Too worried to buy...

Here's the thing: stuff breaks. If you wait until the revision happens (which we don't know when they are going to get here, and if there will be another revision six months after that, etc), you've missed out on all this gaming goodness now. Buy a warranty. It's that simple. It's not a waste of money, it's all about peace of mind.

Here's another thing I don't understand: people's misplaced trust that a revision will fix everything. You introduce new components, you just open yourself up to new problems by fixing the old ones. The new ones may run flawlessly and no one will ever have an issue with it...but that isn't going to happen. You'll be running with a risk of failure with everything you buy, no matter how many times they change it and try to make it better.
 
The only reason you're hearing about all the 360 breakdowns is because everyones 360 that breaks is posting about it. Do you often hear about the ones that are working since launch?

For the record, I got mine at 12:01 am on launch day and has been flawless... But if you're still worried, get the warranty. You're only depriving yourself from a great gameplay experience.
 
[quote name='Rozz']Funny, ten of my friends have 360's and 7 of them have turned them in to MS because they were broken. And who knows if there really are 10 more in fine working order? All I know is that a huge amount of 360's are defective and thats bad news.[/QUOTE]

Also PyroGamer and Scobie said similar things, and it's been my exact experience as well.

I've personally been through three (and I hardly play mine anymore, so my current might be dead by now if it were used heavily-it has red lighted on me, and crashes quite a bit in some games).

And of my friends, the majority have replaced theirs at least once.

I really thought things were better, but now we're hearing the same kinds of things about the ones made in the middle to end of last year too.

I can't believe anyone could seriously think this is a 2% defect rate. We couldn't all have either been through this or know a bunch of friends who have it it were.

I wonder if the design is just bad? Or the companies putting it together are incompetent?

It would be interesting too to see if defects are higher from one or two of the three companies building it. Like maybe one of the companies has a 1% defect rate, and another has a 40% rate or something.

I hope they get their act together, because the 360 has a ton of great exclusives. Most of the stuff is on PC, but some not (Blue Dragon, etc.)
 
[quote name='OGHowie']I assume a revamped one won't even come out till Late 2007 which should release with the DVR capable 360 they were talking about at CES.[/QUOTE]

It's not a real DVR-they're just talking about storing streams of video, which the current 360 can do just fine. There won't be any changes related to that IPTV thing (that is, all the changes would be software related). And the IPTV thing won't affect many people. It's just a subset of customers from one provider would be able to use a 360 as a set top box instead of a dedicated unit...and I'm not sure you'd want to do that, since it would tie up the 360. The exception might be if you can use your own hardware instead of renting some device for a monthly fee, but who knows how that'll end up working.
 
I guess this serves as a good demonstration of how effective FUD can be when used properly. Yeah, they can fail. It's much more likely that it won't, especially if it was manufactured recently and if you treat it like the delicate electronic device that it is, e.g. not dropping it on the floor repeatedly. Either the 'risk' is worth it to you, or it's not.

And yes, I have a perfectly functional launch 360. You just have to kick it a few times if it doesn't power on :lol:
 
I just got a 360 in Dec. I've already had problems with disc read errors, just like I had with the xboxs I had. Other than that I like it. I got a free copy of CoD2 and free 1 year replacement plan at EB when I bought it. I think the few good games it has makes it worth the risk. Buy it, spend the extra 50-60 bucks for replacement plan, and make sure to buy your copy of Gears of War. Using a chainsaw to kill locust is extremely fun.
 
[quote name='jtbradford']
And yes, I have a perfectly functional launch 360. You just have to kick it a few times if it doesn't power on :lol:[/QUOTE]

Is that a joke? I get the impression that you're joking, but with this system...

It's not FUD. The 360 has serious issues. Not everyone has them...though to be fair, the oldest ones are only a year old. Who knows what'll happen when they hit 2 or 3 or 4 years...
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']I think the 360 has been a must have for any hardcore gamer for the past six months.[/QUOTE]

Well yeah, if you're a hardcore gamer, then of course you should have a 360 (and a PS3, and a Wii, and a PC). But OP doesn't really strike me as one. And with the exception of sweeter visuals in the case of the 360 and the PS3, and novel controls in the Wii, I don't think any of these consoles have reached "you're a fool if you don't own me" status yet.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']It's not FUD. The 360 has serious issues. [/QUOTE]
Unless you have any sort of proof whatsoever, it's FUD. All you have is what "everyone says". That's the very definition of FUD; Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. You don't know anything but you talk like you do while building on peoples' fears and you do it over and over until everyone just "knows" what you're saying is true because they've heard it so many times.

Until you come up with some non-anecdotal data, all you have is FUD.
 
[quote name='Damian']Unless you have any sort of proof whatsoever, it's FUD. All you have is what "everyone says". That's the very definition of FUD; Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. You don't know anything but you talk like you do while building on peoples' fears and you do it over and over until everyone just "knows" what you're saying is true because they've heard it so many times.

Until you come up with some non-anecdotal data, all you have is FUD.[/QUOTE]

Yes we do know, because Microsoft has already admitted to it, and statistically we couldn't all have or know of all these dead 360's if the failure rate wasn't unusually high. Microsoft's never going to release exact numbers, but we don't need them to get a picture that something's wrong.
 
[quote name='mtxbass1']Rozz, define "huge". You think that somehow because 7 of your friend's 360's have failed that this is somehow a "huge" problem? You do nothing but complain about how "the 360 is such a failure and so many mass quantities are failing". Give it up already. Electronics aren't perfect and just because you read that people on the Internet are having problems (where people often bitch the most) this does not represent the MAJORITY of the systems.

If this was such a "huge" problem like everyone claimed, don't you think there would be a recall by now? Like a few members have said, you never hear posts about people who have a 360 and it works fine. You always hear the ones that want to bitch the most.

If every single registered CAG (let's estimate at 80k members) had an Xbox 360 and every one of those systems failed it would still represent a whopping 0.008% of failure in all 360's (saying 10 million exist in the wild). Most of you guys base all your facts on what you read on teh interwebs and fail to realize that OF COURSE you are going to hear the most complaints from people online. Do you see threads of the countless numbers of people saying their systems are actually working? No.

If this was truely a big deal, then there would have been a recall by now.

Every single "next gen" console will have problems. It's the nature of the beast. Electronics aren't perfect.

OP. Buy the extended warranty. Microsoft sells a 1 year and 2 year warranty.[/quote]
Wow, wow, calm down there, buddy. I'll set a few things straight.

- Microsoft actually said that there were problems with many of the early 360's so now it's free to send them back.

- I used info based on what I know, and I've never seen this many complaints about a broken console before.

-Why would anyone say their system is working? It's expected to do that. If it's broken then its good to give out feedback.

-Many of my friends broke and so do people across the intenet, and then of course theres the numerous people who you dont know whose broke.

- Also, my original Xbox broke out of nowhere and I suspect its like many of 360s where they are poorly manufactured.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']Yes we do know, because Microsoft has already admitted to it, and statistically we couldn't all have or know of all these dead 360's if the failure rate wasn't unusually high. Microsoft's never going to release exact numbers, but we don't need them to get a picture that something's wrong.[/QUOTE]

Microsoft admitted that there was a higher than expected failure rate for launch consoles. Thats why they first lifted and refunded the fee for repairs done on console released built in 2005 and then officially extended the warranty to 1 year for all consoles later.
 
[quote name='tholly']your concern is like saying you don't want to own a car because people get in accidents with them all the time.......

....just get the 360....the internet makes 1 problem with something seem like hundreds of problems.....as someone said, the failure rate is probably 2 % or less...

my system that i got 1 month after the 360 was released is still working just fine...no problems at all.....[/quote]

Actually I'd say his problem is more akin to that of a car from a brand that is known to have a high percentage of models that break down. BTW, I would reccomend a 360 though, it's definitely the best next-gen console right now.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']Yes we do know, because Microsoft has already admitted to it, [/quote]
No, they said one group of the initial run had a higher than expected return rate. To extrapolate that to "Microsoft has admitted the 360 has serious issues" is ridiculously dishonest. The cutoff date was January 1, 2006, over a full year ago. Even if the issues were "serious" (which is a subjective term to begin with, they only said they were higher than expected) that statement is still untrue because they had issues in the past tense, not "has" as you're claiming.

That's why your posts are FUD. They contain just enough truth to stand up to a cursory glance, they support what "everyone" knows and they're what people already want to think. But they still don't have any substance behind them.

and statistically we couldn't all have or know of all these dead 360's if the failure rate wasn't unusually high. Microsoft's never going to release exact numbers, but we don't need them to get a picture that something's wrong.
Click to expand...
Of course we would. Everyone who has a problem wants to talk about it. Search on any complex consumer product and you'll find boards of people complaining about it. In this case, since it's Microsoft, people especially want to believe it and there's already a pre-existing bias there.
 
I'm real sick and fucking tired of the comparisons to the PS2 DRE issue. The 360 isn't even close to that. Regardless, even if it was, Microsoft has been a THOUSAND times better about repairing and replacing dead units. My launch system went bad, called, a week later I had a brand new unit.

How long did it take sony to start repairing PS2s for free? 2, 3 years? And that was only if you really bitched and complained.
 
[quote name='Rozz']Actually I'd say his problem is more akin to that of a car from a brand that is known to have a high percentage of models that break down. BTW, I would reccomend a 360 though, it's definitely the best next-gen console right now.[/QUOTE]

no...i have to disagree with your disagreement.....

people are lumping possible 360 issues in with the huge ps2 dre fiasco....

so, its not about brands, such as you say above, but rather about items, more specificially, video game systems.....one problem on the net with any new system, and it all comes back to PS2 DREs and the huge mess that followed.....
 
[quote name='Rozz']

- I used info based on what I know, and I've never seen this many complaints about a broken console before.

-Many of my friends broke and so do people across the intenet, and then of course theres the numerous people who you dont know whose broke.

- Also, my original Xbox broke out of nowhere and I suspect its like many of 360s where they are poorly manufactured.[/quote]

So where were you during the whole DRE thing with the PS2? There were far many more complaints about DRE's than there were of dying 360's. Even so many as to have a recall. I haven't seen any recall yet for the 360.

Do you honestly expect anything to be manufactured anymore that isn't somewhat poor? Things aren't built like they used to be (nintendo products excluded). Mass consumer electronics are built poorly. That is a known fact.
 
[quote name='mtxbass1']So where were you during the whole DRE thing with the PS2? There were far many more complaints about DRE's than there were of dying 360's. Even so many as to have a recall. I haven't seen any recall yet for the 360.

Do you honestly expect anything to be manufactured anymore that isn't somewhat poor? Things aren't built like they used to be (nintendo products excluded). Mass consumer electronics are built poorly. That is a known fact.[/QUOTE]

Even the PS2 DREs were overblown. I had maybe one with mine, whereas my Xbox treats every disc like it's a dirty little whore.
 
[quote name='mtxbass1']So where were you during the whole DRE thing with the PS2? There were far many more complaints about DRE's than there were of dying 360's. Even so many as to have a recall. I haven't seen any recall yet for the 360.

Do you honestly expect anything to be manufactured anymore that isn't somewhat poor? Things aren't built like they used to be (nintendo products excluded). Mass consumer electronics are built poorly. That is a known fact.[/quote]
You're ignoring the large gaps in consoles sold between the two being the major reason for that.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']You're ignoring the large gaps in consoles sold between the two being the major reason for that.[/quote]

Large gaps? Do you have any stats to back this up or are you talking out of your ass like usual? Do you have ANY statistics at all stating how many PS2's had been sold when the DRE errors had been occuring the most?
 
[quote name='mtxbass1']Large gaps? Do you have any stats to back this up or are you talking out of your ass like usual? Do you have ANY statistics at all stating how many PS2's had been sold when the DRE errors had been occuring the most?[/quote]
Hostile much? What'd I do to you?

Do you have facts to state when the DREs occured the most?

I was more refering to the 43 million to 5 million units difference right now with the whole 360 issues that are all the rage right now. However if you want something else, I'll see what I can find.

I guess I'll go with class action lawsuits since they tend to occur at a fever pitch of anger, which this site talks about the earliest one I've heard about, which was filed in July of 2002. Using this handy, dandy graph from VGcharts.org, we can see that the PS2 had about 12 million units under its belt at that point, which is a hefty 7 million unit (240% higher) difference between the two. Anytime after 2001 would be a large enough gap to account for hearing more people complain about it on the internet than with the 360.

Is that enough or are you going to get angry and call me an ass?
 
just thought i'd throw this out there, but consumer market studies unanimously prove for every 1 person who complains, there are 4-?x as many people not complaining. surf the net and look. i don't look at it as how many people aren't touting their 360 running great, but rather how many aren't posting/reporting problems. that's not naivete, just the way it needs to be looked at

your concern is viable. i'm pretty much in the same boat. waiting to find out how some multi-platform games compare with their ps3 counterparts along with official word on when the new redesign is coming out and when it will come out.
 
[quote name='Damian']No, they said one group of the initial run had a higher than expected return rate. To extrapolate that to "Microsoft has admitted the 360 has serious issues" is ridiculously dishonest. The cutoff date was January 1, 2006, over a full year ago. Even if the issues were "serious" (which is a subjective term to begin with, they only said they were higher than expected) that statement is still untrue because they had issues in the past tense, not "has" as you're claiming.

That's why your posts are FUD. They contain just enough truth to stand up to a cursory glance, they support what "everyone" knows and they're what people already want to think. But they still don't have any substance behind them.[/quote]

This is so completely bogus. You're a fanboi. No one thinking rationally could defend the 360's reliability.

Gee, there's a cut off date...umm, the cut off put EVERY SINGLE 360 SOLD UNDER WARRANTY as of when they came out with the new warranty and refund program.

Again, to the original poster-the 360 does have issues, but at the same time it's got a great library. The warranty is a year now, so it's up to you to decide on it.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']This is so completely bogus. You're a fanboi. No one thinking rationally could defend the 360's reliability.[/quote]
You caught me, I love Microsoft. That's why I've been running Linux on my home desktop exclusively for 6 years now and why I've owned every basically every single console ever made. When you're so far sunk in your delusions I can see how rationality and logic looks like fanboyism though. It's interesting that you interpet what I write as "defending the 360's reliability" too, when all I've been doing is saying that anecdotal evidence is bullshit and that all you have is anecdotal evidence.
Gee, there's a cut off date...umm, the cut off put EVERY SINGLE 360 SOLD UNDER WARRANTY as of when they came out with the new warranty and refund program.
Click to expand...
Way to read what I linked! They announced in September of 2006 that they were comping repairs for consoles manufacturer before January 1, 2006. Unless they didn't manufacture a single console in those 10 months, you're an idiot. Then, when they announced the new one year warranty on Dec 22, 2006 launch console would still be out of warranty by a month, so if it hadn't broken by then it would be out of warranty. I know facts just get in the way of your frothy rants but at least pretend to read it. You're so attached to what "everyone knows" you just can't accept that you've based everything you think on emotion and opinion. Not everyone lives their life that way. I'm done wasting my time with someone who wants to ignore anything that contradicts their established viewpoint.
 
I got mine at costco. After less then 2 week's I already got one dirty disc message while trying to play PDZ but i'll chalk it up to a fluke. So far its worked mostly fine although the ozone smell while its running gets annoying.

The smell is decreasing though which is a plus.
 
Oy, I guess my comment made a bit of an argument. When I mentioned FUD, I was just referring to how this 'high failure rate' stigma is still attached to the 360, even though the issues with the overly-high failures were addressed. Although maybe they haven't been addressed; I was just under the impression that they have been, I can't think of anything specific to point to.

And yes, I was joking about needing to kick my 360 ;)
 
Its not really worth discussing anything with Wolfpup involved. He's nearly as bad as The Mana Knight for bullshitting claims.

Bottom line. Its a $400 piece of electronic equipment. If you buy a warranty for your washing machine...you should certainly buy one for your 360.
 
[quote name='terribledeli']Its not really worth discussing anything with Wolfpup involved. He's nearly as bad as The Mana Knight for bullshitting claims.
[/QUOTE]

It really is true. Quickly being added to most ignore lists, too.
 
[quote name='terribledeli']Its not really worth discussing anything with Wolfpup involved. He's nearly as bad as The Mana Knight for bullshitting claims.

Bottom line. Its a $400 piece of electronic equipment. If you buy a warranty for your washing machine...you should certainly buy one for your 360.[/QUOTE]

This is truely arguable. There have been numerous studies (though, I don't have a link to any at the moment) that show that buying extended warrenties is a losing proposition. If you buy them for everything, you will overtime lose money (meaning your better off saving the money from the extended warrenties and just replacing whatever item happens to break).

Though, I definitely think this is true. If it wasn't true, what would be the incentive for almost every single store to offer these and to push their sales?
 
[quote name='lordxixor101']Though, I definitely think this is true. If it wasn't true, what would be the incentive for almost every single store to offer these and to push their sales?[/QUOTE]
It absolutely is true. That's the fundamental nature of insurance. You can't pay out more than you charge for providing it. An "extended warranty" is just insurance with a different name. Like any insurance policy you have to weigh the costs and benefits and for some people the intangible costs as well.
 
[quote name='Damian']You caught me, I love Microsoft. That's why I've been running Linux on my home desktop exclusively for 6 years now and why I've owned every basically every single console ever made. When you're so far sunk in your delusions I can see how rationality and logic looks like fanboyism though. It's interesting that you interpet what I write as "defending the 360's reliability" too, when all I've been doing is saying that anecdotal evidence is bullshit and that all you have is anecdotal evidence.[/quote]

I don't care if you put Linux on your toaster, you're arguing against everything all of us have been seeing for the last year. It's a bit silly to say I'm a fanboy for pointing out that "hey, there sure are a lot of us with dead 360s!".

Way to read what I linked! They announced in September of 2006 that they were comping repairs for consoles manufacturer before January 1, 2006. Unless they didn't manufacture a single console in those 10 months, you're an idiot.
Click to expand...

Personal attacks! Wow. Fanbois never do that.

If you had read what I wrote, I said at the time they instituted their new policy EVERY SINGLE 360 was covered, because EVERY SINGLE 360 was either under warranty or covered by that warranty exception. (Or maybe it was a bit later-I don't know but it was around the same time)

[quote name='Brian9824']I got mine at costco. After less then 2 week's I already got one dirty disc message while trying to play PDZ but i'll chalk it up to a fluke. So far its worked mostly fine although the ozone smell while its running gets annoying.

The smell is decreasing though which is a plus.[/QUOTE]

As far as I know, that's not normal. None of my 360's have ever had a smell (besides just kind of a "new electronics" type smell). Maybe something dripped somewhere during manufacture and is just slowly burning off?

[quote name='jtbradford']Oy, I guess my comment made a bit of an argument. When I mentioned FUD, I was just referring to how this 'high failure rate' stigma is still attached to the 360, even though the issues with the overly-high failures were addressed. Although maybe they haven't been addressed; I was just under the impression that they have been, I can't think of anything specific to point to.

And yes, I was joking about needing to kick my 360 ;)[/QUOTE]

And yeah, I think everyone's pretty much reached the same conclusion (aside from the fanbois). At least we're all hoping our newer 360's are going to last. I still plan on trading mine in for a redesigned one though (especially if it's quieter).

[quote name='terribledeli']Its not really worth discussing anything with Wolfpup involved. He's nearly as bad as The Mana Knight for bullshitting claims.

Bottom line. Its a $400 piece of electronic equipment. If you buy a warranty for your washing machine...you should certainly buy one for your 360.[/QUOTE]

I've never "bullshitted" claims, and for that matter I've never seen The Mana Knight make anything up either. I've seen him say repeatedly he defends the PS3 because he's sick of seeing it bashed by fanbois. For some reason, fanbois are really rabid against Sony products.

Regarding warranties, generally they're a losing proposition, as lordxixor101 says. There are exceptions, like if a product has a bad history or that sort of thing, but generally they HAVE to be a losing proposition or else they wouldn't be offered. In many cases, the store makes more money off the warranty than they do the product, which is why you can't get out the door without a sales push.

The only two products I've ever bought a warranty for are the PSP and my 360. The former because the earlier Japanese units had had some issues (bad 4 button, etc.), the latter because my first two 360's died (and that warranty ended up being worthless as Microsoft now has a year on it).

I do plan to add one to my notebook when I get one though, just because I'll be opening and closing it, plugging stuff in and out every single day.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Hostile much? What'd I do to you?

Do you have facts to state when the DREs occured the most?

I was more refering to the 43 million to 5 million units difference right now with the whole 360 issues that are all the rage right now. However if you want something else, I'll see what I can find.

I guess I'll go with class action lawsuits since they tend to occur at a fever pitch of anger, which this site talks about the earliest one I've heard about, which was filed in July of 2002. Using this handy, dandy graph from VGcharts.org, we can see that the PS2 had about 12 million units under its belt at that point, which is a hefty 7 million unit (240% higher) difference between the two. Anytime after 2001 would be a large enough gap to account for hearing more people complain about it on the internet than with the 360.

Is that enough or are you going to get angry and call me an ass?[/quote]

A late reply, but one none the less. You yourself say that sony had 12 million units by that point. MS has a little over 10 million units at this point in time. Where exactly are you getting a 5 million unit figure from? How exactly is "a hefty 7 million unit difference" equal to 240% of the units available? Even if I use your numbers, it's not 240%.

12 million units is not 240% MORE than 5 million units.

What is 100% of 5 million? 5 Million.

What is 200% of 5 million? 10 Million.

How is a "7 million" unit lead = 240% over what is accounted for now?


Have you seen a single class action lawsuit yet filed against Microsoft for these problems?
 
[quote name='mtxbass1']Have you seen a single class action lawsuit yet filed against Microsoft for these problems?[/QUOTE]
Ah what a great thread to resurrect. Anyway, to answer your questions. There have been two. One back in Dec 2005, which was smacked down (I don't think it was ever granted class action status but it's hard to find specifics on the resolution). The second is ongoing and relates to the Fall update bricking. It was filed earlier this year and hasn't gone anywhere yet.
 
[quote name='mtxbass1']A late reply, but one none the less. You yourself say that sony had 12 million units by that point. MS has a little over 10 million units at this point in time. Where exactly are you getting a 5 million unit figure from? How exactly is "a hefty 7 million unit difference" equal to 240% of the units available? Even if I use your numbers, it's not 240%.

12 million units is not 240% MORE than 5 million units.

What is 100% of 5 million? 5 Million.

What is 200% of 5 million? 10 Million.

How is a "7 million" unit lead = 240% over what is accounted for now?


Have you seen a single class action lawsuit yet filed against Microsoft for these problems?[/quote]
If you actually looked at the links I provided, they are for the North American figures only because that's frankly where all of this talk of DRE's on the intarweb are coming from. Microsoft has only sold about 5 million units so far in the US and don't start pulling that 10 million sold BS, that was a shipped figure that MS (like Sony) rationalizes as a sale to retailers, not customers.

I will admit that the "higher" addition is a mistake on my part, not exactly worthy of this hostile response because you could have probably recognized what I meant. It's just 240% of what MS has sold in the US so far.

Besides that nutjob in Chicago (IIRC) around the launch, there hasn't been anything yet. The 360's only been out just over a year, so throwing the lack of class action lawsuits doesn't mean much right now. Are CAL's the ultimate sign of problems? Were there any CAL's for the Xbox and it's DVD drive issues?
 
It's always a good idea to wait on systems. It's a reoccuring cycle that you may see... I mean the Ps2 models got a bit better. Wait till that newer 360 comes out, it may be worth your money. I don't know too much about the new ones but you may want to read up on it if you're contemplating a bit about it.
 
i'm on my third Wii since launch Nov '06.

i'm still on my original 360 since Sept '06.

just thought i'd throw that out there.
 
My launch 360 is still chuggin along as is one of my friends' consoles. Another one of my friends' consoles, however, is on their 3rd 360 since the launch 360 but their environment is definitely questionable(crazy ass dog).
 
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