The "New Clique" Wrestling Thread

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Raw did a good job building to the Edge/Del Rio match (and perhaps setting up for a Christian turn to cause the win), and they did a magnificent job w/ Triple H/Undertaker. The "you can't win" aspect is something they haven't tried yet, so I would have preferred to see that start up several weeks ago and play out over the past few weeks. HBK's "what makes *you* think you can do what I couldn't?" was brilliant, but seems incomplete/inconsistent since HBK was gushing all over HHH's chances in the video clips from the past few weeks. Him leaving the ring all melodrmatic instead of telling him he couldn't win was a bit over the top, but it made sense. Triple H remained consistent in his "I am the game and blah blah blah hey look I have a leather jacket on" way. Little that he said was memorable, but the point came across clearly enough.

The Cena/Rock/Miz segment was a letdown once Cena opened his mouth. I get that he's sincere and honest or whatever, but first, he rolled over like a bitch and let Rock talk all kinds of trash about him without a direct retort. Second, he's still Cena. Jean shorts, my friend. You're killin' me. Third, Miz was again the bitch here. I guess that's the point, but for all the star power in this match, the only thing not in question is the outcome of the match.

Honestly, this Raw did a good job on the whole, but outlined the biggest problem with the promotion's lackadaisical recognition of pro wrestling entertainments anymore. Looking at the card, the outcome of these matches is totally foreseeable. There are sensible finishes (both titles switch, UT wins), risky finishes (Miz retains) and stupid as fuck finishes (Edge retains, HHH wins). The only reason they'd give us the stupid as fuck finishes is to fuck with us as viewers - replacing genuine unpredictability in pro wrestling matches with a veneer of improbability. They'll replace "anything can happen" with "what should happen didn't because we telegraphed it a bit too much." Which, in hindsight, is how you shouldn't book WM. People will watch this program in 20 years, which wrestlers understand quite well. So you don't want to have a shit finish, like UT/Giant Gonzalez (or worse, Hogan winning the belt from Yokozuna). They won't pick up an old copy of WWF: In Your House 25, but they will watch WMXII. So the booking here must make sense. WWE should think of it like a "final term paper" for the past 12 months. Bring it all together, make it memorable, send the crowd home happy.

I get a feeling one of those three marquee matches will not end they way it should because WWE wants to throw a curveball into the predictable booking. My money is on Del Rio v Edge.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Raw did a good job building to the Edge/Del Rio match (and perhaps setting up for a Christian turn to cause the win), and they did a magnificent job w/ Triple H/Undertaker. The "you can't win" aspect is something they haven't tried yet, so I would have preferred to see that start up several weeks ago and play out over the past few weeks. HBK's "what makes *you* think you can do what I couldn't?" was brilliant, but seems incomplete/inconsistent since HBK was gushing all over HHH's chances in the video clips from the past few weeks. Him leaving the ring all melodrmatic instead of telling him he couldn't win was a bit over the top, but it made sense. Triple H remained consistent in his "I am the game and blah blah blah hey look I have a leather jacket on" way. Little that he said was memorable, but the point came across clearly enough.

The Cena/Rock/Miz segment was a letdown once Cena opened his mouth. I get that he's sincere and honest or whatever, but first, he rolled over like a bitch and let Rock talk all kinds of trash about him without a direct retort. Second, he's still Cena. Jean shorts, my friend. You're killin' me. Third, Miz was again the bitch here. I guess that's the point, but for all the star power in this match, the only thing not in question is the outcome of the match.

Honestly, this Raw did a good job on the whole, but outlined the biggest problem with the promotion's lackadaisical recognition of pro wrestling entertainments anymore. Looking at the card, the outcome of these matches is totally foreseeable. There are sensible finishes (both titles switch, UT wins), risky finishes (Miz retains) and stupid as fuck finishes (Edge retains, HHH wins). The only reason they'd give us the stupid as fuck finishes is to fuck with us as viewers - replacing genuine unpredictability in pro wrestling matches with a veneer of improbability. They'll replace "anything can happen" with "what should happen didn't because we telegraphed it a bit too much." Which, in hindsight, is how you shouldn't book WM. People will watch this program in 20 years, which wrestlers understand quite well. So you don't want to have a shit finish, like UT/Giant Gonzalez (or worse, Hogan winning the belt from Yokozuna). They won't pick up an old copy of WWF: In Your House 25, but they will watch WMXII. So the booking here must make sense. WWE should think of it like a "final term paper" for the past 12 months. Bring it all together, make it memorable, send the crowd home happy.

I get a feeling one of those three marquee matches will not end they way it should because WWE wants to throw a curveball into the predictable booking. My money is on Del Rio v Edge.[/QUOTE]

Miz will retain.
 
[quote name='Ansé Solis']Miz will retain.[/QUOTE]

He really has to, I mean if he wasn't the champ, who would even care about him? Rock and Cena can sell merch and tix without the belt, not The Miz, not yet.
 
[quote name='Vacabck']He really has to, I mean if he wasn't the champ, who would even care about him? Rock and Cena can sell merch and tix without the belt, not The Miz, not yet.[/QUOTE]
Its like I said before, he has to win in order to become credible.
 
[quote name='SIUfan']Its like I said before, he has to win in order to become credible.[/QUOTE]

I think a win over Cena would be the perfect culmination of three years of failing to beat him. That said, he'll lose the belt the month after Mania.

:p
 
...you're fucking kidding me, my post was edited? It was the name of a character in a game for christsake. There's no malicious intent and the spelling is coincidental.

[quote name='mykevermin']Triple H remained consistent in his "I am the game and blah blah blah hey look I have a leather jacket on" way. Little that he said was memorable, but the point came across clearly enough.[/QUOTE]
I know you didn't like the smirk during week 1 of this stuff, but I thought the laugh and "...ma'am..." tip of the hat at the end of this segment was fucking glorious. He may as well have said "Yeah, you're dead. Have a good one, you silly bastard."
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Triple H remained consistent in his "I am the game and blah blah blah hey look I have a leather jacket on" way. Little that he said was memorable, but the point came across clearly enough.[/QUOTE]

I know you didn't like the smirk during week 1 of this stuff, but I thought the laugh and "...ma'am..." tip of the hat at the end of this segment was fucking glorious.
 
[quote name='KaneRobot']I know you didn't like the smirk during week 1 of this stuff, but I thought the laugh and "...ma'am..." tip of the hat at the end of this segment was fucking glorious. He may as well have said "Yeah, you're dead. Have a good one, you silly bastard."[/QUOTE]

It's all been geared toward humanizing the Undertaker, which I think it critically important in terms of evolving his character. It makes sense to portray him as such as he heads towards retirement in the next who knows how long. We can be certain that he won't be wrestling anything resembling a full time schedule, or even a Sting-in-TNA schedule at this point. So the tip of the hat, his own promo, and Triple H lauding things UT did to wrestle while quite injured all convey the viewer to recognize the 'deadman' is indeed mortal.

I thought the segment was very well done. Could have been shorter, though, by a good clip.
 
Not once since Cena won at Elimination Chamber has he cut a promo about how he will win the title at Wrestlemania. Typically when a face is going to win the title he will constantly talk about his quest to win the gold. This leads me to believe that The Miz will retain his title at Mania.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Raw did a good job building to the Edge/Del Rio match (and perhaps setting up for a Christian turn to cause the win), and they did a magnificent job w/ Triple H/Undertaker. The "you can't win" aspect is something they haven't tried yet, so I would have preferred to see that start up several weeks ago and play out over the past few weeks. HBK's "what makes *you* think you can do what I couldn't?" was brilliant, but seems incomplete/inconsistent since HBK was gushing all over HHH's chances in the video clips from the past few weeks. Him leaving the ring all melodrmatic instead of telling him he couldn't win was a bit over the top, but it made sense. Triple H remained consistent in his "I am the game and blah blah blah hey look I have a leather jacket on" way. Little that he said was memorable, but the point came across clearly enough.

The Cena/Rock/Miz segment was a letdown once Cena opened his mouth. I get that he's sincere and honest or whatever, but first, he rolled over like a bitch and let Rock talk all kinds of trash about him without a direct retort. Second, he's still Cena. Jean shorts, my friend. You're killin' me. Third, Miz was again the bitch here. I guess that's the point, but for all the star power in this match, the only thing not in question is the outcome of the match.

Honestly, this Raw did a good job on the whole, but outlined the biggest problem with the promotion's lackadaisical recognition of pro wrestling entertainments anymore. Looking at the card, the outcome of these matches is totally foreseeable. There are sensible finishes (both titles switch, UT wins), risky finishes (Miz retains) and stupid as fuck finishes (Edge retains, HHH wins). The only reason they'd give us the stupid as fuck finishes is to fuck with us as viewers - replacing genuine unpredictability in pro wrestling matches with a veneer of improbability. They'll replace "anything can happen" with "what should happen didn't because we telegraphed it a bit too much." Which, in hindsight, is how you shouldn't book WM. People will watch this program in 20 years, which wrestlers understand quite well. So you don't want to have a shit finish, like UT/Giant Gonzalez (or worse, Hogan winning the belt from Yokozuna). They won't pick up an old copy of WWF: In Your House 25, but they will watch WMXII. So the booking here must make sense. WWE should think of it like a "final term paper" for the past 12 months. Bring it all together, make it memorable, send the crowd home happy.

I get a feeling one of those three marquee matches will not end they way it should because WWE wants to throw a curveball into the predictable booking. My money is on Del Rio v Edge.[/QUOTE]

You know, thinking back you've got a great point. The outcomes of this year's 'Mania really come down to either: A) predictable or B) swerve just for the sake of having a swerve. I still feel like HHH/UT is a bit of a wildcard and really comes down to how UT really feels about HHH behind the scenes. At this point I feel pretty confident in saying UT has full creative control in his booking and if he wants to lay down for HHH he'll do it, but only if he feels HHH is worthy enough to him.

On the other hand though, we should look at UT/HHH from a standpoint of who could possibly break the streak? I can't think of anyone other than HHH who has the pull to do it. I don't think there's any chance UT would lay down for Super Cena and unless Hogan, Stone Cold, or the Rock were to come back those are the only other 3 I could see having as much pull as HHH.

This match is the strongest and most likely match for the streak to end we could possibly have. If UT wins this match (which I'm actually leaning toward) then he will retire undefeated at Wrestlemania because frankly there's no one else left for him to credibly lose to and he's running out of time.
 
A full on heel Cena could be a contender in one year's time for 20-0, I would think.

It requires WWE to get behind some guys and make them into credible title contenders so they don't have to rely on Cena, but it's possible. We may not be able to tell who those players are now, but that's because the opportunities are open and guys not pushed. Sheamus wasn't a contender until he won the belt (and arguably some time later than that, actually).

I think it was KaneRobot who brought it up first, but a heel Cena vs UT could be a fucking money match.
 
i've already heard multiple times that vince told taker years ago that he will not have him lose at WM... and taker wants to retire after 20-0... im sure it will be cena next year... so maybe when taker's last match takes place he wont be on the losing end...

i'd love to see miz retain the title... i just dont think WWE would have that happen... the only way i see miz retaining is if that match doesn't go on last... so then you'd see HHH/Taker last... who knows... i still think this is one of the worst WM cards in the last since WM16.
 
I don't think is the strongest and most likely match for the streak to end we could possibly have. If anything that was last year. There's no way he's going to lose the streak to HHH when Shawn's career was on the line. What purpose does Taker losing the streak to HHH have anyway? HHH will be out sooner rather than later too. If HHH could take him out in his "prime" years ago then he isn't going to do it now.
 
[quote name='Trakan']I don't think is the strongest and most likely match for the streak to end we could possibly have. If anything that was last year. There's no way he's going to lose the streak to HHH when Shawn's career was on the line. What purpose does Taker losing the streak to HHH have anyway? HHH will be out sooner rather than later too. If HHH could take him out in his "prime" years ago then he isn't going to do it now.[/QUOTE]

I should clarify. When I say this is the most likely match for UT to end the streak I specifically mean going forward. If you look back, I see last year's match as overall most likely as well. Going forward, I see UT ending the streak to HHH as the most likely with no other possible match up for next year being more likely. (Short of Hogan, Rock, or Stone Cold coming back which seem unlikely)
 
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