US Census and Government Waste

[quote name='SpazX']Well other people have addressed that in particular, but do you think they ask questions just for the hell of it?[/QUOTE]

There's probably a pretty good chance that, at some point in time, some business lobby talked the Census Bureau into putting it in there so they could use the data. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that's why a number of the questions on the ACS are phrased the way they are.

Besides, they apparently sent out these letters for the hell of it.
 
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Besides, adding a few questions doesn't drive up costs that much on a survey. The census is still pretty brief.

The cost is in the mailings etc. Data entry can be affected if you add a lot of questions, but it's short enough that it's not an issue of some business type questions driving costs way up.

The census is just a large, demographic survey. It benefits the government, it benefits research in many fields, and it can benefit businesses in marketing. I have no problem with that, businesses are paying taxes just like citizen's, no reason the survey's info shouldn't be beneficial to them. Business shouldn't control the content of the census, but there's no indication that is the case.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Besides, adding a few questions doesn't drive up costs that much on a survey. The census is still pretty brief.[/QUOTE]

I will concede that the actual Census isn't that bad.

Now, the ACS survey... that thing's a whopper.
 
The ACS is much bigger, but more detailed information is needed. It's just too big and would get too low a response rate due to the length to try and do it in place of the census. Thus it goes to a random sample so there's some more detailed information on communities available to help with targeting of government services at the local level etc.
 
I don't claim to be original, so I'm sure this is an old arguement, so hopefully someone will have an answer to it.

If the Census is this important(it is), why not cut all the advertising/mailings, and just say "Here's the Census. Turn it in with your taxes."?
 
To get response rate up there has to be mailings and advertisements--regardless of whether it's sent in on its own or with taxes. Now that doesn't mean blowing money on Super Bowl ads, silly mailings before the census is sent out (rather than just sending to households who haven't returned their's after a month etc.

Also, since most people probably e-file their tax returns these days, that makes the idea of mailing them together obsolete anyway.

Though if they went with Myke's idea of doing it online (and not only by mail) they could maybe integrate the two some how.
 
Instead of trying to come up with crazy formulas like :

Two men with one bathroom will spend X time in the shower. Two women with one bathroom will spend 2x time in the shower. Two men with two bathrooms will spend 2x time in the shower. Two women with two bathrooms will spend 3x time in the shower. And that's if they're white and 30. Time spent increases/ decreases with age and race.

Yeah, that looks effective. Better plan - I'm willing to bet pretty much every public utility has water/sewer records. Much more accurate data than can be gathered/guesstimated/estmated by "how many bathrooms ya got, Jim?"
 
In any case, who cares? It's one question, it's on there because it's useful to someone and its not driving up costs as the survey is still pretty brief.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Instead of trying to come up with crazy formulas like :

Two men with one bathroom will spend X time in the shower. Two women with one bathroom will spend 2x time in the shower. Two men with two bathrooms will spend 2x time in the shower. Two women with two bathrooms will spend 3x time in the shower. And that's if they're white and 30. Time spent increases/ decreases with age and race.

Yeah, that looks effective. Better plan - I'm willing to bet pretty much every public utility has water/sewer records. Much more accurate data than can be gathered/guesstimated/estmated by "how many bathrooms ya got, Jim?"[/QUOTE]
Not if there have been 3 different sets of people living in a certain place, such as the house I'm renting over the past 18 months. First family moved out, second family moved in while they found a new home(house burnt down) and now my family. 3 seperate groups, I'm sure we all used different amounts of water
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Instead of trying to come up with crazy formulas like :

Two men with one bathroom will spend X time in the shower. Two women with one bathroom will spend 2x time in the shower. Two men with two bathrooms will spend 2x time in the shower. Two women with two bathrooms will spend 3x time in the shower. And that's if they're white and 30. Time spent increases/ decreases with age and race.

Yeah, that looks effective. Better plan - I'm willing to bet pretty much every public utility has water/sewer records. Much more accurate data than can be gathered/guesstimated/estmated by "how many bathrooms ya got, Jim?"[/QUOTE]

This line of thinking assumes constants that aren't there. It's the same line of thinking that assumes adding lanes to interstates will clear up traffic jams, instead of leading to more people buying automobiles and actually increasing traffic problems (this is a fact, mind you).

Intuition ain't a fact.

EDIT: About time chart porn is back up!
flush_game.jpg
 
[quote name='Strell']Lewis Black did this joke a long time ago when Bush sent out letters informing people that their tax rebate "would be showing up soon." I think about how many millions of dollars it takes to do that and know that I could be set for life with it.

I have the same reaction when I go into a business and find out they are running Norton or McAfee antivirus.[/QUOTE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZBXWGefFzc#t=3m00s
 
awesome chart! biggest in game spike after the third period, most likely from all the Canadians feeling sick about USA's late goal to tie it.
 
[quote name='myl0r']Canadians feeling sick[/QUOTE]

hahaha, indeed, it doesn't differentiate between *reasons* for using the lou, so it could have spiked from all the puking Canucks.

EDIT: Personally, I dig the bump b/w "Canada Wins" and "Medal Ceremony." You can tell people *want* to go to the bathroom, but they're reluctant to miss the medal ceremony - so it bumps, but is still below the mean on the whole. :lol:
 
What confuses me is that the government already has almost all the data they are asking for in the census. They could just ask the NSA.

It seems that they won't though, they'd rather spend the money to ask us what some arm of the gov already knows.
 
That's just tin foil hat nonsense right there. The NSA and other intelligence agencies hardly have that kind of data on every household in the US.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']That's just tin foil hat nonsense right there. The NSA and other intelligence agencies hardly have that kind of data on every household in the US.[/QUOTE]

LOL
is the only appropriate response.
 
Re: Giving business to the billion-annual-loss USPS:

http://www.bash.org/?127039

wolf> 1. Save every Free Credit Card Offer you get, Put it in pile A

wolf> 2. Save every Free Coupon You get, put that in pile B

wolf> 3. Now open the credit card mail from pile A and find the Business
Reply Mail Envelope.

wolf> 4. Take the coupons from pile B and stuff them in the envelope you hold
in your hand.

wolf> 5. Drop the stuffed to the brim envelopes in your mail and walk away
whistling.

wolf> I have now received two phone calls from the credit card companies
telling me that they received a stuffed envelope with coupons rather
then my application. They informed me that it they are not pleased that
they footed the bill for the crap I sent them. I reply with "It says
Business Reply Mail" I'm suggesting coupons to you to ensure that your
business is more successful. They promptly hang up on me.

wolf> Now, I did this for about a month before it got boring, so I got an
added idea! I added exactly 33 cents worth of pennies to the envelope
so they paid EXTRA due to the weight. I got a call informing me about
the money, I said it was a mistake and I demanded my change back. After
yelling at the clerk and then to the supervisor they agreed to my
demands and cut me a check for the money. I hold in my hand at this
very moment a check from GTE Visa for exactly 33 cents.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']So what, for most, is common knowledge is nut-job conspiracy shit to everyone else?[/QUOTE]

I bought my last shitter on the black market.

Stayin' off the grid, man.
 
Bachmann was railing against the census telling people not to fill it out because ACORN was associated with it and 'omg youre giving the govt information'.

She did a complete 180 (or 360 in Beckistan) when she realized that less people doing census = less congressional seats for Minnesota which might = her losing her seat automatically.
 
did anyone else recieve a cencus letter telling them that they would send someone to your house? letter stated that they would interview me and it would take over 1 hour and to expect a phonecall.

never recieved one before so dont know if this is a the norm.
 
I started sending back those credit card offer envelopes empty.Got the idea from a professor i once had. Hasn't stopped them yet unfortunately, maybe ill start filling them with sand or something else heavy.
 
[quote name='myl0r']Not if there have been 3 different sets of people living in a certain place, such as the house I'm renting over the past 18 months. First family moved out, second family moved in while they found a new home(house burnt down) and now my family. 3 seperate groups, I'm sure we all used different amounts of water[/QUOTE]

This... makes no sense.

How is it going to be less accurate to use actual data in regards to the water usage vs. estimated data gathered by crazy formulas from census information in this case?

In one case, you get the actual water usage from who's been living in the house. This may or may not be accurate depending on the family that's living there vs. the ones that have been living there vs. the ones that could move in later. However, on the plus side, you could theoretically get this data updated EVERY MONTH.

Meanwhile, the other option is to take a poll every ten years and make a somewhat educated guess on the water usage based on the family that's living there in the time frame you poll them. In the past ten years, I've lived in three different places. There's virtually nothing about this data that would represent the truth.

[quote name='mykevermin']Intuition ain't a fact.[/QUOTE]

However, monthly utility records are. Guessing water usage isn't.
 
Are we still talking about how you're *afraid* to tell the census bureau how many shitters you have, like that qualifies as a reasonable, coherent and comprehensive criticism of the entire idea of the census?
 
There's a large difference between being "afraid" and simply not being willing to submit.

I have nothing to fear from, say, a search of my home. But you'd better believe that I would not be willing to submit to an unlawful search. Would you? Do you have something to hide, Myke? Are you afraid?
 
Are you or are you not willing to admit there's a world of difference between being "afraid" to do something and not being willing to submit to something? Or are you just that stubborn?

Now, I am willing to admit that this year's Census isn't bad at all.
http://2010.census.gov/2010census/how/interactive-form.php

Still not gonna answer, just to mess up Myke's data. :p

On a delayed note: Check out the 76 page document detailing the questions asked on the 2010 Census and ACS forms.
http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Downl...2010_Census_and_American_Community_Survey.pdf
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Still not gonna answer, just to mess up Myke's data. :p[/QUOTE]

http://ask.census.gov/cgi-bin/askce...hZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PXF1ZXN0aW9ubmFpcmU*

"Title 18 U.S.C. Section 3571 and Section 3559, in effect amends Title 13 U.S.C. Section 221 by changing the fine for anyone over 18 years old who refuses or willfully neglects to complete the questionnaire or answer questions posed by census takers from a fine of not more than $100 to not more than $5,000."

Please send your check of not more than $5,000 to:

Gubmint
1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Washington, D.C. THEY'RE EVERYWHERE
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Are you or are you not willing to admit there's a world of difference between being "afraid" to do something and not being willing to submit to something? Or are you just that stubborn?[/QUOTE]

What are you "not submitting" to? You make it sound like this is your personal Tiananmen Square moment, where you're going to come face to face with men in dark suits, or whipped or beaten into submission, or waterboarded - but no! you're too strong. Your will can not be broken. They may take your body, but they'll never take your whatever! Don't tread on me! No taxation without representation! You're the new George Washington! Rosa Parks! Stand up to the man and fear no consequence!

...when you're just going to mail in a half-assed survey. you really think highly of yourself just for doing something that is antithetical to real concepts of "submission."

You are a walking Hoekstra meme.

EDIT: Why even answer the resident question?
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']http://ask.census.gov/cgi-bin/askce...hZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PXF1ZXN0aW9ubmFpcmU*

"Title 18 U.S.C. Section 3571 and Section 3559, in effect amends Title 13 U.S.C. Section 221 by changing the fine for anyone over 18 years old who refuses or willfully neglects to complete the questionnaire or answer questions posed by census takers from a fine of not more than $100 to not more than $5,000."

Please send your check of not more than $5,000 to:

Gubmint
1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Washington, D.C. THEY'RE EVERYWHERE[/QUOTE]

I am unable to find any mention of someone actually being fined or jailed for not filling out census data.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']I am unable to find any mention of someone actually being fined or jailed for not filling out census data.[/QUOTE]

Just because the law isn't enforced doesn't mean you aren't planning to break the law.

Given the dire financial shape of our government, do you really want to test them?
 
Myke: Your entire line of thought border's Bush's "If you're not doing anything illegal, then you don't have to worry about wiretaps." It doesn't matter *why* I want to keep personal information personal. It's mine and I can. Don't like it? Get a court order and make me. Otherwise, just go sit in a corner and cry.

JJ: I don't get worked up about it. I just threw the ACS form in the trash when I got it last year. I didn't even recycle it. :p
 
Can't we take a state thats vast and scarcely populated like Wyoming and just let all of these anti government isolationists etc. move there? No governemnt at all, no regulation, it will be the wild west of legend, we'll just wall off the place and let every one have at it. Then we have Kurt Russel go in and film Escape from Wyoming.
 
Deep down, I secretly wish we'd get a republican president in office that was *worse* than Bush. I'd love to see the "anti-government" posts some of you would spew out as soon as President Joe from Arizona started using data gathered from the Census to round up illegals and ship 'em back to Mexico or such. It wouldn't be worth the harm such an individual would do in the long run, but it'd be a good read.
 
Anti government nothing, republican sure. What you do with something does not make it wrong or evil somehow. Your example would be a misuse of census data of course, but it would make the census no more right or wrong.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Deep down, I secretly wish we'd get a republican president in office that was *worse* than Bush. I'd love to see the "anti-government" posts some of you would spew out as soon as President Joe from Arizona started using data gathered from the Census to round up illegals and ship 'em back to Mexico or such. It wouldn't be worth the harm such an individual would do in the long run, but it'd be a good read.[/QUOTE]

Pretty Republican idea to drum up the ole "I wish I could see some people suffer" card. Kind of like when Cheney and Limbaugh talk about "Gosh, I really wish we could have another massive terrorist attack on our own soil, juuuuuuuust so I could make fun of libruls about it."
 
So he wishes that the government would do X so we all would share his fear of the government doing X. Well I guess that just makes sense.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Anti government nothing, republican sure. What you do with something does not make it wrong or evil somehow. Your example would be a misuse of census data of course, but it would make the census no more right or wrong.[/QUOTE]

When the Republicans are in charge, they will be the government.
And a gun isn't "wrong" either - but I wouldn't hand a loaded firearm to a child.

[quote name='SpazX']So he wishes that the government would do X so we all would share his fear of the government doing X. Well I guess that just makes sense.[/QUOTE]

Or, perhaps, it'd just be easier if people would remember the last time they did it.

[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Why would illegals fill out the census?[/QUOTE]

Perhaps you're unaware, but one of the big pushes of the Census is to get a count for groups of people that live in the US but would be averse to filling out the form. This includes minorities, the homeless and - yes - illegal immigrants.

http://blog.nj.com/njv_bob_braun/2010/03/nj_illegal_immigrants_normally.html
 
[quote name='mykevermin']why do you think minorities would be averse to filling out the census?[/QUOTE]

http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-03-...-lower-immigration-citizenship-or-immigration

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/151745

Francisco Heredia, partnership specialist for the U.S. Census Bureau, said the agency has hired eight partnership specialists across the Valley in hard-to-count communities. They can reach out to these sections of society by using their local connections and explaining the benefits and ease of being counted.

Still, Heredia said that can be a challenge, especially among minorities.

"Some don't trust the government or have fears on how their information will be used," Heredia said. "Our goal is to tell them filling out the form is easy, confidential and important."
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