The Nightmare of Christian Cults
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[quote name='AdultLink']Err, no, people hate each other because humanity is a bloods thursty culture...
If you notice I also brought the Nazis into this. It isn't about influence as it's about how crazy you are about your beliefs.[/QUOTE]
Which both negate Islamic influence, which is why I asked in the first place - Nazis were not influence by Islam either, and were Christians in a Christian culture, though they weren't really doing what they were necessarily in the name of Christianity.
In Rome pre-Christianity, homosexuality was not as stigmatized, afterwards, at various times, homosexuals were killed. This is what JolietJake was saying, and you responded to him by saying that Islam was a bigger influence for the hatred of homosexuals.
Tell me, is western culture more influenced by Christianity or Islam?
Anyway, you've already fallen back on that claim, so I don't expect you to really have an answer that in any way relates to what you said originally. It's pretty obvious that Islam is not the major factor behind hatred of homosexuals in the west.
You can make an argument about religion only being a justification for an otherwise bloodthirsty human condition, which you didn't do in the post I was responding to, but that's really an incomplete answer. Justifications for some are catalysts and reasons for others.
If you notice I also brought the Nazis into this. It isn't about influence as it's about how crazy you are about your beliefs.[/QUOTE]
Which both negate Islamic influence, which is why I asked in the first place - Nazis were not influence by Islam either, and were Christians in a Christian culture, though they weren't really doing what they were necessarily in the name of Christianity.
In Rome pre-Christianity, homosexuality was not as stigmatized, afterwards, at various times, homosexuals were killed. This is what JolietJake was saying, and you responded to him by saying that Islam was a bigger influence for the hatred of homosexuals.
Tell me, is western culture more influenced by Christianity or Islam?
Anyway, you've already fallen back on that claim, so I don't expect you to really have an answer that in any way relates to what you said originally. It's pretty obvious that Islam is not the major factor behind hatred of homosexuals in the west.
You can make an argument about religion only being a justification for an otherwise bloodthirsty human condition, which you didn't do in the post I was responding to, but that's really an incomplete answer. Justifications for some are catalysts and reasons for others.
jputahraptor
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[quote name='JolietJake']Oh yes, Christians have never done harm to anyone.[/QUOTE]
Out of all the religions or religious identities, I think Christians do the most good work around the world to provide relief to the poor and sick and don't expect anything in return. Anyone can call themselves a Christian or an atheist but it's narrowminded to look for the extreme cases in each of them and then to label the rest of them as such. I'm not trying to change any minds here but I'm proud to be a Christian and to see all the good they do, even if you all will just focus on the bad.
Out of all the religions or religious identities, I think Christians do the most good work around the world to provide relief to the poor and sick and don't expect anything in return. Anyone can call themselves a Christian or an atheist but it's narrowminded to look for the extreme cases in each of them and then to label the rest of them as such. I'm not trying to change any minds here but I'm proud to be a Christian and to see all the good they do, even if you all will just focus on the bad.
JolietJake
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Well i wish i could ignore history as well as you do.
It's like comparing the Nazis the Neo-Nazis. Granted i know that's an extreme comparison, but you can't ignore the history of an organization when judging it.
You can't judge atheists as a whole because it is the natural state of human beings. We're all born atheists, we learn about religion later on. To judge atheists as a whole would basically be judging nature itself.
It's like comparing the Nazis the Neo-Nazis. Granted i know that's an extreme comparison, but you can't ignore the history of an organization when judging it.
You can't judge atheists as a whole because it is the natural state of human beings. We're all born atheists, we learn about religion later on. To judge atheists as a whole would basically be judging nature itself.
fullmetalfan720
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[quote name='JolietJake']Well i wish i could ignore history as well as you do.
It's like comparing the Nazis the Neo-Nazis. Granted i know that's an extreme comparison, but you can't ignore the history of an organization when judging it.
You can't judge atheists as a whole because it is the natural state of human beings. We're all born atheists, [/quote]
You aren't born an atheist. You are born without a grasp of certain concepts, like religion. You can't deny the existance of God if you can't even grasp the concept of religion.
(No, Hitler was not a Christian. He actually wanted to destroy Christianity.)
See:
http://www.lawandreligion.com/nurinst1.shtml
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/endC.htm
Those dictators, alone, killed around 150 million people. I guess that reflects poorly on atheists? And hey, guess what. Them there terrorists in the Iraq be Muslim. Should we judge an entire religion on extremists? Or on people who use their religion as an excuse to commit crimes? No, we shouldn't.
It's like comparing the Nazis the Neo-Nazis. Granted i know that's an extreme comparison, but you can't ignore the history of an organization when judging it.
You can't judge atheists as a whole because it is the natural state of human beings. We're all born atheists, [/quote]
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=atheist
You aren't born an atheist. You are born without a grasp of certain concepts, like religion. You can't deny the existance of God if you can't even grasp the concept of religion.
Well, if we are going to judge Christians by some things that some extremists did, let's be fair and do it with everyone. Mao, Stalin, Hitler were all atheists.
(No, Hitler was not a Christian. He actually wanted to destroy Christianity.)
See:
http://www.lawandreligion.com/nurinst1.shtml
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/endC.htm
Those dictators, alone, killed around 150 million people. I guess that reflects poorly on atheists? And hey, guess what. Them there terrorists in the Iraq be Muslim. Should we judge an entire religion on extremists? Or on people who use their religion as an excuse to commit crimes? No, we shouldn't.
The Crotch
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Oh, for 
s sake.
...
Proper post coming up in a minute.
EDIT: Okay, here's the proper, post-oh-no-he-di'nt post.
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=atheist
You aren't born an atheist. You are born without a grasp of certain concepts, like religion. You can't deny the existance of God if you can't even grasp the concept of religion.[/QUOTE]
Congratulations! You have taken one narrow definition of a nuanced concept and pretended that it is the only one. Because shades of grey are foring pussies.
[quote name='fullmetalfan720'] Well, if we are going to judge Christians by some things that some extremists did, let's be fair and do it with everyone. Mao, Stalin, Hitler were all atheists.
(No, Hitler was not a Christian. He actually wanted to destroy Christianity.)[/QUOTE]
To call Hitler an out-and-out Christian is going a bit far for me; again, he was a good deal more nuanced than that. To say that he was an atheist is batshiting crazy. This is not the sort of thing that an atheist wears. "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord" are not the words of an atheist. Now, sure, one could argue that there was an element of "keeping up appearances", and I'm fine with that. But going all "Hitler was an atheist!" just flies in the face of too much god damn evidence.
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']Should we judge an entire religion on extremists? Or on people who use their religion as an excuse to commit crimes? No, we shouldn't.[/QUOTE]
Now, that is an area where I'm with you.
s sake....
Proper post coming up in a minute.
EDIT: Okay, here's the proper, post-oh-no-he-di'nt post.
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=atheist
You aren't born an atheist. You are born without a grasp of certain concepts, like religion. You can't deny the existance of God if you can't even grasp the concept of religion.[/QUOTE]
Congratulations! You have taken one narrow definition of a nuanced concept and pretended that it is the only one. Because shades of grey are for
ing pussies.[quote name='fullmetalfan720'] Well, if we are going to judge Christians by some things that some extremists did, let's be fair and do it with everyone. Mao, Stalin, Hitler were all atheists.
(No, Hitler was not a Christian. He actually wanted to destroy Christianity.)[/QUOTE]
To call Hitler an out-and-out Christian is going a bit far for me; again, he was a good deal more nuanced than that. To say that he was an atheist is batshit
ing crazy. This is not the sort of thing that an atheist wears. "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord" are not the words of an atheist. Now, sure, one could argue that there was an element of "keeping up appearances", and I'm fine with that. But going all "Hitler was an atheist!" just flies in the face of too much god damn evidence.[quote name='fullmetalfan720']Should we judge an entire religion on extremists? Or on people who use their religion as an excuse to commit crimes? No, we shouldn't.[/QUOTE]
Now, that is an area where I'm with you.
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[quote name='SpazX']... Nazis were not influence by Islam either, and were Christians in a Christian culture, though they weren't really doing what they were necessarily in the name of Christianity.[/quote]
I beg to differ:
http://books.google.com/books?id=_-IbsuxSQxcC&pg=PA153&lpg=PA153&dq=hitler+influence+islam+WWII&source=bl&ots=D8diXt5K7h&sig=Eqqhdk9utaLzb9_A961lSl7bTi0&hl=en&ei=Phu8StuKHcPj8AbnrOiSDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#v=onepage&q=&f=false
Hitler's alliance with Islam is an interesting and often neglected portion of history.
I beg to differ:
http://books.google.com/books?id=_-IbsuxSQxcC&pg=PA153&lpg=PA153&dq=hitler+influence+islam+WWII&source=bl&ots=D8diXt5K7h&sig=Eqqhdk9utaLzb9_A961lSl7bTi0&hl=en&ei=Phu8StuKHcPj8AbnrOiSDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#v=onepage&q=&f=false
Hitler's alliance with Islam is an interesting and often neglected portion of history.
Trancendental
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[quote name='fullmetalfan720']http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=atheist
You aren't born an atheist. You are born without a grasp of certain concepts, like religion. You can't deny the existance of God if you can't even grasp the concept of religion.
Well, if we are going to judge Christians by some things that some extremists did, let's be fair and do it with everyone. Mao, Stalin, Hitler were all atheists.
(No, Hitler was not a Christian. He actually wanted to destroy Christianity.)
See:
http://www.lawandreligion.com/nurinst1.shtml
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/endC.htm
Those dictators, alone, killed around 150 million people. I guess that reflects poorly on atheists? And hey, guess what. Them there terrorists in the Iraq be Muslim. Should we judge an entire religion on extremists? Or on people who use their religion as an excuse to commit crimes? No, we shouldn't.[/QUOTE]
Mao and Stalin were political extremists. Most often atrocities are committed by megalomaniacs who endorse dogmatism and represent the extremes of political and/or religious philosophy.
If people want to get into a more nuanced arguement about which political or religious philosophies lend themselves most easily to extremism, we can go there too.
You aren't born an atheist. You are born without a grasp of certain concepts, like religion. You can't deny the existance of God if you can't even grasp the concept of religion.
Well, if we are going to judge Christians by some things that some extremists did, let's be fair and do it with everyone. Mao, Stalin, Hitler were all atheists.
(No, Hitler was not a Christian. He actually wanted to destroy Christianity.)
See:
http://www.lawandreligion.com/nurinst1.shtml
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/endC.htm
Those dictators, alone, killed around 150 million people. I guess that reflects poorly on atheists? And hey, guess what. Them there terrorists in the Iraq be Muslim. Should we judge an entire religion on extremists? Or on people who use their religion as an excuse to commit crimes? No, we shouldn't.[/QUOTE]
Mao and Stalin were political extremists. Most often atrocities are committed by megalomaniacs who endorse dogmatism and represent the extremes of political and/or religious philosophy.
If people want to get into a more nuanced arguement about which political or religious philosophies lend themselves most easily to extremism, we can go there too.
Trancendental
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[quote name='jputahraptor']Out of all the religions or religious identities, I think Christians do the most good work around the world to provide relief to the poor and sick and don't expect anything in return. Anyone can call themselves a Christian or an atheist but it's narrowminded to look for the extreme cases in each of them and then to label the rest of them as such. I'm not trying to change any minds here but I'm proud to be a Christian and to see all the good they do, even if you all will just focus on the bad.[/QUOTE]
BTW - the pic in your sig is of Obama (a Christian) portrayed as Hitler.
BTW - the pic in your sig is of Obama (a Christian) portrayed as Hitler.
[quote name='bmulligan']I beg to differ:
http://books.google.com/books?id=_-...esult&ct=result&resnum=4#v=onepage&q=&f=false
Hitler's alliance with Islam is an interesting and often neglected portion of history.[/QUOTE]
Hitler was allied with the Japanese too, that doesn't mean they (or Imperial Shinto) influenced the ideology he had before he even came to power. He was, afterall, going for an aryan nation you know.
http://books.google.com/books?id=_-...esult&ct=result&resnum=4#v=onepage&q=&f=false
Hitler's alliance with Islam is an interesting and often neglected portion of history.[/QUOTE]
Hitler was allied with the Japanese too, that doesn't mean they (or Imperial Shinto) influenced the ideology he had before he even came to power. He was, afterall, going for an aryan nation you know.
The Crotch
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[quote name='camoor']BTW - the pic in your sig is of Obama (a Christian) portrayed as Hitler.[/QUOTE]And, curiously, is called "ObamaSocialist.jpg".
Hooray for CommuNazis!
Hooray for CommuNazis!
jputahraptor
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[quote name='camoor']BTW - the pic in your sig is of Obama (a Christian) portrayed as Hitler.[/QUOTE]
There isn't a super secret Christian club with our own handshake and everything, I believe Obama is a Christian in name only, like all politicians in general. There are a lot of people who claim to be Christian but pick and choose what they want to believe (abortion, abstinence, etc.) you can still think for yourself, I am in favor of capital punishment while the church is not, but you can't go out and or murder and still call yourself a Christian, kinda of like playing Wii and calling yourself a gamer, haha, there's a difference between disagreeing or defying and personally I think they just believe it when they need it and aren't committed to it, therefore Hitler Obama stays.
There isn't a super secret Christian club with our own handshake and everything, I believe Obama is a Christian in name only, like all politicians in general. There are a lot of people who claim to be Christian but pick and choose what they want to believe (abortion, abstinence, etc.) you can still think for yourself, I am in favor of capital punishment while the church is not, but you can't go out and
or murder and still call yourself a Christian, kinda of like playing Wii and calling yourself a gamer, haha, there's a difference between disagreeing or defying and personally I think they just believe it when they need it and aren't committed to it, therefore Hitler Obama stays.
Kirin Lemon
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[quote name='jputahraptor']There isn't a super secret Christian club with our own handshake and everything, I believe Obama is a Christian in name only, like all politicians in general. There are a lot of people who claim to be Christian but pick and choose what they want to believe (abortion, abstinence, etc.) you can still think for yourself, I am in favor of capital punishment while the church is not, but you can't go out and or murder and still call yourself a Christian, kinda of like playing Wii and calling yourself a gamer, haha, there's a difference between disagreeing or defying and personally I think they just believe it when they need it and aren't committed to it, therefore Hitler Obama stays.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't Christ forgive? This way of thinking isn't very Christian of you. Then again, the mental gymnastics you use to justify your terrible, un-Christian behavior *is* rather Christian, I suppose.
Eh, screw it, you're a pretty shitty Christian. Jesus hates you.
or murder and still call yourself a Christian, kinda of like playing Wii and calling yourself a gamer, haha, there's a difference between disagreeing or defying and personally I think they just believe it when they need it and aren't committed to it, therefore Hitler Obama stays.[/QUOTE]Doesn't Christ forgive? This way of thinking isn't very Christian of you. Then again, the mental gymnastics you use to justify your terrible, un-Christian behavior *is* rather Christian, I suppose.
Eh, screw it, you're a pretty shitty Christian. Jesus hates you.
[quote name='jputahraptor']There isn't a super secret Christian club with our own handshake and everything, I believe Obama is a Christian in name only, like all politicians in general. There are a lot of people who claim to be Christian but pick and choose what they want to believe (abortion, abstinence, etc.) you can still think for yourself, I am in favor of capital punishment while the church is not, but you can't go out and or murder and still call yourself a Christian, kinda of like playing Wii and calling yourself a gamer, haha, there's a difference between disagreeing or defying and personally I think they just believe it when they need it and aren't committed to it, therefore Hitler Obama stays.[/QUOTE]
To the tune of "don't wake daddy" (how that stayed in my head for all these years...):
Noooo trruuee Scotsman!
or murder and still call yourself a Christian, kinda of like playing Wii and calling yourself a gamer, haha, there's a difference between disagreeing or defying and personally I think they just believe it when they need it and aren't committed to it, therefore Hitler Obama stays.[/QUOTE]To the tune of "don't wake daddy" (how that stayed in my head for all these years...):
Noooo trruuee Scotsman!
JolietJake
Banned
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=atheist
You aren't born an atheist. You are born without a grasp of certain concepts, like religion. You can't deny the existance of God if you can't even grasp the concept of religion.
Well, if we are going to judge Christians by some things that some extremists did, let's be fair and do it with everyone. Mao, Stalin, Hitler were all atheists.
(No, Hitler was not a Christian. He actually wanted to destroy Christianity.)
See:
http://www.lawandreligion.com/nurinst1.shtml
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/endC.htm
Those dictators, alone, killed around 150 million people. I guess that reflects poorly on atheists? And hey, guess what. Them there terrorists in the Iraq be Muslim. Should we judge an entire religion on extremists? Or on people who use their religion as an excuse to commit crimes? No, we shouldn't.[/QUOTE]Fine, you want to argue semantics, call it agnosticism then. Either way, it's an absence of religion.
But no, it does not reflect poorly on Atheists. We do not have some sort of devine rules that are supposed to be guiding us. On the other hand, an Atheistic peace activist who murders a bunch of people, you could certainly call them a hypocrite. Hitler wasn't a peace activist.
I won't lop all Christians in with the worst of them, i do however have a serious problem with people who blindly defend any religion and ignores history. I don't even care if you're not Catholic, they had the largest effect on history of an Christan sect. The crusades were no small deal in any sense of the word. George Bush often invoked the name of god in speeches he gave, as if he was being divinely guided, something i'm sure the crusaders also felt.
You aren't born an atheist. You are born without a grasp of certain concepts, like religion. You can't deny the existance of God if you can't even grasp the concept of religion.
Well, if we are going to judge Christians by some things that some extremists did, let's be fair and do it with everyone. Mao, Stalin, Hitler were all atheists.
(No, Hitler was not a Christian. He actually wanted to destroy Christianity.)
See:
http://www.lawandreligion.com/nurinst1.shtml
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/endC.htm
Those dictators, alone, killed around 150 million people. I guess that reflects poorly on atheists? And hey, guess what. Them there terrorists in the Iraq be Muslim. Should we judge an entire religion on extremists? Or on people who use their religion as an excuse to commit crimes? No, we shouldn't.[/QUOTE]Fine, you want to argue semantics, call it agnosticism then. Either way, it's an absence of religion.
But no, it does not reflect poorly on Atheists. We do not have some sort of devine rules that are supposed to be guiding us. On the other hand, an Atheistic peace activist who murders a bunch of people, you could certainly call them a hypocrite. Hitler wasn't a peace activist.
I won't lop all Christians in with the worst of them, i do however have a serious problem with people who blindly defend any religion and ignores history. I don't even care if you're not Catholic, they had the largest effect on history of an Christan sect. The crusades were no small deal in any sense of the word. George Bush often invoked the name of god in speeches he gave, as if he was being divinely guided, something i'm sure the crusaders also felt.
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thrustbucket
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[quote name='JolietJake']Well i wish i could ignore history as well as you do.
It's like comparing the Nazis the Neo-Nazis. Granted i know that's an extreme comparison, but you can't ignore the history of an organization when judging it.[/quote]
No, it's more like hating Germans today because Germans were the Nazi's in history. It makes no sense and being unable to forget history is the primary cause of most conflict in the world today. Remember that.
Totally disagree. I firmly believe if you let babies be born in a vacuum, it wouldn't take long for them to start what you'd recognize as religion. It's always been the case since pre-history. People need to see deeper meaning behind their lives and everything and they will eventually start to focus on that, naturally. I'm not saying every person born would, but enough in a group would to be measurable.
Now your counter will likely be that religion was created in the first place just to control others, but I call that a symptom of religion, not the reason for it.
It's like comparing the Nazis the Neo-Nazis. Granted i know that's an extreme comparison, but you can't ignore the history of an organization when judging it.[/quote]
No, it's more like hating Germans today because Germans were the Nazi's in history. It makes no sense and being unable to forget history is the primary cause of most conflict in the world today. Remember that.
Totally disagree. I firmly believe if you let babies be born in a vacuum, it wouldn't take long for them to start what you'd recognize as religion. It's always been the case since pre-history. People need to see deeper meaning behind their lives and everything and they will eventually start to focus on that, naturally. I'm not saying every person born would, but enough in a group would to be measurable.
Now your counter will likely be that religion was created in the first place just to control others, but I call that a symptom of religion, not the reason for it.
Trancendental
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[quote name='jputahraptor']There isn't a super secret Christian club with our own handshake and everything, I believe Obama is a Christian in name only, like all politicians in general. There are a lot of people who claim to be Christian but pick and choose what they want to believe (abortion, abstinence, etc.) you can still think for yourself, I am in favor of capital punishment while the church is not, but you can't go out and or murder and still call yourself a Christian, kinda of like playing Wii and calling yourself a gamer, haha, there's a difference between disagreeing or defying and personally I think they just believe it when they need it and aren't committed to it, therefore Hitler Obama stays.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and I don't think the people in the article have true Christian values. They belong to a mind-controlling cult that is Christian in name only. Although after reading the bible, I'm not sure that true Christian values are much better.
Let me spell it out for you. You were the one that accused me of focusing on the negative things Christians do. Just because I called out a cult on creating a tragic situation in which 5 people died needlessly. And then for the sake of your petty politics, you take the most famous American Christian today and you photoshop him into a Hitler costume.
And to be honest, noone is interested in the mental gymnastics you need to go through to justify your filthy political rhetoric. You left the forum of civilized political discussion when you posted that trash in your sig.
or murder and still call yourself a Christian, kinda of like playing Wii and calling yourself a gamer, haha, there's a difference between disagreeing or defying and personally I think they just believe it when they need it and aren't committed to it, therefore Hitler Obama stays.[/QUOTE]Yeah, and I don't think the people in the article have true Christian values. They belong to a mind-controlling cult that is Christian in name only. Although after reading the bible, I'm not sure that true Christian values are much better.
Let me spell it out for you. You were the one that accused me of focusing on the negative things Christians do. Just because I called out a cult on creating a tragic situation in which 5 people died needlessly. And then for the sake of your petty politics, you take the most famous American Christian today and you photoshop him into a Hitler costume.
And to be honest, noone is interested in the mental gymnastics you need to go through to justify your filthy political rhetoric. You left the forum of civilized political discussion when you posted that trash in your sig.
jputahraptor
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[quote name='Kirin Lemon']Doesn't Christ forgive? This way of thinking isn't very Christian of you. Then again, the mental gymnastics you use to justify your terrible, un-Christian behavior *is* rather Christian, I suppose.
Eh, screw it, you're a pretty shitty Christian. Jesus hates you.[/QUOTE]
Well real mature, it's to bad the colleges brainwash their students and this is how they conduct themselves. Must really suck that the majority of the country as well as the world is religious, it's to bad your so much smarter than everyone else and yet are powerless to do anything more than rant on a liberal message board about it.
What terrible behavior? I'm for capital punishment, oh no, that is my view and not the churches, I'm for forgiveness but they still have to be punished, that is the point of prisons correct? Or do you object to them to? I had a concentration in Criminal Justice for a time and I spoke to crime victims who lost loved ones, and actually seeing the effects of crime on people might not make you so liberal. But then again, I'm sure your in favor of killing unborn babies because the supreme court tells you when life begins instead of using your own common sense. Believe me, I as well as many Christians sleep very well at night knowing we do what we can to help out those less fortunate. I may be far from a perfect Christian, but I'm leaps and bounds ahead of where you are sir.
I wonder what you believe in? Maybe you can enlighten me.
Eh, screw it, you're a pretty shitty Christian. Jesus hates you.[/QUOTE]
Well real mature, it's to bad the colleges brainwash their students and this is how they conduct themselves. Must really suck that the majority of the country as well as the world is religious, it's to bad your so much smarter than everyone else and yet are powerless to do anything more than rant on a liberal message board about it.
What terrible behavior? I'm for capital punishment, oh no, that is my view and not the churches, I'm for forgiveness but they still have to be punished, that is the point of prisons correct? Or do you object to them to? I had a concentration in Criminal Justice for a time and I spoke to crime victims who lost loved ones, and actually seeing the effects of crime on people might not make you so liberal. But then again, I'm sure your in favor of killing unborn babies because the supreme court tells you when life begins instead of using your own common sense. Believe me, I as well as many Christians sleep very well at night knowing we do what we can to help out those less fortunate. I may be far from a perfect Christian, but I'm leaps and bounds ahead of where you are sir.
I wonder what you believe in? Maybe you can enlighten me.
jputahraptor
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[quote name='camoor']Yeah, and I don't think the people in the article have true Christian values. They belong to a mind-controlling cult that is Christian in name only. Although after reading the bible, I'm not sure that true Christian values are much better.
Let me spell it out for you. You were the one that accused me of focusing on the negative things Christians do. Just because I called out a cult on creating a tragic situation in which 5 people died needlessly. And then for the sake of your petty politics, you take the most famous American Christian today and you photoshop him into a Hitler costume.
And to be honest, noone is interested in the mental gymnastics you need to go through to justify your filthy political rhetoric. You left the forum of civilized political discussion when you posted that trash in your sig.[/QUOTE]
I didn't photoshop it, I don't even know how to do it, I just took it from a picture I saw online, I don't even know how to post the picture, so that's why the link is like that, I'm not to good with computers!
Let me spell it out for you. You were the one that accused me of focusing on the negative things Christians do. Just because I called out a cult on creating a tragic situation in which 5 people died needlessly. And then for the sake of your petty politics, you take the most famous American Christian today and you photoshop him into a Hitler costume.
And to be honest, noone is interested in the mental gymnastics you need to go through to justify your filthy political rhetoric. You left the forum of civilized political discussion when you posted that trash in your sig.[/QUOTE]
I didn't photoshop it, I don't even know how to do it, I just took it from a picture I saw online, I don't even know how to post the picture, so that's why the link is like that, I'm not to good with computers!
JolietJake
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[quote name='thrustbucket']No, it's more like hating Germans today because Germans were the Nazi's in history. It makes no sense and being unable to forget history is the primary cause of most conflict in the world today. Remember that.
Totally disagree. I firmly believe if you let babies be born in a vacuum, it wouldn't take long for them to start what you'd recognize as religion. It's always been the case since pre-history. People need to see deeper meaning behind their lives and everything and they will eventually start to focus on that, naturally. I'm not saying every person born would, but enough in a group would to be measurable.
Now your counter will likely be that religion was created in the first place just to control others, but I call that a symptom of religion, not the reason for it.[/QUOTE]
You said start what i would call a religion, which is who any religion is created. Starting something does not mean you were born already knowing or believing in it. Relgion is an idea, an idea has to either being created by someone themselves or taught to them, we aren't born with them.
And as far as not being able to forget history, i assume you mean that we should forget it? I mean i can get over it, but to ignore history is just dangerous. Hell, ignoring history is part of the reason we're in an pointless war in Iraq.
Totally disagree. I firmly believe if you let babies be born in a vacuum, it wouldn't take long for them to start what you'd recognize as religion. It's always been the case since pre-history. People need to see deeper meaning behind their lives and everything and they will eventually start to focus on that, naturally. I'm not saying every person born would, but enough in a group would to be measurable.
Now your counter will likely be that religion was created in the first place just to control others, but I call that a symptom of religion, not the reason for it.[/QUOTE]
You said start what i would call a religion, which is who any religion is created. Starting something does not mean you were born already knowing or believing in it. Relgion is an idea, an idea has to either being created by someone themselves or taught to them, we aren't born with them.
And as far as not being able to forget history, i assume you mean that we should forget it? I mean i can get over it, but to ignore history is just dangerous. Hell, ignoring history is part of the reason we're in an pointless war in Iraq.
JolietJake
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So now we're going to attack higher education too? Oh those evil liberal educators, how dare they try to empart knowledge.
The Crotch
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That's it, I'm in' lost.
in' lost.
fullmetalfan720
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[quote name='JolietJake']Fine, you want to argue semantics, call it agnosticism then. Either way, it's an absence of religion.
But no, it does not reflect poorly on Atheists. We do not have some sort of devine rules that are supposed to be guiding us. On the other hand, an Atheistic peace activist who murders a bunch of people, you could certainly call them a hypocrite. Hitler wasn't a peace activist.
I won't lop all Christians in with the worst of them, i do however have a serious problem with people who blindly defend any religion and ignores history. I don't even care if you're not Catholic, they had the largest effect on history of an Christan sect. The crusades were no small deal in any sense of the word. George Bush often invoked the name of god in speeches he gave, as if he was being divinely guided, something i'm sure the crusaders also felt.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't call George Bush a real Christian. I wouldn't call anyone who believes that Christianity condones murder a real Christian.
But no, it does not reflect poorly on Atheists. We do not have some sort of devine rules that are supposed to be guiding us. On the other hand, an Atheistic peace activist who murders a bunch of people, you could certainly call them a hypocrite. Hitler wasn't a peace activist.
I won't lop all Christians in with the worst of them, i do however have a serious problem with people who blindly defend any religion and ignores history. I don't even care if you're not Catholic, they had the largest effect on history of an Christan sect. The crusades were no small deal in any sense of the word. George Bush often invoked the name of god in speeches he gave, as if he was being divinely guided, something i'm sure the crusaders also felt.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't call George Bush a real Christian. I wouldn't call anyone who believes that Christianity condones murder a real Christian.
fullmetalfan720
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[quote name='SpazX']Again, no true Scotsman.[/QUOTE]
Not when one of the Ten Commandments of Christianity is, "Thou Shall Not Kill," and not when killing innocents is a major sin.
Not when one of the Ten Commandments of Christianity is, "Thou Shall Not Kill," and not when killing innocents is a major sin.
Trancendental
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[quote name='fullmetalfan720']I wouldn't call George Bush a real Christian. I wouldn't call anyone who believes that Christianity condones murder a real Christian.[/QUOTE]
[quote name='TheBible']Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives. (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
etc[/QUOTE]
I don't know, depending on the crime, the act of murder seems pretty Christian to me. In condoning capital punishment, jputahraptor's only offense against Christianity is probably that he's too lenient (I'm giving him credit that he doesn't want to stone to death fortunetellers, hopefully I'm not being too generous)
[quote name='TheBible']Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives. (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
etc[/QUOTE]
I don't know, depending on the crime, the act of murder seems pretty Christian to me. In condoning capital punishment, jputahraptor's only offense against Christianity is probably that he's too lenient (I'm giving him credit that he doesn't want to stone to death fortunetellers, hopefully I'm not being too generous)
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']Not when one of the Ten Commandments of Christianity is, "Thou Shall Not Kill," and not when killing innocents is a major sin.[/QUOTE]
Then the Christian thing to do is kill the people who you can justify killing! In which case Bush is a great Christian!
Then the Christian thing to do is kill the people who you can justify killing! In which case Bush is a great Christian!
jputahraptor
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[quote name='camoor']I don't know, depending on the crime, the act of murder seems pretty Christian to me. In condoning capital punishment, jputahraptor's only offense against Christianity is probably that he's too lenient (I'm giving him credit that he doesn't want to stone to death fortunetellers, hopefully I'm not being too generous)[/QUOTE]
Now your putting words in my mouth. First of all, Christians believe that capital punishment is wrong, second of all capital punishment is a state endorsed thing, so it's government not church. Third of all when I say I'm for capital punishment, it's not for just anyone, but I do in my heart believe that there are some men to evil to live, I choose to disagree with the church here. I don't throw the switch on the electric care but my compassion for men who murder many innocent people is where I don't see eye to eye with the church, they may pray for them and still try to save there souls but I guess I'm to bitter or realistic to believe there is any hope for a lifer who has raped and murdered. I never stated that we should clean house on all the prisions in America, don't make this view about me the scapegoat of your argument. I have more love for a unborn baby than for a murderer and only a looniest of liberals would think the opposite.
Now your putting words in my mouth. First of all, Christians believe that capital punishment is wrong, second of all capital punishment is a state endorsed thing, so it's government not church. Third of all when I say I'm for capital punishment, it's not for just anyone, but I do in my heart believe that there are some men to evil to live, I choose to disagree with the church here. I don't throw the switch on the electric care but my compassion for men who murder many innocent people is where I don't see eye to eye with the church, they may pray for them and still try to save there souls but I guess I'm to bitter or realistic to believe there is any hope for a lifer who has raped and murdered. I never stated that we should clean house on all the prisions in America, don't make this view about me the scapegoat of your argument. I have more love for a unborn baby than for a murderer and only a looniest of liberals would think the opposite.
jputahraptor
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[quote name='camoor']I don't know, depending on the crime, the act of murder seems pretty Christian to me. In condoning capital punishment, jputahraptor's only offense against Christianity is probably that he's too lenient (I'm giving him credit that he doesn't want to stone to death fortunetellers, hopefully I'm not being too generous)[/QUOTE]
It is interesting that you either choose to ignore or are just ignorant to the fact that Muslim women don't have many of the same rights as men over in the Middle East. They basically can't drive, vote, or show more than there eyes. And if they are caught having sex outside of wedlock they are often beaten or killed. So while your being the big humitarian and showing us links, why not fly out there and get in some people's face about it there. But don't even think about drawing a picture of Mohammad, nah just rag on Jesus, it's cool!
Religion is not infalable, God may be, but ordinary people are each going to run there own way with it, if you believe in nothing I guess that makes it easier for you to critize those that do, I can't make an argument built around nothing but you have a silly argument pointing out some extreme examples as being the justification for this board and choosing to ignore the charities and works that Chirstians do. I can't seem to find any athesist charities either so maybe you can show me some good that you guys do to help on a daily basis.
It is interesting that you either choose to ignore or are just ignorant to the fact that Muslim women don't have many of the same rights as men over in the Middle East. They basically can't drive, vote, or show more than there eyes. And if they are caught having sex outside of wedlock they are often beaten or killed. So while your being the big humitarian and showing us links, why not fly out there and get in some people's face about it there. But don't even think about drawing a picture of Mohammad, nah just rag on Jesus, it's cool!
Religion is not infalable, God may be, but ordinary people are each going to run there own way with it, if you believe in nothing I guess that makes it easier for you to critize those that do, I can't make an argument built around nothing but you have a silly argument pointing out some extreme examples as being the justification for this board and choosing to ignore the charities and works that Chirstians do. I can't seem to find any athesist charities either so maybe you can show me some good that you guys do to help on a daily basis.
Trancendental
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[quote name='jputahraptor']Now your putting words in my mouth. First of all, Christians believe that capital punishment is wrong, second of all capital punishment is a state endorsed thing, so it's government not church. Third of all when I say I'm for capital punishment, it's not for just anyone, but I do in my heart believe that there are some men to evil to live, I choose to disagree with the church here. I don't throw the switch on the electric care but my compassion for men who murder many innocent people is where I don't see eye to eye with the church, they may pray for them and still try to save there souls but I guess I'm to bitter or realistic to believe there is any hope for a lifer who has raped and murdered. I never stated that we should clean house on all the prisions in America, don't make this view about me the scapegoat of your argument. I have more love for a unborn baby than for a murderer and only a looniest of liberals would think the opposite.[/QUOTE]
I quoted the bible. If Christians ignore the parts of the bible that endorse capital punishment, why hasn't one of the many versions of the bible been edited to omit these parts?
I quoted the bible. If Christians ignore the parts of the bible that endorse capital punishment, why hasn't one of the many versions of the bible been edited to omit these parts?
The Crotch
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You quoted the Old Testament. Don't make me get all Daroga, here.
The Crotch
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Regardless of whether or not parts of the New Testament are morally abhorrent, they are relatively low on the whole "kill anyone that looks at you funny/eats lobster" stuff that Camoor was talking about.
And just for the record, I am stilling lost in this conversation.
And just for the record, I am still
ing lost in this conversation.[quote name='rabbitt']The New Testament is even more evil than the Old Testament.
You mean now I cannot die and experience relief, I have to burn forever? Schweet.[/QUOTE]
That....wasn't in the Old Testament?
The general understanding is that the NT allows for the opportunity for anyone to reach Heaven, provided they commit to Jesus's teachings. The OT only allowed paradise for the chosen people - the Jews - and eternal damnation for everyone else.
This is sort of...one of the major differences between the two. I'd like to think anyone engaged in a religious debate would know this - it'sday minute one stuff.
You mean now I cannot die and experience relief, I have to burn forever? Schweet.[/QUOTE]
That....wasn't in the Old Testament?
The general understanding is that the NT allows for the opportunity for anyone to reach Heaven, provided they commit to Jesus's teachings. The OT only allowed paradise for the chosen people - the Jews - and eternal damnation for everyone else.
This is sort of...one of the major differences between the two. I'd like to think anyone engaged in a religious debate would know this - it's
Trancendental
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[quote name='The Crotch']Regardless of whether or not parts of the New Testament are morally abhorrent, they are relatively low on the whole "kill anyone that looks at you funny/eats lobster" stuff that Camoor was talking about.
And just for the record, I am stilling lost in this conversation.[/QUOTE]
Since when is OT less important then NT? Y'all make up more rules on the fly then Calvinball.
[quote name='Jesus']"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)
[/QUOTE]
But see Jputa - I can give TheCrotch a pass on this stuff because he doesn't go around proclaiming he's a better Christian then half the country. But Jputa, for someone who goes around acting holier-then-thou you really should learn a little more about your religion.
And just for the record, I am still
ing lost in this conversation.[/QUOTE]Since when is OT less important then NT? Y'all make up more rules on the fly then Calvinball.
[quote name='Jesus']"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)
[/QUOTE]
But see Jputa - I can give TheCrotch a pass on this stuff because he doesn't go around proclaiming he's a better Christian then half the country. But Jputa, for someone who goes around acting holier-then-thou you really should learn a little more about your religion.
I always wonder in the midst of every religious thread I've seen on the net if anyone so against Christianity/Jesus/God/whatever has actually read the Bible, or just loves to cut and paste quotes out of it in order to defend their opinion. A practice which, of course, is no different from a zealot doing it, and in the long run, makes you look no smarter nor less fanatical.
Chopping out on quote from Jesus doesn't change the fact that it's all really meant to be taken on a whole level. The fact that Jesus makes a metaphorical call to "Following me != peace" and suddenly translating that into something pro-War or pro-schism or whatever is laughable.
We're all so happy to think we're so inclined toward smart and intellectual debate, and then we just all pull out book-by-its-cover mentality in a hopeless thrashing toward proofs.
But hey, don't let that stop you from making brash conclusions to jump to. I've even got a mat for it. The internets just doesn't call it a form a fanaticism because the mobs 'round these parts happen to agree against a certain thing, and then rouse up any sediment in the abyss they can to build an island out of.
Chopping out on quote from Jesus doesn't change the fact that it's all really meant to be taken on a whole level. The fact that Jesus makes a metaphorical call to "Following me != peace" and suddenly translating that into something pro-War or pro-schism or whatever is laughable.
We're all so happy to think we're so inclined toward smart and intellectual debate, and then we just all pull out book-by-its-cover mentality in a hopeless thrashing toward proofs.
But hey, don't let that stop you from making brash conclusions to jump to. I've even got a mat for it. The internets just doesn't call it a form a fanaticism because the mobs 'round these parts happen to agree against a certain thing, and then rouse up any sediment in the abyss they can to build an island out of.
The Crotch
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[quote name='camoor']But see Jputa - I can give TheCrotch a pass on this stuff because he doesn't go around proclaiming he's a better Christian then half the country.[/QUOTE]Actually, you should give me "a pass on this stuff" 'cause I'm an atheist.
As for the whole NT over OT thing... eh, there are probably people here better at explaining that than I.
As for the whole NT over OT thing... eh, there are probably people here better at explaining that than I.
fullmetalfan720
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[quote name='camoor']I don't know, depending on the crime, the act of murder seems pretty Christian to me. In condoning capital punishment, jputahraptor's only offense against Christianity is probably that he's too lenient (I'm giving him credit that he doesn't want to stone to death fortunetellers, hopefully I'm not being too generous)[/QUOTE]
That would be the Old Testament that you quoted.
[quote name='SpazX']Then the Christian thing to do is kill the people who you can justify killing! In which case Bush is a great Christian![/QUOTE]
Not in the kind of Christianity I believe in.
That would be the Old Testament that you quoted.
[quote name='SpazX']Then the Christian thing to do is kill the people who you can justify killing! In which case Bush is a great Christian![/QUOTE]
Not in the kind of Christianity I believe in.
Trancendental
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[quote name='fullmetalfan720']That would be the Old Testament that you quoted.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't aware that modern Christians have abandoned the OT. Seems like a waste of paper to keep attaching it to all those NT printings, n'est pas?
I wasn't aware that modern Christians have abandoned the OT. Seems like a waste of paper to keep attaching it to all those NT printings, n'est pas?
Trancendental
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[quote name='Strell']I always wonder in the midst of every religious thread I've seen on the net if anyone so against Christianity/Jesus/God/whatever has actually read the Bible, or just loves to cut and paste quotes out of it in order to defend their opinion. A practice which, of course, is no different from a zealot doing it, and in the long run, makes you look no smarter nor less fanatical.
Chopping out on quote from Jesus doesn't change the fact that it's all really meant to be taken on a whole level. The fact that Jesus makes a metaphorical call to "Following me != peace" and suddenly translating that into something pro-War or pro-schism or whatever is laughable.
We're all so happy to think we're so inclined toward smart and intellectual debate, and then we just all pull out book-by-its-cover mentality in a hopeless thrashing toward proofs.
But hey, don't let that stop you from making brash conclusions to jump to. I've even got a mat for it. The internets just doesn't call it a form a fanaticism because the mobs 'round these parts happen to agree against a certain thing, and then rouse up any sediment in the abyss they can to build an island out of.[/QUOTE]
Chopping out on quote from Jesus doesn't change the fact that it's all really meant to be taken on a whole level. The fact that Jesus makes a metaphorical call to "Following me != peace" and suddenly translating that into something pro-War or pro-schism or whatever is laughable.
We're all so happy to think we're so inclined toward smart and intellectual debate, and then we just all pull out book-by-its-cover mentality in a hopeless thrashing toward proofs.
But hey, don't let that stop you from making brash conclusions to jump to. I've even got a mat for it. The internets just doesn't call it a form a fanaticism because the mobs 'round these parts happen to agree against a certain thing, and then rouse up any sediment in the abyss they can to build an island out of.[/QUOTE]
[quote name='camoor']I wasn't aware that modern Christians have abandoned the OT. Seems like a waste of paper to keep attaching it to all those NT printings, n'est pas?[/QUOTE]
Time to play catch up then. Let's start with this: modern Christians don't have temple worship, don't offer animal sacrifice, and they eat pork! Who knew?!
Time to play catch up then. Let's start with this: modern Christians don't have temple worship, don't offer animal sacrifice, and they eat pork! Who knew?!
The Crotch
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[quote name='camoor']I wasn't aware that modern Christians have abandoned the OT. Seems like a waste of paper to keep attaching it to all those NT printings, n'est pas?[/QUOTE]
Seems like everyone here is saying "Christians" like it's one single, homogeneous group. I went after what's-his-name for making the same mistake with regards to atheism; didn't expect to see it come up for Christianity. Not just here, with regards to the OT, but... I dunno, it's a common thing throughout this thread, from Christians and non-Christians alike. *shrug*
Anyway, since nobody else is going to, I should probably address the whole Old Testament not mattering as much thing.
Let's see. I kinda forget how most of this shit goes, so please, feel free to correct my-ups.
Way back when, God formed a covenant with man. Included are the various Old Testament rules that look really silly/god damn horrible to us now. Hence the "Ark of the Covenant" being called... well, the Ark of the Covenant.
Then slightly way-back-when, God formed a new covenant (see: various bits of the New Testament). Depending on which Christian (see: the whole "shades of grey" thing I keep harping on) you talk to, this abrogates none/some/all of the old covenant. Jesus basically said-you to dietary restrictions, not working on the Sabbath, etc. So... there. That's why Christians are allowed to eat shellfish.
Now, you might ask, "Why make all those horrible old laws if God's just going to override them in a few thousand years? Isn't he perfect? Why would he make bad laws?"
The answer to that is kinda lame, and again, different parts are emphasized/ignored by different groups.
First of all, the Israelites needed rules to separate themselves from all the various hostile groups in their area - your Amalakites, your Philistines, your etc. Without rules strictly enforcing cultural differences, God's chosen people would have simply... disintegrated.
"But seriously? Slavery? What the?"
They lived in shitty times. Everyone kept slaves. If they didn't, they would have been at such an enormous disadvantage that they would have been wiped out by one of the aforementioned "etc."s
"But what's with all the rape? And the killing? Telling people not to practice witchcraft is one thing; beating them to death with rocks is super dickish."
Yep. But again - shitty times, shitty people. Ye olde Israelites wouldn't have accepted anything even approaching enlightened, so God did the best he could with what he had.
"That'sing retarded."
I know.
EDIT: I dunno about the rest of you guys, but on my screen, I've got a nice line of "Shaq-Fu"s that remind me of an escalator. Awesome.
Seems like everyone here is saying "Christians" like it's one single, homogeneous group. I went after what's-his-name for making the same mistake with regards to atheism; didn't expect to see it come up for Christianity. Not just here, with regards to the OT, but... I dunno, it's a common thing throughout this thread, from Christians and non-Christians alike. *shrug*
Anyway, since nobody else is going to, I should probably address the whole Old Testament not mattering as much thing.
Let's see. I kinda forget how most of this shit goes, so please, feel free to correct my
-ups.Way back when, God formed a covenant with man. Included are the various Old Testament rules that look really silly/god damn horrible to us now. Hence the "Ark of the Covenant" being called... well, the Ark of the Covenant.
Then slightly way-back-when, God formed a new covenant (see: various bits of the New Testament). Depending on which Christian (see: the whole "shades of grey" thing I keep harping on) you talk to, this abrogates none/some/all of the old covenant. Jesus basically said
-you to dietary restrictions, not working on the Sabbath, etc. So... there. That's why Christians are allowed to eat shellfish.Now, you might ask, "Why make all those horrible old laws if God's just going to override them in a few thousand years? Isn't he perfect? Why would he make bad laws?"
The answer to that is kinda lame, and again, different parts are emphasized/ignored by different groups.
First of all, the Israelites needed rules to separate themselves from all the various hostile groups in their area - your Amalakites, your Philistines, your etc. Without rules strictly enforcing cultural differences, God's chosen people would have simply... disintegrated.
"But seriously? Slavery? What the
?"They lived in shitty times. Everyone kept slaves. If they didn't, they would have been at such an enormous disadvantage that they would have been wiped out by one of the aforementioned "etc."s
"But what's with all the rape? And the killing? Telling people not to practice witchcraft is one thing; beating them to death with rocks is super dickish."
Yep. But again - shitty times, shitty people. Ye olde Israelites wouldn't have accepted anything even approaching enlightened, so God did the best he could with what he had.
"That's
ing retarded."I know.
...
Therefore, God is a moral relativist.
EDIT: I dunno about the rest of you guys, but on my screen, I've got a nice line of "Shaq-Fu"s that remind me of an escalator. Awesome.
[quote name='Strell']I always wonder in the midst of every religious thread I've seen on the net if anyone so against Christianity/Jesus/God/whatever has actually read the Bible, or just loves to cut and paste quotes out of it in order to defend their opinion. A practice which, of course, is no different from a zealot doing it, and in the long run, makes you look no smarter nor less fanatical.
Chopping out on quote from Jesus doesn't change the fact that it's all really meant to be taken on a whole level. The fact that Jesus makes a metaphorical call to "Following me != peace" and suddenly translating that into something pro-War or pro-schism or whatever is laughable.
We're all so happy to think we're so inclined toward smart and intellectual debate, and then we just all pull out book-by-its-cover mentality in a hopeless thrashing toward proofs.
But hey, don't let that stop you from making brash conclusions to jump to. I've even got a mat for it. The internets just doesn't call it a form a fanaticism because the mobs 'round these parts happen to agree against a certain thing, and then rouse up any sediment in the abyss they can to build an island out of.[/QUOTE]
I started reading the bible but got disappointed rather quickly. Jesus walks into a town, Roman guard stops him and says "I need your healing powers, my slave is sick" and Jesus did go and heal the slave....and then he walked away. No speech about how morally wrong the Roman was for having a slave or even freeing the slave. I would just expect the son of god who really is god to have a little better moral compass.
Chopping out on quote from Jesus doesn't change the fact that it's all really meant to be taken on a whole level. The fact that Jesus makes a metaphorical call to "Following me != peace" and suddenly translating that into something pro-War or pro-schism or whatever is laughable.
We're all so happy to think we're so inclined toward smart and intellectual debate, and then we just all pull out book-by-its-cover mentality in a hopeless thrashing toward proofs.
But hey, don't let that stop you from making brash conclusions to jump to. I've even got a mat for it. The internets just doesn't call it a form a fanaticism because the mobs 'round these parts happen to agree against a certain thing, and then rouse up any sediment in the abyss they can to build an island out of.[/QUOTE]
I started reading the bible but got disappointed rather quickly. Jesus walks into a town, Roman guard stops him and says "I need your healing powers, my slave is sick" and Jesus did go and heal the slave....and then he walked away. No speech about how morally wrong the Roman was for having a slave or even freeing the slave. I would just expect the son of god who really is god to have a little better moral compass.
[quote name='perdition(troy']ya, anonymous. wahoo, a whole 8000 people that protested world wide.[/QUOTE]
The same people who harassed the family of someone who committed suicide, because they needed a way to pass the time and fill their own empty lives.
If anonymous wants to be useful, maybe they shoud do us all a favor and give up internet access.
The same people who harassed the family of someone who committed suicide, because they needed a way to pass the time and fill their own empty lives.
If anonymous wants to be useful, maybe they shoud do us all a favor and give up internet access.
[quote name='homeland']I started reading the bible but got disappointed rather quickly. Jesus walks into a town, Roman guard stops him and says "I need your healing powers, my slave is sick" and Jesus did go and heal the slave....and then he walked away. No speech about how morally wrong the Roman was for having a slave or even freeing the slave. I would just expect the son of god who really is god to have a little better moral compass.[/QUOTE]
This is an extraordinarily bad argument, even by internets standards.
Not as bad as camoor being the baby he usually is though.
This is an extraordinarily bad argument, even by internets standards.
Not as bad as camoor being the baby he usually is though.
Trancendental
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[quote name='Strell']This is an extraordinarily bad argument, even by internets standards.
Not as bad as camoor being the baby he usually is though.[/QUOTE]
Sorry I hurt your feelings, I was just having a little fun. Look at it this way - it's not like anyone is going to get converted here, so what's wrong with a little levity.
I get a little tired of the ol' Christian run-around, especially now that the truthiness defense force is coming out. If the bible is so metaphorical in modern American Christianity, why was our most recent ex-President a fundamentalist?
I think TheCrotch is on to something. Although while he says moral relativist, the only way I see the Christian God making any sense is in a gnostic way.
Not as bad as camoor being the baby he usually is though.[/QUOTE]
Sorry I hurt your feelings, I was just having a little fun. Look at it this way - it's not like anyone is going to get converted here, so what's wrong with a little levity.
I get a little tired of the ol' Christian run-around, especially now that the truthiness defense force is coming out. If the bible is so metaphorical in modern American Christianity, why was our most recent ex-President a fundamentalist?
I think TheCrotch is on to something. Although while he says moral relativist, the only way I see the Christian God making any sense is in a gnostic way.
*whooosh*
The problem I'm expressing is that the conversation can't take place on the intermotrons because of the built-in attitude from you and yours. Even if I appeal toward polite and honest discussion, it just doesn't happen, and it's because you're closeting in any opposition as zealotry. It's a black and white issue, which makes you no different from fanaticals. An assumption that's quite wrong when it comes to me, particularly, because I'm not running around with "six thousand years old" signs or protesting abortion clinics.
So the problem is with you, solely, because I'm up for questioning and conversation. You aren't. You never are, never have been, and never will be, and will just crawl back into your self-serving little hole where you make pewpew sounds and pretend you're superior.
You want to deal with zealots with a particular brand of narcissism by reflecting their own tactics, but making sure to specifically say "I'm not doing the same thing." Pull out all this "I give up when the ole Xtian rope-a-dope comes out" rhetoric and then imitate it with less panache than you're so convinced you have, because hey - why stand up and ask for talk when you can duck the conversation because you're so bored that you're on the net arguing it, yet telling me you're life is so interesting you don't have time?
Yeah, ok. I'm cool with that. It's just another missed opportunity. I'll log it away with all the others and further chip away at the hope.
Do add in some anti-RIAA stuff while you're at it. Let's make sure all your pistons are firing.
I can't even get mykevermin to do this, so I'm not sure why I'd expect more from any of his me-toos.
The problem I'm expressing is that the conversation can't take place on the intermotrons because of the built-in attitude from you and yours. Even if I appeal toward polite and honest discussion, it just doesn't happen, and it's because you're closeting in any opposition as zealotry. It's a black and white issue, which makes you no different from fanaticals. An assumption that's quite wrong when it comes to me, particularly, because I'm not running around with "six thousand years old" signs or protesting abortion clinics.
So the problem is with you, solely, because I'm up for questioning and conversation. You aren't. You never are, never have been, and never will be, and will just crawl back into your self-serving little hole where you make pewpew sounds and pretend you're superior.
You want to deal with zealots with a particular brand of narcissism by reflecting their own tactics, but making sure to specifically say "I'm not doing the same thing." Pull out all this "I give up when the ole Xtian rope-a-dope comes out" rhetoric and then imitate it with less panache than you're so convinced you have, because hey - why stand up and ask for talk when you can duck the conversation because you're so bored that you're on the net arguing it, yet telling me you're life is so interesting you don't have time?
Yeah, ok. I'm cool with that. It's just another missed opportunity. I'll log it away with all the others and further chip away at the hope.
Do add in some anti-RIAA stuff while you're at it. Let's make sure all your pistons are firing.
I can't even get mykevermin to do this, so I'm not sure why I'd expect more from any of his me-toos.
The Crotch
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Aaaaand I'm lost again.
God damn you bastards.
God damn you bastards.
bread's done