The official Mariano Rivera is done and so are the Yankees forum

Its hard for most closers to be effective in a non save situation, but he's really struggling right now. I have to give him the benefit of the doubt, and unless he's hurt, I think he'll bounce back.

As for the Yankees, they're done. How can you enter the season with that much payroll and that little pitching? They literally have no pitching, none. If they plan to do anything this year, they'll have to move a guy like Hughes or Cano for pitching, which they won't, plus there isn't much on the market anyway.

The Sox could have the best pitching staff in baseball.
 
It's not even May yet. Plenty of time for them to bounce back. However, if things look the same (or worse) at the All-Star break, I would have to agree with you.
 
fuck that son

Go REDS!!!

reds.jpg
 
[quote name='theeipi']Finally, just as I prepare to leave NY, the Yankees finally officially are aweful.

Go Sox.[/QUOTE]
It's April.

They are far from finished.

We already have an MLB thread.

And no one cares about what you have to say anyway.




Oh, and fuck you and the Sox.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Its hard for most closers to be effective in a non save situation, but he's really struggling right now. I have to give him the benefit of the doubt, and unless he's hurt, I think he'll bounce back.

[/QUOTE]
He's fine, he's done this before at the beginning of the season. Plus he's hasn't had any consistent playing time.
[quote name='dafoomie']

As for the Yankees, they're done. How can you enter the season with that much payroll and that little pitching? They literally have no pitching, none. If they plan to do anything this year, they'll have to move a guy like Hughes or Cano for pitching, which they won't, plus there isn't much on the market anyway.

The Sox could have the best pitching staff in baseball.[/QUOTE]
The Sox have great starters and Papelbon but their middle-relief leaves a lot to be desired.

And the Yankees have more than enough pitching. Their bullpen is good but overworked right now. If their starters can refrain from getting injured then they should be more than capable in that department. Oh, and they'll be getting Clemens in a few months.

Maybe.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Its hard for most closers to be effective in a non save situation, but he's really struggling right now. I have to give him the benefit of the doubt, and unless he's hurt, I think he'll bounce back.

As for the Yankees, they're done. How can you enter the season with that much payroll and that little pitching? They literally have no pitching, none. If they plan to do anything this year, they'll have to move a guy like Hughes or Cano for pitching, which they won't, plus there isn't much on the market anyway.

The Sox could have the best pitching staff in baseball.[/quote]You Red Sox fans label the Yankees "done" every April. Then you watch them play in October while you're sitting at home, like last year. And they entered the season thinking Mussina and Wang would be healthy, and unexpected injuries have halted that. They came into the year with Pavano, Mussina, Wang, Pettite, Kei Igawa, that's hardly "no pitching". It's not their fault that Pavano came up with another injury, and Moose and Wang tweaked their hamstrings.
 
It's alittle early. I love the Sox but this same shit happended last year and the Yanks made the playoffs. They did equally as bad last year, hell, most of the first half of the season the Yanks sucked last year.
 
Just wait...in two weeks, Clemens'll be making his debut and that'll springboard them back into at least wild-card contention by July.

They're the fuckin' Yankees. There's no Neve Campbell to put a bullet between their eyes "Just to be sure." The rest of us the AL East and wild-card contenders can only watch in horror as they buy their way right back into it.
 
The people who go "it's only April" obviously are not baseball fans and have no fucking clue what's going on. Come September when the teams are fighting for the playoff seats and are only up or down by a couble games then you will realize that the games from April matter.

And how many Red Sox / Yankee games have the Yankees won? Oh yeah... none... I love it.

4-28-07YankeesSuck.jpg
 
[quote name='David85']The people who go "it's only April" obviously are not baseball fans and have no fucking clue what's going on.[/quote]Every game counts in the standings, but to completely dismiss the Yankees after 2 series against the Red Sox is ridiculous. Funny, Rivera looked pretty decent yesterday. For a "done" team, the Yankees sure played pretty well yesterday, with Igawa shutting down the Red Sox.

This time last year, the Tigers swept the Twins in Detroit, by a combined score of 33-1. By the end of the season, those games didn't mean much, did they? Surely, Tigers fans were doing the same thing Red Sox fans are doing right now, talking all their "Twins are dead, it's over for them!" jive, and look what happened.
 
the yankees always get off to slow starts, but they always end up in first, eh
you know that rivera will turn it around, hes just in a little phunk right now.

high payroll ftw
 
[quote name='David85']The people who go "it's only April" obviously are not baseball fans and have no fucking clue what's going on. Come September when the teams are fighting for the playoff seats and are only up or down by a couble games then you will realize that the games from April matter.

And how many Red Sox / Yankee games have the Yankees won? Oh yeah... none... I love it.
[/quote]

nobody is saying that the games in april DONT matter, we are saying that it is too early for comments such as "The yanks and MO are done". yes the games in april are important, but just because the yanks have been sliding doesnt mean they suck.
 
You know whats funny is how so many people still complain about the Yankees payroll. I guess its not that funny until you realize its Red Sox fans who have the 2nd highest payroll >_> 100+ million on Dice K but i guess thats not that much is it.

The yankees are hurt right now but if there is any time to be hurt, then this is the best time. That is why people say that april games dont matter.

When the Yankees swept the Red Sox in 5 games last year, yes that did matter. Not only was it too late for the red sox to come back from that, but they didnt even make it into 2nd place of the division.

So go ahead, make your silly threads(and please note this is a thread on the Off Topic forum, learn the difference) but its only going to make you look stupid when the yankees are back on stride...you know sorta like how david just did a few post earlier when he said the yankees havent won a game against the red sox the very day in which they do get a win.
 
Wow, that post sucked.

Oh, and let's not forget that the Yankees lost to the Tigers in the first round last year. Yeah, that amazing hitting lineup was held scoreless in over 20 consecutive innings. Pwned.
 
[quote name='omgu8myrice'] just because the yanks have been sliding doesnt mean they suck.[/QUOTE]


Umm... yeah it does.
 
[quote name='"david85"'] And how many Red Sox / Yankee games have the Yankees won? Oh yeah... none... I love it.[/quote]
And how many times are they going to face each other over the season?

Leave it to a Yankees fan to throw in the towel this early in the season.

Yankees will be fine. They'll bounce back and be a contender. I hate fair-weather fans. It's like they don't even watch baseball.

Go METS!

[quote name='"Ugamer_X"']Oh, and they'll be getting Clemens in a few months.[/quote]

I just want to bring this up... Who the hell died and made Clemens the Jesus of baseball?
 
While i was listening to the game earlier

"interestingly enough, the Yankees started the season 11-19 2 years ago and still went on to win the AL East Division."
 
Do that many baseball fans forget that the Yankees were 11-19 in the 2005 season? And we heard the same shit about Mariano 2 seasons ago when he blew back to back saves against Boston. The year before that we heard the same shit in the middle of the season when Mo blew 2 saves in a row. Ironically the past 3 years (when everyone keeps panicking that he was finished) he was just as dominant as he was in the 1996 season. Next year we will hear the same shit because most people have selective memory and only remember "what have you done for me lately?"

[quote name='David85']The people who go "it's only April" obviously are not baseball fans and have no fucking clue what's going on.[/quote]
That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard and you take it a step further by saying everyone has no clue what's going on. You do realize there are 140 more games this season and both teams play eachother what, 15 to 20 more times? You of all people (a Red Sox fan) should know that both teams have been so evenly matched the past 4 to 5 years that anything can happen and a 6.5 game lead means shit. Both teams are capable of winning 5 of 6 games (Yanks swept Boston at Fenway 5 games in a row last season as I recall).
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']Milwaukee Brewers are 15-8. According to David85, they are shoe-ins to go to the World Series.[/quote]

lol, and fuck Boston
 
[quote name='David85']The people who go "it's only April" obviously are not baseball fans and have no fucking clue what's going on.[/quote]
That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard and you take it a step further by saying everyone has no clue what's going on. You do realize there are 140 more games this season and both teams play eachother what, 15 to 20 more times?
 
[quote name='Warlock TCK']And how many times are they going to face each other over the season?
[/QUOTE]

18, and the Red Sox have won 5 of them and it's "only" April.
 
[quote name='Weedy649']You know whats funny is how so many people still complain about the Yankees payroll. I guess its not that funny until you realize its Red Sox fans who have the 2nd highest payroll >_> 100+ million on Dice K but i guess thats not that much is it.[/QUOTE]
Its easy for other teams to point the finger at Boston for their payroll. But, most of you aren't in the same division as the Yankees, you don't have to compete with them. We do.

Any time the Sox take 5 out of 6 against the Yankees, its a big deal. Its too early to count the Yankees out, but their pitching staff is a mess even when healthy. Getting Clemens won't fix that alone. Does anyone actually think Pavano is going to pitch even half decently? Their bullpen outside of Rivera is a mess, too. Rivera will be fine as long as he's not hurt.

Yankees fans have to consider the pitching that they went into the season with a disgrace. They have all the resources in the world, and they got this? Brian Cashman does not intend to win the World Series this year if this is the pitching staff he put together. It was him that didn't want to spend the money on Matsuzaka, it was him that didn't want to spend the money on Zito or Schmidt. His solution is Jeff Karstens? That said, they still have the best offense in baseball, but that doesn't win in the playoffs, and it won't carry this pitching staff.

I fully expect the Yankees to be in it, but they won't make the playoffs with their pitching as is. They need to make some moves, spend some money or trade guys like Hughes, which are things that Cashman won't do. Who can they get besides Clemens anyway?


As for the Sox... They might have the best pitching in baseball. Schilling, Beckett, Matsuzaka, Wakefield, Lester (in a week or two). Papelbon, Okajima, Timlin, Donnelly, Romero, Pineiro, Snyder, Tavarez in the bullpen. Delcarmen, Hansen in AAA. Very solid. Beckett looks dominant, and Okajima has emerged as the 8th inning guy.
 
The Yanks always seem to battle back close to October. They always buy their way into the playoffs.

I love to see them lose. I guess when the Yankees get attention for losing, they win in the long run because we can't stop talking about them.
 
The problem here is that it is easy to jump on Cashman after the fact that the injury bug has fallen on the Yankees' pitching staff. Before the season started and everyone was healthy, their rotation was solid and consisted of Mussina, Wang, and Pettite. It could be better, but how many teams in baseball can say they have 3 solid starters capable of 18 to 20 wins per season? They match up fairly well with Beckett (overrated IMO and has only won more than 10 games in a season twice in his career), Schilling, Wakefield, and Matsuzaka (unproven). The same could be said of the Red Sox rotation (or any other baseball team for that matter) if 2 of their top 3 starters were injured.

P.S. I never understood how people can hate the Yankees or the Red Sox. As a baseball fan, this is the greatest rivalry in all of sports. Because of them, I would give up video games if it meant I couldn't watch baseball. It has competition, comedy (especially when Pedro was with Boston though Manny fills his shoes quite well), drama (especially when Pedro was with Boston), disgust (Pedro again with the Don Zimmer incident), late game heroics, and fear (the dread that overwhelms me when Big Papi comes to the plate in a close game, late inning situation), it has it all.
 
[quote name='Kendro']The problem here is that it is easy to jump on Cashman after the fact that the injury bug has fallen on the Yankees' pitching staff. Before the season started and everyone was healthy, their rotation was solid and consisted of Mussina, Wang, and Pettite. It could be better, but how many teams in baseball can say they have 3 solid starters capable of 18 to 20 wins per season? They match up fairly well with Beckett (overrated IMO and has only won more than 10 games in a season twice in his career), Schilling, Wakefield, and Matsuzaka (unproven). The same could be said of the Red Sox rotation (or any other baseball team for that matter) if 2 of their top 3 starters were injured.[/QUOTE]
You've kind of hit the issue right on the head, the Yankees have 3 pitchers. Mussina and Pettitte are solid, but aren't dominant and are starting to show their age. Wang is the real deal. The rest of the rotation, Pavano, Karstens, Igawa, is a joke.

As for Beckett, he was overrated in the past because of his stuff, but he didn't know how to pitch. He would try to overpower guys when he got into trouble and not pitch... He's learned to pitch, he's a completely different guy now. I watched him get out of a big jam by striking out a guy with a changeup, and not the 91mph changeup he used to throw, a real changeup. Yes its April, but 5-0 with a 2.48 ERA isn't overrated, its getting the job done. Plus, a huge problem for Beckett last year was home runs, he's only given up one this year in 32+ innings.
 
Well, while I see them clawing back into the race like the remnants of the Terminator inching towards Sarah Connor, the difference this year is that their starting pitching is a legitimate liability. So if Clemens doesn't decide to swoop down and 'save the day' (seriously, I often wonder if that megalomaniac isn't just waiting for the perfect moment to maximize his herodom) sooner than later, not to mention at all, then the likelihood that they won't quite get 'all the way back' ramps up considerably.

They're lucky that, for the most part, the AL seems to be all clustered up in the 'respectable-pretty good' range.
 
I am a huge Red Sox fan, but I know that the Yankees aren't done. Riveria has never had the same kind of stuff against the Sox that he had has against everyone else. The Sox have always gotten to him a few times every year. The Yanks are making a hole for themselves right now, it was a ton of injuries that made the Sox fall last year, that would need to happen again this year if the Yanks are to climb the standings. Time will tell, but since Manny hasn't started yet, I like the Sox and I think as the season goes on Dice-K is going to be tougher (while Okajima will be more hittable), and I think the Yankees are in a lot of trouble if they don't start winning in the next few weeks. Baseball is a game of streaks, but a long enough losing streak will kill anyone. Unless your the Twins or the A's in the second half of the season.
 
[quote name='Kendro']
P.S. I never understood how people can hate the Yankees or the Red Sox. As a baseball fan, this is the greatest rivalry in all of sports. Because of them, I would give up video games if it meant I couldn't watch baseball. It has competition, comedy (especially when Pedro was with Boston though Manny fills his shoes quite well), drama (especially when Pedro was with Boston), disgust (Pedro again with the Don Zimmer incident), late game heroics, and fear (the dread that overwhelms me when Big Papi comes to the plate in a close game, late inning situation), it has it all.[/quote]Maybe it's because people are sick of the nonstop media attention both teams get? Or the fact that their combined payrolls are more than Reds, Diamondbacks, Indians, Royals, Devil Rays, Brewers, Pirates, and Rockies combined?
 
some interesting points...but here is my opinions and some facts

the red sox payroll is still about $50 million less then the yanks

rivera may not be done, but imo he is done as a shut down closer...he is old, and no closers dominate like he has for that long, he is still above avg, but he has 3 blown saves, and only 1 of them is vs the sox..othe teams are hitting him...and wasn't varitek on 2b in his first save...we aren't talking about a couple of blown saves in the first week, we are talking about a month of the season...still a solid closer, but far from dominate shut down closer that he was.

I don't get the yanks fans and beat writters belief that clemans is auto coming to the yanks...last i checked the red sox need a 5th starter and they have the funds to pay him...yes andy petite, his best friend is on the yanks...the red sox can offer him being the best pitcher in the history of the redsox...and last i checked, clemans said if he was to play he is going to the team that has the best chaces to win the world series..he is making his mind up in about 2 wks...now unless the yanks go on a major run, they would in theory be least likely to win the world series by the standards that clemans set...and most importantly, there is no proof that he will be as successful in the al east as he is in the weak hitting nl central...

as for the red sox collapsing last year...going into that 5 game series the sox I believe were in first...they started joe johnson a career 30 game or so below .500 pitcher...the majority of the staff was hurt, varitek the best game calling catcher in the game was hurt and that impacted the young pitchers, clement was hurt, lester had cancer, wakefield was hurt...and if not in that series over the next couple of weeks, manny, trot nixon, loretta, and alex gonzales spent at least a short stint on the dl

as for the yanks poor start 2 years ago...it was there offense, which everyone knew would hit, that was struggling...this year it is there pitching staff. Yes you can blame it on injuries, but igawa was about a .500 pitcher in japan, so why would they expect him to dominate here. mussina is another year older, and besides last year, he hasn't delivered what was expected of him in NY...petitie is no youngster either and has spend a lot of time on the dl over the past couple years, so in theory he will again this year...wang is a solid young pitcher, but IMO he isn't an ace...he had great numbers last year, but sinker ball pitchers are very up and down from year to year, take a look at derek lowes career number for proof. The yanks do have the best offense in baseball there is no arguing that, and rivera is still an above avg closer, but to dismiss the sox bullpen so easily as some have done is failing to look closely at the yanks bullpen. Oh by the way in approx 9.3 ip this weekend, the sox bullpen allowed 1 run

can the yanks turn it around and win the al east, yes they have the offensive power to kill mediocre pitching...is it possible the yanks finish in 3rd or 4th in the al east, without a doubt as well..besides there pitching woes, the reason the sox didn't sign damon is the length of the contract..yes he was the best leadoff hitter in the game when he left boston and last year..but the way he throws his body around in the of and the nagging injuires he has aquired over the years is going to take away the most important part of his game, speed. Bobby abreau had a great year for the yanks last year, but without a doubt he overachived.

As for the blame of injuires to the pitching staff..the yanks have played 23 or so games..that is just over 4 starts per pitcher ..wang has made 2 (0 - 2 5.84) and mussina has made 2(0-1 9.00 era and you can't blame the groin injury on the first game)..pavano, another .500 pitcher who had 1 great season in florida that made him a .500 pitcher has 2 starts and was 1 - 0 4.76era. Yank fans can say the bullpen has been overused, but in most of there top pitchers starts listed above, they are going about 5 or 6ip, part of that is they aren't pitching great, the other part is that joe torre is a horrible in game manager...he is great at handling big star personalities, but in game decisions he has always been poor at. Yes he has a great winning %, but he has fielded some of the best players every year since he started coachin in NY. He wasn't that great of a manager in st louis, and IMO nothing has changed. He has killed the bullpen the last couple years, ever since mazzone and stotlemyer left...there have been rumors that mazzone, zimmer, stollemyer and randolph helped torre from going to the pen so soon...he doesn't have that patience in his coaching staff anymore, and he has killed several arms due to overuse (quatril, gordon, stuartz etc..)
 
The general public tends to quickly jump on the Yankees and, to a lesser extent, Boston for a stretch of poor play.. but given the gigantic payroll, they really shouldn't have stretches like the Yanks are in the midst of. Compare their $195mil? salary with Cleveland's $60mil? payroll... now comapre their performance with Cleveland's so far.

When a team has the number one payroll year in and year out, when a team is one of a few that has any chance at some of the premier players year in and year out (due to their own drastic overpayment of some players), and when a team has had a habit of buying rather than building championship teams lately... people are going to be prone to throwing them to the dogs as soon as they start to skid.
 
The Yankees will make the playoffs. It's funny how everyone forgets the 5 game sweep last season - IN FENWAY - which should be proof enough to never count out the Yankees - especially in April. IF they get Clemens and Pettitte, Wang and Mussina all turn into 15-game winners with an ERA around 4 they will definitely make the playoffs. It's not so far-fetched.
 
the interesting thing about the yanks is, there were/are rumors that the teams goal going back to 2 years ago is to shrink the payroll to about 80mill or so by 2010, when they are allegedly moving into the new stadium. Besides damon, who got a long contract, but rather reasonable yearly fee, the yanks really haven't been a player in any of the major free agents. They have a lot of players contracts coming to an end over the next couple of years and it will be interesting to see if they continue to trim payroll. It was allegedly steinbrenners goal to have it around 80 mill payroll when he was supposed to turn the team over to his son in law (now former son in law and no longer getting the team). His son in law was overseeing the construction of the new stadium and they wanted the payroll done so there numbers were severely afffected by the cost of the stadium
 
[quote name='javeryh']The Yankees will make the playoffs. It's funny how everyone forgets the 5 game sweep last season - IN FENWAY - which should be proof enough to never count out the Yankees - especially in April. IF they get Clemens and Pettitte, Wang and Mussina all turn into 15-game winners with an ERA around 4 they will definitely make the playoffs. It's not so far-fetched.[/quote]

you yank fans keep on bringing up the 5 game sweep, but fail to mention how many injuires the sox had...a lot more then the yanks have right now...and there is no proof clemans is even going to pitch, much less for the yanks..last i checked the only team of the 3 that WOULDN'T allow clemans to go home when he wasn't pitching is the yanks...

yes all of what you said is possible, but at some point the age of your team will hurt them,and they won't bounce back like they have in the past...maybe it is this year, maybe next, maybe 3 years from now...but you are counting on 3 of the 4 pitchers listed, who are all in the upper 30's or older, and some with consistent stints on a yearly basis on the dl to be dominate.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']you yank fans keep on bringing up the 5 game sweep, but fail to mention how many injuires the sox had...a lot more then the yanks have right now[/quote]Who exactly was injured for the Red Sox in that 5 game series? Schilling, Beckett, Wells, Lester, and Jason Johnson started those 5 games, and the only significant Red Sox position player missing in those games was Jason Varitek. Meanwhile, in the 2 Yankee-Sox series this year, Andy Pettite has started 2 games, Jeff Karstens has started 2 games, and Chase Wright and Chien Ming Wang have started the other. Doesn't exactly sound like last years Red Sox had "a lot more injuries".
 
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