Ultra-conservatives rewrite Texas texts
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JolietJake
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I think the difference is that what conservatives see as liberalism in education, liberals see simply as the truth. Concerning history, conservatives don't seem to enjoy discussing things like the treatment of Native Americans by settlers for example. Conservatives certainly have a different view of sociology. When i went with my sociology class to help out at a homeless shelter we were told none of the Christian schools in the area ever came to help out. I won't even touch the irony in that.
Strell, when one of your earlier posts quotes me saying "world is SUPER black and white," when in fact I said nothing of the sort, that would be misquoting. Your whole "LOL@" post covers the mischaracterizing.
mykevermin, again I'm not trying to discuss racism one way or another. I take issue with a textbook (presumably) trying to generate discussion with with a statement that biases that discussion. My gripe has nothing to do with the topic and everything to do with the presentation.
Maybe so, but that cuts both ways. Liberals don't seem to enjoy discussing how FDR's policies extended the great depression, for example.
Endaar
mykevermin, again I'm not trying to discuss racism one way or another. I take issue with a textbook (presumably) trying to generate discussion with with a statement that biases that discussion. My gripe has nothing to do with the topic and everything to do with the presentation.
Maybe so, but that cuts both ways. Liberals don't seem to enjoy discussing how FDR's policies extended the great depression, for example.
Endaar
[quote name='Endaar']Strell, when one of your earlier posts quotes me saying "world is SUPER black and white," when in fact I said nothing of the sort[/quote]
You're implying that anything that isn't factually governed shouldn't be considered. So when you cherry pick out quotes from the founding fathers to color them as religious, when in fact there's more quotes to the contrary, your entire response is nothing more than "gosh, doesn't look wrong to me."
I just find it funny that someone already claims books to be liberal propoganda, and then proceeds to act surprised when people raise objections to books that clearly underline something more in line with your own ideology.
Perfect example: Everyone watch the King of the Hill episode about the reenactment of the Alamo. In that episode, a director casts all of the heroes as cowardly drug addicts that were in Texas merely to kill Mexicans in order to boost their political status, hiding behind a "You can't prove it's not true!" barrier.
No, I can't. But since it can't be proven either way any way, it makes zero sense to start banking on one over the other.
Same idea here. Seems that everything I grew up learning in school is now completely bunk. FDR ruined our country, the Native Americans are brushed aside, our country is Christian-founded, Thomas Jefferson is no longer important, and the Civil War was "the great war of Yankee aggression."
This country has writing on the wall, and it's definitely showing up in these textbooks.
Edit: See? There we go. FDR extended the depression. It's only been in the last decade that I've heard the guy did anything negative, while also seeing Reagan fellatio skyrocketing.
You're implying that anything that isn't factually governed shouldn't be considered. So when you cherry pick out quotes from the founding fathers to color them as religious, when in fact there's more quotes to the contrary, your entire response is nothing more than "gosh, doesn't look wrong to me."
I just find it funny that someone already claims books to be liberal propoganda, and then proceeds to act surprised when people raise objections to books that clearly underline something more in line with your own ideology.
Perfect example: Everyone watch the King of the Hill episode about the reenactment of the Alamo. In that episode, a director casts all of the heroes as cowardly drug addicts that were in Texas merely to kill Mexicans in order to boost their political status, hiding behind a "You can't prove it's not true!" barrier.
No, I can't. But since it can't be proven either way any way, it makes zero sense to start banking on one over the other.
Same idea here. Seems that everything I grew up learning in school is now completely bunk. FDR ruined our country, the Native Americans are brushed aside, our country is Christian-founded, Thomas Jefferson is no longer important, and the Civil War was "the great war of Yankee aggression."
This country has writing on the wall, and it's definitely showing up in these textbooks.
Edit: See? There we go. FDR extended the depression. It's only been in the last decade that I've heard the guy did anything negative, while also seeing Reagan fellatio skyrocketing.
thrustbucket
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[quote name='JolietJake']I think the difference is that what conservatives see as liberalism in education, liberals see simply as the truth. Concerning history, conservatives don't seem to enjoy discussing things like the treatment of Native Americans by settlers for example. Conservatives certainly have a different view of sociology. When i went with my sociology class to help out at a homeless shelter we were told none of the Christian schools in the area ever came to help out. I won't even touch the irony in that.[/QUOTE]
One person's truth is always another persons propaganda. Such is the case with history, pretty much all the time; especially when it's events beyond anyone's lifetime.
Your homeless shelter anecdote is cute, but has no irony, unfortunately. I wager that your publicly funded university would never help out in a church-run charity or homeless shelter, even if invited.
Many churches won't touch a publicly funded "charity" like that, simply because of how corrosive state-run "charities" can get towards religion. For example, often they will be accused of "preaching" or trying to mix church and state. It's not worth it. That's like saying restaurants are assholes for throwing their leftovers away every night and not taking it to the shelters, when there is very good (imo sad) reason they don't (lawsuits from someone getting sick).
Churches have their own homeless shelters, run their own charities, and let's not forget are the largest and most responsive private contributors to disaster aid. Liberalism demands they remain separate, even where it hurts.
One person's truth is always another persons propaganda. Such is the case with history, pretty much all the time; especially when it's events beyond anyone's lifetime.
Your homeless shelter anecdote is cute, but has no irony, unfortunately. I wager that your publicly funded university would never help out in a church-run charity or homeless shelter, even if invited.
Many churches won't touch a publicly funded "charity" like that, simply because of how corrosive state-run "charities" can get towards religion. For example, often they will be accused of "preaching" or trying to mix church and state. It's not worth it. That's like saying restaurants are assholes for throwing their leftovers away every night and not taking it to the shelters, when there is very good (imo sad) reason they don't (lawsuits from someone getting sick).
Churches have their own homeless shelters, run their own charities, and let's not forget are the largest and most responsive private contributors to disaster aid. Liberalism demands they remain separate, even where it hurts.
JolietJake
Banned
[quote name='Endaar']Strell, when one of your earlier posts quotes me saying "world is SUPER black and white," when in fact I said nothing of the sort, that would be misquoting. Your whole "LOL@" post covers the mischaracterizing.
mykevermin, again I'm not trying to discuss racism one way or another. I take issue with a textbook (presumably) trying to generate discussion with with a statement that biases that discussion. My gripe has nothing to do with the topic and everything to do with the presentation.
Maybe so, but that cuts both ways. Liberals don't seem to enjoy discussing how FDR's policies extended the great depression, for example.
Endaar[/QUOTE]
FDR's policies during the great depression have not had the impact on American culture or ideals that early American history has.
Besides that, it's easier to debate the effects of government policy than the way an entire people were treated by another group of people.
mykevermin, again I'm not trying to discuss racism one way or another. I take issue with a textbook (presumably) trying to generate discussion with with a statement that biases that discussion. My gripe has nothing to do with the topic and everything to do with the presentation.
Maybe so, but that cuts both ways. Liberals don't seem to enjoy discussing how FDR's policies extended the great depression, for example.
Endaar[/QUOTE]
FDR's policies during the great depression have not had the impact on American culture or ideals that early American history has.
Besides that, it's easier to debate the effects of government policy than the way an entire people were treated by another group of people.
JolietJake
Banned
[quote name='thrustbucket']One person's truth is always another persons propaganda. Such is the case with history, pretty much all the time; especially when it's events beyond anyone's lifetime.
Your homeless shelter anecdote is cute, but has no irony, unfortunately. I wager that your publicly funded university would never help out in a church-run charity or homeless shelter, even if invited.
Many churches won't touch a publicly funded "charity" like that, simply because of how corrosive state-run "charities" can get towards religion. For example, often they will be accused of "preaching" or trying to mix church and state. It's not worth it. That's like saying restaurants are assholes for throwing their leftovers away every night and not taking it to the shelters, when there is very good (imo sad) reason they don't (lawsuits from someone getting sick).
Churches have their own homeless shelters, run their own charities, and let's not forget are the largest and most responsive private contributors to disaster aid. Liberalism demands they remain separate, even where it hurts.[/QUOTE]
Aaannnnd you'd be wrong.
I left this out solely because i wanted to see reactions, but the shelter is run by a church group.
That's the irony you see, a Christian charity, where even so-called "Christian" schools won't take students to help out. The minister who runs the place told us that himself, i see no reason why he'd lie about it.
They had to get help from us liberal secular scumbags instead.
Your homeless shelter anecdote is cute, but has no irony, unfortunately. I wager that your publicly funded university would never help out in a church-run charity or homeless shelter, even if invited.
Many churches won't touch a publicly funded "charity" like that, simply because of how corrosive state-run "charities" can get towards religion. For example, often they will be accused of "preaching" or trying to mix church and state. It's not worth it. That's like saying restaurants are assholes for throwing their leftovers away every night and not taking it to the shelters, when there is very good (imo sad) reason they don't (lawsuits from someone getting sick).
Churches have their own homeless shelters, run their own charities, and let's not forget are the largest and most responsive private contributors to disaster aid. Liberalism demands they remain separate, even where it hurts.[/QUOTE]
Aaannnnd you'd be wrong.
I left this out solely because i wanted to see reactions, but the shelter is run by a church group.That's the irony you see, a Christian charity, where even so-called "Christian" schools won't take students to help out. The minister who runs the place told us that himself, i see no reason why he'd lie about it.
They had to get help from us liberal secular scumbags instead.
mykevermin
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[quote name='Endaar']mykevermin, again I'm not trying to discuss racism one way or another. I take issue with a textbook (presumably) trying to generate discussion with with a statement that biases that discussion. My gripe has nothing to do with the topic and everything to do with the presentation.[/QUOTE]
right, I get that. my point is that institutional racism is as real as the nose on your face. how is treating the real as real biased? moreover, you're parsing words that achieve no genuine goal in changing the meaning of the question.
EDIT: I'd like to take this opportunity to ask thrustbucket if everything is ok. your posts have been effortless, banal stabs approaching awful the past week or so. we're all friends here, so if you need an intervention or like a goody bag, we'll all chip in.
right, I get that. my point is that institutional racism is as real as the nose on your face. how is treating the real as real biased? moreover, you're parsing words that achieve no genuine goal in changing the meaning of the question.
EDIT: I'd like to take this opportunity to ask thrustbucket if everything is ok. your posts have been effortless, banal stabs approaching awful the past week or so. we're all friends here, so if you need an intervention or like a goody bag, we'll all chip in.
thrustbucket
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[quote name='JolietJake']Aaannnnd you'd be wrong. I left this out solely because i wanted to see reactions, but the shelter is run by a church group.
That's the irony you see, a Christian charity, where even so-called "Christian" schools won't take students to help out. The minister who runs the place told us that himself, i see no reason why he'd lie about it.
They had to get help from us liberal secular scumbags instead.[/QUOTE]
Oh shit, you got me. I feel so foolish now! Woe is me.......
I had wondered why you would be talking about irony, other than just riding the standard stale and predictable anti-religious wave through this forum....
Oh well, can't be right all the time. Even if the rest of my post is.
I left this out solely because i wanted to see reactions, but the shelter is run by a church group.That's the irony you see, a Christian charity, where even so-called "Christian" schools won't take students to help out. The minister who runs the place told us that himself, i see no reason why he'd lie about it.
They had to get help from us liberal secular scumbags instead.
[/QUOTE]Oh shit, you got me. I feel so foolish now! Woe is me.......
I had wondered why you would be talking about irony, other than just riding the standard stale and predictable anti-religious wave through this forum....
Oh well, can't be right all the time. Even if the rest of my post is.
[quote name='mykevermin']
EDIT: I'd like to take this opportunity to ask thrustbucket if everything is ok. your posts have been effortless, banal stabs approaching awful the past week or so. we're all friends here, so if you need an intervention or like a goody bag, we'll all chip in.[/QUOTE]
Past week or so? More like past 6 months or so. I've never agreed with much of anything he's every posted here, and never much respected him to be blunt. But his posts took a turn for the worst a few months ago and have generally lacked any hint of substance beyond just touting typical anti-government, anti-liberal, anti-intellectual non-sense.
He used to at least make some effort to articulate his views etc., now you can pretty much predict his typical talking point from the thread title and know more or less what he said when you see his name as the last reply.
EDIT: I'd like to take this opportunity to ask thrustbucket if everything is ok. your posts have been effortless, banal stabs approaching awful the past week or so. we're all friends here, so if you need an intervention or like a goody bag, we'll all chip in.[/QUOTE]
Past week or so? More like past 6 months or so. I've never agreed with much of anything he's every posted here, and never much respected him to be blunt. But his posts took a turn for the worst a few months ago and have generally lacked any hint of substance beyond just touting typical anti-government, anti-liberal, anti-intellectual non-sense.
He used to at least make some effort to articulate his views etc., now you can pretty much predict his typical talking point from the thread title and know more or less what he said when you see his name as the last reply.
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No, I'm not implying anything. It's just rather comical that in a political discussion forum, a news article gets posted and most of the thread is simply bashing conservatives without actually discussing the validity (or lack thereof) of the changes made. If that's the way things normally are, then I'll stop wasting my time and let you guys go back to bashing those of us on the right.
I'd post more but I'm off to have a politically incorrect steak dinner.
Endaar
The Crotch
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Alright, since we're all a-havin' it out with each-other... know who I'm disappointed in lately?
Have you even seen that mother
er anywhere in the last few months? What a bastard!
Have you even seen that mother
er anywhere in the last few months? What a bastard!
JolietJake
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[quote name='thrustbucket']Oh shit, you got me. I feel so foolish now! Woe is me.......
I had wondered why you would be talking about irony, other than just riding the standard stale and predictable anti-religious wave through this forum....
Oh well, can't be right all the time. Even if the rest of my post is.[/QUOTE]
Oh i'm still surfing the wave like Tom Blake, but i wanted to see the knee jerk reaction that you or anyone else would have. I guess your point about churches not touching public charities is true, i have no idea really. They should be able to help people out without preaching, but that's their prerogative.
I had wondered why you would be talking about irony, other than just riding the standard stale and predictable anti-religious wave through this forum....
Oh well, can't be right all the time. Even if the rest of my post is.
[/QUOTE]Oh i'm still surfing the wave like Tom Blake, but i wanted to see the knee jerk reaction that you or anyone else would have. I guess your point about churches not touching public charities is true, i have no idea really. They should be able to help people out without preaching, but that's their prerogative.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States
The country was 78.5% Christian in 2007 according to a Pew study. It's not about values, it's just about demographic make up IMO, when people call the US a christian nation.
The country was 78.5% Christian in 2007 according to a Pew study. It's not about values, it's just about demographic make up IMO, when people call the US a christian nation.
fatherofcaitlyn
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[quote name='IRHari']I hear this a lot from the Beckites on this forum, so before the conservatives leave (empty threat), could someone explain to me what makes this a 'Christian' nation? What values does America have that are uniquely Christian?[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure the Christian god let us defeat the British.
I'm pretty sure the Christian god let us defeat the British.
Feeding the Abscess
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[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']I'm pretty sure the Christian god let us defeat the British.[/QUOTE]
Hail the god of America! (NSFW)
Hail the god of America! (NSFW)
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The Crotch
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Feeding the Abscess
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There's authorization? Huh. Found it with an image search, came up fine for me. I'll replace it with a link that doesn't require authorization.
[quote name='IRHari']I hear this a lot from the Beckites on this forum, so before the conservatives leave (empty threat), could someone explain to me what makes this a 'Christian' nation? What values does America have that are uniquely Christian?[/QUOTE]
The irony here is that even "Christian" values are not uniquely, or originally Christian.
We should be studying the Greek influences on our country's philosophical origin, not magical ghost worship.
The irony here is that even "Christian" values are not uniquely, or originally Christian.
We should be studying the Greek influences on our country's philosophical origin, not magical ghost worship.
depascal22
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[quote name='Endaar']No, I'm not implying anything. It's just rather comical that in a political discussion forum, a news article gets posted and most of the thread is simply bashing conservatives without actually discussing the validity (or lack thereof) of the changes made. If that's the way things normally are, then I'll stop wasting my time and let you guys go back to bashing those of us on the right.
I'd post more but I'm off to have a politically incorrect steak dinner.
Endaar[/QUOTE]
Why do you keep saying that everyone is anti-religious? Alot of us have respect for religion but find the hypocricy (sp?) of religious leaders to be apalling.
Anytime one of us says that the Catholic Church was in the wrong for coddling pedophiles, you counter that we're anti-religious so our opinions don't matter.
We could point out the folly of taking the Bible literally when it comes to certain issues (but not others like turn the other cheek) but you just claim we're anti-religious so it doesn't matter.
Now we have this big textbook issue and conservatives want to pretend that it's all good because it's a good counter-balance to all the liberal propaganda that gets taught in school. What sense does that make?
You've closed off the argument to everyone but religious conservatives because you claim that education has left you out. How then do you explain that the majority of America leans just to the right of center? Wouldn't a brainwashed populace be yearning for socialism in all aspects of life?
I'd post more but I'm off to have a politically incorrect steak dinner.
Endaar[/QUOTE]
Why do you keep saying that everyone is anti-religious? Alot of us have respect for religion but find the hypocricy (sp?) of religious leaders to be apalling.
Anytime one of us says that the Catholic Church was in the wrong for coddling pedophiles, you counter that we're anti-religious so our opinions don't matter.
We could point out the folly of taking the Bible literally when it comes to certain issues (but not others like turn the other cheek) but you just claim we're anti-religious so it doesn't matter.
Now we have this big textbook issue and conservatives want to pretend that it's all good because it's a good counter-balance to all the liberal propaganda that gets taught in school. What sense does that make?
You've closed off the argument to everyone but religious conservatives because you claim that education has left you out. How then do you explain that the majority of America leans just to the right of center? Wouldn't a brainwashed populace be yearning for socialism in all aspects of life?
[quote name='depascal22']Why do you keep saying that everyone is anti-religious? Alot of us have respect for religion but find the hypocricy (sp?) of religious leaders to be apalling.
Anytime one of us says that the Catholic Church was in the wrong for coddling pedophiles, you counter that we're anti-religious so our opinions don't matter.
We could point out the folly of taking the Bible literally when it comes to certain issues (but not others like turn the other cheek) but you just claim we're anti-religious so it doesn't matter.
Now we have this big textbook issue and conservatives want to pretend that it's all good because it's a good counter-balance to all the liberal propaganda that gets taught in school. What sense does that make?
You've closed off the argument to everyone but religious conservatives because you claim that education has left you out. How then do you explain that the majority of America leans just to the right of center? Wouldn't a brainwashed populace be yearning for socialism in all aspects of life?[/QUOTE]
Uh, yeah...you must have me confused with someone else. I haven't posted anything even remotely like what you're attributing to me.
Endaar
Anytime one of us says that the Catholic Church was in the wrong for coddling pedophiles, you counter that we're anti-religious so our opinions don't matter.
We could point out the folly of taking the Bible literally when it comes to certain issues (but not others like turn the other cheek) but you just claim we're anti-religious so it doesn't matter.
Now we have this big textbook issue and conservatives want to pretend that it's all good because it's a good counter-balance to all the liberal propaganda that gets taught in school. What sense does that make?
You've closed off the argument to everyone but religious conservatives because you claim that education has left you out. How then do you explain that the majority of America leans just to the right of center? Wouldn't a brainwashed populace be yearning for socialism in all aspects of life?[/QUOTE]
Uh, yeah...you must have me confused with someone else. I haven't posted anything even remotely like what you're attributing to me.
Endaar
fatherofcaitlyn
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[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']Hail the god of America! (NSFW)
[/QUOTE]
How are pictures of my uncle NSFW?
How are pictures of my uncle NSFW?
The Crotch
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[quote name='Endaar']Uh, yeah...you must have me confused with someone else. I haven't posted anything even remotely like what you're attributing to me.
Endaar[/QUOTE]
Maybe not, but you appear to be channeling the spirit of HotShotX somethin' awful, komrade...
Endaar[/QUOTE]
Maybe not, but you appear to be channeling the spirit of HotShotX somethin' awful, komrade...
JolietJake
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Your uncle has tits?
JolietJake
Banned
Woosh!
fatherofcaitlyn
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[quote name='JolietJake']Your uncle has tits?[/QUOTE]
A lot of my uncles have weight issues. So, yes.
A lot of my uncles have weight issues. So, yes.
The Crotch
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[quote name='JolietJake'] Woosh![/QUOTE]
I believe you mean, "~Woosh!"
Woosh![/QUOTE]I believe you mean, "~Woosh!"
JolietJake
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Ah yes.
~Woosh!
~Woosh!
elprincipe
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[quote name='Endaar']That our rights come from God, and not the state.[/QUOTE]
No, our rights come from nature, not from God or (even worse) the state.
No, our rights come from nature, not from God or (even worse) the state.
But really they just come from the state (which is ideally run by the people) since rights are concepts, concepts come from people, and states are what people use to govern themselves. Nature (other than people) isn't capable of that and gods are either nonexistent or unobservable.
I mean I could say rights come from God or nature or that they come from sentient lollipops, it wouldn't make any difference. I guess the important part is believing that certain rights are untouchable.
I mean I could say rights come from God or nature or that they come from sentient lollipops, it wouldn't make any difference. I guess the important part is believing that certain rights are untouchable.
[quote name='elprincipe']No, our rights come from nature, not from God or (even worse) the state.[/QUOTE]
Well, the Declaration of Independance speaks of the "laws of Nature and of Nature's God," so I think either intepretation is reasonable. The point being that since our rights do not come from man, man cannot take them away.
Endaar
Well, the Declaration of Independance speaks of the "laws of Nature and of Nature's God," so I think either intepretation is reasonable. The point being that since our rights do not come from man, man cannot take them away.
Endaar
JolietJake
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If our rights come from god then why did it take acts of men for everyone in the country to have said rights?
elprincipe
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[quote name='JolietJake']If our rights come from god then why did it take acts of men for everyone in the country to have said rights?[/QUOTE]
It didn't. Before those acts of men, their rights were being violated, but they still had them.
It didn't. Before those acts of men, their rights were being violated, but they still had them.
bread's done