It was not pre-emptive, it was enforcement. How many times does a police officer have to tell you to put your hands up before you get shot? 3 times? 30 times? 12 years ? there comes a time when someone has to actually stand in front of the line drawn in the sand.

Saddam may not have had these so-called WMD, but then that's all the more reason to stop dicking around with the inspecrtion process and allow 'complete and unfettered' access, which he never did, nor intended to do.

Why is it our job to enforce resolutions? When the potential implications of procrastination could pose a threat to our security, not only in a direct sense of WMD being deployed, but any terrorist sponsoring nation that sees Saddams defiance as a free pass to develop weapons of their own and hold other parts of the world hostage at a future date.

Someone, sometime has to put such a nation on notice or a potential global problem could erupt. No one else ever wants to 'rock the boat', so to speak. European nations are littered with the ain;'t broke don't fix it philosophy. Unfortunately, glossing over such insurrections only seem to lead to problems that always end up having to fix be fixed sooner or later.
 
Pre-emptive: hitting the other guy before he can hit you. That's what we did. It's not even debatable.

Bush had a hard-on to go after Saddam as soon as he took office. Read Bob Woodward's book - he had plans drawn up before 9/11. The UN resolutions were an excuse. Bush has never shown any respect for the UN except when it was convenient for him.

Saddam is a complete tool but he was confined to his own country. The international terrorists that actually attacked us came from Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan. But the Saudi royals are good friends with the Bush family so we can't attack them.
 
The UN resolutions were not an excuse they were the CAUSE. And it's not like we didn't give Saddam any chance to comply. We finally gave the ultamaitm in Novenber of 2002, months after countless debate in the UN. Then we gave him another 5 months to comply. Should we have given him 5 more months, 6, 7 12? forever? For those who favor peace at all costs, delay and denial are always the best option.

Of course there were plans already. Everyone keeps hammering the fact that there was a plan to invade Iraq before 9/11. Isn't that the our government's job? Don't you think there were pklans to do the same during the Clinton administration? Don't you think there are 'plans' to invade N. Korea or at least certain contingency plans for a number of millitary operations? Don't you think there was a plan to attack Germany and Japan before the Pearl Harbor attack? If you think not, then you're being naive.

Saddam is a complete tool but he was confined to his own country. The international terrorists that actually attacked us came from Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan.
Click to expand...

Yes, and the Iraqi clerics and extremists who trained in afganistan were confined also. People who don't think there are links between Iraq and Al-Queda are fooling themselves. There may not have been offical, documented links, but there were relationships nonetheless.

I really can't argue for the war as it has been implemented. I'm not a republican, nor a Bush supporter. Things haven't gone right, nor were they done right in the first place.

We both seem to have our own preformed opinions about the subject so arguing war or not war seems rather pointless. There is much blame to go around, and with all the information you seem to have in front of you, I find it fascinating thast you can blame President Bush for all the worlds ills. Your opinions seems to be more along partisan lines than objective fact.
 
No, the people who say there were no links between Iraq and Al Qaeda are waiting for someone to offer proof of a link between them. And for all the flak Bush has gotten for starting this war, if he had proof, he would have presented it by now. Just saying there is a link doens't make it so.

And I have never blamed Bush for all of the problems in the world. But he will take the blame for starting this war and all of the fallout from it.
 
I saw this thread and felt the need to express my feeling about the american that was brutally killed. I could not bring myself to watch the video. I could not stomach seeing something that horrible.

I will tell you that I was talking to my mother on the phone (she lives in another state) and as we were talking I heard this person screaming in the background. I said "Mom, what the hell is going on over there." She told me she had the radio on and the station was playing the audio from it.
My stomach turned for hours.

I am a parent , and I feel for the family. As a parent I could not go on if someone did that to my child.

Dustin
 
I hate to use your own logic against you but just saying there isn't a link doesn't make it true either. You still continue to leave at the other part responsible for this: Saddam Hussein. Had he given in and given the UN free reign, this all could have been avoided.

Do you believe these terrorists are against us because we invaded and rid the world of Saddam Hussein? Then I hope you do not also agree with the position that we should leave the torturous dictators alone and let them have free reign everywhere in the world. These terrorists want exactly the same thing: they want the freedom to terrorize peaceful islamics and force them to live by their rules. The US represents the opposition to rule by terror. Unfortunately, the recent acts committed upon prisoners have tainted that objective. Still, these vile acts pale in comparison to sawing someones head off with a knife, or shooting them in the head, or blowing them up with dynamite, which is the MO of most of the terrorists.
 
[quote name='MrBadExample']The reason this war is so problematic for a lot of people is that it was pre-emptive. We chose to go to war even though Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. We did not have to have this war and now it's a shaq-fuing mess. We have created more terrorists than we have eliminated and we will be fighting this war for generations.[/quote]

I agree with you whole-heartedly. 9/11, al Qeada and Osama bin Laden are a completely separate issue from Iraq and Saddam Housein. It also doesn't help matters that Iraq has the world's second largest oil reserves and that W's cabinet is made up of a who's who list from the U.S. oil industry. Throw in some multi-million dollar no-bid contracts for Halliburton, and I don't see how any rational person could deny the multiple conflicts of interest here.
 
I'm with you bmulligan.


Although we havn't found "stockpiles" of WMDs in Iraq, we have found:

-- chemical and biological weapons systems, plans, "recipes" and equipment, all of which could have resumed production on a moment's notice with Saddam's approval;

-- reference strains of a wide variety of biological-weapons agents (found in the home of a prominent Iraqi biological warfare scientist);

-- new research on brucella and Congo-Crimean hemorrhagic fever, and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin;

-- a prison laboratory complex for testing biological weapons on humans;

-- long-range missiles (prohibited by United Nations resolutions) suitable for delivering WMDs;

-- documents showing Saddam tried to obtain long-range ballistic missiles from North Korea;

-- facilities for manufacturing fuel propellant useful only for prohibited Scud-variant missiles.
 
I think it's funny that people are willing to blame Bush for the fallout from events in Iraq (specifically, the decapitation), but don't realize (or won't admit) that Iraq has been doing the same thing to its citizens for years. So, it's okay for people to get decapitated on a daily basis, as long as they're not Americans? It's okay for people to starve a pack of wild dogs for weeks, then throw a man's wife in to be ripped to shreds, while the husband is forced to watch? Do these people who keep crying, "Bring Our Soldiers Home" even stop to think about what will happen to the ordinary citizens of Iraq if U.S. power is removed? But I guess as long as Americans are okay, who cares what happens to people halfway across the world?
 
[quote name='abates17']I think it's funny that people are willing to blame Bush for the fallout from events in Iraq (specifically, the decapitation), but don't realize (or won't admit) that Iraq has been doing the same thing to its citizens for years. So, it's okay for people to get decapitated on a daily basis, as long as they're not Americans? It's okay for people to starve a pack of wild dogs for weeks, then throw a man's wife in to be ripped to shreds, while the husband is forced to watch? Do these people who keep crying, "Bring Our Soldiers Home" even stop to think about what will happen to the ordinary citizens of Iraq if U.S. power is removed? But I guess as long as Americans are okay, who cares what happens to people halfway across the world?[/quote]

African warlords have been abusing human rights for years. They decorate their guns with human organs like having intestines dangling from their guns. Why hasn't bush gone in and stopped that, nor even bothered to talk about it?

[quote name='MaxBiaggi3']9/11, al Qeada and Osama bin Laden are a completely separate issue from Iraq and Saddam Housein. It also doesn't help matters that Iraq has the world's second largest oil reserves and that W's cabinet is made up of a who's who list from the U.S. oil industry. Throw in some multi-million dollar no-bid contracts for Halliburton, and I don't see how any rational person could deny the multiple conflicts of interest here.[/quote]

There's your answer.
 
[quote name='asaraa']I'm with you bmulligan.


Although we havn't found "stockpiles" of WMDs in Iraq, we have found:

-- chemical and biological weapons systems, plans, "recipes" and equipment, all of which could have resumed production on a moment's notice with Saddam's approval;

-- reference strains of a wide variety of biological-weapons agents (found in the home of a prominent Iraqi biological warfare scientist);

-- new research on brucella and Congo-Crimean hemorrhagic fever, and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin;

-- a prison laboratory complex for testing biological weapons on humans;

-- long-range missiles (prohibited by United Nations resolutions) suitable for delivering WMDs;

-- documents showing Saddam tried to obtain long-range ballistic missiles from North Korea;

-- facilities for manufacturing fuel propellant useful only for prohibited Scud-variant missiles.[/quote]


Dude, alll this stuff you listed is not true. Nothing of this sort was found. The long range missle that you mention are the missles that were over the UN limit by 5 miles, and they were in the process of destroying them before we went in. The inspectors were doing their job, and Bush couldn't wait. So instead of taking care of Al-queda and Afghanistan, which are the real threats, we rolled over a country that was no threat to us. We have spent 0ver 150 billion on Iraq, and only 10 billion on Afghanistan. Al-queda was a higher priority and Bush blew it.
 
African warlords have been abusing human rights for years. They decorate their guns with human organs like having intestines dangling from their guns. Why hasn't bush gone in and stopped that, nor even bothered to talk about it?
Click to expand...

Help me out here: Which African warlords have been abusing human rights for years, have proven themselves to be a threat both to their countrymen and the rest of the world, have had numerous U.N. resolutions that they have violated, and have proven resistant to other forms of coercion such as sanctions?

There's your answer.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, the famous "we're in it for the oil" theory. Yes, it's obvious that the U.S. went in just to get the rich Iraqi oil, as demonstrated by the plummeting gas prices all across the U.S. Oh, wait a second....

It would be nice if it were that simple, wouldn't it? The oil-hungry U.S. government swooped in to relieve Iraq of their precious oil. But of course, it never is that simple. Why would the U.S. spend 400 billion dollars to acquire what is estimated to be 40 billion dollars worth of oil? And the Halliburton contract seems suspicious, until you look at what te company actually does, and realize that there really is no other company that does what Halliburton does. A no-bid contract makes more sense in that situation.

As for the link between Al Qaeda and Iraq, why does their have to be a direct link to justify resolving the Iraq situation? It's like the man whose daughter gets bitten by a scorpion, so he goes into the yard and kills all the scorpions and snakes that he can find. "But wait!" cries the neighbor. "Why are you killing the snakes?? Your daughter got bitten by a scorpion, not a snake!" After 9/11, the U.S. realized that it could not wait around for Saddam to gain more power, could not afford to wait until Hussein had attacked the U.S.

As with much of politics, the Iraq situation was a combination of many things, not the simple one-reason explanation that people like to throw around. So if you would like to find another dictator that has all the characteristics that Iraq had, then you might have a case that the U.S. should deal with them as well. But I'm willing to bet that you can't find one.[/quote]
 
[quote name='abates17']Ah yes, the famous "we're in it for the oil" theory. Yes, it's obvious that the U.S. went in just to get the rich Iraqi oil, as demonstrated by the plummeting gas prices all across the U.S. Oh, wait a second....

It would be nice if it were that simple, wouldn't it? The oil-hungry U.S. government swooped in to relieve Iraq of their precious oil. But of course, it never is that simple. Why would the U.S. spend 400 billion dollars to acquire what is estimated to be 40 billion dollars worth of oil? And the Halliburton contract seems suspicious, until you look at what te company actually does, and realize that there really is no other company that does what Halliburton does. A no-bid contract makes more sense in that situation.

As for the link between Al Qaeda and Iraq, why does their have to be a direct link to justify resolving the Iraq situation? It's like the man whose daughter gets bitten by a scorpion, so he goes into the yard and kills all the scorpions and snakes that he can find. "But wait!" cries the neighbor. "Why are you killing the snakes?? Your daughter got bitten by a scorpion, not a snake!" After 9/11, the U.S. realized that it could not wait around for Saddam to gain more power, could not afford to wait until Hussein had attacked the U.S.

As with much of politics, the Iraq situation was a combination of many things, not the simple one-reason explanation that people like to throw around. So if you would like to find another dictator that has all the characteristics that Iraq had, then you might have a case that the U.S. should deal with them as well. But I'm willing to bet that you can't find one.[/quote]

Sure I can - how about Kim in North Korea? Our approach with Korea (a country that admits they have WMD by the way) is one of diplomacy. Why didn't bush try that with iraq instead of going gung-ho as soon as he went into office?

You realize that it takes years to refine oil, right? So the oil we took over in iraq won't even reach our markets anyway for a long time yet. And bush didn't know it would cost 400 billion in iraq. His cronies estimated much lower initially, then had to go in front of congress two or three times to ask for more money.

Then you go into comparing arabs with scorpions and snakes. :roll:

And how does a no-bid contract "make sense"?
 
[quote name='E-Z-B'][quote name='abates17']
So if you would like to find another dictator that has all the characteristics that Iraq had, then you might have a case that the U.S. should deal with them as well. But I'm willing to bet that you can't find one.[/quote]

Sure I can - how about Kim in North Korea? Our approach with Korea (a country that admits they have WMD by the way) is one of diplomacy. Why didn't bush try that with iraq instead of going gung-ho as soon as he went into office?

You realize that it takes years to refine oil, right? So the oil we took over in iraq won't even reach our markets anyway for a long time yet. And bush didn't know it would cost 400 billion in iraq. His cronies estimated much lower initially, then had to go in front of congress two or three times to ask for more money.

Then you go into comparing arabs with scorpions and snakes. :roll:

And how does a no-bid contract "make sense"?[/quote]

KIM chong il has access to nukes so we dont attack them,(he would use nukes on our friends in japan and south korea) we attacked iraq before they obtained nukes, that was probably the right decision. THo really we should have removed saddam in 1991 in the first Iraq war.

If north korea did no thave nukes, then we could put KIM chong il out of power as well, he has done much worse than decapitating his people.
 
Sure I can - how about Kim in North Korea? Our approach with Korea (a country that admits they have WMD by the way) is one of diplomacy. Why didn't bush try that with iraq instead of going gung-ho as soon as he went into office?
Click to expand...

The difference is oil. Iraq is floating on a sea of oil, whereas North Korea has no such resources. That makes Iraq much less susceptible to tactics such as sanctions, since Saddam has routinely been able to funnel money from the Oil For Food program and put it into his military and palaces, while the Iraqi people have suffered. Also, there has been evidence that other countries have been illegally buying oil from Iraq, providing even more funding for Saddam's regime. North Korea has no such resources, so diplomacy and sanctions have a much better chance of working.

As for "going gung-ho," diplomacy had been tried for over a decade with Iraq. What do you think all of those U.N. resolutions were about? Saddam repeatedly claimed that he had no illegal weapons, even though it was discovered time and again that he did. Diplomacy was tried for quite a long time, yet Saddam's regime grew stronger and stronger.

You realize that it takes years to refine oil, right? So the oil we took over in iraq won't even reach our markets anyway for a long time yet.
Click to expand...

Please provide some evidence that we have actually been taking oil from Iraq. Otherwise, you are just making up facts to support your theories.

And bush didn't know it would cost 400 billion in iraq. His cronies estimated much lower initially, then had to go in front of congress two or three times to ask for more money.
Click to expand...

Again, you're just flat-out wrong. I believe the initial esitmates were actually higher than 400 billion. Do you really think that no one bothered to do the math before going ahead with the actions against Iraq? If the U.S. really just wanted to get cheap oil, they could have lifted economic sanctions against Iraq anytime, and had all the cheap oil they wanted. Having outrageous theories is one thing; basing your entire theory on the assumption that the administration can't do simple math is just ludicrous.

Then you go into comparing arabs with scorpions and snakes.
Click to expand...

But my point remains that September 11 can affect U.S. foreign policy towards Iraq, even if Iraq had nothing directly to do with those events.

And how does a no-bid contract "make sense"?
Click to expand...

What do you need explained? Halliburton is the only company that does what they do; why would they have to bid for the contract?
 
speaking of (not so) outrageous theories: the video is most likely bogus(this is from tradegamesnow.com and not my theory)

Evidence

1) Most people replied by asserting that the execution occured as retribution to the abuse photos that had surfaced, but you have to ask yourself - do these terrorists, who are clearly capable of brainwashing people to the point where they are willing to kill and be killed for their beliefs, really have no concept of political tact? Here they are, the whole world screaming at the US for hypocrisy and injustice over these pictures, and they perform and publish this execution right in the heat of the scandal. In other words, these masters of brainwashing and spin and deception release a video of a despicable act just as the US, their sworn enemy, is being globally grilled. Does this make sense to you?

2) Second, I wonder what the standard issue chair is at Abu Ghraib prison doing in this video?

The same white chair nick is sitting on...
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-05/08/xinsrc_400501100951469170513.jpg
http://radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/ressources/images/normales/n/ni/040511nick-berg-video_n.jpg


3) Is it not interesting that the wall colour at Abu Ghraib prison is identical to that of the video?


4) Is it not also interesting that Berg is wearing the same orange jumpsuit worn by prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison? Sure, you say, perhaps he was kidnapped directly from the prison (as stupid as this sounds, anyway) - but then can you please explain (7)?

5) Is it also not interesting that the timecodes in the video jump back and forth?

6) Is it also not interesting that Berg did not exhibit any of the convulsions that typically accompany decapitation?

http://www.ahsc.arizona.edu/uac/iacuc/rodents/avma.htm
I am suggesting here that Berg was already dead when the decapitation occured (which accounts for

5). Before you go calling me crazy, please review the evidence; why did he not exhibit the convulsions that go hand in hand with decapitation (especially such an extended one)?

7) Is it not curious that the US denies contact with Berg, and yet his friends and family insist that he told them he was being held by the US? Huh? Why?

8) Another tape oddity - the men SPEAK RUSSIAN for part of the tape. Not only that, but they speak Arabic with Russian accents. That's right, in the final seconds of the tape, one of the men speaks in Russian. Those here who understand russian (and have the stomach to view that final seconds of the video) can verify this. Those who speak Arabic will be able to verify that these men speak Arabic in Russian accents.

9) Finally (the physical evidence that will convince you in case you already aren't)...
You will notice, in watching the video, that 6 times, a gold ring flashes on the hand of the executioner. What is the problem? Islam completely and utterly forbids men to wear gold rings. This fanatical muslim, willing to kill in a gutwrenching manner, and be killed for his beliefs, is violating one of the clear prohibitions of his religion? Really? DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO YOU?

10) Nick Berg understands Arabic or was learning , but sits calmy while statement is read, waiting to be killed. Hmm?

11) One of the executioners is wearing Air Jordans. WHAT?

edit 2:

12) The "terrorists" signed the video, yet they wear hoods and masks. Why?

13) The "terrorists" have lily white hands.

14) The video time is in US Military English. What the hell?

Conclusion
As many has suspected, but have not had the time to build a solid case for, the execution of Nick Berg was performed by coalition interests (most likely independent Russian mercenaries) in order to dwarf the abuse pictures and sway public opinion back against the Iraqis and in support of the war by taking advantage of the emotional reaction we all experience when hearing of such an despicable act. The poor production quality (all the "curiosities" I have pointed out) of this video can be attributed to the haste in which it was made after the order was given to distract the public from the abuse scandal, and is in line with my conclusion.

Again, before you attack my conclusion, attack my evidence. No matter how crazy you think this sounds, examine the evidence objectively and please try to deny a single thing I have said. If you cannot deny my evidence, you logically cannot deny my conclusion. Make your replies free of subjective opinions .

Sources:

Chair, wall, timecode, and :

http://www.libertyforum.org/showfla...=-1#Post1469025

http://www.news24houston.com/conten...D=28906&SecID=2

Berg was in US custody:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast...ends/index.html


Gold rings forbidden by Islam:
http://www.khilafah.com/home/catego...ID=9529&TagID=2
http://www.google.com/search?q=gold...=utf-8&oe=utf-8


PS: In other news, the video that the US used to incriminate Bin Laden in masterminding the 9/11 attacks was a fake.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape.html
Judge for yourself.
Once you have made up your mind, please ask yourself why the government would want to fake Bin Laden's guilt, which apparently justified the entire Afghanistan war (where an oil pipeline is now being built, which the Taliban had refused to allow).
 
Some of the evidence does give viable proof the the tape could be fake. and I can't say the Bush administration doesn't have it in them to fake such a tape, as they've lied quite a few times these past few years, especially over this war. But faking the brutal death of an American would be a new low.
*2 cents dropped*
 
[quote name='mst3k_stud']anyone have the link? i'm not being an asshole...just want to see for myself.[/quote]

the link to the video? pm me and ill tell you....i would just tell you on here, but people got pissed the last time it was on here
 
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