The libertarian's guide to externality costing. What do we do about the oil spill?

[quote name='UncleBob']What - you mean it's possible for a politician to act independently of the money they've had donated to them?[/QUOTE]
Which is why Joe Barton, a man of principle, is standing by his statement. Yup.

This is an interesting new direction for you Bob. You're standing by a hypothesis that money =! political favors. The nerve of some people to question you!

derp
 
[quote name='speedracer']derp[/QUOTE]

The most informative post you've made in the past month. I congratulate you. You're moving up.
 
He shouldn't just retract the apology, he should retract the entire statement where he condemns the WH for forcing BP to pay for shit.
 
[quote name='IRHari']He shouldn't just retract the apology, he should retract the entire statement where he condemns the WH for forcing BP to pay for shit.[/QUOTE]

No,no it is perfectly rational for perd to carry water for a guy who apologized to BP for the US government getting seawater in their precious oil.
 
[quote name='IRHari']He shouldn't just retract the apology, he should retract the entire statement where he condemns the WH for forcing BP to pay for shit.[/QUOTE]

"I regret the impact that my statement this morning implied that BP should not pay for the consequences of their decisions and actions in this incident."
 
[quote name='IRHari']He shouldn't just retract the apology, he should retract the entire statement where he condemns the WH for forcing BP to pay for shit.[/QUOTE]

"I regret the impact that my statement this morning implied that BP should not pay for the consequences of their decisions and actions in this incident."
Click to expand...

...?
 
"I'm sorry I found a way to remind everyone just how in bed with big oil the Gulf Republican representation is. Please don't take my chairmanship away. Please please please."
 
[quote name='speedracer']"I'm sorry I found a way to remind everyone just how in bed with big oil the Gulf Republican representation is. Please don't take my chairmanship away. Please please please."[/QUOTE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBKeB5tyigk

"Damn... my approval ratings are sinking even lower. Can they go into the negatives? I better get on TV and talk some trash. That'll get me some accolades from my fans. Yeah, let's kick some ass."
 
Joe Barton makes one of the dumber political gaffes in recent memory and you change the subject over and over to Obama. Why is that?
 
Because it's all directly related to the oil spill. You know, the thing this topic is about. The thing Barton made his comments about. That big thing. If you want to make a Joe Barton topic, go right ahead.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Because it's all directly related to the oil spill. You know, the thing this topic is about. The thing Barton made his comments about. That big thing. If you want to make a Joe Barton topic, go right ahead.[/QUOTE]
The last 2 full pages have been about Barton, Bob. Everyone's talking about Barton's comments except you Bob.

We talk about Barton saying something stupid about the spill. Bob brings up Obama.
We talk about Barton getting money from BP. Bob brings up Obama.
We talk about Barton getting spanked by his caucus. Bob brings up Obama.

Perhaps you're the one having difficulty with the conversation, Bob.
 
From Fightin Joe's apology:
"The oil spill in the Gulf is this nation's largest natural disaster and stopping the leak and cleaning up the region is our top priority."
Click to expand...
I'm confused. What part was natural?
 
Perhaps you're the one with problems... You're worried about Barton when Obama's in charge. He's the commander in chief now. When's he going to save the day? It certainly wasn't day one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vVvrHPQZgs

Man, Bush waits fifteen minutes to respond to the 9/11 attacks (fair game, since the Obama administration brought it up) and he gets fried like an egg for not potentially freaking out little kids. Obama plays golf.

Face it, Obama is a bigger failure than Bush. And that guy already set a pretty darn low standard.

"I don't sense executive command."
 
[quote name='UncleBob']When's he going to save the day? It certainly wasn't day one.[/quote]
What was the decision he should have made when BP told him 1,000 barrels were leaking?
[quote name='UncleBob']blah obama blah bush blah blah[/quote]
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']A part of me wants to create a thread dedicated to my disappointment with Obama.[/QUOTE]
I'm down to pile on, but free marketeers demanding that the government essentially nationalize a company within 48 hours of a spill that the company lies to the government about is... insane? Ridiculous? Hypocrisy?
 
[quote name='speedracer']What was the decision he should have made when BP told him 1,000 barrels were leaking?[/QUOTE]

"I'm gonna go on vacation and play me some golf!"

That's the right answer, yes?
 
If I understand correctly, the Secretary of the Interior and his Deputy were in the gulf region discussing the spill with BP the day after the explosion. At that point, I don't know about you, but I think sending a cabinet-level secretary to the scene was the appropriate response.

I like how the above video says on Day 5 he had BBQ, first because BBQ is fvcking good tasting, and second because I am sure the President of the United States spent the entire day eating BBQ. Like the president, faced with an incident of the likes the world has never seen, dealing with a hostile "partner" in BP, and a hostile minority party that will paint him as a socialist for trying to take over the operations, he's expected to solve the crisis without eating lunch. I also like how on day 10 it says he went to a fund raiser, missing how he put a moratorium on deep sea drilling that day. How about a video like this for every day that Bush didn't capture or kill Bin Laden? It'd be 4 hours long.
 
[quote name='speedracer']I'm down to pile on, but free marketeers demanding that the government essentially nationalize a company within 48 hours of a spill that the company lies to the government about is... insane? Ridiculous? Hypocrisy?[/QUOTE]

It seems to me that there is a whole field of options between "Nationalize BP" and "Take a vacation and play some golf.".

Now, I won't pretend to have the best answer. But then, I'm not the frickin' Commander in Chief either. If "Let's hit the links" is the best plan Obama can come up with, then we really are boned, aren't we?
 
I'm sure there was a whole field of options between 'sit there for 15 minutes' and 'walk out screaming and scaring the shit outta kids' for Bush during 9/11.

Now, I won't pretend to have the best answer. But then I'm not the frickin CiC either. If 'sit there for 15 minutes' is the best plan Bush can come up with...
 
Bush is irrelevant to Obama's response to the oil spill.

BP broke something. They need to pay until their assets are liquidated.

After their assets are gone, gas taxes need to be raised until this incident can be paid for in 10 to 20 years.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']It seems to me that there is a whole field of options between "Nationalize BP" and "Take a vacation and play some golf."[/quote]
Like what? I'd like to know. Bestow me with 3 simple options between nationalize and do nothing. Don't include involving the DOJ, DOE, bullying the company into coughing up a fund big enough to close California's budget shortfall without guaranteeing indemnity, shitcanning the head of the MMS, or spanking the BP CEO and chair in public because that's all been done.
Now, I won't pretend to have the best answer. But then, I'm not the frickin' Commander in Chief either. If "Let's hit the links" is the best plan Obama can come up with, then we really are boned, aren't we?
Click to expand...
I don't need the best answer. I don't think it's reasonable to hold you to a bar that high. Let's just go with 3 reasonable scenarios among the "whole field of options" that Obama could have done that you would have supported.
 
[quote name='IRHari']I'm sure there was a whole field of options between 'sit there for 15 minutes' and 'walk out screaming and scaring the shit outta kids' for Bush during 9/11.

Now, I won't pretend to have the best answer. But then I'm not the frickin CiC either. If 'sit there for 15 minutes' is the best plan Bush can come up with...[/QUOTE]

You're 100% correct.

I'm proud to say I didn't vote for someone that incompetent.

[quote name='speedracer']Like what? I'd like to know. Bestow me with 3 simple options between nationalize and do nothing.[/QUOTE]

Three things I'd do:

1.) Instead of our boys in Congress grandstanding and wasting time grilling BP executives with stupid questions along the lines of 'Is every drop of oil on Florida's beaches the result of BP's negligence?', they could either a.) Be working on bills of actual importance (Hey, how's that medicare bill goin'?) or b.) Be down on the Florida shores helping with the clean-up. At least then something useful would be done. Don't get me wrong, there needs to be investigation into what the hell went wrong, etc... but this kind of crap isn't helping anyone. Do you really think Heyward knows exactly what went wrong? Do you really think that even if he did explain it to these congressmen, they'd know what he was talking about?

2.) Instead of wasting taxpayer money on transportation, boarding and security details while Obama goes out and plays golf, how about he spends $200 on a Wii, $10 on a fake plastic club for the Wii Remote and take a vacation in the White House and save all that taxpayer money to help with the cleanup and such. (Yes, BP should pay for it, but they only have so much money.) Hell, spring for Tiger Woods and a Wii Motion Plus. I hear it's good.

3.) Instead of paying for groups of people to clean up and paying unemployment for the Rigmen that Obama's moratorium on drilling has put out of work, why not train the Rigmen on cleanup procedures? Seems like it would be handy to have a bunch of people in the area and already in the field knowing how to handle such a situation instead of flying in so many people.

4.) Bonus! Don't let your guys pull professional clean up vessels off the job for safety inspections when they could be out there cleaning up. http://abcnews.go.com/WN/bp-oil-spill-gov-bobby-jindals-wishes-crude/story?id=10946379 It's like pulling over a firetruck to check for seatbelts while someone's house is burning down. Could they not have rotated the ships they were checking? Looked for life vests and fire extinguishers while these guys were doing their jobs?

5.) Bonus x2. Smack the crap out of any BP personnel or BP hired goon that tries to keep reporters off of public property. That just ain't right.
 
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[quote name='speedracer']From Fightin Joe's apology:

I'm confused. What part was natural?[/QUOTE]

It is part of their epic struggle against reality.

Remember, Barton is acting relatively sane for a con since he is saying it was an act of god and not committed by Obama or his hippie terror squads.
 
Did you guys know that up until Obama became president, no other president had ever gone on vacation?
 
[quote name='Clak']Did you guys know that up until Obama became president, no other president had ever gone on vacation?[/QUOTE]

Much like comedy*, it's all about...


...


... timing.


*And by comedy, I mean one of those tragic Shakespeare ones...
 
Up until Obama, no other president has been black.

It's all about timing the outrage brah...

And by outrage I mean butthurt conservatives.
 
[quote name='IRHari']Up until Obama, no other president has been black.[/QUOTE]

Here's a shocker - someone points out flaws in Obama. Obama's black. Therefore, that someone must be racist.

Geeze, man - you liberals need to get a new MO. Either it's Bush's fault or the other guy's a racist.
 
Wow i didnt say anything about racism and i didnt accuse anyone of anything.

You guys sure read into things a little too much.
 
[quote name='IRHari']Wow i didnt say anything about racism and i didnt accuse anyone of anything.

You guys sure read into things a little too much.[/QUOTE]

Sure, sure.
 
Liberals read too much into things? Have you ever seen any of the looney tunes nut job conspiracies that glen beck has come up with?
 
[quote name='Clak']Liberals read too much into things? Have you ever seen any of the looney tunes nut job conspiracies that glen beck has come up with?[/QUOTE]

Does anyone know who this is a response to? I'm the one who mentioned "liberals" and IRHari was the one who said anything about "reading too much into things".... Are you having trouble with who's posting what again?
 
Rep. Joe Barton is ranked first among members of the House of Representatives for the most contributions received from the oil and gas industry, and number five among all members of Congress.[22]
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08plainview1.jpg


Ladies and gentleman if I say that I am an oilman....you will agree...
 
[quote name='IRHari']
08plainview1.jpg


Ladies and gentleman if I say that I am an oilman....you will agree...[/QUOTE]

I don't think his straw is big enough to drink this milkshake.
 
[quote name='IRHari']
08plainview1.jpg


Ladies and gentleman if I say that I am an oilman....you will agree...[/QUOTE]

If you receive campaign contributions from oil companies than you are pro "big oil". Is this your point?
 
*Doesn't check for life jackets and safety restrictions*

OMFG OBAMA DOESN'T CARE ABOUT COAST PEOPLE

*Preforms safety checks*

OMFG OBAMA DOESN'T CARE ABOUT COAST PEOPLE

I need a cigarette after the erection I just got.
 
I was watching on CNN some fat chick who looked like the fat chick from the Practice.

She complaining that 1.) http://www.whsv.com/nationalap/headlines/95890569.html we're in the process of raising taxes on oil and 2.) BP gets to claim their losses against their taxes.

Regarding 1.), how is it a bad idea that consumers pay the full cost of fuel?

Regarding 2.), considering the Gulf is going to be damaged for $1 trillion or so and BP is worth $150 billion, why are we concerned about their tax cut?
 
[quote name='Strell']*Doesn't check for life jackets and safety restrictions*

OMFG OBAMA DOESN'T CARE ABOUT COAST PEOPLE

*Preforms safety checks*

OMFG OBAMA DOESN'T CARE ABOUT COAST PEOPLE[/QUOTE]

Man, if only there was a some kind of middle-ground...

[quote name='UncleBob']
4.) Bonus! Don't let your guys pull professional clean up vessels off the job for safety inspections when they could be out there cleaning up. http://abcnews.go.com/WN/bp-oil-spill-gov-bobby-jindals-wishes-crude/story?id=10946379 It's like pulling over a firetruck to check for seatbelts while someone's house is burning down. Could they not have rotated the ships they were checking? Looked for life vests and fire extinguishers while these guys were doing their jobs?[/QUOTE]
 
[quote name='Strell']*Doesn't check for life jackets and safety restrictions*

OMFG OBAMA DOESN'T CARE ABOUT COAST PEOPLE

*Preforms safety checks*

OMFG OBAMA DOESN'T CARE ABOUT COAST PEOPLE

I need a cigarette after the erection I just got.[/QUOTE]

I would assume even you guys would admit it was a mistake to do those inspections at those particular times, but then again this is cag vs.

And sorry bout that UncleBob, didn't notice that you already posted that article.
 
[quote name='Strell']*Doesn't check for life jackets and safety restrictions*

OMFG OBAMA DOESN'T CARE ABOUT COAST PEOPLE

*Preforms safety checks*

OMFG OBAMA DOESN'T CARE ABOUT COAST PEOPLE

I need a cigarette after the erection I just got.[/QUOTE]

The spill has been going on for over two months now, as if some of the clean up crews being delayed for a few hours means anything.

The CAG Con Clown Car Crew still pouring out that funny car.
 
Well if you receive campaign contributions from oil companies and you end up shilling for those same companies even in indefensible situations...yeah, you're an oilman.
 
Here comes the knives.
BP has come under further pressure after one of its partners said the oil giant should foot the entire bill for the damage caused by the Gulf of Mexico spill.

Anadarko Petroleum, which owns a quarter of the ruptured Deepwater Horizon well, refused to accept any blame for the explosion that killed 11 workers and led to the US's worst environmental disaster.

The company's chairman and chief executive, Jim Hackett, said in a statement BP's actions probably amounted to "gross negligence or wilful misconduct".

BP's chief executive Tony Hayward, who was grilled about the disaster by Congress for seven hours on Thursday, said he "strongly disagreed" with the allegation and expected the firm's partners to "live up to their obligations".
Click to expand...

[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']I was watching on CNN some fat chick who looked like the fat chick from the Practice.[/QUOTE]
I sat next to her on an airplane once. I didn't enjoy it.
 
[quote name='IRHari']Well if you receive campaign contributions from oil companies and you end up shilling for those same companies even in indefensible situations...yeah, you're an oilman.[/QUOTE]

isn't that pretty much what business expect when they contribute?

I'll bet BP is pretty pissed that they are getting better returns from Barton than they are from Obama.
 
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