TRU Markdown Sale Whining
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I wish someone would enlighten me on what ethical rule I am violating by purchasing a game that I know will be on sale before it goes on sale. Usually I'm all for moral justice, but this one is beyond me.
By the way, I think that people camping outside a store for a 360 are immoral because they know that it will be in stock that day and the person who sits in line first is guaranteed a console.
By the way, I think that people camping outside a store for a 360 are immoral because they know that it will be in stock that day and the person who sits in line first is guaranteed a console.
People just need to stop bitching about people such as myself that went to the stores and paid full price and then on Thursday we will get it price adjusted. That is part of being a cheapassgamer. If we all waited until Thursday, the people that get there 1st will get it. I don't know about you, but that wouldn't be until lunch time and all of the $9.99 games would be gone...BTW, my local store stated that they do price adjust...
[quote name='botticus']I wish someone would enlighten me on what ethical rule I am violating by purchasing a game that I know will be on sale before it goes on sale. Usually I'm all for moral justice, but this one is beyond me.
By the way, I think that people camping outside a store for a 360 are immoral because they know that it will be in stock that day and the person who sits in line first is guaranteed a console.[/QUOTE]
Because it's using privileged information to an unfair advantage. It's depleting stock of something that's DUE to go on clearance BEFORE the planned clearance date when a bin/table will be put out for the general public to see. If you're standing in line overnight to get an Xbox when it's DUE to come out, that's entirely different.
By the way, I think that people camping outside a store for a 360 are immoral because they know that it will be in stock that day and the person who sits in line first is guaranteed a console.
[/QUOTE]Because it's using privileged information to an unfair advantage. It's depleting stock of something that's DUE to go on clearance BEFORE the planned clearance date when a bin/table will be put out for the general public to see. If you're standing in line overnight to get an Xbox when it's DUE to come out, that's entirely different.
[quote name='Vegan']Because it's using privileged information to an unfair advantage. It's depleting stock of something that's DUE to go on clearance BEFORE the planned clearance date when a bin/table will be put out for the general public to see. If you're standing in line overnight to get an Xbox when it's DUE to come out, that's entirely different.[/QUOTE]
Hey, don't you also have the unfair advantage. Actually many things in life that you may know before someone helps you get an advantage....
Hey, don't you also have the unfair advantage. Actually many things in life that you may know before someone helps you get an advantage....
I can't see anything even remotely wrong with getting a price adjustment on this. You are basically attributing knowledge of the pending clearance as the reason why it's "wrong" but it is perfectly acceptable for someone to get the price adjustment on Thursday who had no idea of the clearance at the time of sale. It doesn't make any sense to me.
[quote name='evanft']People are just whiny bitches.[/QUOTE]
you mean like this guy?
[quote name='lordopus99']I have met a couple of the CAGs where I used to live and they were nice. But as a whole, there are alot that don't post intentions and just go off instincts of greed. The community that posts seem to be like you describe but even some of them think beyond just getting their one copy... Here is a post describing one of those posters...
Before someone calls me a crybaby, I am not interested in any games there right now as I have this nice XBox360 to play and a couple new games for my DS.[/QUOTE]
you mean like this guy?
[quote name='lordopus99']I have met a couple of the CAGs where I used to live and they were nice. But as a whole, there are alot that don't post intentions and just go off instincts of greed. The community that posts seem to be like you describe but even some of them think beyond just getting their one copy... Here is a post describing one of those posters...
Before someone calls me a crybaby, I am not interested in any games there right now as I have this nice XBox360 to play and a couple new games for my DS.[/QUOTE]
[quote name='javeryh']I can't see anything even remotely wrong with getting a price adjustment on this. You are basically attributing knowledge of the pending clearance as the reason why it's "wrong" but it is perfectly acceptable for someone to get the price adjustment on Thursday who had no idea of the clearance at the time of sale. It doesn't make any sense to me.[/QUOTE]
Come on, man, as a lawyer you know that knowledge, scienter, can make a world of difference. Whether or not it does in this case is not clear. I would say the dispositive question is whether or not this is an advertised sale. If it is, then the point is to bring in customers to take advantage of the sale and to buy other merchandise. If the shelves are empty because of us, then TRU loses sales, and maybe eventually people stop coming in for advertised sales at all. If, on the other hand, it's just an unadvertised clearance, then TRU is not trying to leverage it to make more sales in other departments, and in fact might be grateful for the help in clearing the shelves quickly.
A general rant not directed at anyone in particular: A lot of people seem to posit the customer/store relationship as us versus them. I think that's completely wrong. The store is providing you with merchandise because they want to make money. You are accepting the merchandise because you want it. It is not an adversarial relationship. Anyone who doesn't like the prices/policies/etc. of a given store is welcome to shop elsewhere, not to attempt to mess with the store's business by exploiting policies, loopholes, etc.
Finally, I just want to point out that botticus' analogy to the XB360 line doesn't hold an ounce of water, eye-rolling icon notwithstanding, because in that case it was the store's decision to let people line up to buy the item, whereas here the store likely does not know at all that people are buying up items to PM later. If it did, it might make the decision to let them, but we don't know that.
Come on, man, as a lawyer you know that knowledge, scienter, can make a world of difference. Whether or not it does in this case is not clear. I would say the dispositive question is whether or not this is an advertised sale. If it is, then the point is to bring in customers to take advantage of the sale and to buy other merchandise. If the shelves are empty because of us, then TRU loses sales, and maybe eventually people stop coming in for advertised sales at all. If, on the other hand, it's just an unadvertised clearance, then TRU is not trying to leverage it to make more sales in other departments, and in fact might be grateful for the help in clearing the shelves quickly.
A general rant not directed at anyone in particular: A lot of people seem to posit the customer/store relationship as us versus them. I think that's completely wrong. The store is providing you with merchandise because they want to make money. You are accepting the merchandise because you want it. It is not an adversarial relationship. Anyone who doesn't like the prices/policies/etc. of a given store is welcome to shop elsewhere, not to attempt to mess with the store's business by exploiting policies, loopholes, etc.
Finally, I just want to point out that botticus' analogy to the XB360 line doesn't hold an ounce of water, eye-rolling icon notwithstanding, because in that case it was the store's decision to let people line up to buy the item, whereas here the store likely does not know at all that people are buying up items to PM later. If it did, it might make the decision to let them, but we don't know that.
I can't believe we are arguing morality in game purchasing. Good Lord.
Buy what you want, sell what you want, we are all consumers and have the right to do what we please with our money and the products it may purchase. Welcome to America.
And bravo to whoever started this massive thread-jacking!
Buy what you want, sell what you want, we are all consumers and have the right to do what we please with our money and the products it may purchase. Welcome to America.
And bravo to whoever started this massive thread-jacking!
terribledeli
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[quote name='the ender']I can't believe we are arguing morality in game purchasing. Good Lord.
[/QUOTE]
This is the decline of these forums. I can predict how it'll play out - "I bought the games today and plan on pricematching on Thursday" then someone will say "Thats not fair, you're effectively ruining the sale and stealing the copies from someone" then someone else will chime in defending the first person, then someone else will chime in defending the second person, etc.
If someone uses a method you're unhappy with, just hold your goddamn tongue. Christ, all I ever read now is people constantly bitching about someone's means to aquire games. We're not on legaleagle.com folks, we've all done something that normal customers wouldn't.
edit: To put in back on topic. Any TRU employees know if they are actually doing to mark this sale? Or are we going to have to scan to verify?
[/QUOTE]
This is the decline of these forums. I can predict how it'll play out - "I bought the games today and plan on pricematching on Thursday" then someone will say "Thats not fair, you're effectively ruining the sale and stealing the copies from someone" then someone else will chime in defending the first person, then someone else will chime in defending the second person, etc.
If someone uses a method you're unhappy with, just hold your goddamn tongue. Christ, all I ever read now is people constantly bitching about someone's means to aquire games. We're not on legaleagle.com folks, we've all done something that normal customers wouldn't.
edit: To put in back on topic. Any TRU employees know if they are actually doing to mark this sale? Or are we going to have to scan to verify?
If you're hoarding games pre-clearance to PM later with the sole intention of making money by ebaying them, you can go to hell. If you are picking up several games, one copy of each for your own personal collection, I have no problem.
Keep in mind, people still want to buy alot of these games for Xmas gifts, and alot don't even know of this clearance and are going to pay the full price w/o adjusting. If they go in for a particular game for little Johnny that happens to be on this list, but come out empty handed because of hoarding, what impression does that leave for the store? They'll go elsewhere from now on, further cutting into TRU's profits, not to mention the money lost by this excessive hoarding/PM'ing. The majority of these Xmas shoppers won't return for most likely months after the holiday, so they would most likely be oblivious to the change in pricing.
This probably sounds like gibberish to alot of people, but I'm hopped up on cold/flu meds, and it sounds good to me.
Keep in mind, people still want to buy alot of these games for Xmas gifts, and alot don't even know of this clearance and are going to pay the full price w/o adjusting. If they go in for a particular game for little Johnny that happens to be on this list, but come out empty handed because of hoarding, what impression does that leave for the store? They'll go elsewhere from now on, further cutting into TRU's profits, not to mention the money lost by this excessive hoarding/PM'ing. The majority of these Xmas shoppers won't return for most likely months after the holiday, so they would most likely be oblivious to the change in pricing.
This probably sounds like gibberish to alot of people, but I'm hopped up on cold/flu meds, and it sounds good to me.
sweet_gorgor
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[quote name='javeryh']I can't see anything even remotely wrong with getting a price adjustment on this. You are basically attributing knowledge of the pending clearance as the reason why it's "wrong" but it is perfectly acceptable for someone to get the price adjustment on Thursday who had no idea of the clearance at the time of sale. It doesn't make any sense to me.[/QUOTE]
javeryh, lets say if you saw 5 copies of dds on saturday and u read this thread on sunday night, you then rush to the store and try to get the game on monday but someone has already bought all and going to do a price-adjust on thursday. Wouldn't you feel they are assholes as well? lol.
Now what if every single game you wanted was bought by ppl who will price adjust later? u sure u would congrat them being so smart and taking advantage of the loophole for the company's policy? i dont believe so.
javeryh, lets say if you saw 5 copies of dds on saturday and u read this thread on sunday night, you then rush to the store and try to get the game on monday but someone has already bought all and going to do a price-adjust on thursday. Wouldn't you feel they are assholes as well? lol.
Now what if every single game you wanted was bought by ppl who will price adjust later? u sure u would congrat them being so smart and taking advantage of the loophole for the company's policy? i dont believe so.
[quote name='the ender']I can't believe we are arguing morality in game purchasing. Good Lord.[/quote]
God forbid there'd be a little serious discussion to go along with the mass consumption.
You can't use your money to buy drugs or in most states prostitutes. You can't use your money to buy people. You can't use your money to take out an ad in the paper saying "My neighbor cheats on his wife." You can't use your money to engage in illegal insider trading. In short, you can't do a lot of things that involve money. I'm not sure you really understand America.
God forbid there'd be a little serious discussion to go along with the mass consumption.
You can't use your money to buy drugs or in most states prostitutes. You can't use your money to buy people. You can't use your money to take out an ad in the paper saying "My neighbor cheats on his wife." You can't use your money to engage in illegal insider trading. In short, you can't do a lot of things that involve money. I'm not sure you really understand America.
Pricematching at a later time, prior to the actual sale price, sounds remarkably close to insider trading to me. I'm sure my analogy is somewhat off, but it's like illennium is positing - we have prior knowledge and we are putting it to work for us. Just like someone knowing a business deal later in the week is going to drive stock prices up/down, we're anticipating something before it officially begins. Now I don't know the ins and outs of insider trading, so I could be completely off base, but if what my marginal information tells me, I'm thinking this is comparable, if not directly parallel.
I wonder what it's like when TRU corporate looks down at their books for today and thinks "holy shit, 167% in sales," and then checks on Thursday and sees that profit absolutely melt away when they pay back all of that back. Suffice to say I'm guessing several pairs of perfectly good pants get ruined. It's probably not that far off 1 cent guides ruining their average sales.
Given all of this, and given the fact that I am a poor college student, I can't afford to drop $300 or so on games, even if I know I'll get $200+ back on Thursday. I also would feel incredbily awkward with the entire scenario. I don't feel the need to secure my games beyond getting to a store early and being lucky.
It's gotten to the point where I wonder just how ethical CAG as a whole is. Granted I'm not going to mount some sort of ethical attack here, but I'm quickly realizing that *I* know far more about prices and a store's inventory than the employees themselves.
Case in point - 128 memory sticks at TRU. I couldn't find them so I asked an employee if they were in the back - yes they were. Had her price check it. $0.98 cents. I was expecting a $5.48 or something like that, so I boggled at 98 cents. So did she. But she just smiled and let me take some. Back with the original TRU 90% off sale, I walked in about 2 minutes after it opened. By then the employees recognized me (it's the beard, man) and one of them goes "You won't beleive what is going on right now!" and I just casually said "Yea, 90% off, eh?"
This also doesn't count trying to do the green tag glitch (although to be fair, TRU corp apparently knew about it but made no effort to fix it).
We're in possession of knowledge, people. The moment we start to exploit it beyond its means, we'll all get f*cked in the end. I don't particularly care if you PM later on, but I do have to agree that you're using knowledge an ordinary person (i.e., Joe American) doesn't have access to. And even though I hate the general public, I do wonder if I'm overstepping my bounds every once and a while...
I wonder what it's like when TRU corporate looks down at their books for today and thinks "holy shit, 167% in sales," and then checks on Thursday and sees that profit absolutely melt away when they pay back all of that back. Suffice to say I'm guessing several pairs of perfectly good pants get ruined. It's probably not that far off 1 cent guides ruining their average sales.
Given all of this, and given the fact that I am a poor college student, I can't afford to drop $300 or so on games, even if I know I'll get $200+ back on Thursday. I also would feel incredbily awkward with the entire scenario. I don't feel the need to secure my games beyond getting to a store early and being lucky.
It's gotten to the point where I wonder just how ethical CAG as a whole is. Granted I'm not going to mount some sort of ethical attack here, but I'm quickly realizing that *I* know far more about prices and a store's inventory than the employees themselves.
Case in point - 128 memory sticks at TRU. I couldn't find them so I asked an employee if they were in the back - yes they were. Had her price check it. $0.98 cents. I was expecting a $5.48 or something like that, so I boggled at 98 cents. So did she. But she just smiled and let me take some. Back with the original TRU 90% off sale, I walked in about 2 minutes after it opened. By then the employees recognized me (it's the beard, man) and one of them goes "You won't beleive what is going on right now!" and I just casually said "Yea, 90% off, eh?"
This also doesn't count trying to do the green tag glitch (although to be fair, TRU corp apparently knew about it but made no effort to fix it).
We're in possession of knowledge, people. The moment we start to exploit it beyond its means, we'll all get f*cked in the end. I don't particularly care if you PM later on, but I do have to agree that you're using knowledge an ordinary person (i.e., Joe American) doesn't have access to. And even though I hate the general public, I do wonder if I'm overstepping my bounds every once and a while...
[quote name='illennium']Come on, man, as a lawyer you know that knowledge, scienter, can make a world of difference. [/QUOTE]
Hahaha - very true. However, I think in this context there is nothing "morally" wrong with trying to get every advantage you can whether you have knowledge or not. The object is to pay the least amount possible for an item so as long as you are working within the confines of the system then I don't see a problem with taking advantage of it.
Of course, I'm also probably in the minority of people who think the "hoarders" on eBay aren't doing anything wrong either. Boo hoo - life is tough. Everyone has an opportunity to research for deals on whatever they want and take advantage of them - that's one of the beauties of the internet (besides porn of course). I couldn't get an Xbox 360 that I wanted but obviously there were people who wanted one more because they camped out or whatever for it when I wasn't willing to - I'm not going to cry about it - it's just the way it goes.
Hahaha - very true. However, I think in this context there is nothing "morally" wrong with trying to get every advantage you can whether you have knowledge or not. The object is to pay the least amount possible for an item so as long as you are working within the confines of the system then I don't see a problem with taking advantage of it.
Of course, I'm also probably in the minority of people who think the "hoarders" on eBay aren't doing anything wrong either. Boo hoo - life is tough. Everyone has an opportunity to research for deals on whatever they want and take advantage of them - that's one of the beauties of the internet (besides porn of course). I couldn't get an Xbox 360 that I wanted but obviously there were people who wanted one more because they camped out or whatever for it when I wasn't willing to - I'm not going to cry about it - it's just the way it goes.
[quote name='illennium']God forbid there'd be a little serious discussion to go along with the mass consumption.
You can't use your money to buy drugs or in most states prostitutes. You can't use your money to buy people. You can't use your money to take out an ad in the paper saying "My neighbor cheats on his wife." You can't use your money to engage in illegal insider trading. In short, you can't do a lot of things that involve money. I'm not sure you really understand America.[/QUOTE]
I don't call a bitch session "serious discussion". Do you?
And excuse while I lift my jaw from the ground after realizing that you compared buying games to drugs, prostitutes, and public slander. I knew someone would pull that stunt. But, if we are being technical, allow me to point out that you CAN do all of those things with your money, if you choose, just not legally.
Bottom line: You buy and sell games the way you feel is best, and let the rest of us do the same thing. Freedom and tolerance. Isn't that "America" at it's finest?
You can't use your money to buy drugs or in most states prostitutes. You can't use your money to buy people. You can't use your money to take out an ad in the paper saying "My neighbor cheats on his wife." You can't use your money to engage in illegal insider trading. In short, you can't do a lot of things that involve money. I'm not sure you really understand America.[/QUOTE]
I don't call a bitch session "serious discussion". Do you?
And excuse while I lift my jaw from the ground after realizing that you compared buying games to drugs, prostitutes, and public slander. I knew someone would pull that stunt. But, if we are being technical, allow me to point out that you CAN do all of those things with your money, if you choose, just not legally.
Bottom line: You buy and sell games the way you feel is best, and let the rest of us do the same thing. Freedom and tolerance. Isn't that "America" at it's finest?
[quote name='javeryh']Hahaha - very true. However, I think in this context there is nothing "morally" wrong with trying to get every advantage you can whether you have knowledge or not. The object is to pay the least amount possible for an item so as long as you are working within the confines of the system then I don't see a problem with taking advantage of it.
Of course, I'm also probably in the minority of people who think the "hoarders" on eBay aren't doing anything wrong either. Boo hoo - life is tough. Everyone has an opportunity to research for deals on whatever they want and take advantage of them - that's one of the beauties of the internet (besides porn of course). I couldn't get an Xbox 360 that I wanted but obviously there were people who wanted one more because they camped out or whatever for it when I wasn't willing to - I'm not going to cry about it - it's just the way it goes.[/QUOTE]
True. My problem with these people is just that they create inefficiencies in the market. It's anti-capitalistic behavior--it raises prices while conferring no added benefits. People here don't seem to understand that capitalism is about competition to lower prices, rather than monopolistic profit maximization. Oh well.
Anyway, I think the mods have made it clear that they don't want more off-topic posts so I'll stop now even though I've enjoyed reading the more thoughtful postings. Just wanted to make the efficiency point because I knew you'd get it and because it's not an antagonistic point to make. Not going to bother responding to the_ender.
Of course, I'm also probably in the minority of people who think the "hoarders" on eBay aren't doing anything wrong either. Boo hoo - life is tough. Everyone has an opportunity to research for deals on whatever they want and take advantage of them - that's one of the beauties of the internet (besides porn of course). I couldn't get an Xbox 360 that I wanted but obviously there were people who wanted one more because they camped out or whatever for it when I wasn't willing to - I'm not going to cry about it - it's just the way it goes.[/QUOTE]
True. My problem with these people is just that they create inefficiencies in the market. It's anti-capitalistic behavior--it raises prices while conferring no added benefits. People here don't seem to understand that capitalism is about competition to lower prices, rather than monopolistic profit maximization. Oh well.
Anyway, I think the mods have made it clear that they don't want more off-topic posts so I'll stop now even though I've enjoyed reading the more thoughtful postings. Just wanted to make the efficiency point because I knew you'd get it and because it's not an antagonistic point to make. Not going to bother responding to the_ender.
Yeah, sue me... I'm commenting on the moral aspect of buying early to price matching. I was annoyed when I first saw people were buying in advance so I'll say my two cents.
To be honest, it pissed me off to see people here saying they were already picking up copies. I mean, I get the be there when the doors open thing. But buy it how long in advance in anticipating of the prices dropping? It seems as annoying/offensive as hoarding to me. Having said that, if the company has a policy that allows for those type of things then they are inviting it. But, I don't like a hoarder getting all the good games early and I don't like the idea of someone buying stuff before they even have a chance to go on sale.
To be honest, it pissed me off to see people here saying they were already picking up copies. I mean, I get the be there when the doors open thing. But buy it how long in advance in anticipating of the prices dropping? It seems as annoying/offensive as hoarding to me. Having said that, if the company has a policy that allows for those type of things then they are inviting it. But, I don't like a hoarder getting all the good games early and I don't like the idea of someone buying stuff before they even have a chance to go on sale.
[quote name='KrAzY3']Yeah, sue me... I'm commenting on the moral aspect of buying early to price matching. I was annoyed when I first saw people were buying in advance so I'll say my two cents.
To be honest, it pissed me off to see people here saying they were already picking up copies. I mean, I get the be there when the doors open thing. But buy it how long in advance in anticipating of the prices dropping? It seems as annoying/offensive as hoarding to me. Having said that, if the company has a policy that allows for those type of things then they are inviting it. But, I don't like a hoarder getting all the good games early and I don't like the idea of someone buying stuff before they even have a chance to go on sale.[/QUOTE]
Nothing wrong with picking up a few games you want before the sale started (I bring this up as we are both Mobilians)... I was already going to TRU to pick up a DS bundle when I found out about the sale... taking advantage of my generous credit limit on my CC and word from TRU staff that they did price adjust, I bought 3 games, I left plenty for you there at TRU... I had a small want list to begin with, the only time I ever picked up 2 copies of a game was the CC sale and only for trades with other CAGs who wanted them
Still may go back Thursday and get a few more games (thanks to my boss for a generous Christmas bonus)
To be honest, it pissed me off to see people here saying they were already picking up copies. I mean, I get the be there when the doors open thing. But buy it how long in advance in anticipating of the prices dropping? It seems as annoying/offensive as hoarding to me. Having said that, if the company has a policy that allows for those type of things then they are inviting it. But, I don't like a hoarder getting all the good games early and I don't like the idea of someone buying stuff before they even have a chance to go on sale.[/QUOTE]
Nothing wrong with picking up a few games you want before the sale started (I bring this up as we are both Mobilians)... I was already going to TRU to pick up a DS bundle when I found out about the sale... taking advantage of my generous credit limit on my CC and word from TRU staff that they did price adjust, I bought 3 games, I left plenty for you there at TRU... I had a small want list to begin with, the only time I ever picked up 2 copies of a game was the CC sale and only for trades with other CAGs who wanted them
Still may go back Thursday and get a few more games (thanks to my boss for a generous Christmas bonus)
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