To PAD and all other Bush voters...

pumbaa

pumbaa

CAGiversary!
I mean this in the most honest way possible. I am hopeful... I hope that you and your half of America were right. I really truly do. I hope you realize that 55,064,527 people disagreed with you. And I hope that your 58,589,935 people and out 55,064,527 people can become America once again. More than anything, I hope that we can look at ourselves as Americans once again. I hope that the side that has a president (and for that matter the house and senate) in office realizes that there is an ENTIRE other view on the matter... and that it matters. Although my vote went towards someone who is not the president of the united states... I am still an American, my view still counts, and I (we) should still be listened to. I wish America the best.

HAKUNA MATATA!

-pumbaa

EDIT: I edited this from the previous post of "I hope you can take what you did... see you in Iraq." I was written in a moment of anger. Above is my true intention, and I'd like your response to it.
 
Thanks for trying to reach out to us on the right, Pumbaa. Guess we'll wait and see.
 
This was the kind of post I was hoping people would make after this election.

Good for you.

CTL
 
So your first post was divisive, 'see what you did', now you're on the other side, 'Lets come together'? Way to flipflop.
Decide which way you *really* feel, then I'll come back to this thread.
 
Hey, dtcarson, Pumbaa already said he wrote his original post while he was still pissed off. He also says that it wasn't the message he wanted to convey. Pumbaa's edit seems sincere, so we should accept this as a genuine attempt to reach across.
 
[quote name='Pylis']Hey, dtcarson, Pumbaa already said he wrote his original post while he was still pissed off. He also says that it wasn't the message he wanted to convey. Pumbaa's edit seems sincere, so we should accept this as a genuine attempt to reach across.[/quote]

Thanks. I appreciate it.
 
So he needs to control his emotions before saying stuff. That's how fights start, and precisely why I posted my post.
Had you posted the edit, first, I would have said 'I can agree with that.' As it is, you're -1/+1, breaking even.

I'm listening to you. So far, the only reaching out I've seen [in the real world, and other forums] has been from Kerry, Bush, and Bush voters who praised Kerry's concession speech. Immediately after Bush's victory speech, I'm seeing and hearing more of the same. So you'll forgive me if after defending 12+ months of negativity and attacks on the President, I'm also a little 'pissed off'.
Which, I also hope, people will see is somewhat unusual for me.
 
In a couple days when the reality sets in and the gloating isn't as much fun...I will go about my normal day. Until then...

HAHAHAH! BUSH WON!
 
[quote name='dtcarson']So he needs to control his emotions before saying stuff. That's how fights start, and precisely why I posted my post.
Had you posted the edit, first, I would have said 'I can agree with that.' As it is, you're -1/+1, breaking even.

I'm listening to you. So far, the only reaching out I've seen [in the real world, and other forums] has been from Kerry, Bush, and Bush voters who praised Kerry's concession speech. Immediately after Bush's victory speech, I'm seeing and hearing more of the same. So you'll forgive me if after defending 12+ months of negativity and attacks on the President, I'm also a little 'pissed off'.
Which, I also hope, people will see is somewhat unusual for me.[/quote]

There was a lot of negativity on both sides before the results, so obviously the "losers" will still hang on to some of that. My hope is that in a few weeks... level heads will win out. My post (edited one...) was an effort to bring this out early. And as for that first post, this is my first election, and my passion was (and still is) damn high. My passion for Kerry has been replaced by hope for the future. Was the first post what I felt at the time? Yes. Do I stand by that? Yes. Does the current post reflect my feelings now? Yup.
 
While your post was well meaning, I honestly don't see how the next 4 years can be that much different than the past 4. This is good news for half of you, and a nightmare for the rest of us. Unless Bush completely turns around and does everything differently, I don't see him changing much of anything.

Remember, Nixon got reelected too (and during a disbuted war too).
 
Bush should be able to accomplish even more this term. He has a better stand in the senate and house as well as not having to care about getting reelected.
 
[quote name='pumbaa']I mean this in the most honest way possible. I am hopeful... I hope that you and your half of America were right. I really truly do. I hope you realize that 55,064,527 people disagreed with you. And I hope that your 58,589,935 people and out 55,064,527 people can become America once again.[/quote]

Just an FYI in American politics this is not uncommon. What is uncommon is that George Bush won the majority of voters. 51% - not even Clinton was able to achieve this feat, its the first time since 1988 that this occurred. Also the 58mil+ that voted for Bush is the largest amount of people who voted for a president in our history ever. So though it was a somewhat close race, races if this span are not all too uncommon; perhaps what characterized this race is that it was more emotionally charged. I would have been upset, but not bitter if John Kerry won, and I would not have fought against unifying causes when they arose.

Perhaps what is more interesting to discuss is that the Democrat party has become too left-leaning by going with the Michael Moores and George Soros of the world. Think about it. It wasn't just that Bush won. Bush won, he expanded the majority in the senate and the house by 4 seats which is amazing (first time since 1924 iirc) at the same time, the democrat senate minority leader was defeated for the first time in 50 some years. Clearly there is something going badly with the way the Democrat party is courting the American people recently. And I think that it is because they have moved away from the moderate politics of JFK and instead moved towards the extreme left politics of Ted Kennedy. Zell Miller seemed to be dead on in his criticism of the Democrat party - it just appears to be missing the boat with the majority of the American people.

I'm ready and willing to work with democrats, and I hope they also take a look at their own party and figure out exactly why they lost by such a large amount this election (lost electoral college, popular vote by 4mil, 4 senate seats, senate minority leader, 4 house seats, etc), and decide whether they want to keep going left or perhaps move back to a more moderate platform that is not so radical to the majority of Americans. I also feel that the Democrats ran the Kerry campaign primarily by playing up hate of the president and division with scathing vitriol by Moore, moveon.org, soros, etc, and I don't think that is the way to unify or win the hearts of the American people.

I also agree, unifying now is the most important thing for democrats and republicans, and I'm all for it.

For democrats out there, do you really want this man as your spokesman?
http://www.michaelmoore.com/
Check out whats on his front page, how moore reacted to the Bush win - Bush's face made up out of the faces of the military killed in Iraq & Afghanistan. Is that supposed to be unifying? Because with the democrat party as it stands, Michael Moore was at the DNC and will have the ear of the party.
 
You know what too, is if Kerry had won, everybody (from both parties) would have been watching him like a hawk to see if he would uphold his promises. I don't think we should let up on GWB any more than we should have let up on Kerry, and we should make sure he sticks to the promises that he made.
 
Promises? What promises? The only promise I can think of from the Bush camp was that if Kerry was elected, terrorists would kill us all. Bush ran a campaign 100% based on fear and mud-slinging. Issues didn't even make it to the sidelines.
 
He promised there would be no draft and that he would not raise taxes, I believe. Otherwise, it was mostly mud slinging.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']His father promised not to raise taxes.... look what he did. He promises not to have a draft..... ???[/quote]

A draft is unnecessary. We have more than enough troops, and if we need more we can increase the incentives/benefits for joining the military. The US military is designed to be able to fight two wars at once.

Also, as we continue to train Iraq forces, we can begin moving troops out. It won't happen overnight, but it can happen over the course of W's second term.

Remember, the *only*, and I repeat the *only* person to propose a draft includes two democratic senators including Charlie Wrangle. And it was voted down in congress.

And remember that - even if Bush really wanted to reinstate the draft, which was a transparent total BS fear tactic to get Kerry elected, he would be blocked by doing so by Congress, so its a moot point.
 
wow, i am very suprised at how everyone is taking this. There were too many flaming threads to count before. But it is nice at how eeryseems to be getting along much better, and to that i say congrats to everyone!
 
The majority has spoken. Live with the results. I will say this. People cannot be expected to make informed decisions when they are frightened.
 
[quote name='Ruined']A draft is unnecessary. We have more than enough troops, and if we need more we can increase the incentives/benefits for joining the military.[/quote]

A soldier risking his or her life on the ground in Iraq gets paid less than minumum wage and less than a kid flipping burgers part time.
 
[quote name='bignick']Who would have thought that the "I'm not Bush" campaign would not have worked.[/quote]

That wasn't what the campaign was about, that is what all of you republican fuckers SAID it was about to try and get people to not pay attention.

It is the only way you people can win, through lies and deceit.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla'][quote name='bignick']Who would have thought that the "I'm not Bush" campaign would not have worked.[/quote]

That wasn't what the campaign was about, that is what all of you republican shaq-fuers SAID it was about to try and get people to not pay attention.

It is the only way you people can win, through lies and deceit.[/quote]

Sorry quack, but bignick is dead on right. According to polls, 40-45% of Kerry voters were voting for Kerry. 45-50% of Kerry voters were voting against Bush. 75-80% of Bush voters were voting for Bush. 10-15% of Bush voters were voting against Kerry. Kerry very much ran the "I'm not Bush" campaign as the polls showed he failed to get people to vote for him, rather against Bush.
 
[quote name='Ruined'][quote name='Quackzilla'][quote name='bignick']Who would have thought that the "I'm not Bush" campaign would not have worked.[/quote]

That wasn't what the campaign was about, that is what all of you republican shaq-fuers SAID it was about to try and get people to not pay attention.

It is the only way you people can win, through lies and deceit.[/quote]

Sorry quack, but bignick is dead on right. According to polls, 40-45% of Kerry voters were voting for Kerry. 45-50% of Kerry voters were voting against Bush. 75-80% of Bush voters were voting for Bush. 10-15% of Bush voters were voting against Kerry. Kerry very much ran the "I'm not Bush" campaign as the polls showed he failed to get people to vote for him, rather against Bush.[/quote]

Those numbers are from a CNN email poll and a limited sample exit poll.
 
if you think people were actually voting for Kerry you are screwed up in the head. People voted aganist Bush and the things he has done in his 4 years in office more than anything.

Picking a northern liberal (who is pretty far to the left) was not a smart decision in a country that has been shifting to the right slowly over the past 10 years.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']if you think people were actually voting for Kerry you are screwed up in the head. People voted aganist Bush and the things he has done in his 4 years in office more than anything.

Picking a northern liberal (who is pretty far to the left) was not a smart decision in a country that has been shifting to the right slowly over the past 10 years.[/quote]

Plus, no democrat has never won an election in which they didnt win the souther states. Im sure people in Mississipps relate real well to Kerry.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla'][quote name='bignick']Who would have thought that the "I'm not Bush" campaign would not have worked.[/quote]

That wasn't what the campaign was about, that is what all of you republican shaq-fuers SAID it was about to try and get people to not pay attention.

It is the only way you people can win, through lies and deceit.[/quote]

Since you have time to come up with outrageous posts, go through this whole forum and count the number of times a Kerry supporter says, "he's not Bush"
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']Those numbers are from a CNN email poll and a limited sample exit poll.[/quote]

opinion dynamics got the same result too, and I think its pretty clear from the general reaction of people that most were voting against Bush, not for Kerry.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla'][quote name='Ruined']A draft is unnecessary. We have more than enough troops, and if we need more we can increase the incentives/benefits for joining the military.[/quote]

A soldier risking his or her life on the ground in Iraq gets paid less than minumum wage and less than a kid flipping burgers part time.[/quote]

The way I deal with the election is that I am glad for the Bush voters. They can go and send their kids to Iraq, and they can censor my news and entertainment, ruin the national parks in the mid west, and follow whatever other BS this administration wants to do.

I will never be in the armed services. My family will never be in the armed services. I watch foreign news shows and fight for the enviornment in my area. Beyond that, well all of it is yours Walmart America.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']

A soldier risking his or her life on the ground in Iraq gets paid less than minumum wage and less than a kid flipping burgers part time.[/quote]

So you really dont have a clue do you. Soldiers meals and housing are provided to them. Thats a substantial amount of money. Not to mention pension and health care.
 
[quote name='Drocket']Promises? What promises? The only promise I can think of from the Bush camp was that if Kerry was elected, terrorists would kill us all. Bush ran a campaign 100% based on fear and mud-slinging. Issues didn't even make it to the sidelines.[/quote]

Thats a great point. This is a carte blanche presidency.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
 
[quote name='bignick'][quote name='Quackzilla']

A soldier risking his or her life on the ground in Iraq gets paid less than minumum wage and less than a kid flipping burgers part time.[/quote]

So you really dont have a clue do you. Soldiers meals and housing are provided to them. Thats a substantial amount of money. Not to mention pension and health care.[/quote]

Or college, a huge incentive.
 
[quote name='camoor'][quote name='Drocket']Promises? What promises? The only promise I can think of from the Bush camp was that if Kerry was elected, terrorists would kill us all. Bush ran a campaign 100% based on fear and mud-slinging. Issues didn't even make it to the sidelines.[/quote]

Thats a great point. This is a carte blanche presidency.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.[/quote]

Hey nice cliche.

National Security was the big issue in the campaign, it trumped all others in coverage, and was the dominant platform for both major candidates. This is true regardless of whether you agree with Bush or Kerry. Both candidates put major emphasis on where they were going to take the country as it pertained to Iraq and terrorism (not saying they are synonymous). You can call this fear and mud-slinging if you will, but it then applies to both Kerry and Bush, they both wanted you to trust them as Commander and Chief.

And lets not act like the Democrats were saints, the whole draft scare was baseless mud-slinging.
 
[quote name='camoor']The way I deal with the election is that I am glad for the Bush voters. They can go and send their kids to Iraq, and they can censor my news and entertainment, ruin the national parks in the mid west, and follow whatever other BS this administration wants to do.

I will never be in the armed services. My family will never be in the armed services. I watch foreign news shows and fight for the enviornment in my area. Beyond that, well all of it is yours Walmart America.[/quote]

Well put.
 
[quote name='msdmoney'][quote name='bignick'][quote name='Quackzilla']

A soldier risking his or her life on the ground in Iraq gets paid less than minumum wage and less than a kid flipping burgers part time.[/quote]

So you really dont have a clue do you. Soldiers meals and housing are provided to them. Thats a substantial amount of money. Not to mention pension and health care.[/quote]

Or college, I huge incentive.[/quote]

While I was over in Iraq I got the highest extra incentive pay which was about $500 extra. I will also get a nice tax rebate back because I was tax free while I was over there. I assure you I make a bit more money than someone flipping burgers. If anyone wants to know how much I'll answer PMs I just didn't want to put my financial business out on a board.
We do get paid a tax free food amount if we don't live in dorms. (Younger troops who live in the dorms eat free at chow halls) which is about 270 a month also you get paid a Basic Allowance for housing if you live off base. That rate depends on how much it costs to live int hat area so it varies by zip code. My rate her ein Louisiana is like $920. Although I live on base in the family housing which is free plus I don't have to pay electric/water/sewer bills
Also as far as schooling I can take college classes for free right now if I get approved for Tuition assistance which is about automatic. My base also has a lot of classes on base that you attend during your lunch hour or at night)
 
[quote name='jlarlee'][quote name='msdmoney'][quote name='bignick'][quote name='Quackzilla']

A soldier risking his or her life on the ground in Iraq gets paid less than minumum wage and less than a kid flipping burgers part time.[/quote]

So you really dont have a clue do you. Soldiers meals and housing are provided to them. Thats a substantial amount of money. Not to mention pension and health care.[/quote]

Or college, I huge incentive.[/quote]

While I was over in Iraq I got the highest extra incentive pay which was about $500 extra. I will also get a nice tax rebate back because I was tax free while I was over there. I assure you I make a bit more money than someone flipping burgers. If anyone wants to know how much I'll answer PMs I just didn't want to put my financial business out on a board.
We do get paid a tax free food amount if we don't live in dorms. (Younger troops who live in the dorms eat free at chow halls) which is about 270 a month also you get paid a Basic Allowance for housing if you live off base. That rate depends on how much it costs to live int hat area so it varies by zip code. My rate her ein Louisiana is like $920. Although I live on base in the family housing which is free plus I don't have to pay electric/water/sewer bills
Also as far as schooling I can take college classes for free right now if I get approved for Tuition assistance which is about automatic. My base also has a lot of classes on base that you attend during your lunch hour or at night)[/quote]
You don't get a ton of money if you're not in a warzone though. I know people who have been in the military 10 20 years (not officers) and they never made a lot, certainly much much less than they could have in the private sector, especially the technical people. Their retention would probably be higher if the money was more. The original premise is probably wrong, but I'd still like to see soldiers get paid more.

Don't you lose your health care if you're in the reserves? Plus once you leave, you get to deal with the nightmare that is the VA.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']You don't get a ton of money if you're not in a warzone though. I know people who have been in the military 10 20 years (not officers) and they never made a lot...[/quote]

Yeah, but how much money do you really need when you're more than a thousand years old? And to be in the military that long and still not make officer - I get the feeling they're not very bright anyway.

:p
 
[quote name='"Drocket"'][quote name='dafoomie']You don't get a ton of money if you're not in a warzone though. I know people who have been in the military 10 20 years (not officers) and they never made a lot...[/quote]

Yeah, but how much money do you really need when you're more than a thousand years old? And to be in the military that long and still not make officer - I get the feeling they're not very bright anyway.

:p[

You have to have a college degree to be an officer so how long you are in doesn't dictate that, I've been in 8 years and I do as well or better as similar aged people who have families. The VA does scare me but not paying for health care saves me a ton of money.
 
You have to get a college degree to be an officer time in the military doesn't give you a better chance. I have been in 8 years and Id say I do as well or better than all of the civilain people my age with families. Not having to pay for health care saves me a mint. Although I definetly wouldn't turn down a pay raise. But I don't think the military is as underpaid as teachers are
 
being an officer is dictated by having a degree being in the military a long time doesn't make you an officer. Not having to for health care helps and the other benefits help. i do better or as well as all of my civilain friends thata re my age and have families
 
[quote name='bignick'][quote name='Quackzilla']

A soldier risking his or her life on the ground in Iraq gets paid less than minumum wage and less than a kid flipping burgers part time.[/quote]

So you really dont have a clue do you. Soldiers meals and housing are provided to them. Thats a substantial amount of money. Not to mention pension and health care.[/quote]

What if they have families that they were supporting before they were sent away?

I know some reservists and apparently it totally sucks.
 
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