The "stimulus" bill folly

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http://www.americanissuesproject.or...e/2009/05/14/was-the-stimulus-irrelevant.aspx

Was the Stimulus Irrelevant?
By: Edward Morrissey

In early January, a joint paper [PDF file] by Dr. Christine Romer, then the nominee to chair the Presidential Council of Economic Advisers, and Jared Bernstein from Joe Biden's advisory team painted a bleak view of a world without the off-budget stimulus plan. This paper drove the administration's agenda on the stimulus bill and helped formulate the calculus that gave a much higher priority to public-works projects as opposed to tax cuts and business incentives. Failure to act, Romer and Bernstein warned, could have dire consequences (page 5):

The U.S. economy has already lost nearly 2.6 million jobs since the business cycle peak in December 2007. In the absence of stimulus, the economy could lose another 3 to 4 million more. Thus, we are working to counter a potential total job loss of at least 5 million. As Figure 1 shows, even with the large prototypical package, the unemployment rate in 2010Q4 is predicted to be approximately 7.0 percent, which is well below the approximately 8.8 percent that would result in the absence of a plan.

Sounds dire, doesn't it? Unemployment could hit 8.8 percent if Congress didn't start throwing money away immediately, and five million jobs could disappear. In fact, Figure 1 details the challenge better than the text does:

figure1.png


In February, the Obama administration demanded immediate action on the economy from Congress. Nancy Pelosi took charge of building a stimulus bill that wound up spending $787 billion dollars and shoving it through an offended House Republican caucus, while Harry Reid convinced three GOP Senators that the country would tumble into an economic abyss without it. The final bill passed in mid-February, intended to stave off the doomsday scenarios spun by Barack Obama's team of economic advisers.

After the passage of the bill authorizing the off-budget spending of almost $800 billion, one might have thought that the crisis represented by the light-blue arc would be avoided. Guess again. The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that unemployment in April had risen to a peak of 8.9 percent, more than the doomsday scenario laid out by Romer and Bernstein in their January paper. In fact, March had exceeded the recovery-plan curve and the non-recovery plan curve, too, as this revised graph clearly shows:

figure2.png


This could have been worse, of course. The unemployment figures showed a net job loss of 539,000 in April, better than the adjusted loss in March of almost 700,000 jobs. However, many media outlets missed the fact that 611,000 private-sector jobs got lost in April. Massive government hiring lowered the overall figure, but 66,000 of the 72,000 new government hires came with the Census Bureau – temporary jobs for next year's decennial survey.

Not only did the stimulus plan not work, the unemployment actually rose faster with the “recovery plan” in place than the Obama administration predicted unemployment would rise without it.

Obama backers would say that the administration always predicted more job growth in the second and third year of the plan. Indeed, on page 8, the authors wrote:

The different components of the stimulus package also differ in terms of the timing of the jobs they will create, and therefore serve different purposes in terms of cushioning the downturn and fostering recovery. Because it takes time to carry out new spending programs authorized by legislation, we expect the jobs created by spending on infrastructure, education, health, and energy to be concentrated in 2010 and 2011. At the other extreme are funds to protect the most vulnerable, which are generally spent promptly, and tax incentives for businesses to invest quickly. State fiscal relief and broad-based tax cuts fall in between: funds for these programs can be disbursed quickly, but there can be a delay before the main response of spending.

Return, though, to the graph created by Romer and Bernstein. They clearly predicted that the main explosion of unemployment would come this year, tapering off into 2010 and going lower in 2011 whether or not the stimulus bill passed. The issue has been how high would unemployment initially get before a recovery would start creating jobs, and how fast would jobs get created. The graph shows that their primary purpose in pushing the stimulus was to keep unemployment from peaking above eight percent.

We spent almost $800 billion to keep that bubble low, and the stimulus failed completely at its task.

Note that in the graph, the two lines meet in 2014, meaning that the American economy would have recovered with or without the stimulus plan and that unemployment would return to five percent. Unfortunately, having spent the $787 billion, we have massive debt to repay when those lines meet, debt that we incurred in a failed policy of irresponsible spending when we should have been encouraging capital investment in private enterprise, the real engine of job creation. Even if we do return to 95 percent employment, each worker will carry the burden of debt from Romer, Bernstein, and Obama – a burden that paid no dividends but will encumber us for generations.

We only wish that the stimulus bill was as irrelevant as it was useless.

-----------------

Okay, will the folks who demanded this huge burden on our children admit yet that it was a total and complete waste?
 
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person 100: foo is false!
elprincipe: finally, irrefutable proof that foo is false. told you guys.




people are weird..
 
This particular stimulus is useless for several reasons:

1) Its not nearly enough
2) Borrowing or printing money ruins it. You're supposed to take the money from the rich.
3) None of the underlying problems have been fixed.
 
[quote name='Koggit']person's 1 through 99: foo is true!
person 100: foo is false!
elprincipe: finally, irrefutable proof that foo is false. told you guys.




people are weird..[/QUOTE]

That's nice. Are you going to address the facts at all?
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']This particular stimulus is useless for several reasons:

1) Its not nearly enough
2) Borrowing or printing money ruins it. You're supposed to take the money from the rich.
3) None of the underlying problems have been fixed.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure what you mean by the fist one(we should have spent more? or we would need to spend so much a bailout was futile in the first place).
But I defiantly agree with the last 2
 
Government is, at best, a hindrance on the economy and, at worst, a siphonous burden with it's power to redistribute wealth. The real impetus of the economy are individual people who create businesses, create products, and create jobs. Government can only create things at the expense of wealth already created by others. Those that believe otherwise have never had the life the experience to understand this and think the underlying problems are "poverty" or other nebulous, feel-good concepts and causes.

I love hearing the leftist response that the stimulus wasn't big enough, without ever stopping to think of who got stimulated. It wasn't the little guys, it was all those institutions you hate and those you like to call "big business". Maybe they're right, maybe all those banks should have gotten more free government loan money to get rid of all their toxic assets. Most of it didn't go to help the common man like you want to believe.

All you non-tax-paying leftists rejoice! You will eventually drag us down with you until there is nothing left to take. Then where will you get your bread and cheese? You know they don't grow on trees.
 
I agree with bmull. The stimulus was never going to work no matter the amount.

But bmull, I still pay taxes and so do all my fellow leftists, socialists, communist/facists. And you're still a fucking retard.

And I love to see how conservatives are pinning this entire thing on Obama. The bailouts and all that crap got started during the election and you have to admit that part of the blame lays with Bush and his boys. But that would mean that both Dems and Repubs are responsible and that might blow a conservatives brain.

Yeah, I said it. Both sides of the aisle fucked this one up big and we'll ALL be paying for it. Then again, assholes like bmull think they're the only ones that pay taxes and ,therefore, they're the only ones that get to bitch about anything. All I can say, bmull, is pick up a gun and serve your country before you open your fucking mouth again. Or is it just commie pinkos like me that have actually served in the military?
 
Everybody understands that our government is mostly guessing, right?

If the government tells us the plain truth, it will cause a Panic and be self-fulfilling.

If the government says the mission is accomplished or the problem is solved, people will continue slowly marching into the sea.

Go to work. Try to get yourself out of debt. Keep rotating a few weeks of food through your home. Try to get healthy.
 
i dont mind a VAT tax, if it replaces or significantly reduces the income tax. but not both. (ie people make under $250k dont pay income but pay VAT, people making over 250k pay both. or something like that)
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2009-05-26-irs-tax-revenue-down_N.htm

Do you have a better suggestion?
With unemployment rising, we can't expect people to pay income tax.
We certainly can't stop pissing money in foreign countries.
We can't take a hard look at "entitlement" programs.
Hyperinflation is still years away.[/QUOTE]

I'd say hyperinflation is months away with the way the Government's spending money right now. You can definitely look at all those things, but they won't because the people in power want to keep the welfare state alive and well.

I don't have a problem with a national sales tax (a tax on a good at retail) as I do a VAT tax (a tax on every part of the production process)


i dont mind a VAT tax, if it replaces or significantly reduces the income tax.
You and I both know that won't happen.
 
Considering how economists and historians are still arguing over whether government fiscal policy helped ease or prolong the great depression, it's a little early for a call on the actions of the current administration.
Those graphs only show how poor the governments projections for unemployment were/are. I don't see how unemployment doesn't go past 10% without some major accounting shuffling.
 
[quote name='vherub']Considering how economists and historians are still arguing over whether government fiscal policy helped ease or prolong the great depression, it's a little early for a call on the actions of the current administration.
Those graphs only show how poor the governments projections for unemployment were/are. I don't see how unemployment doesn't go past 10% without some major accounting shuffling.[/QUOTE]

I think it's already past 10%, or it's really, really close.

As for calling for the heads of administration officials being early, people were calling for Bush's head before he took office in 2001.
 
[quote name='vherub']Considering how economists and historians are still arguing over whether government fiscal policy helped ease or prolong the great depression, it's a little early for a call on the actions of the current administration.
Those graphs only show how poor the governments projections for unemployment were/are. I don't see how unemployment doesn't go past 10% without some major accounting shuffling.[/QUOTE]

I know it's early, but this is a big deal. It's quite plain that the "stimulus" bill has done nothing of the sort, as those of us sane enough would have told you before it was passed. Nobody wants to see this fail, but unfortunately it was bound to happen because the plan was a stupid plan. Together with other insane fiscal policies, many of them instituted under Bush and Obama, we are well on our way to either (a) defaulting on our debt; or (b) having our children and grandchildren be virtual slaves of the Chinese to pay for our idiocy of today.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']I think it's already past 10%, or it's really, really close.[/QUOTE]

The government hasn't measure unemployment in any meaningful way for decades.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']The government hasn't measure unemployment in any meaningful way for decades.[/QUOTE]

Was I asking for a Government measurement? Somebody measures it and everyone (who isn't in the administration's pocket) reports it.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Do you have a better suggestion?[/QUOTE]

How about cutting some current programs? If I was out of money I wouldn't just get another credit card to make things better. I would stop spending so much money which is what the government and California should do. Why does the government always go against common sense?!?!?

A VAT would be ok if they lowered other taxes but we all know it would just be an addition to the current taxes.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']Was I asking for a Government measurement? Somebody measures it and everyone (who isn't in the administration's pocket) reports it.[/QUOTE]

"Real" unemployment is double to triple what the government is reporting. Uber socialist mykevermin had a good thread about it.

If people realize current unemployment is worse than during the Great Depression, there might be a panic.

People might learn how to change their oil, grow gardens, turn off their cell phones or other crazy shit that isn't compatible with a consumerism-centered economy.
 
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