Vacation to China

Troopa

Troopa

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Hi all,

I plan to take a 14 day (at least) trip to China in a couple of years. Does anyone have any info I should know, or a web site where I can find information on how to have a good trip there?

Thanks much.
 
Don't eat anything from street vendors, unless you want traveler's diarrhea.

There's been a few threads about this in the past; search for "China" and you're bound to find tons of useful info.
 
Buy lots and lots of bootleg software, GBA carts, and DVD's unload them on ebay to pay for your trip. I would stay away from delicacys they are pretty much guaranteed food poisoning and the runs.
 
Seriously buy bootleg vcds and dvds. Everytime my cousin goes he picks up 50+ movies for like 10 American dollars.
 
If you are getting anything bootleg, you're better off shipping the merch to yourself via UPS (or whatever your favorite global shipping method is) since you don't want to go through US customs with any illegal shit. Really though, it's not worth it for the most part (except maybe the games) as the stuff you get (movies, clothes, toys) aren't as high quality as the original... though bags (Fendi, Louis Vutton, etc.) are getting pretty close.
 
[quote name='whitereflection']There's been a few threads about this in the past; search for "China" and you're bound to find tons of useful info.[/QUOTE]

Will do, thanks!

[quote name='gregthomas77']Supporting China through tourism supports a government that commits horrible human rights abuses. Just a thought.[/QUOTE]
I have a desire to travel the world. That doesn't mean I support evil behavior.
 
[quote name='Troopa']Will do, thanks!


I have a desire to travel the world. That doesn't mean I support evil behavior.[/QUOTE]

Well, tourism is a huge industry. A booming tourism industry is what has saved cuba from ruin after the soviet union collapsed. I'm not saying that you shouldn't go, just that the country you visit clearly benefits from tourist dollars.
 
[quote name='Troopa']Will do, thanks!


I have a desire to travel the world. That doesn't mean I support evil behavior.[/QUOTE]


It does if that travel ends up financially supporting a country that abuses its people. But hey, think of it this way, if you end up for some reason in a Chinese prison, then you can just pretend that their prison abuses don't exist either.
 
I spent about a month in China this last summer - it's not really a vacation, it's an eye opener.

Eating the street vendor food is fine.

Travelling does support the government, it also supports people who are trying to make a living.

I went from Hong Kong to Guiyang to Chongqing to Yangzhou to Guilin to Guangzhou back to Hong Kong.

Along the way I stopped at a lot of small towns and villages. China is very safe (except for petty crime like pickpockets - my camera got jacked) but the people can be at times standoffish. If you speak ANY chinese (mandarin) you will save a whole lotta money.

Travel by train - and travel first class, unless you want to experience the gritty ways of the "hard seat"

Eat everything - the food is unfuckingbelievably delicious, contrary to common stereotypes and assumptions chinese food in china tastes NOTHING like chinese food in the UK or the US.

They really do eat dog. They also do eat cat, and basically anything else, especially in Canton (Guangzhou).

You will see some of the most amazingly beautiful natural landscapes in the world - it will be expensive (relatively speaking).

Hotels and hostels are not "cheap" but they are reasonably priced ($20 a night).

Where do you plan on going? PM me if you have more questions or post here.
 
gregthomas77,

I understand and partially agree with your point. But does that mean I should stop living in America, since our government is pretty screwed up too? Where could I possibly live that in some way or another would not help support bad and good people?

My main point is, China is going to be corrupt with or without me. Me taking a one or two week trip there isn't going to change anything.

I think I might go on a group tour vacation so it's safer, although it would be cool to go by myself.

I recently talked to a young guy who stayed there for two years. He met his wife there too. They're both in America now, and he said it was great there.

Sleep, I'm not sure where I want to go yet. I'm still looking into it.
 
[quote name='gregthomas77']It does if that travel ends up financially supporting a country that abuses its people. But hey, think of it this way, if you end up for some reason in a Chinese prison, then you can just pretend that their prison abuses don't exist either.[/QUOTE]

I definitely acknowledge the atrocities of communist china and argue against their ideology and system to the tooth - but the culture and people of china are just that, and to not visit and experience that world because of some ill-informed assumptions is foolish. I am well aware that the Great Leap Forward resulted in approx. 30 million deaths in three years.

I would hate to live in China as a chinese as it is a terribly subversive and controlling society, but the more I study China, the less I am sure as to how a government decides how to handle over a billion people stretching out over one of the largest geographically diverse areas.

It is EXTREMELY rare for any foreigner to go to prison in China, and for an American to be jailed would be, right now, geopolitical suicide.

what country doesn't abuse its people - and whom are you referring to? The government?

In the past decade, china is number 1 in middle class growth, PER CAPITA and continues to hold this rank.


http://www.helpusa.org/statistics/
"At least 2.3 million adults and children, or nearly 1 percent of the U.S. population, are likely to experience a spell of homelessness at least once during the year. This likelihood grows to 6.3 percent if one considers only people living in poverty, according to the newest national analysis of homelessness by Urban Institute researchers Martha Burt and Laudan Aron. At the same time, there is a bigger and more diverse network of homeless services than in 1987, when the Urban Institute released earlier national estimates of the homeless population.

On any given night, over 37,000 people are homeless in New York City, including more than 16,000 children. The population of the New York City municipal shelter system reached a record high in December 2002. "

things just aren't as black and white as we'd like them to be.
 
I was planning on taking a trip to China this summer, but my university cancelled it due to lack of interest :whistle2:/

So, I went to South Korea for a month instead. If you have any questions about South Korea, give me a PM. It was a great experience. I'd love to go back.
 
[quote name='Troopa']gregthomas77,

I understand and partially agree with your point. But does that mean I should stop living in America, since our government is pretty screwed up too? Where could I possibly live that in some way or another would not help support bad and good people?

My main point is, China is going to be corrupt with or without me. Me taking a one or two week trip there isn't going to change anything.

I think I might go on a group tour vacation so it's safer, although it would be cool to go by myself.

I recently talked to a young guy who stayed there for two years. He met his wife there too. They're both in America now, and he said it was great there.

Sleep, I'm not sure where I want to go yet. I'm still looking into it.[/QUOTE]

You are probably right, one person visiting doesn't really change much. However, to draw a connection between the US and China is a bit of a stretch.

I am sure you will have fun, and I am not trying to pick a fight. I just think that people need to understand that there are effects to our actions. One person may not make a difference. Hopefully we won't end up with too many people who see themselves as just one person.
 
Oh leave the kid alone... he wants to go to China and he was looking for advice, he wasn't looking for anybody's approval... jeez.

Enjoy your trip when you do go, do everything there that you possibly can and live it up
 
[quote name='Sleepkyng']I definitely acknowledge the atrocities of communist china and argue against their ideology and system to the tooth - but the culture and people of china are just that, and to not visit and experience that world because of some ill-informed assumptions is foolish. I am well aware that the Great Leap Forward resulted in approx. 30 million deaths in three years.

I would hate to live in China as a chinese as it is a terribly subversive and controlling society, but the more I study China, the less I am sure as to how a government decides how to handle over a billion people stretching out over one of the largest geographically diverse areas.

It is EXTREMELY rare for any foreigner to go to prison in China, and for an American to be jailed would be, right now, geopolitical suicide.

what country doesn't abuse its people - and whom are you referring to? The government?

In the past decade, china is number 1 in middle class growth, PER CAPITA and continues to hold this rank.


http://www.helpusa.org/statistics/
"At least 2.3 million adults and children, or nearly 1 percent of the U.S. population, are likely to experience a spell of homelessness at least once during the year. This likelihood grows to 6.3 percent if one considers only people living in poverty, according to the newest national analysis of homelessness by Urban Institute researchers Martha Burt and Laudan Aron. At the same time, there is a bigger and more diverse network of homeless services than in 1987, when the Urban Institute released earlier national estimates of the homeless population.

On any given night, over 37,000 people are homeless in New York City, including more than 16,000 children. The population of the New York City municipal shelter system reached a record high in December 2002. "

things just aren't as black and white as we'd like them to be.[/QUOTE]

Ok, so let me see if I have this straight:

1. You would hate to live in China, because it would suck. However, its ok to visit becuase you only have to experience the good aspects of the country.

2. The prison abuses don't matter because politics will protect you as an American from their effects.

3. Because the middle class in China is growing while we have homelessness in the US, that means .....Ok, I am not really sure what you are saying that means.

Let me retort:

1. Problems here do not excuse problems there.

2. Some stuff about the middle class in China:

“Perhaps it [the growth of the Chinese middle class] has more influence on economic development than on political development. If the percentage of the Chinese middle class reaches one-fifth, we’re talking about 300 million people. This equates to a huge consumer market in China. In the past, not many of China’s 1.3 billion people could afford to make big purchases. Now, there are 300 million who can afford expensive items; the population of China’s middle class is almost the same as the population of the United States. However, the average income in China is only 10 percent of that in the United States. So, if you only look at China’s middle class, their average income is almost 30 percent of that in the United States.

Also:

Although the population of the middle class is increasing, China is an agricultural country, and the vast majority of China’s population is composed of 900 million peasants. So the gap between the rich and the poor is increasing. Pei said that the effect of the growing middle class has a limited effect on decreasing poverty. He thinks that solving the problems of the poor depends on the various policies of the Chinese government.

He says, “The situation of those in poverty depends on the economic development and the policies of the government to help the poor. Yet the absolute or relative reduction of those in poverty is relevant to economic and social policies, especially China’s tax policies. Currently, all these public policies in China do nothing to decrease the number of those in poverty.”

3. And, by the way, and increasing economy does not excuse any of the following:

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/01/13/china9809.htm
 
Hey Troopa- if you want to be adventurous, go to Western China, if you want to see the regular good stuff and be a little less lost and more comfortable go to Beijing, Shanghai, Xi'an etc.

I've been to Tibet for a month and regular ole' china for a month and both places are fantastic.

if you're up for adventure I heartily reccomend starting in Chengdu and getting up into Sichuan where the mountains and forests are simply breathtaking.

The best food is in the south - Hunan, Guizhou, Kunnming etc.

what time of year are you going?
 
[quote name='gregthomas77']Ok, so let me see if I have this straight:

1. You would hate to live in China, because it would suck. However, its ok to visit becuase you only have to experience the good aspects of the country.

2. The prison abuses don't matter because politics will protect you as an American from their effects.

3. Because the middle class in China is growing while we have homelessness in the US, that means .....Ok, I am not really sure what you are saying that means.

Let me retort:

1. Problems here do not excuse problems there.

2. Some stuff about the middle class in China:

“Perhaps it [the growth of the Chinese middle class] has more influence on economic development than on political development. If the percentage of the Chinese middle class reaches one-fifth, we’re talking about 300 million people. This equates to a huge consumer market in China. In the past, not many of China’s 1.3 billion people could afford to make big purchases. Now, there are 300 million who can afford expensive items; the population of China’s middle class is almost the same as the population of the United States. However, the average income in China is only 10 percent of that in the United States. So, if you only look at China’s middle class, their average income is almost 30 percent of that in the United States.

Also:

Although the population of the middle class is increasing, China is an agricultural country, and the vast majority of China’s population is composed of 900 million peasants. So the gap between the rich and the poor is increasing. Pei said that the effect of the growing middle class has a limited effect on decreasing poverty. He thinks that solving the problems of the poor depends on the various policies of the Chinese government.

He says, “The situation of those in poverty depends on the economic development and the policies of the government to help the poor. Yet the absolute or relative reduction of those in poverty is relevant to economic and social policies, especially China’s tax policies. Currently, all these public policies in China do nothing to decrease the number of those in poverty.”

3. And, by the way, and increasing economy does not excuse any of the following:

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/01/13/china9809.htm[/QUOTE]

I think you are missing what he is trying to say. Basically it's this: Where can he take a vacation without supporting something negative?
 
[quote name='greendj27']I think you are missing what he is trying to say. Basically it's this: Where can he take a vacation without supporting something negative?[/QUOTE]

ding ding ding! we have a winner! ;)
 
[quote name='gregthomas77']Ok, so let me see if I have this straight:

1. You would hate to live in China, because it would suck. However, its ok to visit becuase you only have to experience the good aspects of the country.

2. The prison abuses don't matter because politics will protect you as an American from their effects.

3. Because the middle class in China is growing while we have homelessness in the US, that means .....Ok, I am not really sure what you are saying that means.

Let me retort:

1. Problems here do not excuse problems there.

2. Some stuff about the middle class in China:

“Perhaps it [the growth of the Chinese middle class] has more influence on economic development than on political development. If the percentage of the Chinese middle class reaches one-fifth, we’re talking about 300 million people. This equates to a huge consumer market in China. In the past, not many of China’s 1.3 billion people could afford to make big purchases. Now, there are 300 million who can afford expensive items; the population of China’s middle class is almost the same as the population of the United States. However, the average income in China is only 10 percent of that in the United States. So, if you only look at China’s middle class, their average income is almost 30 percent of that in the United States.

Also:

Although the population of the middle class is increasing, China is an agricultural country, and the vast majority of China’s population is composed of 900 million peasants. So the gap between the rich and the poor is increasing. Pei said that the effect of the growing middle class has a limited effect on decreasing poverty. He thinks that solving the problems of the poor depends on the various policies of the Chinese government.

He says, “The situation of those in poverty depends on the economic development and the policies of the government to help the poor. Yet the absolute or relative reduction of those in poverty is relevant to economic and social policies, especially China’s tax policies. Currently, all these public policies in China do nothing to decrease the number of those in poverty.”

3. And, by the way, and increasing economy does not excuse any of the following:

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/01/13/china9809.htm[/QUOTE]

I'm not defending chinese policy or prisons or anything of the sort. I explicitly said I wasn't.

I am saying that there is a culture that is 4000 fucking years old over there and being there is an experience you cannot get any other way.

I'm saying that what it means to be "poor" "happy" "inspired" "in love" etc. all are TOTALLY different in china and i met people and witnessed cultural phenomenons that blew me away.

Yes, China is a corrupt country, there are many poor unhappy people there - but there is a sense of survival, of struggle and history there that NO OTHER COUNTRY CAN CLAIM.

If you want to visit only "good ole' safe and wholesome countries" fine, but which one will you chose? France - nope, England - nope, All of South America? Nope, How about india, pakistan or any middle eastern country? nope, anywere in Africa? Nope, how about eastern europe? can't really defend all that ethnic cleansing now can we?
well what about scandnavia and iceland? - well there's seroius problems with homogeny and ethnic discrimination.
Japan - yah...


Even Canada has its problems.


So where do you plan on going for your vacation?
 
My thoughts.

First off China is Fascist now. Look at the definition of Fascism and I think China clearly fits it. Moreover this is a Wet Dream for American Corporations for this is what they want us to become.
Now that I'm done with that some advice. Keep your mouth shut if you think about saying anything controversial because you don't want to go to prison. I would suggest buying CHINESE games myself, look for some worthwhile stuff and even HK action movies that are LEGIT should be fairly reasonable around there. I'd suggest you buy an English copy of "Men From the Marsh" which is what Suikoden is based off of but you'd have a problem getting it out of the country from what I've heard since that's their National Treasure but if you can get it from Taiwan if you drop by there. That's about it. Truly I can't think of many worthy Chinese games except for the Chinese PC versions of Suikoden if you need it then get ahold of the Japanese text get someone to translate then make an English patch for it.
After all that yeah I'd suggest sightseeing, Great Wall is an obvious.
What else? To the person who mentioned China's Middle Class growing that's quite obvious because they're replacing us because of fucking Free Trade.
 
[quote name='greendj27']I think you are missing what he is trying to say. Basically it's this: Where can he take a vacation without supporting something negative?[/QUOTE]
Sealand?
 
to make your trip to china awesome, you should plan early and go to the olympics in 2008

i had always wanted to go to the olympics, maybe when it is in L.A. again
 
Japan - yah...

Even Canada has its problems.
Click to expand...

Well japan has oppressed the indigenous population, and before anyone gives me strange looks look up the history of the Ainu in japan (many parents do not even tell their children they are Ainu due to racism). Canada is probably one of the few countries to be both a 1st world and a 3rd world nation, with the horrible conditions of some of the aboriginal populations on some reservations (america probably would have the same thing if their native population was more isolated and more... alive).

Basically I think its all in degrees. I would visit china, but I would not visit tibet unless I could do it in a way as not to give the chinese there money (to me visiting tibet is morally similar to visiting southern cotton plantations during the 1820's). I think I would visit practically any country, except in ways that particularly aided in the discrimination against a population. So basically china yes, tibet no. Israel yes, settlements no etc. Again though, if I could do it in a way without giving them money then I'd be ok with it.

Though, as to poverty, china's poor are improving more than that capitalist country they are always compared to, India.
 
Go to some bookstores. I don't know if you can read Chinese, but if you can you're bound to find some stuff that is hundreds(if not more) of years old.
 
i was being sarcastic about japan not having an oppressive history - Rape of Nanking and the puppet fascist state in inner mongolia etc.
 
[quote name='Sleepkyng']i was being sarcastic about japan not having an oppressive history - Rape of Nanking and the puppet fascist state in inner mongolia etc.[/QUOTE]

I thought you were just talking about whats currently going on.
 
[quote name='Sleepkyng']what time of year are you going?[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your suggestions.

I haven't even thought about what time of year I was going to go. What would you recommend?
 
if the cab driver sees that ur not chinese or dont speak chinese, they will charge u more money.

i dont know if this is true but, if u diss the chinese president they arrest u right away.
 
[quote name='trunks982']if the cab driver sees that ur not chinese or dont speak chinese, they will charge u more money.[/quote]

Not sure how much more in china, but you can get rooms at about a few bucks in vietnam if you can pass yourself off as vietnamese. The same rooms may be 20 or 30 for tourists.

i dont know if this is true but, if u diss the chinese president they arrest u right away.
Click to expand...

Well, theoretically. It's unlikely to happen in any large city unless you're outspoken (not just as something between friends, and certainly not if you're a tourist), in rural areas its a crapshoot. There was this old guy on the news once who sold his house in the city and moved out to a rural village to start an orphanage. Well, local officials tend to be very corrupt. They decided to shut down the orphanage and keep all the donated money (the orphanage had captured the attention of the media and recieved many donations from around china), they gathered the townspeople and told them. The people were angry and tried to get them to stop, but the officials just kinda brushed it off. Then the guy who started the orphanage was interviewed (it was outside, not very secretive) calling them donkeys and everything insulting thing he could come up with. He was saying how corrupt they are and how they're a danger to the country. Despite all the very vocal attacks (and some of the insults were a lot worse in chinese than in english) nothing happened to him. I've seen cases where locals have even held protests. But in other areas people can do the same thing and get arrested, tortured etc. China is very, very different depending on where you are.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']I thought you were just talking about whats currently going on.[/QUOTE]

well, in that regards, the severe national identity crisis is pretty telling of how repressive the society is as of now.

Troopa - the summer is VERY hot, it was never lower than 33 degress celsius when i was there in June... which is about 93 farenheit. And it peaked in Chongqing at 45 celsius and the humidity was almost 92%

There is also a rainy season, and the winters are really fucking cold (my brother lives in china and says it is getting chilly now)
 
I'll probably go during the spring or fall. I don't like extreme heat or extreme cold.

Heh, even if the cab driver charges me extra, everything in China is dirt cheap. The guy I knew who spent 2 years over there told me his apartment was less than $200/month and he spent around $10/week on food.
 
it is cheap to live in china, but travelling and visiting sites is another story.

transportation isn't usually expensive, but there is a chinese price and a visitor price for everything. 10 kuai for a chinese might be 50 kuai for you and it begins to add up.
 
[quote name='Sleepkyng']it is cheap to live in china, but travelling and visiting sites is another story.

transportation isn't usually expensive, but there is a chinese price and a visitor price for everything. 10 kuai for a chinese might be 50 kuai for you and it begins to add up.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for reminding me why I like Korea. They don't pull that bullshit on you, at least from what I saw.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']Thanks for reminding me why I like Korea. They don't pull that bullshit on you, at least from what I saw.[/QUOTE]

There's not really a sign saying "foreigners pay 50, locals pay 10" it's more "you don't know what the hell is going on so you pay 50". Its more because they can and because they assume you have money. I knew one guy who went to thailand and often argued the price, insisting on the lower one. It usually worked.
 
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