The Official Lair Thread - Update with Analog Control + DLC on April 15

GameSpot follows suit with a 4.5.

"You shouldn't play Lair. Not unless you have some morbid interest in experiencing what is quite possibly one of the worst control schemes ever devised. It's a shame because as a cinematic experience, it's stunning to watch. As a game, it's a nightmare and an embarrassment. It sounds like a fantastic idea: You fly around on a dragon, spewing fire and clawing at other reptiles while generally wreaking havoc. Too bad you're forced to use Sixaxis controls that destroy the possibility of fun and replace it with the constant need to scream expletives at your television screen."
Click to expand...

EDIT: imascrub beat me to it.
 
I hate that both sites gushed over the game and controls in particular in previews, and then slam it hard when it's released.

The Game Informer review (7.25, 8) disliked the controls as well, but not enough to just absolutely hate on the game like this.

Interesting reads though.
 
Getting a demo on PSN as fast as possible would be Factor 5's smartest move, if the controls aren't as bad as the reviews make them out to be.

The terrible reviews are keeping consumers away who planned on picking it up, reassurance with a demo could push them over the edge of buying the game.

But, if the controls are dogshit like the reviews say, maybe it is wise for them to not drop a demo. At least they'll get some ill-informed or brave customers.
 
[quote name='zewone']Getting a demo on PSN as fast as possible would be Factor 5's smartest move, if the controls aren't as bad as the reviews make them out to be.

The terrible reviews are keeping consumers away who planned on picking it up, reassurance with a demo could push them over the edge of buying the game.

But, if the controls are dogshit like the reviews say, maybe it is wise for them to not drop a demo. At least they'll get some ill-informed or brave customers.[/quote]Totally agree. I bet the average player is going to like it just fine.

Not even close to a masterpiece, but it's probably not trash either.
 
[quote name='dallow']Totally agree. I bet the average player is going to like it just fine.

Not even close to a masterpiece, but it's probably not trash either.[/quote]

The game is on its way from gamefly so ill see how it goes. I did get Warhawk and I do use the sixxaxis motion sensor thing and it is really cool. It opens up alot of movemnt to the game. BUT I have to admit I was getting really frustraded because it seemed to be sluggish but after playing awhile and actually getting use to it it felt great. SO i am going to keep an open mind with lair and actually give it some time. We will see.:bouncy:
 
I picked it up today, along with a good friend of mine. Took advantage of that 10% off GS coupon one last time. ;)

Since I'm away from my PS3 tonight (visiting the folks), I had left mine sealed until my friend could give me some impressions. He called me up earlier and gave me some very detailed impressions. Basically, he really enjoyed it and said it's definitely a keeper. He said it isn't a AAA title, and he did mention a few minor quibbles he was having with it, but he said none of the complaints he had were deal-breakers. He said he absolutely didn't regret the purchase, and that's all I needed to hear.

Cracked mine open after that, just to check out the manual. Can't wait to get back home tomorrow to try it out!

BTW, just for shits & giggles, I looked up on GamerRankings some other last-gen games that I really enjoyed but ended up getting around the same overal % that Lair has:

Chaos Legion
Drakengard
Gotcha Force
P.N. 03
Kirby's Air Ride

Now, none of those games are perfect (well...Chaos Legion is damn close imo), but I loved all of them. Reviews are *not* always right, even when there is a consensus among reviewers.
 
Still enjoying it. Had a few "holy shit that was awesome" moments.

A friend was over earlier today to see the game, and on the first level when you are flying towards the catapults my friend was all "holy shit" since there were so many fireballs flying at you.
 
Now how does the controles feel? I have to admit there are alot of games out there that got bad reviews and I love them to death. OK get ready to laugh...I still play Star Wars Galaxies....ok stop laughing
 
[quote name='icruise']I was told at my GC that they only got enough copies of Bioshock for preorders as well. That seemed weird to me. Anyway, it might not have anything to do with how well they expect it to sell.[/quote]

I think it's more or less them just wanting to get games out to those that want them. The company's been short changing stores on games for months, I know they're squirreling away funds for Halo 3.

All this talk has made me want to pick this up. Is there no way to use the analog joysticks if you have the sixaxis controller?
 
[quote name='argyle']I picked it up today, along with a good friend of mine. Took advantage of that 10% off GS coupon one last time. ;)

Since I'm away from my PS3 tonight (visiting the folks), I had left mine sealed until my friend could give me some impressions. He called me up earlier and gave me some very detailed impressions. Basically, he really enjoyed it and said it's definitely a keeper. He said it isn't a AAA title, and he did mention a few minor quibbles he was having with it, but he said none of the complaints he had were deal-breakers. He said he absolutely didn't regret the purchase, and that's all I needed to hear.

Cracked mine open after that, just to check out the manual. Can't wait to get back home tomorrow to try it out!

BTW, just for shits & giggles, I looked up on GamerRankings some other last-gen games that I really enjoyed but ended up getting around the same overal % that Lair has:

Chaos Legion
Drakengard
Gotcha Force
P.N. 03
Kirby's Air Ride

Now, none of those games are perfect (well...Chaos Legion is damn close imo), but I loved all of them. Reviews are *not* always right, even when there is a consensus among reviewers.[/QUOTE]

Agreed fucking 100% Chaos Legion was the shit. It is actually one game I played from start to finish and loved it. Also a game I actually finished and didn't just play for a few minutes and quit, (which for me is a common problem). Lair is in the same % as Chaos Legion eh? That just made this game a must have now.
 
[quote name='Scorch']I think it's more or less them just wanting to get games out to those that want them. The company's been short changing stores on games for months, I know they're squirreling away funds for Halo 3.

All this talk has made me want to pick this up. Is there no way to use the analog joysticks if you have the sixaxis controller?[/QUOTE]
Sadly no, if you have the Sixaxis you have to use motion control.

Still, I haven't had any problem with it besides doing 180's. I think I'm getting the feel of it though.
 
Do not read this if you plan to play the game, big spoiler, but I just got to a part where
Your dragon dies :cry: I don't like this game anymore
 
[quote name='whoknows']Do not read this if you plan to play the game, big spoiler, but I just got to a part where
Your dragon dies :cry: I don't like this game anymore
[/quote]
Oh man I cant stop Laughing LOL "I don't like this game anymore" There is a movie out there that the same thing happens.
In Dragon Heart the Dragon dies also...:cry:very sad
 
[quote name='whoknows']Do not read this if you plan to play the game, big spoiler, but I just got to a part where
Your dragon dies :cry: I don't like this game anymore
[/QUOTE]

:cry:
 
Eh, I don't really like this game. I'm not going to get into it, but I think people should definitely rent first before they buy. If you like it, then throw down the money for it. The graphics and sound are awesome. Also, don't read any reviews first before renting. That way, you will like or hate it on your own. I did not read the reviews first, but I felt the same way after playing for a couple of hours. I will wait for this to hit the bargain bin. It's a great buy at $20.
 
[quote name='whoknows']Wow. playing this with surround sound is an experience.[/quote]Did you get a surround sound set up in two hours?
 
[quote name='whoknows']Yes, I did :lol:[/quote]Hell yeah man! I think a surround setup is more important than an HDTV.

Enjoy!
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']...and the PStriple's search for a killer app continues.[/QUOTE]Warhawk, Resistance, and others says hi. Stay out of this thread troll. :roll:

Anyway, I'm going to give Lair a rent as soon as I can. I rarely listen to reviews, but I want to see how the controls work out myself.

Btw, I have surround sound. :D
 
[quote name='dallow']Hell yeah man! I think a surround setup is more important than an HDTV.

Enjoy![/QUOTE]
Now I have both and it's awesome.

To think a game made me buy surround sound :lol:
 
Sorry I didn't post like I meant to last night. After spending a couple of hours on Lair, I think it's fun. I am getting used to the control scheme, and the dogfighting with the dragons is intense. I would recommend renting this game first and then buying if you like it. I don't think its for everyone.
 
[quote name='The Mana Knight']Warhawk, Resistance, and others says hi. Stay out of this thread troll. :roll:

Anyway, I'm going to give Lair a rent as soon as I can. I rarely listen to reviews, but I want to see how the controls work out myself.

Btw, I have surround sound. :D[/QUOTE]

I'd definitely rent before you buy because it looks and sounds great, but it just wasn't for me (or my friend who ended up taking it back). This is usually my type of game. It's just a bit overvalued at $60. I'm thinking if it came out at $40, then it would be better. Obviously, I'm going to wait for bargain prices before I pick this up for my collection because I'm a game whore.

It reminds me a lot of The Bouncer for PS2 when that first came out (not going to elaborate).

A lot of people on this thread really like it though (which is probably why it's a Lair thread, duh!), so if you rent it and like, then pick it up.
 
Why was Factor 5 so insistent on using sixaxis controls... it's fine as an option, but don't force it on people. I wonder if that was Sony's doing... wanting this game to be a sixaxis game that justifies the controller feature.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']Why was Factor 5 so insistent on using sixaxis controls... it's fine as an option, but don't force it on people. I wonder if that was Sony's doing... wanting this game to be a sixaxis game that justifies the controller feature.[/quote]

I've wondered that too.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']Why was Factor 5 so insistent on using sixaxis controls... it's fine as an option, but don't force it on people. I wonder if that was Sony's doing... wanting this game to be a sixaxis game that justifies the controller feature.[/QUOTE]

Maybe they will put out a patch. I couldn't scroll through some of the menus in Ridge Racer 7 without using the regular D-pad, but I downloaded an update, so it works fine now. I'm sure they can do something.
 
Oh crap!

You can play the game on the PSP!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186459

lairpsp1.jpg
 
[quote name='opportunity777']Maybe they will put out a patch. I couldn't scroll through some of the menus in Ridge Racer 7 without using the regular D-pad, but I downloaded an update, so it works fine now. I'm sure they can do something.[/QUOTE]


I hope so; Lair was reviewed by EGM in Sept. 07 edition, and I remember one of the developers was interviewed and was defending the motion controls. Just patch it up, and make people happy. Lair should be reviewed for the PSP, it might get better reviews there. I'm definitely gonna get this game eventually.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']I hope so; Lair was reviewed by EGM in Sept. 07 edition, and I remember one of the developers was interviewed and was defending the motion controls. Just patch it up, and make people happy. Lair should be reviewed for the PSP, it might get better reviews there. I'm definitely gonna get this game eventually.[/QUOTE]

No need for the guy (or anyone else) to get defensive about it. Some people don't like the way the game controls with the Six Axis. If the game will get more sales from allowing players to change the control scheme, then maybe the developer should e-mail GameSpot and other review sites that bashed the game to re-review the game after the patch is released. Like you said, just put out an update that allows a customizable control scheme. Everyone will be a lot happier. Unfortunately, I feel like the game is a bit gaseous. It looks really pretty, but it feels flat when playing it. That's another issue entirely though :)

On the topic of bitching about controls ... I never figured out why the hell you couldn't assign buttons to whatever you wanted when playing games. If the PC can do it, then why can't the consoles? What the hell is up w/ no KB+mouse support (the vastly superior FPS setup) in console games? I understand the lack of KB+mouse for the Wii, but there is no excuse for MS not supporting this option when Sony said they would allow it in Unreal 3. It's just wrong, so wrong ...
 
I hate predefined controls! (I'm talkin generally)
I think it would do Lair quite well if they were to issue a patch to allow analog control.

And on a completely off game-topic note (but similar to opportunity's blurb about controls), whatever happened to Capcom's old snes days of assigning controls for their fighters, where you see the move, press the button for the level of punch or kick you want, and it'll automatically move on to the next move? I could set my controls in less than 2 seconds flat like that, but in the post-snes days they had to go and make it so you see the button, and make you scroll through each move until you find the one that you want.
 
[quote name='opportunity777']No need for the guy (or anyone else) to get defensive about it. Some people don't like the way the game controls with the Six Axis. If the game will get more sales from allowing players to change the control scheme, then maybe the developer should e-mail GameSpot and other review sites that bashed the game to re-review the game after the patch is released. Like you said, just put out an update that allows a customizable control scheme. Everyone will be a lot happier. Unfortunately, I feel like the game is a bit gaseous. It looks really pretty, but it feels flat when playing it. That's another issue entirely though :)

On the topic of bitching about controls ... I never figured out why the hell you couldn't assign buttons to whatever you wanted when playing games. If the PC can do it, then why can't the consoles? What the hell is up w/ no KB+mouse support (the vastly superior FPS setup) in console games? I understand the lack of KB+mouse for the Wii, but there is no excuse for MS not supporting this option when Sony said they would allow it in Unreal 3. It's just wrong, so wrong ...[/QUOTE]


Developers think that they got the perfect control scheme and everyone is going to like it. The only reason why Unreal has mouse/KB support is because the game is being marketed to bring in some PC gamers to the PS3.
Besides the dreamcast who had a keyboard that would work w/ their console... PS3.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']Why was Factor 5 so insistent on using sixaxis controls... it's fine as an option, but don't force it on people. I wonder if that was Sony's doing... wanting this game to be a sixaxis game that justifies the controller feature.[/QUOTE]I doubt Sony did really. Lair seemed to be one of those games Sony abandon to an extent. They didn't really mention Lair at the Gamer's Day event in May, and there was zero mention of Lair at E3 (oh course they mentioned Warhawk over and over again). Lair more so seems like one of those games Sony is publishing, but not really hyping it (It was mostly the media who did). All other PS3 games have it as an option (or most), so I really doubt it was forced upon them. I remember Factor 5 once saying they were very glad Sony decided to implement the motion controls, which is one reason they were unsure of leaving Nintendo (since they didn't think Sony would do it).

From what I have heard, the motion controls in Warhawk don't work at all, but the ones in Lair are more playable.

To an extent, I just think motion controls are something that's not growing on the market yet. I remember when the analog stick first came (like to PS1), many found the analog too sensitive in games (especially racers) and stuck to using the D-pad. After a while, it became more accepted and everyone is using an analog stick now. I know those who said they use motion controls in MotorStorm, and say it works out a lot better (but takes time to learn).
 
[quote name='The Mana Knight']I doubt Sony did really. Lair seemed to be one of those games Sony abandon to an extent. They didn't really mention Lair at the Gamer's Day event in May, and there was zero mention of Lair at E3 (oh course they mentioned Warhawk over and over again). Lair more so seems like one of those games Sony is publishing, but not really hyping it (It was mostly the media who did). All other PS3 games have it as an option (or most), so I really doubt it was forced upon them. I remember Factor 5 once saying they were very glad Sony decided to implement the motion controls, which is one reason they were unsure of leaving Nintendo (since they didn't think Sony would do it).

From what I have heard, the motion controls in Warhawk don't work at all, but the ones in Lair are more playable.

To an extent, I just think motion controls are something that's not growing on the market yet. I remember when the analog stick first came (like to PS1), many found the analog too sensitive in games (especially racers) and stuck to using the D-pad. After a while, it became more accepted and everyone is using an analog stick now. I know those who said they use motion controls in MotorStorm, and say it works out a lot better (but takes time to learn).[/QUOTE]

LOL that's a good point I forgot.. I remember when I played Mario 64 for the first time, (first time I used analog controls) I thought I was never going to be able to use the analog controls. But analog controls were meant to be a primary control scheme. On the ps3 I think people like it more as a secondary function - (ex. Folklore's use of the motion controls to pull souls from enemies) but like you said... it could turn out that people will be more accepting of the PS3 motion controls. Its probably already accepted... by fans.. only reviewers hate the game; if this game was on the Wii w/ the same control scheme... how would it be rated / accepted?
 
wow, this game has got to be the biggest disappointment for me all year (so far for the ps3 at least). It's a pity the six-axis didn't work out well like it did for warhawk.
 
[quote name='whoknows']They are making the controls sound way worse than they actually are for sure.[/QUOTE]

Aren't you the person that actually liked Sonic 360? If so, then it's fairly obvious that you would love lair. Also obvious is that I should stay the fuck away from it.

I own all three systems, I have little reason to play Lair and pretend to like it just for Sony's sake.

[quote name='The Mana Knight']

To an extent, I just think motion controls are something that's not growing on the market yet. [/QUOTE]

The Wii kills your argument. It's not about people accepting them, more so that developers need to implement them correctly.
 
I agree that the motion control takes a while to get used to, but I kinda enjoy it now. My problem with Lair is the lock on system, it's horrible. Why o why can't I lock on the dragon in front of me instead of the one to my left or right? The game has it's moments, but it's definitely not the "must have" ps3 game.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxPKXfRRNAY

Did someone post this video yet? It's a player going through the game with both his controller an screen on camera, you get too see how to properly play, along with how your controller movements translate into action.

Seems to me, one problem people would have is that they play this like an FPS or action shooter, expecting super unrealistically responsive controls, when this game instead handles like you were steering a very large and powerful dragon via rope reigns.

And honestly, in defense of the developers, making a realistic a dragon as that super nimble despite it looking like it has a lot of weight would make it seem spastic and silly should players move their controllers too quickly.

I wonder if a lot of these control issues could have been dealt with by training the player not to get too spastic with the controls via various player feedback mechanisms. For example, if you give the dragon too many movement orders too quickly (aka moving the controller too fast in too many different directions) the dragon will get slightly annoyed, make an annoyed grunt, and maybe shake a little. This wouldn't affect the gameplay, but its player feedback that he's being too wild with his controller movements. Then if he keeps doing this, there could be a voice over from one of his wingmen that he should ease off the reigns or he'll confuse his dragon.

It's like riding a horse, if you start yanking those reigns all over the place, the horse is more likely to buck you off than listen.

Also, how many of these reviewers actually went through the flight training all the way? I kinda wonder about this because all these reviewers want to do is power through the game in a day under a strict deadline without having to learn the controls. This is why mediocre games with controls they know might get scored better than a game with controls they have to learn.
 
[quote name='-Never4ever-']Aren't you the person that actually liked Sonic 360? If so, then it's fairly obvious that you would love lair. Also obvious is that I should stay the fuck away from it.

I own all three systems, I have little reason to play Lair and pretend to like it just for Sony's sake.[/QUOTE]

I'm going to go ahead and call you a fucking moron for bringing that up since I don't know how many times you have, but it has been a lot. I'm allowed to like it, and there are WAY worse games out there that sell amazingly well, but I don't go attacking people for buying/enjoying them.

LAIR is a fantastic game, people just don't like not having the choice of controls, and the motion controls do work, and pretty well as a matter of fact.

Played through LAIR a second time and still enjoyed it.


The Wii kills your argument. It's not about people accepting them, more so that developers need to implement them correctly.
Click to expand...
It's more like people don't want to accept motion control with the PS3.
 
[quote name='millrat1030']I agree that the motion control takes a while to get used to, but I kinda enjoy it now. My problem with Lair is the lock on system, it's horrible. Why o why can't I lock on the dragon in front of me instead of the one to my left or right? The game has it's moments, but it's definitely not the "must have" ps3 game.[/QUOTE]
This is exactly the problem. I had no trouble controlling the dragon, and I went through flight training completely. Flying around was easy, and fun. It was the horrific lock-on that killed the game for me. No matter how much you like the game you have to admit the targeting system sucks ass.

It would be like me not admitting that DW: Gundam can get repetative.
 
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