The future of retro game prices?

MSI Magus

MSI Magus

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We are fast coming to the days of digital distrubtion and with it we will see video games in hard form finaly be seen as a obsolete/antiqued. This has me wondering though....just which will it be? Will video games in their hard copy forms simply be seen as obsolete junk much like cassettes and VHS tapes before them? Or will we find that the gaming hobby is very different and gamers cherish their games making them collectors items/antiques?

Its easy to envision a world where everything is digital and even the most rare titles like Suikoden 2 or Panzer Dragoon Saga start to slowly decline in value....but at the same time its easy to see a world where more and more people are born that take up the gaming hobby and they want hard copies of the classic games and systems their grand dads talk about.

So what do you guys think? Over the next 20 years will we see depreciation or appreciation of value, and to what extent?

Personally I think we will see game prices slowly increase. Stuff thats already rare like Suikoden 2 may creep a bit but I dont think we will see large increases. I think however we will see a bigger increase in value of stuff thats now seen as junk such as the original Super Mario Brothers or Donkey Kong Country. IM not saying I think these games will be worth $100 a pop as well, but I think we will see them going from $1-$5 junk titles to $20-$50 games.
 
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Assuming everything ever is one day available digitally, then prices are going to tank in the long run. In the era before DVDs, there were plenty of rare or obscure movies that would sell on eBay for $30, $40, $50, or even more. I paid close to $45 for my copy of UHF on VHS in 1999, but once then DVD was released 3 years later, that VHS is now worthless.

Super Mario Brothers is the Combat of NES titles, it's worth more as recycled plastic and carbon than it is as a physical video game.

If you're looking at purchasing video games as a potential investment tool, forget about it. Except for obscenely rare or obscure stuff like Stadium Events, or some of the sought after unlicensed stuff that's in demand for most consoles, your video games are all worthless. I haven't even checked, eBay recently, has the release of FF7 on the PSN, had any effect on it's value? I'm sure it must have.
 
Where do you get off thinking they'll be useless and obsolete? The day physical media stops is the day I stop paying for my games. I've more than enough to spend years replaying classics, no way will I spend more than $15 or so for a game without box, manual, and disc. Even that's rare as I usually wait until DLC is $10 or less.

As for holding value I think they will. Not so much to make it an investment, but gamers want the discs and no downloadable version will affect the value that greatly.
 
[quote name='spmahn']Assuming everything ever is one day available digitally, then prices are going to tank in the long run. In the era before DVDs, there were plenty of rare or obscure movies that would sell on eBay for $30, $40, $50, or even more. I paid close to $45 for my copy of UHF on VHS in 1999, but once then DVD was released 3 years later, that VHS is now worthless.

Super Mario Brothers is the Combat of NES titles, it's worth more as recycled plastic and carbon than it is as a physical video game.

If you're looking at purchasing video games as a potential investment tool, forget about it. Except for obscenely rare or obscure stuff like Stadium Events, or some of the sought after unlicensed stuff that's in demand for most consoles, your video games are all worthless. I haven't even checked, eBay recently, has the release of FF7 on the PSN, had any effect on it's value? I'm sure it must have.[/QUOTE]

No my IRA/401k is for investing in my future. Games are a hobby ;)

Anyways I disagree with the idea that just because DVDs killed VHS that digital distribution will kill the value of retro games. You mentioned FFVII's release on PSN which did put a significant ding in its price, but its price is still holding at a fair amount. In 10 years it will be even more rare, and 30 years from now it will be pretty hard to come by.

So again the question is LONG TERM what will this do to the price of our games. VHS we saw a million copies of any movie made....then we saw millions with the DVD. So its hard to compare them to video games which often receive a single print run then their done. Game collectors also seem to hold original releases much closer to them. There are tons of movie collectors out there, but how many of them wouldn't buy a re release of a movie just because the case isnt the same? Now think about how bat shit insane people here go over greatest hits cases!
 
[quote name='DPsx7']Where do you get off thinking they'll be useless and obsolete? The day physical media stops is the day I stop paying for my games. I've more than enough to spend years replaying classics, no way will I spend more than $15 or so for a game without box, manual, and disc. Even that's rare as I usually wait until DLC is $10 or less.

As for holding value I think they will. Not so much to make it an investment, but gamers want the discs and no downloadable version will affect the value that greatly.[/QUOTE]

I'm not talking about new releases, even digitally those will always hover around the $40 - $60 range, if for no other reason that to have to recoup development costs. We're still a long way off from digital downloads of new games replacing physical media.

What I'm talking about is retro games, stuff that casual fans want to play, but don't necessarily want to pay top dollar for. Like it or not, reissues and digital re-releases of classic titles hurt their value. The market for people who care enough about a classic title to pay top dollar for a copy of the physical game with or without box and manual is limited.

5 or more years ago all the Squaresoft RPG's for SNES would routinely sell for $80 loose to $120+ if it came with box and manual. Now that nearly all those titles are available on the GBA / DS or on the Virtual Console, those prices have dropped significantly. You can get a loose Chrono Trigger for SNES now in the $30 to $40 range, 10 years ago that was more like the $70 to $80 range, but subsequent re-releases on PS1 and DS have devauled the original game, and when the day comes that it sees a Virtual Console release, I guarantee you the price of the original will drop even more.
 
The original super mario classic series for gba is worth $25-30+, even with the prior versions being worthless as well as being available for $5 on wii virtual console.

Valkyrie Profile, while a bit lower, can still go up to $100 despite being re-released on the psp. Final Fantasy 7's release on PSN had no effect on prices. Its been trading in the same place for a long time now.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']The original super mario classic series for gba is worth $25-30+, even with the prior versions being worthless as well as being available for $5 on wii virtual console.

Valkyrie Profile, while a bit lower, can still go up to $100 despite being re-released on the psp. Final Fantasy 7's release on PSN had no effect on prices. Its been trading in the same place for a long time now.[/QUOTE]

From what iv seen VII's price did come down a bit. And the market on Marvel Vs Capcom certainly came down! Iv seen it trading for $35ish a lot recently when it was a $75-$100 game before!
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']The original super mario classic series for gba is worth $25-30+, even with the prior versions being worthless as well as being available for $5 on wii virtual console.[/QUOTE]

Good god, you're right, thank you for pointing this out. I have a copy of this with the original box and manual in mint condition. I will be posting this on eBay immediately.
 
I think the amount of people calling themselves collectors is probably increasing. But I won't pretend to know what kind of effect that would have on the prices of common games.

As far as the possible digital-only future, I don't have any problem with digitally distributed games as long as they're priced appropriately. Modern Warfare 2 and Assassins Creed 2 for $60 on Steam is ridiculous. So are the over-MSRP prices for 360 Games on Demand.

I seriously doubt the next generation of consoles will be digital only though. Maybe the one after that, but they're going to have to start coming with much bigger (and less horribly overpriced, in the case of the 360) hard drives.
 
[quote name='N3UROP0D']I think the amount of people calling themselves collectors is probably increasing. But I won't pretend to know what kind of effect that would have on the prices of common games.

As far as the possible digital-only future, I don't have any problem with digitally distributed games as long as they're priced appropriately. Modern Warfare 2 and Assassins Creed 2 for $60 on Steam is ridiculous. So are the over-MSRP prices for 360 Games on Demand.

I seriously doubt the next generation of consoles will be digital only though. Maybe the one after that, but they're going to have to start coming with much bigger (and less horribly overpriced, in the case of the 360) hard drives.[/QUOTE]

It's not even the Hard Drives that are the problem, the bigger issue with digitally distributed games is that consumer internet speeds simply aren't fast enough to support this yet, and it may be several years before they are. Even at maximum speed, an entire DVD would still take several hours to download using most peoples DSL or Cable connections, and that doesn't even factor in the network and server capacity that would be needed to keep everything running smoothly on the other end.
 
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[quote name='spmahn']I'm not talking about new releases, even digitally those will always hover around the $40 - $60 range, if for no other reason that to have to recoup development costs. We're still a long way off from digital downloads of new games replacing physical media.

What I'm talking about is retro games, stuff that casual fans want to play, but don't necessarily want to pay top dollar for. Like it or not, reissues and digital re-releases of classic titles hurt their value. The market for people who care enough about a classic title to pay top dollar for a copy of the physical game with or without box and manual is limited.

5 or more years ago all the Squaresoft RPG's for SNES would routinely sell for $80 loose to $120+ if it came with box and manual. Now that nearly all those titles are available on the GBA / DS or on the Virtual Console, those prices have dropped significantly. You can get a loose Chrono Trigger for SNES now in the $30 to $40 range, 10 years ago that was more like the $70 to $80 range, but subsequent re-releases on PS1 and DS have devauled the original game, and when the day comes that it sees a Virtual Console release, I guarantee you the price of the original will drop even more.[/QUOTE]

I don't think so. There's something about owning the original, not a DLC, not an altered remake. Sometimes those changes aren't for the better ya know? And there's always a big difference when a game is loose. Anyone who'd buy a loose cart probably just wants to play the game once. The cheapest option will suffice and loose carts drop in price. Complete copies should hold value longer since those will go to people who want to keep the game.
 
[quote name='DPsx7']I don't think so. There's something about owning the original, not a DLC, not an altered remake. Sometimes those changes aren't for the better ya know? And there's always a big difference when a game is loose. Anyone who'd buy a loose cart probably just wants to play the game once. The cheapest option will suffice and loose carts drop in price. Complete copies should hold value longer since those will go to people who want to keep the game.[/QUOTE]

Who is to say if its better or worse? Your coming across as someone stating an absolute truth when really its just your preference, many people already vastly prefer digital distribution. Personally im on the fence on the subject. Sometimes I love being able to just hop on a system or program and bam there are all my games....sometimes though i worry if one day they will all stop being supported and I can never download them!

Regardless this topic isnt about if DD is better or worse or even if its the future. Its about the future pricing of retro games.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Regardless this topic isnt about if DD is better or worse or even if its the future. Its about the future pricing of retro games.[/QUOTE]

The two are kind of intertwined. If DD takes off and everyone embraces it, there's nothing to stop everyone from putting any game they currently hold licenses for online...it's essentially free money. Any release (especially releases with added content) will help to devalue the original item somewhat.

I kind of see hardcopies of games ending up like Vinyl records - there'll still be people collecting them, and rare stuff will still be rare stuff. The stuff that cannot be turned digital will see significant price increases, but stuff that can could really go either way. It's kind of impossible to guess what the supply/demand for retro-games will be, since eventually people will collect them for their rarity only, and not the actual game.
 
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[quote name='spmahn']It's not even the Hard Drives that are the problem, the bigger issue with digitally distributed games is that consumer internet speeds simply aren't fast enough to support this yet, and it may be several years before they are. Even as maximum speed, an entire DVD would still take several hours to download, and that doesn't even factor in the network and server capacity that would be needed to keep everything running smoothly on the other end.[/QUOTE]

Good point, and a pretty interesting topic, but I guess this isn't the right thread for it.

As long as there are physical games, there will be rare ones. The game might be available in an enhanced, more convenient form on PSN or XBL, but if the boxed version was rare before it still will be, albeit worth less money. Prices change but rare is rare, unless somebody finds a warehouse full or something. FF7 was only expensive because of demand, it sure as hell wasn't rare. MVC2 was kinda rare, and even if your copy isn't worth as much now, it's still a hard to find item. That's how I see it, of course I realize a lot of people do care about prices.

So what I'm saying is, the amount of collectors will increase, the amount of games will not. Prices will go up, though perhaps by unremarkable amounts in many cases. Stuff that's already rare will still go up if it's something like Stadium Events or even a more reasonable game like Panzer Dragoon Saga (which will never, ever see a downloadable version released.)

Retro games aren't like VHS tapes or cassettes. A VHS is literally worthless compared to a DVD -- worse in pretty much every way, with no significant nostalgia or other factors that would make you prefer that format. Games are, as Salamando said, like records. Most people would just go for the convenience of an mp3 or CD, but to the serious collectors or fans, that old record or cartridge has its own value.
 
My extensive Atlus collection will be worth some amount estimated in the high trillions, when people begin to see the light. Unfortunately, I would never give it up for anything other than a night with Shokotan!
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']No my IRA/401k is for investing in my future. Games are a hobby ;)
[/QUOTE]

I hope it's a Roth IRA if your making
 
I don't know about Super Mario Duck Hunt or any of the old classics like Sonic or Zelda. Most of these are already available on virtual console, and repackaged collection discs, and what about ROMS and Emulators? Anyone can download complete sets for most of the old systems and play on their computer immediately.

I think only the rarest of the rare games will survive in value. Such as Panzer Dragoon, the NWC carts, Halloween for atari 2600, Texas Chainsaw Massacre for atari 2600, Stadium Events, stuff like that, which we'll never see legal downloadable re-release versions for. These are highly sought after by collectors and print runs were severely limited, and it could take you years to find them, in the wild (except for nwc and SE).

Earthbound, Final Fantasy, Chrono trigger, Bubble Bobble 1/2, duck tales 2, flintstones dinosaur peak, bubble bath babes, etc., I can see those taking a dive to the pit from either fading into obscurity and never being talked about again or simply just TOO HARD TO FIND that nobody cares anymore.

Remember what happened to ET and pacman on atari 2600? There were so many copies made they dumped them all in landfills or some shit like that. Those are basically worthless now.
 
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[quote name='Ye0ldmario']I don't know about Super Mario Duck Hunt or any of the old classics like Sonic or Zelda. Most of these are already available on virtual console, and repackaged collection discs, and what about ROMS and Emulators? Anyone can download complete sets for most of the old systems and play on their computer immediately.

I think only the rarest of the rare games will survive in value. Such as Panzer Dragoon, the NWC carts, Halloween for atari 2600, Texas Chainsaw Massacre for atari 2600, Stadium Events, stuff like that, which we'll never see legal downloadable re-release versions for. These are highly sought after by collectors and print runs were severely limited, and it could take you years to find them, in the wild (except for nwc and SE).

Earthbound, Final Fantasy, Chrono trigger, Bubble Bobble 1/2, duck tales 2, flintstones dinosaur peak, bubble bath babes, etc., I can see those taking a dive to the pit from either fading into obscurity and never being talked about again or simply just TOO HARD TO FIND that nobody cares anymore.

Remember what happened to ET and pacman on atari 2600? There were so many copies made they dumped them all in landfills or some shit like that. Those are basically worthless now.[/QUOTE]

ET is a horrible example because that was done shortly after the game was made and done becaues they printed far too many copies of an extremely shitty game. Putting Suikoden 2, Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy VI in that camp is just wrong.
 
Re-releases hurt the value, bottom-line. The majority of gamers would rather pay for a download then waste time looking for the game at yard sales or flea markets for who knows how long
 
[quote name='Ye0ldmario']Re-releases hurt the value, bottom-line. The majority of gamers would rather pay for a download then waste time looking for the game at yard sales or flea markets for who knows how long[/QUOTE]

Ermmmm or they could just go to ebay where the prices arnt at a rock bottom.....man your really stretching logic here. Im not really for one side of this argument or the other.....trying to play devils advocate...but christ man your not even giving me anything reasonable/logical to work with!
 
I'm not really crazy about what the "value" of my collection is, I really just scoop up old stuff to play and have a laugh at for nostalgia reasons (don't we all?), but I do ocasionally keep an eye out for rare stuff that sells high on ebay.
 
they have to find a good way to distribute these games in store. mp3 has been around for more than 10 years and although itunes makes a ton of money out of it, you still see cds being sold in stores.

theres a handful of games that had alot of success digitally like Trials HD for example. a game that had very little to no advertising at all sold alot of copies. but not every game will find success like it. alot of these publishers do rely heavily in the physical media.

imo, its going to stay as it is for a long time. at least until they find a way to distribute these games better.

Game Trailers had a great episode on the Bonus Round about micro transactions

http://www.gametrailers.com/bonusround.php?ep=3
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Who is to say if its better or worse? Your coming across as someone stating an absolute truth when really its just your preference, many people already vastly prefer digital distribution. Personally im on the fence on the subject. Sometimes I love being able to just hop on a system or program and bam there are all my games....sometimes though i worry if one day they will all stop being supported and I can never download them!

Regardless this topic isnt about if DD is better or worse or even if its the future. Its about the future pricing of retro games.[/QUOTE]

I have a pretty good sense for these things and have played for a long time. I know that original copies are what people seek because you know they'll be just how you remembered. Ports and remakes might change the speed, controls, or have other little alterations that affect the game. New players may never notice.

I still disagree, most refuse digital distribution. Don't fall for the lies of big companies, that's what they want. It's acceptable in small amounts for add-on content or small games but overall full games aren't desired as a DL. Time to obtain, frequently increasing your storage space, potential loss of your content, DRM, or the fact they don't cost any less than retail versions are just a few examples. The tiny convenience of not swapping discs isn't worth it.

And like was stated, this is a part of the topic since prices may be affected later on.
 
[quote name='DPsx7']Where do you get off thinking they'll be useless and obsolete? The day physical media stops is the day I stop paying for my games. I've more than enough to spend years replaying classics, no way will I spend more than $15 or so for a game without box, manual, and disc. Even that's rare as I usually wait until DLC is $10 or less.

As for holding value I think they will. Not so much to make it an investment, but gamers want the discs and no downloadable version will affect the value that greatly.[/QUOTE]
I accept with information: The market for people who care enough about a classic title to pay top dollar for a copy of the physical game with or without box and manual is limited. 5 or more years ago all the Squaresoft RPG's for SNES would routinely sell for $80 loose to $120+ if it came with box and manual.
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[quote name='MSI Magus']From what iv seen VII's price did come down a bit. And the market on Marvel Vs Capcom certainly came down! Iv seen it trading for $35ish a lot recently when it was a $75-$100 game before![/QUOTE]

You're absolutely correct. There isn't a desirable physical copy of a PS1 game yet that hasn't taken a value hit after being released digitally on the PSN. In the case of Marvel Vs Capcom 2 PS2, of course), that value hit was at least 50%. Final Fantasy VII has seen a cut nearly that large.

Video Gamers pay for a couple things. The first is the physical product; particularly in the case of collectors. The second is access to the software. When there's a 1 to 1 ratio between the two (one physical copy = one software access), prices climb and stay high for desirable games; sometimes regardless of rarity. But when the ratio is thrown out of whack by digital releases AND when the price of the digital release is far less than it is for secondary market physical product, prices will drop for the latter even if demand is still high.

A compounding issue is that many games offer enhanced access across multiple platforms. For our Final Fantasy VII example, a potential buyer who wants to play the game has to weigh the difference in price versus the importance they place on owning a physical copy. When FFVII was released, the price difference between the physical and digital was about @$60-$65. That alone is enough to sway a consumer's vote. But then let's add in the fact that not only can the buyer play the game on their PS3 console, but they can also play it on their PSP.

An exteme price difference between the two forms of the software was bad enough. But the added portability makes the situation worse to where FFVII's price point (even lower as it is) is now actually artificially enhanced based solely on a perception of rarity rather than actual supply/demand synergies.

If game manufacturers continue to do re-release cheap digital options, it really doesn't matter how rare the original game is because it can't possibly survive at a high price point. The game may maintain a plateau at a decent price, but with absolutely no room for growth; making it a poor target for any investor.
 
I think the person who brought up vinyl records has the right idea. Collectors/hipsters want the classic originals, just about everybody else is cool with MP3s, and the lazy/conventional opt for CDs as it's easier and what they're familiar with. I can see the same happening with mint Dreamcast games, XBLA/PSN, and your average Gamestop sticker-diarrhea game as examples.

I wouldn't bank too much on nostalgia as why someone would get something physical. When I wanted to relive classics, I turned to emulators because the stuff I wanted to relive wasn't all that good.

Take wrestling DVDs as another example. Most VHS tapes, even the rare/never released on DVD stuff, usually doesn't go above $20. Conversely, WrestleMania 17 which is available unedited on single original DVD goes for more than double the whole 5-event entire Anthology set it was re-released on. Some people are more than fine with watered down product because they don't feel like doing the work and others only want the original. I personally would want the original in that case but when faced with free torrent or plunking down $60-$70, I know what my choice is. Anyone who is a collector though, pretty clear what their choice is.
 
[quote name='DPsx7']I have a pretty good sense for these things and have played for a long time. I know that original copies are what people seek because you know they'll be just how you remembered. Ports and remakes might change the speed, controls, or have other little alterations that affect the game. New players may never notice.

I still disagree, most refuse digital distribution. Don't fall for the lies of big companies, that's what they want. It's acceptable in small amounts for add-on content or small games but overall full games aren't desired as a DL. Time to obtain, frequently increasing your storage space, potential loss of your content, DRM, or the fact they don't cost any less than retail versions are just a few examples. The tiny convenience of not swapping discs isn't worth it.

And like was stated, this is a part of the topic since prices may be affected later on.[/QUOTE]

Man you really are trying to act like an expert on this.......

You say most refuse digital distribution but guess what...steam and the Iphone say hello! The problem currently isnt that people are against Digital Distrubtion its that the average gamer really does not have a clue its even really there or what its about. They are also 90% interested in big budget titles like Modern Warfare and Grand Theft Auto meaning their not going to grab something like Mega Man. Regardless these games are doing well as platforms like steam show. Its not falling for big companies lies, its seeing the sales of things like Plants vs Zombies and not being an old fogey that fights the future.

Seems general consensus is that pricing will remain moderate but not grow to insane lengths for any game that sees re release. Games like Castlevania SotN show/prove that games can hold value well, but for the most part after numerous re releases we are seeing a 30-60% decline in value.
 
I think, if digital distribution does 'take over', there won't be a retro market... because there won't be anything to sell! The way things are set up right now, I don't see a lot of people trying to buy digital games in 20 years time.

In the current retro market, you only need a few things to be up and playing: a system and controller that works, a TV to hook it up to, and the game itself. Let's say in 20 years you want some Xbox live games that were download only. Now you need the system/controller, TV, hard drive with the game in question, the profile the game was originally downloaded to, and an Xbox memory card to move all the games/profiles onto the same Hard Drive so you don't have to swap in-between games. That's a lot of effort, not to mention cost. I don't see people bothering. You know what I do see? ROMs.

Without a physical copy to collect and show off, all you have is the gameplay itself. A nice ROM program, especially if they can set it up to work with the original wireless controllers (or replice thereof) would give the same experience in one nice package, without trying to juggle 6 different profiles to play 10 different downloads.

Of course, I don't see physical media going away either. Too many people like to lend, trade, and sell their stuff for new stuff... things digital is currently set up to specifically NOT do. I think, for the time being, digital gaming will remain exactly what it is... a niche within the industry.
 
The day digital-only distribution hits is the day I stop buying video games and start living off all the games I have amassed over time. I easily have enough to last a lifetime.

Some games will probably never get digital releases, like the Working Design games for the Sega Saturn. If a company has gone out of business like that and there is no way to get licenses for the games, I don't see the value of those games dropping anytime soon.

Honestly I think video games are the future of collectibles, everyone played video games as a kid from the 1980's onward and when those people grow up and start to get nostalgic and want to own things from their past, video games will be the first things they turn to. The people who had games in the 80's when they were little are just starting to establish themselves now so we really won't see what is going to happen with the value of games yet. Video games are also collectibles you can use, unlike action figures or toys that just sit on a shelf and are pretty to look at. Physical games are both nice to look at and you can play them too! If your buying games cheap at yard sales I don't see how you can go wrong with games as a collectible, just don't go buying every game for $100 thinking its value is going to magically increase from that point.

If your collecting you have to be careful what you collect too, if a game has a part that must be online, and that is basically the whole game, then that game is not going to be worth much in the future because the online part will be canceled at some point, servers don't stay up forever. If you have a game like this, your buying it for the moment and paying simply to play it for whatever time the servers are up for, don't expect it to be worth more than a coaster in the future.
 
[quote name='spmahn']I'm not talking about new releases, even digitally those will always hover around the $40 - $60 range, if for no other reason that to have to recoup development costs. We're still a long way off from digital downloads of new games replacing physical media.

What I'm talking about is retro games, stuff that casual fans want to play, but don't necessarily want to pay top dollar for. Like it or not, reissues and digital re-releases of classic titles hurt their value. The market for people who care enough about a classic title to pay top dollar for a copy of the physical game with or without box and manual is limited.

5 or more years ago all the Squaresoft RPG's for SNES would routinely sell for $80 loose to $120+ if it came with box and manual. Now that nearly all those titles are available on the GBA / DS or on the Virtual Console, those prices have dropped significantly. You can get a loose Chrono Trigger for SNES now in the $30 to $40 range, 10 years ago that was more like the $70 to $80 range, but subsequent re-releases on PS1 and DS have devauled the original game, and when the day comes that it sees a Virtual Console release, I guarantee you the price of the original will drop even more.[/QUOTE]

I think the re-release of Squaresoft RPGs on the Playstation had a greater effect than the stuff coming back on hand-helds. Not everybody has portables or enjoys the small screen atmosphere, but when a disc comes out on a major system, and people no longer need to worry about batteries in cartridges dying on them, that's when the old stock gets dumped. Pure technological improvement and ease of use.
 
I don't think DD will come in one swoop and invalidate all physical media instantly like many doom sayers predict. Physical media won't go so gently, even when DD is available across all platforms. Itunes has been big since when? 2004? Physical CD sales are down yes, but I still think they aren't going anywhere.

I try to have faith that the consumer market will realize what a kick in the nuts DD is, and I think many of them will, as soon as they realize that can get no return on what they put into anything anymore. Which is exactly why corporate wants to make the which to DD. "Used games sales are cutting into maximum profit!" I want to believe that most people won't stand for shelling out for imaginary products that could easy be lost for good... but then again, they never really had in the first place. But that's for a whole other argument.

I really don't believe imaginary copies of a game will really cut into the value of physical games as collectible items. In the end, collectors aren't interested in a microscopic HD, they want tangible, physical, visible, collectible items. They want authenticity, not a cheap imitation. Sure, when a "rare" game is released digitally, the value may go down a bit, but I believe this is only temporary. If DD is to eventually take over, then all physical copies of video games will certainly become collectors items, and the value of nearly all of them is likely going to increase in time, not decrease.
 
[quote name='warmsignal']I don't think DD will come in one swoop and invalidate all physical media instantly like many doom sayers predict. Physical media won't go so gently, even when DD is available across all platforms. Itunes has been big since when? 2004? Physical CD sales are down yes, but I still think they aren't going anywhere.

I try to have faith that the consumer market will realize what a kick in the nuts DD is, and I think many of them will, as soon as they realize that can get no return on what they put into anything anymore. Which is exactly why corporate wants to make the which to DD. "Used games sales are cutting into maximum profit!" I want to believe that most people won't stand for shelling out for imaginary products that could easy be lost for good... but then again, they never really had in the first place. But that's for a whole other argument.

I really don't believe imaginary copies of a game will really cut into the value of physical games as collectible items. In the end, collectors aren't interested in a microscopic HD, they want tangible, physical, visible, collectible items. They want authenticity, not a cheap imitation. Sure, when a "rare" game is released digitally, the value may go down a bit, but I believe this is only temporary. If DD is to eventually take over, then all physical copies of video games will certainly become collectors items, and the value of nearly all of them is likely going to increase in time, not decrease.[/QUOTE]

I nor anyone else said DD would come fast or in one swoop. I think we are looking at at least 10 years but more realistically 20-30 years before it has a really large footing let alone completely takes over.

Also its getting old hearing people whine about how evil DD is and will be. It could be just as good or better then a physical copy if done right. For instance you guys keep screaming from the roof tops "you cant sell back your games, you cant sell back your games! OMG!" but you fail to 1. Mention that you can also buy many of these games for so cheap like $1-$3 that most people wont give 2 damns and 2. That a few sites coming up like green gaming(might be green man or something like that)are going to allow you to sell and trade your DD games.

DD doesn't HAVE to be bad. It could end up that we have all the same rights we currently have + get cheaper prices since assholes like gamestop are cut out the equation meaning 100% profit for developers.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']
DD doesn't HAVE to be bad. It could end up that we have all the same rights we currently have + get cheaper prices since assholes like gamestop are cut out the equation meaning 100% profit for developers.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you that DD is the way of the future. Given the current state of IP law, DD is the best way for developers and distributors to cut out the middle man and eliminate the used game market. However, don't think for a second that just because developers are making more money that the savings are going to be passed on to you, the customer. Most development studios are big corporations, as such their primary duty is to maximize dividends (ie make shareholders a ton of money). Developers moved to DD to make more money it's as simple as that.

Getting back to your original question, I think retro games will continue to hold value as long as there is a demand for them by collectors. However, it wouldn't surprise me if DD takes over the market, completely eliminating the need for retro games. Eventually your 50 year old system and game devices will stop working. Furthermore, what was fun when we were kids and teens might not be fun 20 or 30 years from now... just my two cents.
 
lol all those segas and nintendo's you have stashed up in your closet are going to stop working someday like it or not, and when all the left over old stuff that is still floating around the world finally dissapears, (and people clean out their attics and basements and just throw their old gaming equipment in the trash to be destroyed) that's when they could start to kick in digital downloads in full force. The stuff you find at yard sales and flea markets, it's all obsolete equipment that isn't manafactured anymore. After all there won't be another way to play the games. Atari stuff is already almost extinct. NES and sega stuff will be next. If downloads take over would the average person go hunting for a classic game at a yard sale or simply download it in the comfort of their own home? You see, digital downloads do have some good points. How many physical copies of super mario duck hunt will be around in 40-50 years?

I hope some hardcore collectors out there save at least 1 NES system they have and take care of it so we can have some museums set up in 20, 30, 50 years time.

btw - I'm referring to OLD games, as in, NES, genesis, atari, etc., stuff that isn't made anymore. I have nothing to say as for new games being download only. That's a whole different story.
 
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[quote name='SaraAB']The day digital-only distribution hits is the day I stop buying video games and start living off all the games I have amassed over time. [/QUOTE]
Says the guy with an "After Burner Climax" avatar. Oh the irony.
 
[quote name='Ye0ldmario']lol all those segas and nintendo's you have stashed up in your closet are going to stop working someday like it or not, and when all the left over old stuff that is still floating around the world finally dissapears, (and people clean out their attics and basements and just throw their old gaming equipment in the trash to be destroyed) that's when they could start to kick in digital downloads in full force. The stuff you find at yard sales and flea markets, it's all obsolete equipment that isn't manafactured anymore. After all there won't be another way to play the games. Atari stuff is already almost extinct. NES and sega stuff will be next. If downloads take over would the average person go hunting for a classic game at a yard sale or simply download it in the comfort of their own home? You see, digital downloads do have some good points. How many physical copies of super mario duck hunt will be around in 40-50 years?

I hope some hardcore collectors out there save at least 1 NES system they have and take care of it so we can have some museums set up in 20, 30, 50 years time.

btw - I'm referring to OLD games, as in, NES, genesis, atari, etc., stuff that isn't made anymore. I have nothing to say as for new games being download only. That's a whole different story.[/QUOTE]

Wow, you really have no clue do you? Firstly, when old consoles break, it's not hard to fix them. Secondly, there is still more Atari 2600 stuff floating around in the wild than anyone knows what to do with, not to mention Ebay, and most of it still works. It's the complex disc based consoles that will go first, Xbox 360s and PS3s.

You think collectors want to sit on their computers and download old games? No. They want the hardware, the software, hell, even the old tube style TVs, as that's what the old games look best on. They want collections they can admire, and enjoy the hunt.

For the record, MarioBros/Duckhunt in physical cartridge form will outlast everyone on this forum. and yes... some people out there do take care of their belongings, believe it or not.
 
[quote name='warmsignal']Wow, you really have no clue do you? Firstly, when old consoles break, it's not hard to fix them. Secondly, there is still more Atari 2600 stuff floating around in the wild than anyone knows what to do with, not to mention Ebay, and most of it still works. It's the complex disc based consoles that will go first, Xbox 360s and PS3s.

You think collectors want to sit on their computers and download old games? No. They want the hardware, the software, hell, even the old tube style TVs, as that's what the old games look best on. They want collections they can admire, and enjoy the hunt.

For the record, MarioBros/Duckhunt in physical cartridge form will outlast everyone on this forum. and yes... some people out there do take care of their belongings, believe it or not.[/QUOTE]

Exactly....I didnt bother responding because I dont think anyone will change his mind.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Also its getting old hearing people whine about how evil DD is and will be. It could be just as good or better then a physical copy if done right. For instance you guys keep screaming from the roof tops "you cant sell back your games, you cant sell back your games! OMG!" but you fail to 1. Mention that you can also buy many of these games for so cheap like $1-$3 that most people wont give 2 damns and 2. That a few sites coming up like green gaming(might be green man or something like that)are going to allow you to sell and trade your DD games.

DD doesn't HAVE to be bad. It could end up that we have all the same rights we currently have + get cheaper prices since assholes like gamestop are cut out the equation meaning 100% profit for developers.[/QUOTE]

$3? Maybe for some shallow flash animation type game, like the ones they pump out on the Iphone, not actual games. The day we're paying $3 for Mass Effect 3 and GTA 5, and reselling them for $3, is the day me shit turns purple and smells like rainbow Schubert.

Maximum profit for developers! It sounds like you want that just as much as they do. Because we all know how much better off we were before we could easily swap and buy games used, and we had to shell out for them at full MSRP, those were the days!
 
[quote name='warmsignal']$3? Maybe for some shallow flash animation type game, like the ones they pump out on the Iphone, not actual games. The day we're paying $3 for Mass Effect 3 and GTA 5, and reselling them for $3, is the day me shit turns purple and smells like rainbow Schubert.

Maximum profit for developers! It sounds like you want that just as much as they do. Because we all know how much better off we were before we could easily swap and buy games used, and we had to shell out for them at full MSRP, those were the days![/QUOTE]

I got Mass Effect for $5 and its been on sale for that price many times. I bet by next christmas we see it for around $3. I also bought Dead Space for $5 and quite a few other great games like Civilization 3. Then there is all the stuff like Psychonauts and Jade Empire that I have indeed got at the $3 mark.

Honestly you are showing a severe ignorance on this subject.

As for profit for developers, numerous developers have commented saying that not only are they making profit off of newer games that get released(despite them selling at lower costs for the most part)but also off these cheapo sales(the ones you are ignorant of). THQ just commented recently on the subject saying that even though they sold their entire catalog of games for only like $50 recently that they made millions of dollars off the sale and its all profit thanks to the fact that those are games they never would have been able to sell before.

The developers recognize the benefits of it and many of us gamers obviously do....so stop acting like just because your against it it must be bad....I mean christ that kind of ignorance is supposed to be left for stuff like the health care debate(stupid socialist communist Obama!).
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']I got Mass Effect for $5 and its been on sale for that price many times. I bet by next christmas we see it for around $3. I also bought Dead Space for $5 and quite a few other great games like Civilization 3. Then there is all the stuff like Psychonauts and Jade Empire that I have indeed got at the $3 mark.

Honestly you are showing a severe ignorance on this subject.

As for profit for developers, numerous developers have commented saying that not only are they making profit off of newer games that get released(despite them selling at lower costs for the most part)but also off these cheapo sales(the ones you are ignorant of). THQ just commented recently on the subject saying that even though they sold their entire catalog of games for only like $50 recently that they made millions of dollars off the sale and its all profit thanks to the fact that those are games they never would have been able to sell before.

The developers recognize the benefits of it and many of us gamers obviously do....so stop acting like just because your against it it must be bad....I mean christ that kind of ignorance is supposed to be left for stuff like the health care debate(stupid socialist communist Obama!).[/QUOTE]

Mass Effect? Civilization III?!? Do you know what year it is? I'm talking about new games, hence "Mass Effect 3" and "GTA 5". What does that have to do with with you catching wind of a sale on some old games? What I was saying is that we aren't getting ME3 for $3, not even $30. If the game came out download only, it would still go for $60.

GAC deals aside, digital download games are not generally cheaper than their physical counterparts, they're more or less the same. Speaking of Mass Effect, one interesting thing to note right now - on GS the pc download of ME2 is actually more than the hard copy.

I get your point, developers are rolling in the dough and laughing that they've cut out the middle man. Why should that make the average consumer happy again? Because they can't get half of what they used to in return out of a game? Because when PSN or maybe all of Sony goes unexpectedly bankrupt in four years time or eventually drops support for a platform, they can loose everything?

What's the return policy on a digital download game anyway?
 
I thought it wasn't a real debate until MSI Magus spazzed but warmsignal proved he needs to be there to make it a party.

Digital distribution just doesn't work out well for gaming because of two things:

1.) Desperate kids are the bread-and-butter of the industry
You can absolutely SOAK a kid who just paid $60 for a game and either can't return it or will trade it in for $20 just to plunk down $40 more on a newer game. Lather, rinse, repeat. I used to pay MSRP for Nintendo 64 games like WWF Warzone and didn't have any trade-in places near me. If I had to wait to download a game when I was younger and didn't really have the means either, they wouldn't have seen money from me.

2.) Games are only getting bigger in size
It works out very well for music because it's $1.50 at most for a song, people usually don't want the whole album because most have filler, and even a high quality track hovers around 10MB. Compare that to a game where you can't pick only the parts you like, it's around $40 on average, and they can be as much as 50GB if Sony ever uses a full Blu-Ray.
 
[quote name='FoxHoundADAM']Says the guy with an "After Burner Climax" avatar. Oh the irony.[/QUOTE]

Not sure what this means, but afterburner climax is an arcade game for all that don't know, unfortunately my local arcades do not have it to play. Also, I am a girl, I would hope the username would make that more than obvious.

I wouldn't have a problem with DD if the games were a lot cheaper, but Sony is charging full price for DD games, which is not a good value and in some cases they are charging more for the DD version. If the games were under $5 each for a full game, then I definitely wouldn't have a problem with it. Provided the games were tied to an account and not a device and I could get them back if I decided to upgrade my device or if my device died (looking at you DSi). As far as DLC, I am not paying for something that should have been in the game in the first place or for an unlock code that just unlocks stuff that is already on the disc, but this seems to only be a problem on the Xbox 360, and I don't own that console for a variety of reasons, that being one of them. I am also not paying for games I already own twice, especially if its a classic game that I already own in multiple forms from yard sale purchases (yard sale purchases are another story, if I am paying 25 cents I don't mind owning the game twice). With the Wii and DS everything is included in the cartridge or in the case of Pokemon is a free download. Apple has a good system going where a lot of games are free or very cheap but I don't own any apple products and I don't plan to in the future; the games aren't the best from what I hear but they are low cost.
 
I don't think digital distribution is going to take off.

but anyways, I don't know.

I could see common retro game prices staying the same
the more popular games going higher, and the rarest $10,000+ games going higher.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']@steam(kind of done with warmsignal) - Steam says hello![/QUOTE]

Ok, look- Steam is NOT the be-all, end-all example of why digital is superior. Actually, I can point out one BIG reason it isn't... it's PC. There are a LOT of dedicated console gamers out there (myself included) who won't want to use a PC service no matter how good it is.

When people talk the 'retro market', they almost always mean just consoles. That's where the money goes, collecting those funny old game systems and giant carts we remember from when were were younger. There's no retro PC market on the same scale- most old PC games won't even work on new systems. Most gamers won't want to track down old PCs with the right requirements or new homebrew programs to make the current PCs run them.

So yes, I can see programs like Steam carving out a nice stable niche and doing well for themselves. I don't see it taking over without some serious changes to the way DD is used and distributed (as far as games go). I defintely don't see people spending the kind of time and money they do on old NES carts, hunting down some long-lost game download.
 
[quote name='davo1224']I searched for Oregon Trail last year :([/QUOTE]

Ironically, I saw it at a yard sale last year, it was the old IBM version (I think), problem is I don't have a computer to run it and I already have a stack of factory sealed old PC games here that are taking up space because I got them for free and they were about to be thrown out, and I didn't want them to be thrown out so I took them. I don't run into computer stuff that is that old very often. Though I did run into a brand new box of 50 5in floppy's turns out one of my friends collects computer stuff and they made a very nice Xmas present for him, not bad for 1$.
 
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