There needs to be a worse punishment than death

CocheseUGA

CocheseUGA

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Why can't we punish people in the same manner they committed their crime? Why do I ask this?

http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4732090

This happened right down the street where I was working at the time. Woman worked at Lowes, and decided to leave the child in the car because she couldn't find childcare. Now, she parked all the way towards the street, so no one would see the child in the car (like if she had parked normally).

Now, why does this make me so upset? Notice I said 'at the time.' I stopped working to be a full-time dad.

These are my girls:
6-19-06021.jpg


They are the pride of my life. I'd do anything for them (they are 16w, BTW). Now, the last week or so it has been scorching here. I went to JoAnns today for photo storage boxes, and saw the same thing I've seen for the last week: After I get the stroller out, and the one who is behind my seat into the stroller, I shut my door and hurry my ass around to the other side. Through the 1/4 window, I see my other daughter. It is at this point that just wretches my heart and stomach that someone could know that their child will literally cook in a car that tempatures could exceed 150F. Hell, I feel bad for the 45 seconds after I shut off the car until I get my second daughter out of the car.

We need to have penalties that people are actually afraid of again. People aren't afraid of dying if it means not spending 40 years in jail. How about locking these people up in the same conditions and let them fucking cook. I could go on about other crimes like sexually assaulting a child, but I'll save that for another time. We need to start making examples out of people. You choose to willing leave a child in a baking car, I say you lose your constitutional rights to do anything other than to die just the same way you subjected them to.

/rant.
 
Dude, I honestly do not see what you're saying as a rant at all. You have a very valid point. And I agree with you that the punishment should fit the crime. fuck lethal injection. Its no more than just permanently putting someone to sleep. I'm sorry, they should feel nothing but pain, period. Think of the scene in the Green Mile where the spong wasn't soaked in water, and you're still far from how I feel about it. As for coporal punishment, they need to bring it back to for the useless pukes that are known as teenagers. They get off with little more than a slap on the wrist.

And I commend you for wanting to be a full time dad.
 
Never gunna happen. Well, not for a long time.

Something fucking huge is going to have to happen.

The primitive protective streak in me full heartedly agrees with your sentiment, but the more enlightened part of me just cant.

Don't get me wrong, if someone raped my GF and I found them... But really, if we allow our government to torture criminals, we potentially allow them to torture the innocent. Eye for an eye really doesn't make us much better than them.

Should there still be a death penalty? Yes, I think so. However, I believe its purpose should be just to get them out of the way, not to be overly cruel. Also, you shouldn't sit on death row for 20 years. I'd say you get like a year to make your peace and then you're done. Hell, maybe thats even too nice.
 
The average for someone to be exonerated after conviction and placement on death row is about 10 years. Shortening the time to execution, as so many suggest, will simply kill off many more innocent people.

Though I have no idea why this woman deserves execution anyway. Nowhere does it mention intentional harm, maybe stupidity, indifference etc., but it doesn't sound like she intended to kill the kids.
 
Not to be a super liberal here, but this isnt murder... this is stupidity. We need to up our education and lower child care services (Maybe funded by the state like public schools?)

We need to be pro-active.... not just fix something when it breaks.

This woman, was an idiot... and putting her to death is retarded.

You should have to have childcare training to legally have children or better schooling before they get pregnant. Idiot children are growing up to be idiot parents... From broken families to start more broken families.

We need to focus as a country and the poor need to be educated better. Instead of just pushing the issue aside while they drown in dirty coke and heroin.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']The average for someone to be exonerated after conviction and placement on death row is about 10 years. Shortening the time to execution, as so many suggest, will simply kill off many more innocent people.

Though I have no idea why this woman deserves execution anyway. Nowhere does it mention intentional harm, maybe stupidity, indifference etc., but it doesn't sound like she intended to kill the kids.[/QUOTE]

The big part of the story is this: she intentionally parked in an area where the child would not be seen left alone in the car. That's not in the story, but it's the truth. Like I said, I worked about a mile from where this happened. She didn't check on the child when she got back to the car (like it would have helped anyway). I don't care what you call it, if it wasn't intentional I don't care. And it didn't make a difference to that child, either.

If this was an isolated incident, it would be one thing. How many times have we heard about this? And in some instances, the mother only does about 4-6 months in jail and GETS HER OTHER KIDS BACK. WTHH? Reminds me of the woman in Chicago who killed 2 or 3 kids by rolling over and smothering them while she was asleep. Did this happen at the same time? Hell no, these were SEPERATE INSTANCES. DFACS are a joke in this country as well. People who blatantly abuse their kids go unpunished while in other instances parents who would never touch their child unlovingly get them taken away (was a couple on Montel once - medical condition, caused bruises).

Perhaps I'm just sick of parents not treating their children right period. Having two of my own has really opened my eyes, even though I despised these people beforehand. Bottom line is, someone needs to be made an example of...just once. Public flogging, stockades, something even if you don't beat them to death with their own fibulas. Putting people in jails (and us paying for them to get three squares and excercise and TV) isn't the answer for me anymore. Make them dig the grave as well.
 
You could argue that if shes that old and still that stupid, its too late to redeem her. :lol:

But yes, you are sounding super liberal. Another stupid person? Lets throw another tax funded program at them! Social services only get you so far. Hell, even thats debatable. What do you think people did 100 years ago without welfare? They either worked or starved. People don't want to work because the know the government will pick up the tab. Of course, if you're actually a hard working person and in need of serious aide, these programs are all tapped out by the lazy and incompotent that just milk the system.



[quote name='Mookyjooky']Not to be a super liberal here, but this isnt murder... this is stupidity. We need to up our education and lower child care services (Maybe funded by the state like public schools?)

We need to be pro-active.... not just fix something when it breaks.

This woman, was an idiot... and putting her to death is retarded.

You should have to have childcare training to legally have children or better schooling before they get pregnant. Idiot children are growing up to be idiot parents... From broken families to start more broken families.

We need to focus as a country and the poor need to be educated better. Instead of just pushing the issue aside while they drown in dirty coke and heroin.[/quote]
 
Westley: "To the pain," means the first thing you lose will be your feet below the ankles, then your hands at the wrists, next your nose.

Prince Humperdinck: And, then my tongue I suppose. I killed you too quickly the last time; a mistake I don't mean to duplicate tonight.

Westley: I wasn't finished. The next thing you lose will be your left eye, followed by the right . . .

Prince Humperdinck: And, then my ears, I understand. Let's get on with it.

Westley: Wrong! Your ears you keep, and I'll tell you why.
So that every shriek of every child at seeing your hideousness will be yours to cherish, every babe that weeps at your approach,
every woman who cries out: "Dear God, what is that thing?" will echo in your perfect ears. That is what "to the pain" means. It means I leave you in anguish, wallowing in freakish misery, forever.
 
I knew you were bl... I knew he was bluffing! :lol:

[quote name='JSweeney']Westley: "To the pain," means the first thing you lose will be your feet below the ankles, then your hands at the wrists, next your nose.

Prince Humperdinck: And, then my tongue I suppose. I killed you too quickly the last time; a mistake I don't mean to duplicate tonight.

Westley: I wasn't finished. The next thing you lose will be your left eye, followed by the right . . .

Prince Humperdinck: And, then my ears, I understand. Let's get on with it.

Westley: Wrong! Your ears you keep, and I'll tell you why.
So that every shriek of every child at seeing your hideousness will be yours to cherish, every babe that weeps at your approach,
every woman who cries out: "Dear God, what is that thing?" will echo in your perfect ears. That is what "to the pain" means. It means I leave you in anguish, wallowing in freakish misery, forever.[/quote]
 
Crap like this makes me sick to my stomach. I can't believe there are people in this world who are that irresponsible.
 
[quote name='JSweeney']Westley: "To the pain," means the first thing you lose will be your feet below the ankles, then your hands at the wrists, next your nose.

Prince Humperdinck: And, then my tongue I suppose. I killed you too quickly the last time; a mistake I don't mean to duplicate tonight.

Westley: I wasn't finished. The next thing you lose will be your left eye, followed by the right . . .

Prince Humperdinck: And, then my ears, I understand. Let's get on with it.

Westley: Wrong! Your ears you keep, and I'll tell you why.
So that every shriek of every child at seeing your hideousness will be yours to cherish, every babe that weeps at your approach,
every woman who cries out: "Dear God, what is that thing?" will echo in your perfect ears. That is what "to the pain" means. It means I leave you in anguish, wallowing in freakish misery, forever.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. I know if I did something accidentally to kill one of my two, the worst punishment I could think of would be to live a long and healthy life without seeing the people I love, and be forced to watch videos of them everyday until I died. But that's because I would feel remorse, guilt, and pain. I would argue people who leave their child in a car for nine hours in 85F+ heat (I believe that's what it was about that time) don't have the capacity to feel these things, at least not toward those they hurt. Nor do those who go on killing sprees (DC snipers, etc). Putting them in a comfy environment (living conditions, not commenting about purely being in jail) for the rest of their lives isn't the way to go. And lethal injection (watch, we'll have that taken away soon) isn't much better. Why do we have to make them comfortable and feel as little pain as possible? I don't buy the 'we're better people than them' argument, because people haven't stopped murdering others just because we have a death penalty. All you need are one or two examples to put into people's minds to think twice before they do something like that.
 
[quote name='Kayden']You could argue that if shes that old and still that stupid, its too late to redeem her. :lol:

But yes, you are sounding super liberal. Another stupid person? Lets throw another tax funded program at them! Social services only get you so far. Hell, even thats debatable. What do you think people did 100 years ago without welfare? They either worked or starved. People don't want to work because the know the government will pick up the tab. Of course, if you're actually a hard working person and in need of serious aide, these programs are all tapped out by the lazy and incompotent that just milk the system.[/quote]

The system is tapped out by the lazy and incompotent because the system is flawed, Obviously. Seriously though, you cant just let your country go to sink or swim.

I think its funny that the rich Republicans want to cut funding and cut taxes and cut everything else... but when the poor decide to riot... they shit themselves. By not trying to make the world a better place, you help it become the world you dont want it to be.

When there is no middle class, the poor will attack the upper class and you cant shoot them all at once.

If you give people a purpose in life, they'll be less likely to take advantage of the system.
 
[quote name='Kayden']Never gunna happen. Well, not for a long time.

Something fucking huge is going to have to happen.

The primitive protective streak in me full heartedly agrees with your sentiment, but the more enlightened part of me just cant.

Don't get me wrong, if someone raped my GF and I found them... But really, if we allow our government to torture criminals, we potentially allow them to torture the innocent. Eye for an eye really doesn't make us much better than them.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I sometimes find myself surprised at my vengeful streak, but I know that I would deserve every punishment I would get if I ever took the law into my own hands. The buck has got to stop somewhere.

But the fact of the matter is that as long as all it takes to have kids is sex, we're never going to get rid of negligent parents, period. Sad but true.

Oh, and your kids are adorable, OP.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']The big part of the story is this: she intentionally parked in an area where the child would not be seen left alone in the car. That's not in the story, but it's the truth. Like I said, I worked about a mile from where this happened. She didn't check on the child when she got back to the car (like it would have helped anyway). I don't care what you call it, if it wasn't intentional I don't care. And it didn't make a difference to that child, either.[/quote]

Intention doesn't make a difference to anyone who's dead. But it should make a difference to those who have to decide punishment.

If she intentionally tried to kill the kid that's one thing. Indifference, stupidity etc. is not the same as trying to kill someone.

Do you honestly think she had any awareness that she was about to be arrested for allowing her kid to die? Do you honestly think she thought out hte consequences if she did not realize what was about to happen?

If this was an isolated incident, it would be one thing. How many times have we heard about this? And in some instances, the mother only does about 4-6 months in jail and GETS HER OTHER KIDS BACK. WTHH? Reminds me of the woman in Chicago who killed 2 or 3 kids by rolling over and smothering them while she was asleep. Did this happen at the same time? Hell no, these were SEPERATE INSTANCES. DFACS are a joke in this country as well. People who blatantly abuse their kids go unpunished while in other instances parents who would never touch their child unlovingly get them taken away (was a couple on Montel once - medical condition, caused bruises).
Click to expand...

Do you think people sit there and think "hmm....... I'd learn to be a better parent if only they'd up the prison sentences." Did she think the kid was going to die when she did this? Did she think "hey, I saw a mom get 6 months for killing her kid, so I guess I'll kill mine too"?

Most of the cases I've seen were sentenced to at least multiple years anyway, though I've learned that watching the news paints a terribly innaccurate picture of how the courts run (sometimes much harsher, sometimes much more lenient).

All you need are one or two examples to put into people's minds to think twice before they do something like that.
Click to expand...

Barring a system like singapores of across the board extreme punishment (where spray painting a car gets you a brutal flogging), I see no reason why this would work.
 
The country is sinking because we're trying to save everyone. The government should be there to catch those that fall, however they're just sustaining those that don't even want to try- IE, those that deserve the least help.
Just look at Katrina. These people we're told to get the hell outta the way and refused. Then when they did get stuck in a shit storm, they just stood around with their hands out going 'gimme gimme!'

God Govenrment helps those who help themselves.

[quote name='Mookyjooky']The system is tapped out by the lazy and incompotent because the system is flawed, Obviously. Seriously though, you cant just let your country go to sink or swim.[/quote]
 
Here's where I have an issue with the 'intention' debate. She put her child in the car and drove to work. She exited the vehicle, parked away from other cars. She deliberately left her child in the car while she worked a nine hour shift.

There comes a point where you can't blame stupidity or a lack of common sense. Survival and protection of your offspring is something that is, or should be inherent in each and every one of us. I say, in an instance like this, that is premeditated. It's murder. Babies don't just go ten+ hours in a greenhouse of a car with no food and are ready to smile and coo at you when you get back.

I dunno, like I said I may be biased.
 
[quote name='camoor']I think life imprisonment is worse then the death penalty.[/quote]
On the economy.

How many billions are we spending to sustain millions of criminals that not only do not contribute to society, but actually try to destroy it? Life without parole is nothing but a death sentance on the economy. Who gives a fuck if they "learn their lesson"? They're not going to make much use of that in jail forever.

Rehabilitation is one thing. You do drugs once, sure, do 2-5 years and come back. You fuck up again and you're done. But you don't "accidentally" cut off your wife's head and then drive headlong into oncoming traffic. Even if you argue mental issues, the person is going to be locked up for life one way or the other. Why spend millions over the course of their life to drug them up to the point where their nearly catatonic? It doesn't give them anything resembling quality of life and society gets nothing back on their investment except a few quarts of drool. Maybe if experimentation was allowed on them... but I think you'd sooner gain approval to just outright kill them.
 
[quote name='Kayden']On the economy.

How many billions are we spending to sustain millions of criminals that not only do not contribute to society, but actually try to destroy it? Life without parole is nothing but a death sentance on the economy. Who gives a fuck if they "learn their lesson"? They're not going to make much use of that in jail forever.

Rehabilitation is one thing. You do drugs once, sure, do 2-5 years and come back. You fuck up again and you're done. But you don't "accidentally" cut off your wife's head and then drive headlong into oncoming traffic. Even if you argue mental issues, the person is going to be locked up for life one way or the other. Why spend millions over the course of their life to drug them up to the point where their nearly catatonic? It doesn't give them anything resembling quality of life and society gets nothing back on their investment except a few quarts of drool. Maybe if experimentation was allowed on them... but I think you'd sooner gain approval to just outright kill them.[/QUOTE]

The problem with that is that it's more expensive to give someone the death penalty than it is to give them life in prison.
 
I think that we should just stop with this pointless arguement and talk about self-sustaning humanity. Thats where we all get together in peace and harmony and figure out a way to havest our own babies to eat and survive off of. Then we would never go hungry again, and we can pick only the cutest for raising. But if they turned out ugly or dumb, you could eat them too I suppose.

What'ya say?
 
[quote name='trq']The problem with that is that it's more expensive to give someone the death penalty than it is to give them life in prison.[/quote]

$300 for a gun and $20 for a box of bullets. :lol:
 
[quote name='Kayden']On the economy.

How many billions are we spending to sustain millions of criminals that not only do not contribute to society, but actually try to destroy it? Life without parole is nothing but a death sentance on the economy. Who gives a fuck if they "learn their lesson"? They're not going to make much use of that in jail forever.

Rehabilitation is one thing. You do drugs once, sure, do 2-5 years and come back. You fuck up again and you're done. But you don't "accidentally" cut off your wife's head and then drive headlong into oncoming traffic. Even if you argue mental issues, the person is going to be locked up for life one way or the other. Why spend millions over the course of their life to drug them up to the point where their nearly catatonic? It doesn't give them anything resembling quality of life and society gets nothing back on their investment except a few quarts of drool. Maybe if experimentation was allowed on them... but I think you'd sooner gain approval to just outright kill them.[/QUOTE]

Yes, because the state should be able to kill its citizens when they pose no immediate threat and likely never will. Oh, wait, no they shouldn't.

Oh, and this thread sucks ass and is full of retards.
 
So you're saying it makes more sense to care for the catatonic? How can you really even say they're being killed? I'd hardly say being braindead in a chair your entire life constitutes living.

Also, way to keep the bar high and not engage in personal assaults. Very stimulating rebuttle.

[quote name='evanft']Yes, because the state should be able to kill its citizens when they pose no immediate threat and likely never will. Oh, wait, no they shouldn't.

Oh, and this thread sucks ass and is full of retards.[/quote]
 
[quote name='Kayden']So you're saying it makes more sense to care for the catatonic? How can you really even say they're being killed? I'd hardly say being braindead in a chair your entire life constitutes living.

Also, way to keep the bar high and not engage in personal assaults. Very stimulating rebuttle.[/QUOTE]

Coming from the worst poster on CAG (even worse than slidecage) I'm not surprised.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']Coming from the worst poster on CAG (even worse than slidecage) I'm not surprised.[/quote]

Wow. Thats almost an honor! I mean, there are some people that seriously try to piss everyone off. It just comes naturally, call it a gift. :roll:

[quote name='Mookyjooky']I'm stimulated... you're not? :D[/quote]

Thats because you have your hand down your pants. :lol:
 
[quote name='Kayden']Wow. Thats almost an honor! I mean, there are some people that seriously try to piss everyone off. It just comes naturally, call it a gift. :roll:

[/QUOTE]

Hope you didn't think I was referring to you.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']Hope you didn't think I was referring to you.[/quote]

Oh.... evanft :lol:

I have heard that directed at me though, so I never know. :lol:
 
[quote name='Kayden']Oh.... evanft :lol:

I have heard that directed at me though, so I never know. :lol:[/quote]

How could you put yourself below Evanft? :D
 
[quote name='Mookyjooky']How could you put yourself below Evanft? :D[/quote]

Anything is possible with enough vodka. :oops:
 
[quote name='Kayden']So you're saying it makes more sense to care for the catatonic? How can you really even say they're being killed? I'd hardly say being braindead in a chair your entire life constitutes living.[/QUOTE]

And what should the state the right to make that decision? How can we have a free society if the government can decide which lives are worthy of life, and which are not?

[quote name='CocheseUGA']Coming from the worst poster on CAG (even worse than slidecage) I'm not surprised.[/QUOTE]

Considering you're the one who started this clusterfuck of a thread, I don't put much stock in that.
 
[quote name='evanft']And what should the state the right to make that decision? How can we have a free society if the government can decide which lives are worthy of life, and which are not?[/quote]

Whos to say they should be forced to live in incontinence? Whos to say they should be held in psychiatric wards? Whos to say we have to pay millions to support people without functioning brains!?
 
[quote name='Kayden']Whos to say they should be forced to live in incontinence? [/QUOTE]

And you think the state has the right to make that decision?

[quote name='Kayden']Whos to say they should be held in psychiatric wards? [/QUOTE]

There's a massive difference between killing someone because the state has judged them to be unworthy of life, and putting someone in a psychiatric ward because they're mental faculties are such that they can't take of themselves, need treatment in order to stand trial, etc.

[quote name='Kayden']Whos to say we have to pay millions to support people without functioning brains!?[/QUOTE]

Actually, it doesn't really matter. Someone without a functioning brain isn't fit to stand trial, and therefore would never go to jail. Custody would likely go over to their family, leaving them to pay their medical bills.
 
[quote name='evanft']

Considering you're the one who started this clusterfuck of a thread, I don't put much stock in that.[/QUOTE]

That's ok, people just ignore you anyways.
 
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