UMD is dead, Blu Ray is next

[quote name='RedvsBlue']I love when a thread goes on long enough and then someone pops in to post their opinion which ends up just mirroring the exact discussion that's gone on for the previous 12 pages. It always happens and its always amusing.[/QUOTE]

It was basically a condensation of arguments for those who didnt want to read through 12 pages.
 
I bought a PS3 today. I am now a deal supporter. Got X-men 3 and Fifth Element (A crappy transfer, but better then the SD version) as well. Can't wait to use some of those rebates.

No Talledega Nights with my PS3 either :whistle2:( Oh well.
 
Interesting. So they're already shipping systems without Talladega Nights. Personally, I didn't really care that much for the movie, and it wasn't that great as a "show off" disc either. I'm not sure why Sony went with that movie.
 
All shipments today to EB did not include the movie. No sticker on the box and no movie inside. Not a big deal as I thought the movie sucked, but still would have been nice if Sony had included something considering its been only a month since the launch.
 
[quote name='icruise']Interesting. So they're already shipping systems without Talladega Nights. Personally, I didn't really care that much for the movie, and it wasn't that great as a "show off" disc either. I'm not sure why Sony went with that movie.[/QUOTE]

I wonder what other movies Sony's studios had this summer? Maybe they didn't have much else?

Personally I'd prefer yet another copy of Spider-Man 2 :D

I already got two free. One on super-bit DVD that came with my Sony DVD recorder, and one on UMD that came with my PSP. I sold the later. It looked great...but I don't really rewatch movies, and really don't need two copies!
 
[quote name='icruise']Interesting. So they're already shipping systems without Talladega Nights. Personally, I didn't really care that much for the movie, and it wasn't that great as a "show off" disc either. I'm not sure why Sony went with that movie.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. A comedy is probably the worst way to show off blu-ray. I think they were trying to capitalize on the fact that if you wanted Talladega Nights a month early, you would need a PS3. Which is stupid because the initial shipment would've sold out regardless. They really should've went with something like Spiderman. Sure the movie is old, but it has mass appeal and would do Blu-ray justice. Personally, I am waiting for a Blu-ray version of Hero.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']I wonder what other movies Sony's studios had this summer? Maybe they didn't have much else?

Personally I'd prefer yet another copy of Spider-Man 2 :D

I already got two free. One on super-bit DVD that came with my Sony DVD recorder, and one on UMD that came with my PSP. I sold the later. It looked great...but I don't really rewatch movies, and really don't need two copies![/QUOTE]

Considering the price of the system I'm still shocked they launched with the crap that is Talledega Nights. $600 it should have come with a coupon for a free BR movie of your choice. Oh well.
 
[quote name='gizmogc']Considering the price of the system I'm still shocked they launched with the crap that is Talledega Nights. $600 it should have come with a coupon for a free BR movie of your choice. Oh well.[/QUOTE]
Yeah it should have, Talladega Nights is a terrible movie. I can't believe all the people that flocked to see it in theaters.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Agreed. A comedy is probably the worst way to show off blu-ray. I think they were trying to capitalize on the fact that if you wanted Talladega Nights a month early, you would need a PS3. Which is stupid because the initial shipment would've sold out regardless. They really should've went with something like Spiderman. Sure the movie is old, but it has mass appeal and would do Blu-ray justice. Personally, I am waiting for a Blu-ray version of Hero.[/QUOTE]

If they should have boxed anything with it, it should have either been Batman Begins, Pirates 2, or maybe one of the (preferably both) Spider Mans. Heck, if they were planning to box in a comedy do something classic. There's a Blu Ray version of Blazing Saddles right?
 
They wont box in something for free that they know people will buy up the ass at full price.......Pirates 2? Please, thats like throwing away 500 million dollars in BD sales because they know a movie like that will be bought in huge numbers.

They give you a freebie that isn't expected to sell a ton of copies, and a comedy works well because its accessable to 'everyone'.
 
[quote name='HeadRusch']They wont box in something for free that they know people will buy up the ass at full price.......Pirates 2? Please, thats like throwing away 500 million dollars in BD sales because they know a movie like that will be bought in huge numbers.

They give you a freebie that isn't expected to sell a ton of copies, and a comedy works well because its accessable to 'everyone'.[/QUOTE]

It has to be PG-13 to be included. Pirates WOULD have been awesome...but its not out. Just like the Spider-mans and Batman.
 
From a purely speculative standpoint... It DOES seem odd that they packaged a movie with a product 100% sure to sell out in initial release.. I hadn't really thought much about that previously.

The only logical reason I can see for that is Sony banking on people watching the movie in HD, and being so blown away by it that they buy a bunch of Blu ray flicks. I wonder what the Blu Ray movie sales look like since the PS3 launch? I really could see the tactic having worked, since HD movies look stunning in general (Kung Fu Hustle in HD FTW)
 
[quote name='BattleChicken']From a purely speculative standpoint... It DOES seem odd that they packaged a movie with a product 100% sure to sell out in initial release.. I hadn't really thought much about that previously.

The only logical reason I can see for that is Sony banking on people watching the movie in HD, and being so blown away by it that they buy a bunch of Blu ray flicks. I wonder what the Blu Ray movie sales look like since the PS3 launch? I really could see the tactic having worked, since HD movies look stunning in general (Kung Fu Hustle in HD FTW)[/QUOTE]

But TN was a poorly done BR disc. They should have included the best possible PG-13 movie instead.
 
LG's going to introduce a hybrid hd-dvd/blu-ray player at CES, and Warner Bros. will be showing off their "Total HD" dvd hybrid hd-dvd/blu-ray disc.
 
I've said it once, I'll say it again.

Once streaming video and downloading movies becomes mainstream... neither will exist. Just like the iPod... people want ease of use, portability and less physical involvement.

If someone creates a player that downloads HD movies and downloads iPod versions if you own the HD version (.mp4) - and puts it all into a pretty package and gets support from all the major companies... DVD, HD-DVD, and Blue-ray wont be dead, but they might as well be.

As the iPod (or the Mp3 revolution) is showing, people could care less anymore for a shelf full of media.
 
[quote name='Mookyjooky']I've said it once, I'll say it again.

Once streaming video and downloading movies becomes mainstream... neither will exist. Just like the iPod... people want ease of use, portability and less physical involvement.

If someone creates a player that downloads HD movies and downloads iPod versions if you own the HD version (.mp4) - and puts it all into a pretty package and gets support from all the major companies... DVD, HD-DVD, and Blue-ray wont be dead, but they might as well be.

As the iPod (or the Mp3 revolution) is showing, people could care less anymore for a shelf full of media.[/quote]I couldn't agree more. The abandonment of DVD as the principle physical movie format will not happen, and HD movie downloads will be the next big change, not an HD disc.
 
[quote name='daroga']I couldn't agree more. The abandonment of DVD as the principle physical movie format will not happen, and HD movie downloads will be the next big change, not an HD disc.[/QUOTE]

The difference is that with the ipod, once you've bought it...its yours. you can carry it around with you. You can carry around your entire CD collection in your pocket. You can carry around dozens of peoples CD collections, actually.
So you own it...the music is there...at the push of a button.

That technology doesn't yet exist for HD movies....at least not ones where you can have hundreds upon hundreds of movies ready to go at a moments notice.

Streaming HD content is one answer, but few areas have the bandwidth required to make realtime streaming HD content a reality when the selection of movies is massive.

Right now I can stream HD content over cable On Demand......but the quality is low (for HD), and the selection is small. And it costs money unless th emovie in question is free.
 
[quote name='HeadRusch']The difference is that with the ipod, once you've bought it...its yours. you can carry it around with you. You can carry around your entire CD collection in your pocket. You can carry around dozens of peoples CD collections, actually.
So you own it...the music is there...at the push of a button.

That technology doesn't yet exist for HD movies....at least not ones where you can have hundreds upon hundreds of movies ready to go at a moments notice.

Streaming HD content is one answer, but few areas have the bandwidth required to make realtime streaming HD content a reality when the selection of movies is massive.

Right now I can stream HD content over cable On Demand......but the quality is low (for HD), and the selection is small. And it costs money unless th emovie in question is free.[/quote]Very true, it's not nearly as seemless as it is for music at the moment. But I think we'll see that seamlessness come about before we see an install base of HD movie players grow to a reasonable level.

I inadvertantly went wholly digital for my music in college. I had ripped all my CDs to the computer once I had a computer with enough Harddrive space and fast enough CD drive to make it worthwhile (along with the CDDB). A year later I had all of my CDs ripped off out of my car (I stupidly had the originals in the car rather than CD-Rs). That was about 4 years ago, and like you said, after I got an iPod it was great to have everything at the push of a button.

The one issue I see to people not jumping on board with movies like they did music is the portability issue. I can jog with my iPod, I can drive to the store with it plugged into the car, I can load it up on the sound system at home while I clean, whatever. Music can be as active or as passive as you want. Movies, as a visual and audio medium, have to be more actively watched to be fully enjoyed. Not that you can't listen to the audio of a movie and enjoy it (I have a friend who rips a lot of movies' and TV shows' audio to his iPod), but it's not as good. Thus the desire for the pickup and play anywhere isn't there with movies.

Even so, I think digital distribution is the way things are going and that HD-DVD and BluRay, rather than being a stepping stone to getting HD content into the home, will be a competitor with the digital distrubtion.
 
The Xbox Live download service apparently uses 4-5GB for an HD movie. This already takes forever to download on normal broadband (although you can apparently start watching before it's done), but it's still only a fraction of the size of a movie on HD-DVD or Blu-ray. I kind of doubt that we're going to see Internet connections capable of downloading 20-30GB in a reasonable time in the near future. So I guess the question is, are people willing to go with lower quality for the convenience of digital distribution? For audio, the answer is apparently "yes." None of the music download services offer close to CD quality, but they are good enough for most people (myself included).
 
[quote name='daroga']Even so, I think digital distribution is the way things are going and that HD-DVD and BluRay, rather than being a stepping stone to getting HD content into the home, will be a competitor with the digital distrubtion.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I was just stating that, we aren't there yet. Either bandwidth needs to improve (fiber into your homes versus copper) so that the quality of streamed HD content can improve, or we need storage devices that will allow local copies of movies to be saved by the hundreds in sufficient high quality. I should state that I know devices like this DO exist, digital media distribution is definately alive and kicking in the high-end side of home entertainment distribution..whole house audio/video, etc. But I'm talking more about simple TIVO like devices and less about complex Home Theatre PC's and the like).

Cost is also an issue....who wants to pay $2.95 every time you watch a movie....or will it only cost you $2.95 once, and then every other viewing (streaming) is free? Thats another thing......do movie studios make or lose money by moving to/from a physical distribution media....that I can't answer, but you can bet it will have an impact on what we see in the future.

Personally, I like owning the disc...it feels tangible to me...I can play the movie anytime I want, on whatever device I want. With music...I dont really care if I own the disc or not, but movies..maybe because they are a more visual medium...I like having the case, I like having the disc.

Because, as you said, movies are not really portable....then having the item on a physical disc isn't that big of a deal, like it is with CD's that just take up so much room in the car, when you're exercising, etc.
 
[quote name='icruise']The Xbox Live download service apparently uses 4-5GB for an HD movie. This already takes forever to download on normal broadband (although you can apparently start watching before it's done), but it's still only a fraction of the size of a movie on HD-DVD or Blu-ray. I kind of doubt that we're going to see Internet connections capable of downloading 20-30GB in a reasonable time in the near future. So I guess the question is, are people willing to go with lower quality for the convenience of digital distribution? For audio, the answer is apparently "yes." None of the music download services offer close to CD quality, but they are good enough for most people (myself included).[/QUOTE]

More or less this resembles my thoughts on the matter. I'll also take the archaic notion that I like to have tangible goods. I'd like to try the XBL movie service, but at the moment, the restrictions on it don't work for me. I'd much prefer paying a little more to do more than rent a movie to only be able to watch it one time within three days of starting it. Now, surely digital distribution will change in the future, but for the moment, it ain't making me like it.
 
good thing someone told me otherwise I might have bought a BR player.

Thanks!


fucking d-bags

bottom line is that who gives a fuck who wins, universal players will sorta render this fight useless. Maybe now we can start a thread about what universal HD player will put the other out of business.
 
I mean, if you look at developers, of course they are going to want to bypass the middle man and go straight to the customer with their products. They always point at the benifits of doing such a thing, but they always leave out the negatives. "This is where we're going" should be translated to "This is what we'd like to see happen".

I personally don't see it happening any time soon. There is just to much value in having the disc in front of you. No waiting, no worrying about your HD getting fried, and so on.

I'm reallying interested in the Warner Bro's new disc. If it plays on either type of player, I'm curious as to what that might mean for both formats.
 
[quote name='Maynard']bottom line is that who gives a fuck who wins, universal players will sorta render this fight useless. Maybe now we can start a thread about what universal HD player will put the other out of business.[/QUOTE]

Assuming that either company will let a dual format player come out.... which they won't.... which is retarded and divides the market into really dumb halves.
 
[quote name='furyk']Assuming that either company will let a dual format player come out.... which they won't....[/quote]
Already been done (soon).

http://www.lge.com/about/press_release/detail/PRO|NEWS%5EPRE|MENU_20311_PRE|MENU.jhtml
 
[quote name='NamPaehc']I'm reallying interested in the Warner Bro's new disc. If it plays on either type of player, I'm curious as to what that might mean for both formats.[/QUOTE]

For those with both formats the 'Total HD' disc is pretty much useless.
For those with 1 format...why would you buy it?
Will this disc be more then the HD/BR counterparts?

I guess we will know soon enough.
 
[quote name='Cormier6083']UMD was revolutionary... and expensive. It failed. I unfortunatley have the sme feelings about Blu-Ray[/QUOTE]
It failed cause they charged the same price as a DVD but with none of the extras and more compression. Now if they charged ten bucks a title, then we'd still see UMD today, but the studios balked. If sony had UMD recordables we'd also see it today but of course they'd know we'd use it for evil
 
[quote name='Mookyjooky']I've said it once, I'll say it again.

Once streaming video and downloading movies becomes mainstream... neither will exist. Just like the iPod... people want ease of use, portability and less physical involvement.

If someone creates a player that downloads HD movies and downloads iPod versions if you own the HD version (.mp4) - and puts it all into a pretty package and gets support from all the major companies... DVD, HD-DVD, and Blue-ray wont be dead, but they might as well be.

As the iPod (or the Mp3 revolution) is showing, people could care less anymore for a shelf full of media.[/quote]


Could I worship you?
 
Honestly I'm going with the whole "both formats will fail, DLoad Services FTW" senario. Neither format is catching on, even with PS3's built-in support base. If anytjing this whole debacle has only hurt Sony and it's PS3.

Regardless the OP started this just to be one huge flame war.
 
The only problem (besides, you know, not owning a physical copy) with DL services is that the infastructure just isn't there and is probably still five years off for it to be viable for HD video on a non-specialized consumer level. My guess is that Blu-Ray or HD-DVD will have a five year window to get in before the true next format (since lets face it, convience, not quality drives technological progression), downloadable content takes over.
 
[quote name='gizmogc']Toshiba just announced a 50GB HD-DVD disc. Same as Sony.[/QUOTE]

really? I thought HD-DVD only had 15GB layers. If so, the next denomination would either be 45 or 60. Where did you hear this?
 
[quote name='dpatel']really? I thought HD-DVD only had 15GB layers. If so, the next denomination would either be 45 or 60. Where did you hear this?[/quote] hd-dvd single layer=15gb...Blu-ray single layer=25gb........... hd-dvd double layer=30gb...Blu-ray double layer-50gb........... hd-dvd will die.
 
[quote name='richbastard']hd-dvd single layer=15gb...Blu-ray single layer=25gb........... hd-dvd double layer=30gb...Blu-ray double layer-50gb........... hd-dvd will die.[/QUOTE]

Yea, even though HD-DVD can match the Blu-ray at 50GB, it will just get harder and harder for HD-DVD to keep up, storage-wise. I still don't see why one would support it and want it to win.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Yea, even though HD-DVD can match the Blu-ray at 50GB, it will just get harder and harder for HD-DVD to keep up, storage-wise. I still don't see why one would support it and want it to win.[/quote] Storage-wise yeah Blu-Ray pwns it, theres already a 200gb Blu-Ray disk in the works. now also FilmStudio-wise again Blu-Ray pwns it. i dont get it either,hd-dvd is useless.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Yea, even though HD-DVD can match the Blu-ray at 50GB, it will just get harder and harder for HD-DVD to keep up, storage-wise. I still don't see why one would support it and want it to win.[/QUOTE]

Because Sony is evil, duh.
 
[quote name='gizmogc']Because Sony is evil, duh.[/QUOTE]

:) We all know that. Although, I wouldn't consider all other companies 'saints' either.

Anyone who isn't naive knows that all companies are somewhat 'evil'. Any other real reasons as to why HD-DVD should win? I really don't see it, which is why I really wish it would just die out soon and end this meaningless format war.
 
[quote name='dpatel']:) We all know that. Although, I wouldn't consider all other companies 'saints' either.

Anyone who isn't naive knows that all companies are somewhat 'evil'. Any other real reasons as to why HD-DVD should win? I really don't see it, which is why I really wish it would just die out soon and end this meaningless format war.[/QUOTE]

HD-DVD is suppose to be what follows DVDs, not Blu-Ray. Why should Blu-Ray win? The PQ on HD-DVDs are much better then Blu-Ray, as is the bonus features.
Aside from Blu-Ray having 50GB discs (Which Toshiba has now matched) for some of their films, I see no advantage to Blu-Ray. This is just Sony trying to be dominant. Much like the past media wars with Sony which they lost. Beta, MD, UMD. There is nothing special with Blu-Ray that can't be done with HD-DVD. The same cannot be said about Blu-Ray, as there is no viable solution to have BR and DVD on the same disc.

But, whatever. BR looked good on paper, but he launch was horriable. They launched several months after HD-DVD, charged twice as much for a Samsung player, 50GB discs were delayed months, Sony's own machine was delayed an additional 4-5 months, numerous launch BR discs were clustered with bad transfers, artifacts, dirt (See Fifth Element, House of Flying Daggers), and even the discs themselves carried a much higher pricetag then HD-DVD.
 
[quote name='gizmogc']HD-DVD is suppose to be what follows DVDs, not Blu-Ray. Why should Blu-Ray win? The PQ on HD-DVDs are much better then Blu-Ray, as is the bonus features.[/quote]

That was an initial problem which was caused by the use of inferior codecs. If you look at recent releases, the two seem comparable. So this is no longer an issue. And Bonus features is not determined by the format used, I'm pretty sure you know this.

[quote name='gizmogc']Aside from Blu-Ray having 50GB discs (Which Toshiba has now matched) for some of their films, I see no advantage to Blu-Ray.[/quote]

Blu-ray has more storage. I'm sure HD-DVD can continue to match it, but it will just get harder and harder for them, seeing as how Blu-ray has an extra 10GB per layer.

[quote name='gizmogc']This is just Sony trying to be dominant. [/QUOTE]

Not just Sony, but yea, it is basically the blu-ray association trying to be dominant. HD-DVD is really just Toshiba trying to be dominant though too. I don't see what you are saying here.

[quote name='gizmogc']Much like the past media wars with Sony which they lost. Beta, MD, UMD.[/QUOTE]

Those were Sony only formats. Blu-ray is a collaborative effort that involves Sony, much like CDs and DVDs were. And we all know how that turned out.

[quote name='gizmogc']There is nothing special with Blu-Ray that can't be done with HD-DVD. The same cannot be said about Blu-Ray, as there is no viable solution to have BR and DVD on the same disc.[/QUOTE]

HD-DVD will have a much harder time keeping up with blu-ray storage wise if it takes 3 HD-DVD layers to match 2 Blu-ray layers. I don't see why the hybrid blu-ray/dvd disc isn't possible. Although, at the moment, it is an advantage to HD-DVD. From what I understand though, those movies cost quite a bit more than the standard HD-DVD/Blu-ray movie.

[quote name='gizmogc']But, whatever. BR looked good on paper, but he launch was horriable. They launched several months after HD-DVD, charged twice as much for a Samsung player, 50GB discs were delayed months, Sony's own machine was delayed an additional 4-5 months, numerous launch BR discs were clustered with bad transfers, artifacts, dirt (See Fifth Element, House of Flying Daggers), and even the discs themselves carried a much higher pricetag then HD-DVD.[/QUOTE]

Agreed that the launch was horrible. But wars are never determined by their launches. Otherwise the Dreamcast would've never failed. And FYI, I wasn't really referring to which had the better launch, or who was GOING to win. I was talking about who SHOULD win and which format is better. So, complaining about launches is somewhat irrelevant, since that pertains to who is GOING to win, not who SHOULD. But, like I said, a launch doesn't determine the winner.

Blu-ray players were twice as much because they were not willing to take as big of a loss on the players due to the PS3 backing the format.

HD-DVDs have also taken time to get the 50GB disc.

I agree that the delays were bad.

As far as PQ, I already addressed this. This was due to an inferior codec, which no longer is an issue.

And where do you see blu-ray priced much higher than HD-DVD? Are you talking about costs to the consumer, or the producer? Consumer prices are about the same.

So, in the end, it seems like most of the complaints you have against blu-ray have already been taken care of (PQ now not an issue, price of players and discs equal, no more delay of players).
 
They have HD-DVD porn.... as much as I like Blu Ray... its the porn industry that's going to get players and discs sold. Hopefully, they adopt blu ray as well.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']They have HD-DVD porn.... as much as I like Blu Ray... its the porn industry that's going to get players and discs sold. Hopefully, they adopt blu ray as well.[/QUOTE]

Dood HD porn is scary...some shit really just needs to be in VHS!
 
[quote name='evilomar']Dood HD porn is scary...some shit really just needs to be in VHS![/QUOTE]

It will lead to a whole new revolution in pornographic subgenres, though. Aiming at their track marks, for example, when providing the money shot.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']They have HD-DVD porn.... as much as I like Blu Ray... its the porn industry that's going to get players and discs sold. Hopefully, they adopt blu ray as well.[/QUOTE]

Supposedly that's why VHS did better than BetaMax.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']They have HD-DVD porn.... as much as I like Blu Ray... its the porn industry that's going to get players and discs sold. Hopefully, they adopt blu ray as well.[/QUOTE]

The porn industry doesn't have as much weight as it used to, but it still is important. Either way, it looks like they are going with blu-ray:

http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/05/02/pornhd/index.php?lsrc=mwrss
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6142519.html
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/Porn-studio-to-release-movies-in-the-Blu-ray-Disc-format.html
 
[quote name='dpatel']The porn industry doesn't have as much weight as it used to, but it still is important. Either way, it looks like they are going with blu-ray:

http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/05/02/pornhd/index.php?lsrc=mwrss
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6142519.html
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/Porn-studio-to-release-movies-in-the-Blu-ray-Disc-format.html[/QUOTE]
the porn industry is dying cause everyone is getting their porn anonymously off the internet. Nobody is going to go into a store and buy a 40 dollar porno bluray hd dvd when they can just dl what they want. All the major porn companies have gone bankrupt. that's why the girls aren't as hot anymore.
 
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