UMD is dead, Blu Ray is next

[quote name='gizmogc']Is a VHS not a proprietary format? It can only be used in a VHS player and it won the cassette wars.

While other companies support Blu Ray (Dell and the other mentioned) that does not mean it will succeed. With Sony loosing $300 on every PS3 sold, they are taking a major hit hoping BR catches on. If Blu Ray fails...Sony is in deep shit. They WILL push this, which is a good thing because prices of BR and HD discs will come down to compete.

Now I need to search CL for a used PS3...some kid is bound to be pissed he got a PS3 and not a Wii.[/QUOTE]

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the PS3 isn't fucked if Blu Ray fails. In a worst case scenario, people stop making Blu Ray players and HD wins the format wars. What happens then is the PS3 becomes the only thing that is manufactured still using Blu Ray technology. So what? Nintendo has been selling tons of games over the past 20 years on "Nintendo only" formats. And sure, developers would take a hit from the more expensive format, but by the time it'll take HD to win decisively it'll be much cheaper to make Blu Ray discs. So the PS3 takes a slight hit in this regard, but it's relatively minor compared to the huge rise in development costs.

As for Sony themselves, they're not in deep shit even if Blu Ray loses out. They've lost with their memory stick to SD cards, mini discs to MP3 players, Beta to VHS and UMD to common sense and have been fine. The simple fact of the matter is that throughout history, when one part of Sony's business is down, other parts are up. Take this year for example. Sony set records by being the company that has released the most films that have ever placed number 1 with opening weekend grosses in a single year, ever. Furthermore as more and more people enter into the HD era, Sony's television manufacturing division is bound to be seeing some huge profits in the next few years.

Even if both the PS3 and Blu Ray are huge failures, Sony won't be crippled by cutting them out of their business. The games and "Blu Ray" division of Sony are not the only crux of Sony's business. Furthermore, does anyone really think the PS3 won't sell?
 
[quote name='gizmogc']Dude, its a discussion. If anyone thinks the format war will end in the next few months they are idiots. This will be going on for a while. The thread should really say "BetaMax Failed, MiniDisc Failed, UMD Failed, Will Blu Ray fail"?[/quote] Sony did not make nor invent Blu-ray.


The following studios are releasing content on Blu-ray:

Buena Vista
Disney
Fox
Lionsgate
MGM
New Line Cinema
Paramount
Sony
Warner Bros

The following studios are NOT releasing content on Blu-ray:

Focus Features
Universal
Weinstein


The following studios are releasing content on HD-DVD:

Universal
New Line Cinema
Warner
Paramount
Image
Rhino
The Weinstein Company

The following studios are NOT releasing content on HD-DVD:

Disney (including Touchstone, Miramax)
Sony Picture (including MGM/Columbia Tristar)
20th Century Fox


That list not releasing for HD-DVD seems almost like a killer blow.


Who cares who wins the high definition format war as long as we as consumers have the option to finally purchase high definition content instead of only being able to watch it on television?

It would be nice to have an all in one solution since the prices are so high, but with every new piece of technology, the prices will drop. Thus making the PS3 or Xbox as a HD format wars player not an issue. DVD players are so cheap now, the Playstation 2 argument that was initially touted about it being able to play DVD is no longer a consideration. The same will eventually happen, but who knows how long it will take.
 
[quote name='gizmogc']Is a VHS not a proprietary format? It can only be used in a VHS player and it won the cassette wars.

While other companies support Blu Ray (Dell and the other mentioned) that does not mean it will succeed. With Sony loosing $300 on every PS3 sold, they are taking a major hit hoping BR catches on. If Blu Ray fails...Sony is in deep shit. They WILL push this, which is a good thing because prices of BR and HD discs will come down to compete.

Now I need to search CL for a used PS3...some kid is bound to be pissed he got a PS3 and not a Wii.[/QUOTE]

You bring up a good point actually. If Blu-Ray fails it will be a major hit to Sony. Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying its going to fail but they are loosing alot of money with each console sold. Plus there is only 30% of homes in USA with HDTVs. So think about this, why buy a Blu-Ray player or a HD-DVD player for that matter and no HDTV? DVD are so dirt cheap right now and they seem to be dropping still. I've seen ads where you can get 2-3 DVDs for just 10 bucks.
 
[quote name='b3b0p']Sony did not make nor invent Blu-ray.[/QUOTE]

Um yes they did.

The nine companies that introduced Blu-Ray in 2002 were Matsushita, Pioneer, Phillips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, Samsung, and Sony. Sony is largely seen as the big champion of it though simply because of their integration of it with both their Vaio laptops and the PS3.

And also the list not releasing HD-DVDs is not a killer blow. Disney, Fox, and Paramount supported only DIVX when that format first hit store shelves.
 
[quote name='b3b0p']Sony did not make nor invent Blu-ray.


The following studios are releasing content on Blu-ray:

Buena Vista
Disney
Fox
Lionsgate
MGM
New Line Cinema
Paramount
Sony
Warner Bros

The following studios are NOT releasing content on Blu-ray:

Focus Features
Universal
Weinstein


The following studios are releasing content on HD-DVD:

Universal
New Line Cinema
Warner
Paramount
Image
Rhino
The Weinstein Company

The following studios are NOT releasing content on HD-DVD:

Disney (including Touchstone, Miramax)
Sony Picture (including MGM/Columbia Tristar)
20th Century Fox


That list not releasing for HD-DVD seems almost like a killer blow.


Who cares who wins the high definition format war as long as we as consumers have the option to finally purchase high definition content instead of only being able to watch it on television?

It would be nice to have an all in one solution since the prices are so high, but with every new piece of technology, the prices will drop. Thus making the PS3 or Xbox as a HD format wars player not an issue. DVD players are so cheap now, the Playstation 2 argument that was initially touted about it being able to play DVD is no longer a consideration. The same will eventually happen, but who knows how long it will take.[/QUOTE]


The list has been posted MANY MANY MANY times. Yes, BR has more studio support. BR is getting its ass handed to it in softare sales from HD. Studio support means nothing when no one is buying discs.
 
[quote name='furyk']Um yes they did.

The nine companies that introduced Blu-Ray in 2002 were Matsushita, Pioneer, Phillips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, Samsung, and Sony. Sony is largely seen as the big champion of it though simply because of their integration of it with both their Vaio laptops and the PS3.[/QUOTE]

The main reason why BR has alot of studio support is because of Sony's PS3. How many PS2 systems have been sold worldwide? Imagine if Sony walked into you're studio and said 'Look at the PS2 sales. PS3 will be like that. We will have BR inside every PS3. Why not release movies for us? We are guaranteed to have x many B players in homes. They are bound to watch movies!'. Thats what happened. Looking at the numbers I would support BR too! Disney and Fox are gonna be the assholes about the war. LG and a few other studios have expressed interest in HD and we may eventually see them.

LionsGate was rumored to pull out of the BR camp and go neutral due to very poor BR sales. I think they will last a bit longer just to see if the PS3 helps out sales (which it will, duh). How much is anyones guess. Some people are going crazy and buying 10-20 movies. Some will never watch past the Talledega nights.

Sony has a very steep uphill battle for BR to succeed. Not only do they loose $300 for every PS3 sold, they are NOT #1 this generation so far. Its gonna be interesting to see what Sony does next year to help the PS3 reach its PS2 status. So far announced games are nothing special. Nintendo still has Super Smash Bros, Mario Galaxy, Metroid announced. MS has Halo 3. Sony, show us some damn games!
 
[quote name='gizmogc']The list has been posted MANY MANY MANY times. Yes, BR has more studio support. BR is getting its ass handed to it in softare sales from HD. Studio support means nothing when no one is buying discs.[/quote]

Sorry, the thread is long.
 
[quote name='gizmogc']What other things in the world use Blu Ray? Just PS3 and Blu Ray players. To ME, thats a proprietary format. I am forced to buy into Blu Ray to play PS3 games. The Xbox 360 uses standard DVDs, something the PS2 and Xbox had used a generation before. As of RIGHT now, there is no features to Blu Ray that a normal DVD can not hold. All this extra space just sits there. Will developers use it? Maybe. But until then, you just paid a shit load of extra money for 'potential'.[/quote]

The fact that Blu-ray is widely used in the PS3, Blu-ray players, and some computers means it is not proprietary.

And for the "potential" thing. I believe everyone who buys a console on day 1 pays for "potential". Unless you want to convince me that a handful of launch titles is worth the price of admission. People buy a console on day one hoping to earn that value back over the next 4-5 years.

I still wonder why Sony continues to do this over and over again. While MiniDisc is popular in other country's, its not to the extent Sony would have wanted. MD was a failed concept in America. I was young, I bought a MD player/recorder before MP3 players hit the market (MP3 CD Players were still like $250). Should we still call the Sega Master System a success because its popular in Brazil? Beta Died. Mini Disc Died. UMD Died. Blu Ray...not so sure. It has its Sony followers and studio support, but it still has poor sales. It WILL stick around for a while, or could even become the standard. Its not a big deal with me because I will be buying a PS3 because I realize this.
Click to expand...


I agree that all those formats were a mistake. But you seem to be conveniently forgetting DVDs and CDs for the sake of your argument.

[quote name='gizmogc']The list has been posted MANY MANY MANY times. Yes, BR has more studio support. BR is getting its ass handed to it in softare sales from HD. Studio support means nothing when no one is buying discs.[/QUOTE]

True. But it will take more than a few months of sales to determine the winner. And do you know the exact sales figures? I know HD is winning, but I don't think I would go so far as to say they are getting their ass handed to them. I also believe that sales will pick up once PS3s are readily available. Before the launch of the PS3, Blu-ray players were twice that of HD-DVD players, so it is no wonder they were selling poorly. Many were probably waiting for the PS3 to be released before jumping to the next format.
 
[quote name='furyk']Um yes they did.

The nine companies that introduced Blu-Ray in 2002 were Matsushita, Pioneer, Phillips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, Samsung, and Sony. Sony is largely seen as the big champion of it though simply because of their integration of it with both their Vaio laptops and the PS3.

And also the list not releasing HD-DVDs is not a killer blow. Disney, Fox, and Paramount supported only DIVX when that format first hit store shelves.[/quote]
Can you share where it is acknowledged that Sony invented the Blu-ray format? Even on Sony's website, they don't admit to the invention of Blu-ray. Just that they helped develop it.
 
[quote name='gizmogc'] Sony, show us some damn games![/QUOTE]

Which is why I held up on buying a PS3 is because not enough games for me to drop 500 bucks or 600 bucks.
 
[quote name='gizmogc']Sony has a very steep uphill battle for BR to succeed. Not only do they loose $300 for every PS3 sold, they are NOT #1 this generation so far. Its gonna be interesting to see what Sony does next year to help the PS3 reach its PS2 status. So far announced games are nothing special. Nintendo still has Super Smash Bros, Mario Galaxy, Metroid announced. MS has Halo 3. Sony, show us some damn games![/QUOTE]

You do realize that you listed one game for 360. Here are some upcoming PS3 games:

WarHawk
Lair
Heavenly Sword
MotorStorm
Ninja Gaiden: Sigma
White Knight Story (this looks pretty promising)

Then the big guns:
MGS4
DMC4
FFXIII (I dont expect this for a while)
FFXIII Versus
GT 5
GTA Next-gen (not sure what number they are on)
Killzone

These haven't been announced, but are more than likely to come out:
GoW 3
Kingdom Hearts 3
Next Ico Team game
Socom Next-Gen
ZOE3 (doubtful, but I am still wishing)
 
Sony did NOT invent Blu-ray. It is a collaborative effort with Sony involved. Sony does have a lot to gain from Blu-ray winning (as do the rest of the companies), but they did not invent it. It is similar to DVDs and CDs. The difference is, Sony is being much more aggressive when pushing the format, that is all.
 
[quote name='dpatel']You do realize that you listed one game for 360. Here are some upcoming PS3 games:

WarHawk
Lair
Heavenly Sword
MotorStorm
Ninja Gaiden: Sigma
White Knight Story (this looks pretty promising)

Then the big guns:
MGS4
DMC4
FFXIII (I dont expect this for a while)
FFXIII Versus
GT 5
GTA Next-gen (not sure what number they are on)
Killzone

These haven't been announced, but are more than likely to come out:
GoW 3
Kingdom Hearts 3
Next Ico Team game
Socom Next-Gen
ZOE3 (doubtful, but I am still wishing)[/QUOTE]

From my understanding Kingdom Hearts 3 might not be on a playstation console this time around. Also GoW2 isn't even out yet how do you get GoW3?
 
[quote name='tbolt30']From my understanding Kingdom Hearts 3 might not be on a playstation console this time around. Also GoW2 isn't even out yet how do you get GoW3?[/QUOTE]

Where did you hear that about Kingdom Hearts?

And GoW is a first party title and is a huge seller. Like I said, it isn't guaranteed, but I think everyone would be surprised if they didn't release one.

Also, check this interview:
http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?fs=1&id=3455

And where are you getting your HD-DVD vs Blu-ray sales info?

Also, I was just making a quick list off the top of my head. You couldn't seem to come with any PS3 games, yet only listed one 360 game and 3 Wii games, and somehow that was enough to satisfy you.
 
[quote name='dpatel']You do realize that you listed one game for 360. Here are some upcoming PS3 games:

WarHawk
Lair
Heavenly Sword
MotorStorm
Ninja Gaiden: Sigma
White Knight Story (this looks pretty promising)

Then the big guns:
MGS4
DMC4
FFXIII (I dont expect this for a while)
FFXIII Versus
GT 5
GTA Next-gen (not sure what number they are on)
Killzone

These haven't been announced, but are more than likely to come out:
GoW 3
Kingdom Hearts 3
Next Ico Team game
Socom Next-Gen
ZOE3 (doubtful, but I am still wishing)[/QUOTE]

To be honest with you, the ONLY game that I have any interest in is DMC4. I never cared for the Metal gear series, nor the 3D FF's. Hate GTA. So not a whole lot for me sadly.
 
[quote name='dpatel']And where are you getting your HD-DVD vs Blu-ray sales info?

Also, I was just making a quick list off the top of my head. You couldn't seem to come with any PS3 games, yet only listed one 360 game and 3 Wii games, and somehow that was enough to satisfy you.[/QUOTE]

Amazon.com sales rank. Most BR fanboys fail to acknowledge that as true rankings, but it does show how far HD outsells BR. http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/
But like I said, HD camp takes it seriously while the BR camp insists that the HD camp is paying Amazon to put those sales rankings.

As per only listing 1 360 game and 3 Wii games, they just popped in my head. I don't list off every game possible that interests me.
 
[quote name='gizmogc']To be honest with you, the ONLY game that I have any interest in is DMC4. I never cared for the Metal gear series, nor the 3D FF's. Hate GTA. So not a whole lot for me sadly.[/QUOTE]

No problem man. I understand that it is your opinion. I was just showing you some of the games so far, since you had trouble thinking of any. It's not as if Sony hasn't shown us games, right? It's just that they don't appeal to you, which is completely different. So, saying Sony has no games, based on your personal preference is a somewhat poor basis for an argument. Just my opinion.
 
[quote name='gizmogc']Amazon.com sales rank. Most BR fanboys fail to acknowledge that as true rankings, but it does show how far HD outsells BR. http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/
But like I said, HD camp takes it seriously while the BR camp insists that the HD camp is paying Amazon to put those sales rankings.

As per only listing 1 360 game and 3 Wii games, they just popped in my head. I don't list off every game possible that interests me.[/QUOTE]

I know that Blu-ray is being sold. I wouldn't consider it having their asses handed to them. But like I said, this is also the result of Blu-ray players being twice that of HD-DVD players, so, given that information, the sales are too bad at the moment. Neither are that great, and both still have a long way to go.

Personally, I am rooting for Blu-ray. I see no real advantages to HD-DVD winning.

Also, I don't recall anyone saying that Amazon was being paid by HD. That is a bit ridiculous.
 
[quote name='tbolt30']http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=71265

Here one of the sites I've seen it on but its also on IGN.[/QUOTE]

Yea, I figured it was that article. Kind of a poor basis, in my opinion. I really wouldn't mind if it wasn't on the PS3, but I would at least want it on a console. Would much prefer to play a game of that calibur on a big screen, rather than a portable.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Yea, I figured it was that article. Kind of a poor basis, in my opinion. I really wouldn't mind if it wasn't on the PS3, but I would at least want it on a console. Would much prefer to play a game of that calibur on a big screen, rather than a portable.[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying I didn't want it on a Sony console. I don't want it on a portable myself either. There still isn't enough reason for me to buy a PS3 with Kingdom Hearts 3 alone.
 
[quote name='tbolt30']I'm not saying I didn't want it on a Sony console. I don't want it on a portable myself either. There still isn't enough reason for me to buy a PS3 with Kingdom Hearts 3 alone.[/QUOTE]

Yea, I know you weren't saying that. Kingdom Hearts is a big reason for me, but there are also plenty of other games. But the article is just using the DQ9 announcement as a basis. I can see some correlation there, but we really need to hear an actual statement from the company. So far, they haven't hinted at all as to what console it is heading too. I hope it stays on the PS3, if not, at least the 360 or Wii. Would hate to see it go to the DS.
 
[quote name='tbolt30']This is crazy.... How many format are coming out now? lol[/QUOTE]

It's still too early to call. Granted it's only been out about a month and a half, but the HD-DVD player and the 360's download service seem to be living in harmony. That's part of the reason I didn't feel bad about the HD-DVD player...if you got in on the $160 deal it's a pretty worry-free investment. Even if HD-DVD is dead in 2 years, it's not like you shelled out a ton of cash for it.
 
[quote name='dpatel']No problem man. I understand that it is your opinion. I was just showing you some of the games so far, since you had trouble thinking of any. It's not as if Sony hasn't shown us games, right? It's just that they don't appeal to you, which is completely different. So, saying Sony has no games, based on your personal preference is a somewhat poor basis for an argument. Just my opinion.[/QUOTE]

Thats the thing with the games above. How many have solid release dates? We all know they will come out...but when? Might as well through Resident Evil 5 in the bunch. Looking at the release dates on GameFaqs.....only DMC4 appeals to me. To be honest again, ive never played more then 30 minutes of the p;ast 3 DMC games. (Though I enjoyed Chaos Legions, which is suppose to be a DMC clone). As far as BR is concerned...I'm hoping to find one soon at Game Rush. Wish all the credit I have I can nab a PS3 for $250 cash, which is fine with me.
 
[quote name='dpatel']I know that Blu-ray is being sold. I wouldn't consider it having their asses handed to them. But like I said, this is also the result of Blu-ray players being twice that of HD-DVD players, so, given that information, the sales are too bad at the moment. Neither are that great, and both still have a long way to go.

Personally, I am rooting for Blu-ray. I see no real advantages to HD-DVD winning.

Also, I don't recall anyone saying that Amazon was being paid by HD. That is a bit ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

Can I ask what are the advantages to BR besides mass storage? HD-DVD can stillhold 25-30 Gigs, which is fine with me. HD-DVD is the true successor to DVD, while Blu Ray is not. With less then a 1% of all media sales, both formats are obviously not succeeding.
 
[quote name='gizmogc']Can I ask what are the advantages to BR besides mass storage? HD-DVD can stillhold 25-30 Gigs, which is fine with me. HD-DVD is the true successor to DVD, while Blu Ray is not. With less then a 1% of all media sales, both formats are obviously not succeeding.[/QUOTE]

Plus alot of people on AVS forums who have both players are saying HD-DVD has superior PQ.
 
Both HD-DVD and Blu-ray have very similar functionality. If you were comparing the two from a technical standpoint, it would be difficult to choose one over the other. HD-DVD has less storage capacity but is cheaper. This price difference, combined with the fact that the PS3 only came out recently, is the main reason that HD-DVD sales have been stronger than Blu-ray sales. Of course, the price differential is only temporary.

It's in places like studio support where the differences come out. And the biggest advantage Blu-ray has, in my opinion, is its inclusion in the PS3. Assuming the PS3 doesn't totally tank, Sony has guaranteed a huge installed base of Blu-ray players. A lot of people are going to be buying PS3s to play games, but will decide to try out Blu-ray. The rebates included with every PS3 will help this. I know this is true, because that's what happened to me. I had little interest in buying an HD movie player before I got a PS3. But I knew I wanted a PS3, and since I had a Blu-ray player in that already, I figured that I would buy some movies. For people who are going to be buying a PS3 anyway (and this is a very large segment of people -- particularly in Japan) it makes no sense whatsoever to get a separate HD-DVD player.

[quote name='tbolt30']Plus alot of people on AVS forums who have both players are saying HD-DVD has superior PQ.[/QUOTE]
This is true with some of the early Blu-ray releases, but all of the reviews that I have read of recent discs seem to stress the fact that there is essentially no difference in picture quality.
 
[quote name='icruise']I was a big fan of Minidisc back in the day and had a number of players and recorders, but I think it's silly to compare them to the iPod in this way. Both MP3/AAC and ATRAC are lossy formats, but MP3 and ACC have the advantage in that you can increase the bitrate if you want. Plus, the iPod supports formats like AIFF and Apple lossless, which means that you don't lose anything compared to a CD. Unless I'm mistaken, the same can't be said for Minidisc.[/QUOTE]


Umm, uncompressed minidisc runs at around a variable 292KBPS. It sounds as good or better than CD and usually helps music by bringing out low and mid range where it would usually be more muted.

However, when you say you can't increase the bitrate, you are wrong: minidisc offers uncompressed, LP2, and LP4 [uncompressed being better than 320 kbps mp3, lp2 being better than 128 and 192 kbps mp3, and lp4 being slightly worse than 128 KBPS]

Compressed LP2 ATRAC reads at or aorund 192 KBPS but sounds better than standard mp3 at around 192 KBPS due to psychoacoustics and the nature of the codec itself.
 
[quote name='sarausagi']Umm, uncompressed minidisc runs at around a variable 292KBPS. It sounds as good or better than CD and usually helps music by bringing out low and mid range where it would usually be more muted.

However, when you say you can't increase the bitrate, you are wrong: minidisc offers uncompressed, LP2, and LP4 [uncompressed being better than 320 kbps mp3, lp2 being better than 128 and 192 kbps mp3, and lp4 being slightly worse than 128 KBPS]

Compressed LP2 ATRAC reads at or aorund 192 KBPS but sounds better than standard mp3 at around 192 KBPS due to psychoacoustics and the nature of the codec itself.[/QUOTE]

That hurt my head
 
[quote name='gizmogc']That hurt my head[/QUOTE]

Next I'll post about getting Japanese minidisc software to work on English Windows, and actually getting American players to enable Japanese text support! = )

I realize minidisc is complicated, therefore why it had no chance of going mainstream in the US.....

Still though...lots of big stores still have old MD equipment on clearance...no reason why anyone shouldn't give it a shot..if you're willing to buy an ipod shuffle to throw around at the gym..don't see why people can't do the same for MD..very versatile if you only need around 2 or 3 hours of music per day.
 
[quote name='gizmogc']Thats the thing with the games above. How many have solid release dates? We all know they will come out...but when? Might as well through Resident Evil 5 in the bunch. Looking at the release dates on GameFaqs.....only DMC4 appeals to me. To be honest again, ive never played more then 30 minutes of the p;ast 3 DMC games. (Though I enjoyed Chaos Legions, which is suppose to be a DMC clone). As far as BR is concerned...I'm hoping to find one soon at Game Rush. Wish all the credit I have I can nab a PS3 for $250 cash, which is fine with me.[/QUOTE]

None of them. Except maybe Motorstorm. But none of your games had a solid release date, so I didn't think it mattered.

[quote name='gizmogc']Can I ask what are the advantages to BR besides mass storage? HD-DVD can stillhold 25-30 Gigs, which is fine with me. HD-DVD is the true successor to DVD, while Blu Ray is not. With less then a 1% of all media sales, both formats are obviously not succeeding.[/QUOTE]


Only more storage? That is the main point of upgrading to a new format. HD-DVD really ONLY has more storage over DVD. So, if we are ONLY upgrading for storage, might as well do it right. Storage is a big selling point. Sure 25-30GBs might be fine now, but I think anyone can agree that it would be much smarter to have more, especially when the prices are about the same for the two (for the consumers). Like I said, there are no advantages to HD-DVD.

[quote name='tbolt30']Plus alot of people on AVS forums who have both players are saying HD-DVD has superior PQ.[/QUOTE]


Yea, I have heard that too. Blu-ray got off to a bad start. This had something to do with the fact that Blu-ray was using inferior codecs and was having trouble producing dual layer (meaning HD-DVD actually had about 5 GB more space at the time). These issues are really problems with production and not with the format. Not sure if they have been fixed yet, but I imagine they won't be permanent.
 
[quote name='sarausagi']Umm, uncompressed minidisc runs at around a variable 292KBPS. It sounds as good or better than CD and usually helps music by bringing out low and mid range where it would usually be more muted.
[/QUOTE]
I'll admit that I haven't used minidisc since Sony started connecting them to computers, so perhaps my knowledge of them is out of date. Is uncompressed actually a lossless format? Wouldn't that seriously limit the length of the recordings you could make, given the limited storage space on an MD?
 
[quote name='gizmogc']The main reason why BR has alot of studio support is because of Sony's PS3. How many PS2 systems have been sold worldwide? Imagine if Sony walked into you're studio and said 'Look at the PS2 sales. PS3 will be like that. We will have BR inside every PS3. Why not release movies for us? We are guaranteed to have x many B players in homes. They are bound to watch movies!'. Thats what happened. Looking at the numbers I would support BR too! Disney and Fox are gonna be the assholes about the war. LG and a few other studios have expressed interest in HD and we may eventually see them.
[/QUOTE]

No you're wrong. The REASON why FOX and Disney are so interested in Blu-Ray is the heavy copy protection it includes.
One of the big reasons I don't support Blu-Ray, them giving "House Of Flying Daggers" a subpar debut in res. quality that I'll have to pass and wait for who knows how long for an appropriate one. Apparently judging by reviews 25 gigs. at MPEG2 can't cut it to put out a beautiful pic so thanks Sony for fucking up the HD for one of my favorite films, especially a gorgeous one that could've been demo material if you wouldn't have clung to the life raft for so long of not wanting to pay MS to use the VC-1 codec. Also I don't like the heavy copy protection. Consider the concept of back-up's.
 
to everyone happy about these new formats just remember that every scratch and nick will damage the data stored that much more. You can beat the crap out a cd and it will still play usually. DVDs however get slight damage and you get skipping, audio problems and such. Dont give me this BS that you can rub a blu ray with iron wool and it will still play. the tighter data is compacted the more vulnerable it is. On DVD you would lose seconds to a scratch, with new formats you will lose minutes or entire segments of the movie and you will get scratches on them.....no matter how careful you are.
 
[quote name='MarkMark']to everyone happy about these new formats just remember that every scratch and nick will damage the data stored that much more. You can beat the crap out a cd and it will still play usually. DVDs however get slight damage and you get skipping, audio problems and such. Dont give me this BS that you can rub a blu ray with iron wool and it will still play. the tighter data is compacted the more vulnerable it is. On DVD you would lose seconds to a scratch, with new formats you will lose minutes or entire segments of the movie and you will get scratches on them.....no matter how careful you are.[/QUOTE]

Yea, it sucks, but all I can say is be careful. I would much prefer a superior format with more risk, than an inferior format. Only problem is when I am buying used games. Other than that, scratching isn't an issue for me.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']No you're wrong. The REASON why FOX and Disney are so interested in Blu-Ray is the heavy copy protection it includes.
One of the big reasons I don't support Blu-Ray, them giving "House Of Flying Daggers" a subpar debut in res. quality that I'll have to pass and wait for who knows how long for an appropriate one. Apparently judging by reviews 25 gigs. at MPEG2 can't cut it to put out a beautiful pic so thanks Sony for fucking up the HD for one of my favorite films, especially a gorgeous one that could've been demo material if you wouldn't have clung to the life raft for so long of not wanting to pay MS to use the VC-1 codec. Also I don't like the heavy copy protection. Consider the concept of back-up's.[/quote]

Can you enlighten us as to how the copy protection between the two formats is different? I was under the impression they were the same. Or has this already been mentioned?
 
There's the regular AACS layer that both have then Blu-Ray has an additional 2 layers. Keep in mind if you made a back-up of that disc it won't contain a watermark that the commercially produced discs contain and without the watermark your player will NOT play that disc.
 
First I find it funny to be talking about a video format war in a gaming forum. I don't understand why everyone compares Betamax and UMD to Blu-ray, this is not a Sony product. Blu-ray is a joint venture with several well known electronic companies, Sony just being one of them. Before the PS3 the best selling Blu-ray player was made by Samsung. With more electronic companies as well as more movie studio backing, I think Blu-ray will be alive longer than HD-DVD. Just my opinion, but remember one thing when it comes to betamax sony stood alone. Toshiba has a couple of partners, but for the most part (when it comes to stand alone players) Toshiba stands alone.
As far as which has better video quality, Sony finally got smart and are using better codecs. Now HD-DVD and Blu-ray both use the same formats. It's up to the studios to decide which format they use. Now it is easier and cheaper to make HD-DVDs because it only takes a few changes to the DVD pressing machines they have now to make a HD-DVD. Blu-ray on the other hand means a whole new pressing machine.
I also hear alot of people talk about movie downloads is the future. Movie downloads for Portable Media players is good, but for HD video that is not going to happen for a while. The current internet speeds make downloading HD material very hard. True HD video doesn't compress that well so 15 to 20 gig downloads would be the norm.
Let the criticisms begin.
 
[quote name='millrat1030']First I find it funny to be talking about a video format war in a gaming forum. I don't understand why everyone compares Betamax and UMD to Blu-ray, this is not a Sony product. Blu-ray is a joint venture with several well known electronic companies, Sony just being one of them. Before the PS3 the best selling Blu-ray player was made by Samsung. With more electronic companies as well as more movie studio backing, I think Blu-ray will be alive longer than HD-DVD. Just my opinion, but remember one thing when it comes to betamax sony stood alone. Toshiba has a couple of partners, but for the most part (when it comes to stand alone players) Toshiba stands alone.
As far as which has better video quality, Sony finally got smart and are using better codecs. Now HD-DVD and Blu-ray both use the same formats. It's up to the studios to decide which format they use. Now it is easier and cheaper to make HD-DVDs because it only takes a few changes to the DVD pressing machines they have now to make a HD-DVD. Blu-ray on the other hand means a whole new pressing machine.
I also hear alot of people talk about movie downloads is the future. Movie downloads for Portable Media players is good, but for HD video that is not going to happen for a while. The current internet speeds make downloading HD material very hard. True HD video doesn't compress that well so 15 to 20 gig downloads would be the norm.
Let the criticisms begin.[/QUOTE]

I think Digital Distrubition will happen eventually. But I do believe that it won't take over completely. Look at MP3s. They are completely practical. Fast download speeds, portable, good quality, and affordable. Yet CDs continue to sell. I think we will see the same with HD movies. Digital Downloads will be available, but they will coexist alongside Blu-ray/HD-DVD, whichever wins.
 
[quote name='dpatel']I think Digital Distrubition will happen eventually. But I do believe that it won't take over completely. Look at MP3s. They are completely practical. Fast download speeds, portable, good quality, and affordable. Yet CDs continue to sell. I think we will see the same with HD movies. Digital Downloads will be available, but they will coexist alongside Blu-ray/HD-DVD, whichever wins.[/QUOTE]

The question is though who are CDs selling to? I remember hearing on This Week in Tech that most people buying CDs are in their 30s-40s. Seemingly, the only time kids buy music these days is for a fucking ring tone. My guess is we're still six years or so away from digital distribution overtaking physical media in terms of sales. That is, of course, fact and not a complete guess I pulled out of my ass.
 
[quote name='furyk']The question is though who are CDs selling to? I remember hearing on This Week in Tech that most people buying CDs are in their 30s-40s. Seemingly, the only time kids buy music these days is for a fucking ring tone. My guess is we're still six years or so away from digital distribution overtaking physical media in terms of sales. That is, of course, fact and not a complete guess I pulled out of my ass.[/QUOTE]


Well, I'm 20 and buy CD's...

However, my ring tones are free: I make them myself .
 
I'm also in my 20s and buy CDs. But, for the most part, most people my age don't buy CDs any more. I prefer to have something tangible so I can build a collection. That's just me though.
 
[quote name='dpatel']I'm also in my 20s and buy CDs. But, for the most part, most people my age don't buy CDs any more. I prefer to have something tangible so I can build a collection. That's just me though.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, there's something mp3's don't provide that real CD's don't..

Sorry people..but nothing beats finding the new CD you wanted under the tree....if a $10 itunes card makes you happy though..so be it..
 
Well I'm 22, and I listen almost strictly to NPR. Do I think anyone else my age listens to public radio in large chunks? Nope :)

A decent chunk of people our age don't download music and still buy CDs, but a rather large segment only downloads these days despite the loss of quality.
 
The only radio I listen to is NPR, oldies, and the occasional sports game.

I buy CDs heavily, in the past 3 weeks, I've gone on a spree and bought more than 200 CDs. I'm certain I have more than a 1000 and I'm not happy with that much.

Then again, I'm a music enthusiast, more so than video games.

I'll take a new Scott Walker album over Mario Galaxy any day.

Oh, I'm 22.
 
[quote name='gizmogc']To be honest with you, the ONLY game that I have any interest in is DMC4. I never cared for the Metal gear series, nor the 3D FF's. Hate GTA. So not a whole lot for me sadly.[/QUOTE]To be honest, you could list every Wii game in development, and the only ones I have interest in are Trauma Center and Smash Brothers. Just because one person has that opinion doesn't mean their whole line-up is shit.
 
[quote name='TimPV3']To be honest, you could list every Wii game in development, and the only ones I have interest in are Trauma Center and Smash Brothers. Just because one person has that opinion doesn't mean their whole line-up is shit.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. It really sounds as if he is grasping for reasons. I really don't find too many exclusives on the 360 that appeal to me at the moment (except maybe a few). I won't deny that it is a solid system with probably the best line-up at this time.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc

This shows (at the bottom) that blue ray is indeed a better format, but that doesent mean jack (vhs-beta) as beta was a better format (retained its magnatisum longer then vhs). the ps3 really will help out blue ray, along with video philes pushing the format, but i still think its too soon to tell what will become the standard. I wouldent pick ether though, this format war is shacky and something could beat both these formats.

The format that shows it has the best protection will get support from the studeos. They dont give a shit about data rate or strage, they just want a protected media.
 
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