Veteran's Day

When my step dad goes off shore for Schlumberger, he is putting his life on the line.

When my step mom goes in to the mill at 3am, she's putting her life on the line.

When my dad is under a 7-row chopper welding, he is putting his life on the line.

Some jobs are dangerous. It's just the nature of things.

Your description of your grandfather does indeed sound like the description of an honorable man. However, had you only said "He was a World War II veteran," I would not have been able to safely make that assumption, and I'm sure he would have lived a respectable life regardless of whether or not he had served in the military.
 
[quote name='Koggit']When my step dad goes off shore for Schlumberger, he is putting his life on the line.

When my step mom goes in to the mill at 3am, she's putting her life on the line.

When my dad is under a 7-row chopper welding, he is putting his life on the line.

Some jobs are dangerous. It's just the nature of things.
[/QUOTE]

Oh god.

So when your step dad goes to work on the oil rig, it's being attacked by renegade sharks with laser beams attached to their fricken' foreheads?

And the mill is overrun with "seperatists" who hide inside the facility, armed with rocket launchers and AK-47s?

And welders have to go through checkpoints, because the day before, someone suicide bombed one of the entrances?

There is no other job or occupation in the world that carries the same burden and psychological strain that being a solider and fighting does. NONE.

As Brak has said, stop comparing shit. Your comparisons are trash and absolutely worthless, because you think you're so much smarter than anyone who disagrees with you. It's like you think the American army is the only one in the history of the world.

I mean, I can't even figure this damn attention-whroeship out.
 
[quote name='Strell']Oh god.

So when your step dad goes to work on the oil rig, it's being attacked by renegade sharks with laser beams attached to their fricken' foreheads?

And the mill is overrun with "seperatists" who hide inside the facility, armed with rocket launchers and AK-47s?

And welders have to go through checkpoints, because the day before, someone suicide bombed one of the entrances?

There is no other job or occupation in the world that carries the same burden and psychological strain that being a solider and fighting does. NONE.

As Brak has said, stop comparing shit. Your comparisons are trash and absolutely worthless, because you think you're so much smarter than anyone who disagrees with you. It's like you think the American army is the only one in the history of the world.

I mean, I can't even figure this damn attention-whroeship out.[/QUOTE]

You refuse to discuss this reasonably, so I'll return the favor.

http://www.forbes.com/2002/09/03/0903worksafe.html

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...ublic/ES-Programs/Force/Safety/Mom/fatal.html (google cache, hopefully this link works, the original site is down)

DO SOLDIERS HAVE TREES FALLING ON THEM HUH HUH HUH?

Dude, stop being a dumb twat.

The above links show that you're more likely to die if you're a timber cutter than if you're active duty in the armed forces. No, you're not being shot at -- trees are falling without inches of you. Who the hell are you to say which one puts the most strain on someone? Have you been in both professions?

You can draw comparisons all day long -- timber cutters aren't thousands of miles from their family, blah blah blah. GOOD JOB, YOU'VE PROVED THEY AREN'T THE EXACT SAME JOB. Fact is, it's still a god damned job, whether or not there are differences. I'm a student. That's my job. Does a timber cutter have to go to school everyday? No? Well, does that make my job more difficult? No, it makes it different. Which is why we call them different things.

Look, I'm not saying being a soldier is great and cushy, I'm saying we pay them a lot of tax money as compensation, and they are doing a job that they are paid for, therefore blindly honoring them is absolutely ridiculous.
 
[quote name='Strell']Oh god.

So when your step dad goes to work on the oil rig, it's being attacked by renegade sharks with laser beams attached to their fricken' foreheads?

And the mill is overrun with "seperatists" who hide inside the facility, armed with rocket launchers and AK-47s?

And welders have to go through checkpoints, because the day before, someone suicide bombed one of the entrances?

There is no other job or occupation in the world that carries the same burden and psychological strain that being a solider and fighting does. NONE.

As Brak has said, stop comparing shit. Your comparisons are trash and absolutely worthless, because you think you're so much smarter than anyone who disagrees with you. It's like you think the American army is the only one in the history of the world.

I mean, I can't even figure this damn attention-whroeship out.[/QUOTE]

I typed a long reply being a douche, to counter-douche you. Fact is, you aren't worth it. Enjoy your retarded beliefs and prove that things are different elsewhere. Maybe you should stop by the DVD forum and prove to them that Die Hard isn't E.T. I'm sure that's something they need to know.
 
[quote name='Koggit']I typed a long reply being a douche, to counter-douche you. Fact is, you aren't worth it. Enjoy your retarded beliefs and prove that things are different elsewhere. Maybe you should stop by the DVD forum and prove to them that Die Hard isn't E.T. I'm sure that's something they need to know.[/QUOTE]

And what was your response full of, hmmm?

Bullshit, that's what. And I know this because this is a common tactic on the intermotronz - "I really did X, I REALLY SUPER REALLY DID, BELIEVE ME, but then I decided to not do it, BUT STILL MENTION I REALLY DID IT, NO SERIOUSLY, because I know someone can't prove that I did or didn't do it."

So, right. Uh huh. Yes yes. I know I know. You really did. Uh huh. Don't worry, I believe you.

By your account, people working in gas stations put their life on the line because every once and a while once of them gets robbed or shot. Or let's go back to your original bullshit comparison - bus drivers. Well, there's people who get into wrecks every year with bus drivers, I guess that's a valid comparison.

You can't tear apart the fact that your entire disapproval of something is predicated on a load of asinine backwards logic, and then you stick your ears in your fingers and sing a little song whenever someone comes by and calls you out on your bullshit.

Fact is, you opened up this argument. You did a spectacularly bad job of doing it, with shitty examples, shitty "counter" examples (if you can even call them that), and a lot of stubborn "I'm right and your wrong" nonsense.

Feel free to be a douche. I wouldn't expect anything more or less out of someone like you.

Maybe when you're done, you can go make a few more "STOP HATING ON BRITNEY" youtube videos or something equally stupid.

I think I should point out the difference between E.T. and Die Hard. Something tells me if this site harbors idiots like you, the potential for someone not being able to tell the two apart is pretty great.
 
[quote name='Strell']And what was your response full of, hmmm?

Bullshit, that's what. And I know this because this is a common tactic on the intermotronz - "I really did X, I REALLY SUPER REALLY DID, BELIEVE ME, but then I decided to not do it, BUT STILL MENTION I REALLY DID IT, NO SERIOUSLY, because I know someone can't prove that I did or didn't do it."

So, right. Uh huh. Yes yes. I know I know. You really did. Uh huh. Don't worry, I believe you.

By your account, people working in gas stations put their life on the line because every once and a while once of them gets robbed or shot. Or let's go back to your original bullshit comparison - bus drivers. Well, there's people who get into wrecks every year with bus drivers, I guess that's a valid comparison.

You can't tear apart the fact that your entire disapproval of something is predicated on a load of asinine backwards logic, and then you stick your ears in your fingers and sing a little song whenever someone comes by and calls you out on your bullshit.

Fact is, you opened up this argument. You did a spectacularly bad job of doing it, with shitty examples, shitty "counter" examples (if you can even call them that), and a lot of stubborn "I'm right and your wrong" nonsense.

Feel free to be a douche. I wouldn't expect anything more or less out of someone like you.

Maybe when you're done, you can go make a few more "STOP HATING ON BRITNEY" youtube videos or something equally stupid.

I think I should point out the difference between E.T. and Die Hard. Something tells me if this site harbors idiots like you, the potential for someone not being able to tell the two apart is pretty great.[/QUOTE]

The gist was the only thing you're doing (post 53) is differentiating between two different jobs.

Timber cutters don't have to worry about getting shot at.

Soldiers don't have to worry about trees falling on them.

Bus drivers don't have to worry about their midterms.

The only point you've made in this thread has been that a bus driver isn't a soldier, my stepdad isn't a soldier, etc. Good fucking work, Strell. Bravo. Way to go.

Now, I believe the other forums are in need of your insight. Go let them know about things that aren't the same.
 
[quote name='Koggit']The gist was the only thing you're doing (post 53) is differentiating between two different jobs.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, I have successfully done that.

Which means I've done at least two things right in this thread.

1) Made a point

2) Made a good point

There's also the bonus of where I pegged you as an idiot.

This puts me firmly ahead of you, who has done nothing but been a clueless fuckstick.

You can keep up the "I wish you'd go away" comments, since it's obvious you'd prefer to not have someone around to call you out on your bullshit. Though, to be fair, a good portion of people were doing that before I was.
 
[quote name='Strell']Yes, I have successfully done that.

Which means I've done at least two things right in this thread.

1) Made a point

2) Made a good point

There's also the bonus of where I pegged you as an idiot.

This puts me firmly ahead of you, who has done nothing but been a clueless fuckstick.

You can keep up the "I wish you'd go away" comments, since it's obvious you'd prefer to not have someone around to call you out on your bullshit. Though, to be fair, a good portion of people were doing that before I was.[/QUOTE]

I'll stop taking the flamebait and respond rationally. Hopefully you can do the same.

My question was: Why do veterans/soldiers deserve blind respect.

Your answer was: They are shot at.

Being shot at is part of their job. Just like risking having a tree fall on you is part of a timber cutter's job. "They are shot at" is synonomous with "their job is to be a soldier." They are very well compensated -- not over compensated mind you, but well compensated, precisely because their job is dangerous.

Edit: I think I should elaborate. You can say "a timber cutter is not shot at" just as I can say "timber doesn't fall within inches of a soldier". Different jobs have different quirks. Soldiers don't have to worry about the same thing my stepdad worries about, my stepdad doesn't worry about the same things a soldier worries about. Differentiating the different quirks of a job does not explain why one deserves any more respect than the other.
 
[quote name='Koggit']
My question was: Why do veterans/soldiers deserve blind respect.

Your answer was: They are shot at.
[/QUOTE]

Nope.

In fact, I never gave you an answer. The closest I got to making any kind of proper point was soldiers cannot be compared to other jobs. And they can't, so there's no need to continue droning on about that.

See, that's the funny thing about argument. I don't have to give any counterexamples if my opponent is making flawed and illogical statements to begin with.

And seeing as how you're full of nothing but terrible claims, there is absolutely no reason for me to offer up anything in terms of a side to take, because then that would leave me open to attack if I start making false statements.

In short, until YOU start making sense, I have absolutely no reason at ALL to make any kind of proper argument. Instead, I can sit here - quite easily, I might add - and just tear apart your ridiculous posts. And since you see fit to continue responding, I'll just continue to call you out on your nonsense, since you've failed to deliver anything reasonable yet.

I encourage you to read my posts and see if you can honestly pick out the "soldiers get shot at" line. And then I encourage you to continue taking up the banner of attempting to compare soldiers to other jobs, since you seem to like that ridiculous notion.
 
[quote name='Strell']There is no other job or occupation in the world that carries the same burden and psychological strain that being a solider and fighting does. NONE.[/QUOTE]

"They're shot at."
 
Wait, WTF was the point of this thread again?

You said that in your experience...except it wasn't your experience. It's your stepdad's. Or your stepmom's.

What experience do YOU have? I'm not talking just in a dangerous field, I'm talking about ANY type of commitment you've ever made, besides being on this board for four years.

The average salary for a bus driver is over $17K. You know what an E-2 makes? About $1K less. So I fail to see how you are trying to compare a bus driver to your average grunt. If I were wanting more salary, looks like I might like driving a bus.

You say your stepdad works offshore. And? Lots of people do relatively dangerous jobs for relatively low pay because they love it, it provides a challenge, or they have to.

Joining the military isn't easy money like you pretend it is. Recruiters use promises of money and education to try and get numbers, but a lot of people never see it. Sure, $55K sounds great to use to go to college. But does it equal out to being a double-amputee or being paraplegic?

I joined the military because it offered a great opportunity to expand my skill set and serve my country. I didn't do it because of the money. Because the money was shit. I got no college funds, and I get no veteran's benefits. After spending a month in the hospital in Oklahoma with about every lung disorder known to man, I didn't even get to say I served my country. My service stands as 'undistinguished.'

Would I do it again? I'd go the Air Force route, but yeah, I'd sign up again. I can't say I'm a veteran, but I can say I signed the papers, and I went off to get trained for war. Because that's what being a soldier is, a warrior. To think anything else is a fallacy.

Take ten seconds out of your life and stop judging things by the lowest denomination. There are some people that do sign up just for the money. But it's a relatively low amount.

So, again, why don't you tell us all of YOUR experience. With, whatever. Do you have anything other than being a keyboard monkey?
 
I worked on the farm with my dad for five years while going to school, before moving to Seattle (cross country, alone) to pursue a higher education while working as a tech at Staples. I'm currently a sophomore. Thanks for asking, Cochese. Way to be an arrogant prick in the process.

You compare salary when the soldier has housing/food/medical/etc. The soldier definitely gets better compensation. More money in their hand? Perhaps not. Compensation is not all about how much money goes into your bank account. Soldiers are well compensated.

Though you, like many here, are skewing my own words in your interpretation. I honestly wanted to discuss this issue with people, but have gotten so terribly fed up with you guys not acknowledging the topic at hand and instead becoming defensive twats and just attacking me. Am I now attacking you? Yeah, because you came in here being a twat. Stop being a twat and I won't call you a twat.

Anyway, my words without being skewed were that not all soldiers/veterans are noble/respectable, not that no soldier/veteran is. You then come in here, bitch and moan, then finish up with...

Take ten seconds out of your life and stop judging things by the lowest denomination. There are some people that do sign up just for the money. But it's a relatively low amount.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you actually do agree with me, it's just hidden beneath your idiocy.
 
[quote name='Koggit']I worked on the farm with my dad for five years while going to school, before moving to Seattle (cross country, alone) to pursue a higher education while working as a tech at Staples. I'm currently a sophomore.[/QUOTE]

Well, of course this qualifies you to look down on veterans. Why couldn't we see this before? Your difficult life of going to school and working at Staples obviously provides the perspective necessary to rip on veterans, those money-grubbers who went and faced gunfire and bombs and all sorts of psychological trauma to protect our country.

By the way, did you know sophomore literally means "wise fool"?
 
Ok time to shoot holes in the money point of the argument.
Private contractors in Iraq make almost three times what the military doing the same job makes. I had a friend who got out making about 35 k and he is going back making 115k. And ironically he says it is easier work as a civilian.
 
[quote name='jlarlee']Ok time to shoot holes in the money point of the argument.
Private contractors in Iraq make almost three times what the military doing the same job makes. I had a friend who got out making about 35 k and he is going back making 115k. And ironically he says it is easier work as a civilian.[/QUOTE]

This is an interesting point, thanks from bringing it in rather civilly. I don't know much about private contractors, but aren't they the best of the best, or can basically anyone get a job with them?


[quote name='elprincipe']Well, of course this qualifies you to look down on veterans. Why couldn't we see this before? Your difficult life of going to school and working at Staples obviously provides the perspective necessary to rip on veterans, those money-grubbers who went and faced gunfire and bombs and all sorts of psychological trauma to protect our country.

By the way, did you know sophomore literally means "wise fool"?[/QUOTE]

Did I say my life was more difficult than that of a soldier? Funny. I don't remember saying that. Rather strange that everyone keeps acting like I did.

Also, I never ripped on veterans, you ignorant douche. I stated that they do not deserve blind respect and admiration, which you have yet to disprove. But please continue resorting to personal insults -- I realize it's all you have left, I won't take that from you.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']This is a train wreck.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I started this thread actually wanting a discussion, but it's clear that won't happen. I let my temper flare on too many occasions in this thread for a rational discussion to take place at this point.

So, yeah, I'm done with this thread. If anyone wants to discuss the issue rationally -- PM me. I promise to be more civil than I have been in parts of this thread.
 
[quote name='Koggit']This is an interesting point, thanks from bringing it in rather civilly. I don't know much about private contractors, but aren't they the best of the best, or can basically anyone get a job with them?



[/QUOTE]

Sometimes it is just about who they know. But for the most part the contractors I have worked with are pretty sharp
 
[quote name='Koggit']Agreed. I started this thread actually wanting a discussion, but it's clear that won't happen. I let my temper flare on too many occasions in this thread for a rational discussion to take place at this point.

So, yeah, I'm done with this thread. If anyone wants to discuss the issue rationally -- PM me. I promise to be more civil than I have been in parts of this thread.[/QUOTE]

You act like a snob, get called out on it, and want to put it all behind you.

For some reason, that doesn't surprise me at all.

BTW, go check out base housing sometime and then tell me how much of a benefit that is.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']You act like a snob, get called out on it, and want to put it all behind you.

For some reason, that doesn't surprise me at all.

BTW, go check out base housing sometime and then tell me how much of a benefit that is.[/QUOTE]

While a lot of base housing is crap. There are some nice bases for it. Especially in the Air Force. My house in Lackland is quite nice and my house in Barksdale was 2,200 square feet.
 
[quote name='Koggit']\Just: Wow.[/QUOTE]
Life is gray, genius; Math is black and white.
 
[quote name='jlarlee']While a lot of base housing is crap. There are some nice bases for it. Especially in the Air Force. My house in Lackland is quite nice and my house in Barksdale was 2,200 square feet.[/QUOTE]

The USAF is by far the best branch to serve in. They give a rat's ass about families, BCT (or whatever they call it) is much easier, and amenities are by far the best.

If I had to do it all over again, I definetly would have been a zoomie.
 
Finally some logical discourse instead of people just flaming Koggit for sticking his neck out and telling it as he sees it, even if it is unpopular.

Koggit, I disagree with you but am on your side...if there are "sides" in this thread. It's dissappointing how many CAGers just jump on a flaming bandwagon while offering nothing to the conversation besides off topic ad hom insults.

On topic:

Your question was basically "Why do vets deserve blind admiration; lots of jobs are dangerous, lots of people do more "honorable" things, (saving lives is surely more honorable than taking them) so why have Veterans Day? They don't deserve blind admiration.

I disagree but I can at least understand what you're getting at unlike a lot of douchebags in this thread (not naming names). Now, unlike a douchebag, I will EXPLAIN WHY instead of just calling you stupid.

Veterans, and all soldiers for that matter, have been extremely important to society to protect nations from outside threats. It is important for our country that they be viewed with honor and reverred so that citizens are motivated extra-monitarily to go into that extremely undesireable profession. It is undesirable because it is very dangerous. Your points about other professions being just as (OR MORE) dangerous are well taken but this is a different kind of danger without the pyschological imprints that can be left on a soldeir. A pizza delivery guy (I was one for 4 years) is not going to suffer the emotional trauma from being attacked by a mugger as a soldier is from being shot at, having his freind die in his arms, killing his first enemy combatant, killing his first civilian...

Moreover many vets in our nation's history knew full well that they were marching into certain death. While this combat scenario was the exception and not the rule, it is the only profession where this will ever happen. There is no other profession where you know it is likely that your entire staff will be killed, and you do it anyway, for your country, for freedom, for the freedom of other nations.

Many vets were very dishonorable, heroine use was rampant in Vietnam, even in WWII people would shoot themselves in the foot for a ticket home, they valued their life more than thier honor, duty, and brothers in arms. These acts were also the exception and not the rule.

SO my answer to your query is two fold:
(1) Its important to honor them so we motivate citizens to enter the profession extra-monitarily.
(2) Veterans and veterans alone suffer a profession where they are expected to sacrifice thier lives if the situation arises, voluntarily (not in an accident but willingly and purposefully).

It is for these reasons that our society accords them this unique honor, even though it is just a job (and true heroes look at their combat actions as "just doing their job"). It is a job we need to keep honored and a job that has costs and horrors that no other job has. I hope this helps you understand. Sorry almost everyone in this thread had to be such a douche.
 
As a fellow member of the US Armed Forces I do not think you understand what Veteran Day is for. To me, it is a day to show the people who is in the military a little gratitude. So shouldn't someone who was forced in the military get a lot more respect? Don't forget what the celebration is for. You can start a topic about how the military isn't noble 100 years ago because people were forced to join, but you cannot say that the people deserve the same bashing.

As for pay, unless yor high ranking, your making minimum wage. And the reason you get paid more is because you need to stay in the service for 10+ years before you can make moderate amount. I only make around 1450$ base pay. Haven't even minus my 100$ medical, 300$ something tax, 100$ dental, 200$+ for food that is worse than high school food, and much more. I wouldn't be making shit if i didnt get paid extra for being overseas.

I tihought it would be kick@$$ to be in the military but it really isn't that special of a feeling anymore. Getting no respect from inside and the outside, working a minimum of 50hr+ a week, assuming i get the weekend off (don't even want to count the hours if i work on weekends), OT is whenever they feel like, can get sent anywhere anytime despite your job.

P.S.
A lot of us isn't doing it for you, the people. We too want that "American Dream" house, that one retirement pay, and help with our college loans. The military isn't jsut an option, it's an opportunity...
 
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