The sad state of science education...
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lord_ebonstone
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[quote name='pittpizza']
(1) Do you guys have a problem with ID being taught in ANY class? Perhaps a "Survey of Western Religions" class?[/quote]
Intellectually, absolutely, assuming ID is actively being taught (insofar as a teacher attempting to convince students that ID is true and valid). ID is intellectually dishonest.
In legal terms my opinion is that ID should not be actively taught in any public school because it is a violation of SoC&S.
Now, I don't have a problem with public schools offering survey courses in religion and happening to mention ID, as long as these courses do not actually advocate any specific belief system over another (be it religion or a lack thereof). However, I believe it would be a very difficult line to walk, and the potential for abuse is probably high enough to dissuade me from actually seeking to get these kind of classes in public schools.
In private schools, anything goes.
From a legal standpoint I'd have to say it's a violation of SoC&S if the group is either officially recognized by the school, or is allowed to advertise, or it is especially flamboyant in its displays of religious zeal. Any of these cases suggest an act of condoning of the religion in question by the school, which is a violation, as it implicitly condemns any religion that a group doesn't exist for.
As long as the group is not officially recognized, and as long as it's not having revivals in the lunch room, there is no violation and the kids should be left alone.
[quote name='Koggit']Faith, in all forms, is detrimental to the progression of science. In a science class, this should be taught.[/QUOTE]
Assuming this was taught in a public school, it would be as much as violation of SoC&S as teaching ID would be.
(1) Do you guys have a problem with ID being taught in ANY class? Perhaps a "Survey of Western Religions" class?[/quote]
Intellectually, absolutely, assuming ID is actively being taught (insofar as a teacher attempting to convince students that ID is true and valid). ID is intellectually dishonest.
In legal terms my opinion is that ID should not be actively taught in any public school because it is a violation of SoC&S.
Now, I don't have a problem with public schools offering survey courses in religion and happening to mention ID, as long as these courses do not actually advocate any specific belief system over another (be it religion or a lack thereof). However, I believe it would be a very difficult line to walk, and the potential for abuse is probably high enough to dissuade me from actually seeking to get these kind of classes in public schools.
Teaching with the intent of convincing students that ID is true and valid is if it's done in a public school. Mentioning/discussing it in a Current Events class or a survey course in Relgion is not, again as long as the teacher doesn't push students to actually believe it.
In private schools, anything goes.
Depends totally on the circumstances. If a teacher or principal or something presents the moment of silence as rememberance for those who have/who currently serve our country, then it's fine. If there's any religious undertone, it's not fine. If it's left ambiguous, it's dangerously close to a violation but I don't think you could make a case for it. After all, moments of silence don't necessarily sell one religion over another.
Intellectually I have no problem with it as long as they don't aggressively push it.
From a legal standpoint I'd have to say it's a violation of SoC&S if the group is either officially recognized by the school, or is allowed to advertise, or it is especially flamboyant in its displays of religious zeal. Any of these cases suggest an act of condoning of the religion in question by the school, which is a violation, as it implicitly condemns any religion that a group doesn't exist for.
As long as the group is not officially recognized, and as long as it's not having revivals in the lunch room, there is no violation and the kids should be left alone.
[quote name='Koggit']Faith, in all forms, is detrimental to the progression of science. In a science class, this should be taught.[/QUOTE]
Assuming this was taught in a public school, it would be as much as violation of SoC&S as teaching ID would be.
pittpizza
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Interesting responses Lord Ebonstone, it pretty much mirrors what some others have said.
The problem with these issues is that they run contrary to the Excessive Entanglement rule. This rule was espoused in the US Supreme Court Case Lemon v. Kurtzman. This case challenged a PA law that allowed government funds to be used to pay parochial school teachers. There, the court used a three prong test to see if something violated the SoC&S.
1. The law must have a secular purpose.
2. The law must neither advance nor inhibit religion.
3. The law must not create excessive entanglement between the government and religion.
Where a "Survey of Religion" class might run afoul of the third prong is when it must be monitored to make sure that the teacher is not violating the first or second prong. You could probably find a better explanation on google or wiki but this is the basic gist of it.
This excessive entanglement issue is why most schools just cover thier ass and don't offer these types of courses, it is safer from a policy standpoint.
The problem with these issues is that they run contrary to the Excessive Entanglement rule. This rule was espoused in the US Supreme Court Case Lemon v. Kurtzman. This case challenged a PA law that allowed government funds to be used to pay parochial school teachers. There, the court used a three prong test to see if something violated the SoC&S.
1. The law must have a secular purpose.
2. The law must neither advance nor inhibit religion.
3. The law must not create excessive entanglement between the government and religion.
Where a "Survey of Religion" class might run afoul of the third prong is when it must be monitored to make sure that the teacher is not violating the first or second prong. You could probably find a better explanation on google or wiki but this is the basic gist of it.
This excessive entanglement issue is why most schools just cover thier ass and don't offer these types of courses, it is safer from a policy standpoint.
StealthNinjaScyther
CAGiversary!
That Nova program on the Dover case is now available to watch online. I highly recommend it.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html
bread's done