Vote!!!

[quote name='dopa345']Do you pay taxes? They are far too high. Taxpayers have every right to criticize the government for compensating for their inefficient spending by taking out 40% of what we earn.[/QUOTE]
I agree that they can and should be more efficient about spending it, and should lower taxes when it is reasonable to do so as they become more efficient (but when will THAT ever happen at this rate?). But I'm sick of people saying that they hate taxes and wish they didn't exist, because without them no essential government programs would be paid for. I think that's different from what you're saying.

As for Obama, the main problem I have with him is that he wants to unite Democrats and Republicans and take a more moderate stance to attract both parties. That's the last thing we need right now, IMO. The Republicans have complete fubared this country and they need to realize that they fucked up. They should NOT be pandered to by a Democratic presidential candidate. If someone can clarify or correct this for me, I'd be thankful, because from what I understand now, I would not be comfortable voting for him.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']
As for Obama, the main problem I have with him is that he wants to unite Democrats and Republicans and take a more moderate stance to attract both parties. That's the last thing we need right now, IMO. The Republicans have complete fubared this country and they need to realize that they fucked up. They should NOT be pandered to by a Democratic presidential candidate. If someone can clarify or correct this for me, I'd be thankful, because from what I understand now, I would not be comfortable voting for him.[/QUOTE]

So we should have 4-8 years of someone else with a different letter behind their name doing the same thing?
 
[quote name='dopa345']Do you pay taxes? They are far too high. Taxpayers have every right to criticize the government for compensating for their inefficient spending by taking out 40% of what we earn.[/QUOTE]

That's reasonable, but the illogical conclusion that welfare is a substantial portion of this problem is vastly overstated. By my own estimates, the average person would get $70 and some change each year if we completely eliminated AFDC/TANF (I can never remember which is the old name and new name) and other welfare programs. We spend around $21 billion annually on that, which, in the face of a $3 Trillion budget (which does not include the predicted cost of the war in Iraq, and possibly Afghanistan as well), we're talking about 0.67% of what the government spends annually.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, we've spent that same amount of money not on the military as a whole, not on Afghanistan, Korea, Germany, or anywhere else we have a base...but in 2.5 months, in Iraq alone, we spent just around the same amount of money.

In addition, we spend over 63 billion each year keeping people in prisons, which is far more expensive than food stamps.

In addition, the "economic stimulus package," which is also welfare, is intended to be a short term shot in the arm to our receding economy. It's almost 5 times as large as what we spend on "welfare."

Point being, it's easy and convenient to identify "undeserving" people as sopping up the government's largesse. But you wouldn't even be able to buy a PS2, *used*, with the annual savings you would get by taking money back from poor people. I'm not arguing against cutting federal spending, but what I am saying is that attacking the poor, as BigT did, and acting like you, as an individual, will financially feel the difference in your income if it were eliminated, is pure folly. That's also not getting into the number of folks who will end up costing us more as they head to prison once their resources are fully eliminated.

So, sure, cutting spending is a grand idea (but surely not a Republican idea, if we look at the Reagan years and the Bush years. Christ.), but if you want to cut spending, let's talk about cutting it substantially. What do you wanna cut spending on first? The military or prisons?
 
McCain should just get Chenney to be his VP again, the conservative base would eat that shit up. Though they would butt heads over everything.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']McCain should just get Chenney to be his VP again, the conservative base would eat that shit up. Though they would butt heads over everything.[/quote]
Bad idea, Cheney is part cyborg and McCain is father time himself, they could both go after the first argument.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']How classy to use Obama's middle name in a clear attempt to build up the "fear of would-be-muslim names" strategy.

Which policies of his do you not find clear? His focus on reducing spending on prisons and beginning a reemphasis on rehabilitation (which has a demonstrably improved effect on the "revolving door prison" concept that's come about directly as a result of policies that aimed to punish)? His focus on cutting taxes for lower, working, and middle-class Americans? His focus on removing tax loopholes and tax shelters for corporations? His healthcare plan which provides service for those who can't afford it, but it also palatable to the healthcare industry (and insurance/big pharma, to my chagrin)?

My guess is that you haven't bothered to spend half a second looking into what Obama's policies actually are, so you just paint him with the broad clock of "liberal," as your talk radio masters have told you to (lemme guess: you're a fan of Bill Cunningham?), and naturally assume his policies are undesirable. How about you tell me what policies of his you disagree with and why?

Lastly, neither you, nor anyone else in the history of the US is paying anywhere close to 50% in income taxes, so give it up, already.

Besides, after the catastrophic fuckup that was the Bush policy's revision of bankruptcy laws in order to ensure debts are paid back by individuals (which happened, I remind you, a week before it was made clear by the government that United Airlines was not required to pay out the pensions it promised and guaranteed its employees, current and retired alike), there's some recompense that is needed. It's up front "welfare," but you get your choice between a one-time cost and longer-term costs as the compounded effects of poverty and homelessness of a large portion of these individuals drive up your health care costs and the like.

If you hate taxes so much, I have a solution: go get a $7.50/hour job. You'll get all of your income taxes back in full at the start of each year. How nice!

I have another bit of advice: if you hate the idea of a welfare state, then you better mark "RETURN TO SENDER" on your $600 George Bush "go hogwild at the mall!" economic stimulus check. Or, better yet, put it in another envelope with a reimbursement for the $300 welfare check you cashed when you helped elect this dumbfuck into office in 2001.[/quote]

I don't watch TV except for certain sports events and maybe the history or discovery channel once in a while...

As for radio, maybe John and Ken on KFI 640 (LA and OC) or sports talk on the way home.

I did not vote for Bush. I sat out the last election, since there was no candidate I was too excited about, plus I was working the whole day and had no time to get to the voting place (now I'm absentee all the way); this year... McCain, Obama, or Clinton... who really cares... the guys I would like in office (Alan Keyes or Ron Paul) stand no chance.

Getting $600 of money that was previously stolen from you is not welfare.

On Obama: Anyone endorsed by Oprah automatically loses my vote :D. Plus , as has been mentioned, all his speeches just say... "we have to move to the future" "believe in politics of hope," "si se puede" etc. Such slogans are good for brain dead hippies on college campuses to repeat ad nauseum (unfortunately, my alma mater UCLA is big on this crap). But, his speeches really don't provide much insight into his policies. Guys like Alan Keyes and Ron Paul tell you straight up what their plans would be... On issues that Barack has taken a stand in the past through his voting record, I pretty much disagree with almost all of his positions:
*Supports partial birth abortions. As a Catholic, I do not support killing.
*Has pretty much always voted for tax increases including maintaining the estate tax and capital gains taxes. I do not like giving money to a gov't that will largely waste or redistribute it.
*Bigger federal spending in the medical system with a fuzzy idea of how to organize the system. I support small gov't with privatization of industries. I've worked in private hospitals vs. gov't run county hospitals... guess where I'd like to be if I ever need to be admitted.
*Immigration: I don't really know where he stands -- it seems like all he goes back to is "comprehensive immigration reform," whatever that's supposed to mean. He has supported ID/ driver's license for illegals in the past.

As for the points you brought up:
*Spending less money on prisons? Hell, instead of sitting in their cells or working out all day, they should be forced to work hard labor in order to pay for their stay. Send them to Alaska for all I care. They broke their compact with society and by doing so put themselves in a state of war with society, thus forfeiting their rights.

*Tax cuts? When has Obama ever voted for a tax cut? Who is the middle class? Families with an income of
 
[quote name='BigT']the guys I would like in office (Alan Keyes or Ron Paul)[/quote]

:shock:

Getting $600 of money that was previously stolen from you is not welfare.

Well, y'know, rich folks are maxing out at $600, too. And, since they pay more into the government than you do, it's probably money they're entitled to more than you are. Why give back "money that was stolen" equally, when people don't pay in equally?

If you want to help out the person who had the most "money stolen," I'll see if I can find an address for Carl Lindner, Oprah Winfrey (though it appears you don't like her much), Bill Gates, or perhaps Richard Mellon Sciafe...and you can forward your check to them. They deserve it more than you do, don't they?

On Obama: Anyone endorsed by Oprah automatically loses my vote :D. Plus , as has been mentioned, all his speeches just say... "we have to move to the future" "believe in politics of hope," "si se puede" etc. Such slogans are good for brain dead hippies on college campuses to repeat ad nauseum (unfortunately, my alma mater UCLA is big on this crap). But, his speeches really don't provide much insight into his policies.

Yes, yes, that's lovely. I understand that. But he does have a platform, and he does have policies, and they are available for you to read. Go to his website, they're there in good detail. It's one thing to say "he has no platform," and another to say "he doesn't convey his platform on TV." Well, that's a fair criticism, but he's not the only one blathering out motivational speeches and platitudes. Besides, you don't watch TV, right? You should have spent your time, then, reading up on his platform, even if it's just to discover what you're voting against. It's out there, so don't blame him because his stump speeches end up on CNN.

Guys like Alan Keyes and Ron Paul tell you straight up what their plans would be... On issues that Barack has taken a stand in the past through his voting record, I pretty much disagree with almost all of his positions:
*Supports partial birth abortions. As a Catholic, I do not support killing.

Well, you're wrong here. As a Catholic, you support the vague notion of a "just war," I'm sure. As for abortion itself, that's another debate for another time, but it would appear that your choice come November is McCain or nobody. But let's not be so silly as to let a single issue get in the way of voting for a candidate.

As a Catholic, I do not support allowing the poor to remain living in poverty, or the sick to remain uncared for. You don't seem to be too interested in all of that. But I bet I know a dead bearded Jew who is pretty interested in that. ;)

*Has pretty much always voted for tax increases including maintaining the estate tax and capital gains taxes. I do not like giving money to a gov't that will largely waste or redistribute it.

Are you a member of one of the 8,800 households that are subject to the estate tax? Is your inheritance from your parents going to be over 4 million dollars? If so, then you can fear the estate tax, as it taxes 50% of all monies inherited over $4 million. If you inherit $4 million and a dollar, your tax is 50 cents. Of course, if you aren't one of those families in the top of the top of the top 0.1%, you have nothing to be afraid of.

As for a capital gains tax, since people do legitimately earn their sole income on capital gains and investments, I find this as legitimate as you and I being taxed for the jobs we do. But you disagree, and believe the already wealthy deserve more of the money they already have too much of to spend.

*Bigger federal spending in the medical system with a fuzzy idea of how to organize the system. I support small gov't with privatization of industries. I've worked in private hospitals vs. gov't run county hospitals... guess where I'd like to be if I ever need to be admitted.

Hope you can afford it, and I also hope you don't suffer a career-debilitating injury or terminal illness.

*Immigration: I don't really know where he stands -- it seems like all he goes back to is "comprehensive immigration reform," whatever that's supposed to mean. He has supported ID/ driver's license for illegals in the past.

Now, I somewhat agree with you here, but let's be reasonable. We, as a nation, cannot simultaneously control government spending and also have an efficient plan to remove 12-20 million people from the country and deport them. Something needs to be done one way or another, and while I'm not wholly in favor of an amnesty-based solution, it's really the only reasonable direction to take it, even if it's done grudgingly. If done in concert with securing the southern border, that's fine. By itself, though, it would encourage even more illegal immigration en masse. Perhaps we can also levy disgustingly steep fines for companies that hire illegal workers. fuck 'em. Put 'em out of business for "violating their compact with American society." Right? Right.

I'm also more concerned, speaking of people "taking our jobs," with corporations moving call centers and manufacturing overseas. But, hey, it helps out those poor, downtrodden folks whose incomes depend on capital gains, so if it puts food on their table, then great! ;)

As for the points you brought up:
*Spending less money on prisons? Hell, instead of sitting in their cells or working out all day, they should be forced to work hard labor in order to pay for their stay. Send them to Alaska for all I care. They broke their compact with society and by doing so put themselves in a state of war with society, thus forfeiting their rights.

Several points:
1) How is that related, in any way, to spending less on prisons?
2) You've overlooked my point in favor of the oft-dispelled notion that making prison even more unpleasant will actually deter them from committing later crimes. When you have rearrest and reincarceration rates over 65% and 47%, respectively, coupled with 600K+ leaving prison every year, you need to develop a more reasonable plan to prepare for the fact that these people are moving back into your neighborhood at some point.

*Tax cuts? When has Obama ever voted for a tax cut? Who is the middle class? Families with an income of
 
[quote name='mykevermin']

Now, I somewhat agree with you here, but let's be reasonable. We, as a nation, cannot simultaneously control government spending and also have an efficient plan to remove 12-20 million people from the country and deport them. Something needs to be done one way or another, and while I'm not wholly in favor of an amnesty-based solution, it's really the only reasonable direction to take it, even if it's done grudgingly. If done in concert with securing the southern border, that's fine. By itself, though, it would encourage even more illegal immigration en masse. Perhaps we can also levy disgustingly steep fines for companies that hire illegal workers. fuck 'em. Put 'em out of business for "violating their compact with American society." Right? Right.

![/QUOTE]

now that romney is gone all we have is a bunch of softies on immigration. (we all know huckabee wont get the nod). so now it looks like ill be voting for mccain or obama (depending on who gets the dem nomination). the lesser of two evils wins again.
 
Alan Keyes dishoned his lesbian daughter. I could never vote for a guy who lacks that sort of compassion. I'd like to point out that not even Dick Cheney is that cold. Just for the record.
 
Those of you whining about Obama's speeches having no substance and being all abstracts....Does anyone remember Lincoln or Roosevelt for nuanced speeches on tax policy or government spending? Of course not. They're remembered for "Four score and seven years ago..." and "We have nothing to fear but fear itself." Specifics are important and Obama has articulated those specifics on his Web site and in countless other places. Hell, the guy wants to have the new healthcare planning broadcast on C-SPAN (which may or may not be a good idea). But there is a time for specifics and there is a time for assuaging the fears of a wounded nation, and I think Obama has shown he has a perfect understanding of when those times are. It's not his fault if Hillary couldn't inspire a fish to swim.
 
I can't wait for a new president. I can't stand watching Bush speak anymore.

obama_LG.gif
 
Though I hate the man (personally and in his capacity as president) I actually enjoy watching him speak (if you can call it that) becasue I like watching people make themselves look stupid.
 
OK, I was thinking about this, and I have a few minutes.

Consumption tax - excellent when the economy is up and people are buying stuff left and right. But right now? Sure, lower income people have a much higher proportion of disposable income (or, better put, they don't put any money away). But they aren't the ones paying taxes anyways. What you actually do is either take more money away from them, or they wise up and start watching what they spend.

Meanwhile, the CPAs and the IRS employees are looking for other lines of work.

So, a consumption tax helps a down economy how?

Apologies if my reasoning is off, I didn't do any research into it.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']
Meanwhile, the CPAs and the IRS employees are looking for other lines of work.
[/QUOTE]

CPAs don't just do tax. They'll be needed for audit/assurance/corporate accounting and other areas that would need jobs with this new type of tax.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']CPAs don't just do tax. They'll be needed for audit/assurance/corporate accounting and other areas that would need jobs with this new type of tax.[/QUOTE]

It won't replace the revenue they lose. And lets not forget the HR Block employees, etc.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']It won't replace the revenue they lose. And lets not forget the HR Block employees, etc.[/QUOTE]

I don't get it... so don't simplify the tax code so accountants and IRS people can still have jobs?
 
[quote name='dopa345']I don't get it... so don't simplify the tax code so accountants and IRS people can still have jobs?[/QUOTE]

I'm making a counterpoint that the consumerists say that the economy will be better off. They aren't centered in reality.
 
[quote name='dopa345']I don't get it... so don't simplify the tax code so accountants and IRS people can still have jobs?[/QUOTE]

We'll still have jobs. I'm going into audit anyway, not tax, and the accounting field is still growing a lot thanks to Sarbanes-Oxley.
 
Listen, in the end, it's not a matter of who wants to help the poor or disadvantaged or who wants the country to succeed vs. those who don't. Rather, it is a question of what means we should take to that end.

I personally believe in a small limited federal government and lean more towards states' rights rather than a powerful overlord. Obviously, the actions of the Republican party over the last few years have been inconsistent with this philosophy. Of the current Republican candidates, I agreed more with the ideas of Ron Paul than anyone else. Since I was voting in the Republican primary, I did not research Obama's policies in depth since he wasn't even on my ballot yet. Unfortunately, by the time California came around, Ron Paul had pretty much already been realistically eliminated... so I voted for Romney > McCain.

Well, y'know, rich folks are maxing out at $600, too. And, since they pay more into the government than you do, it's probably money they're entitled to more than you are. Why give back "money that was stolen" equally, when people don't pay in equally?

If you want to help out the person who had the most "money stolen," I'll see if I can find an address for Carl Lindner, Oprah Winfrey (though it appears you don't like her much), Bill Gates, or perhaps Richard Mellon Sciafe...and you can forward your check to them. They deserve it more than you do, don't they?

Sending out $600 to people is inefficient and slow... I'd prefer a tax credit or tax reductions in the future. Nevertheless, in principle, I do not agree with taxing income. Not only is it an invasion of privacy, but it goes against the anti-tyrannical principle upon which this country was founded. If I would have wanted someone to take a piece of my income, I would have moved to a Communist country.

Well, you're wrong here. As a Catholic, you support the vague notion of a "just war," I'm sure. As for abortion itself, that's another debate for another time, but it would appear that your choice come November is McCain or nobody. But let's not be so silly as to let a single issue get in the way of voting for a candidate.

As a Catholic, I do not support allowing the poor to remain living in poverty, or the sick to remain uncared for. You don't seem to be too interested in all of that. But I bet I know a dead bearded Jew who is pretty interested in that. ;)

One of the reasons that I sat out the last election was that I have not supported the war from the start and especially after the putative WMDs were never found. I will support wars if a see a justification for it, but in this case I saw none... other than the obvious:
1) Wars are very profitable for certain people. I have some mixed feelings about this because many of my family members are engineers/scientists whose business relies on defense contracts. I can tell you, the last few years have been very profitable for them. Yet, they have been even more profitable for the big CEOs of these companies and the bankers who finance the war (they make a killing just by moving around money).
2) Shift the balance of power in the middle east: it is no secret that the USA supports Israel very strongly and castrating Iraq is a step to making Israel the predominant power in the region, for better or worse...

True conservatism is not about expensive wars that put the country into both a monetary and human debt. I liked Ron Paul on this issue and had to disagree with Alan Keyes that as a superpower, we have a moral obligation to free countries such as Iraq.

Are you a member of one of the 8,800 households that are subject to the estate tax? Is your inheritance from your parents going to be over 4 million dollars? If so, then you can fear the estate tax, as it taxes 50% of all monies inherited over $4 million. If you inherit $4 million and a dollar, your tax is 50 cents. Of course, if you aren't one of those families in the top of the top of the top 0.1%, you have nothing to be afraid of.

As for a capital gains tax, since people do legitimately earn their sole income on capital gains and investments, I find this as legitimate as you and I being taxed for the jobs we do. But you disagree, and believe the already wealthy deserve more of the money they already have too much of to spend.

While I will likely not be recieving such a sum from my parents, I disagree with this in principle. The money has already been taxed many times during life. Supporting this shows the same mentality of envy and class warfare upon which Communism was founded. Plus, the very rich people can afford this or can afford lawyers who can get around this. They are locked in. What this really prevents is the rise of anyone from the high middle class into the elite over the generations. Let's say you have a small business, savings, and a house... it is very conceivable that you may have ~8 or 9 millioin in assets. Then your children get stuck with a bill of 2-3 million, which may force them to sell the business.

Hope you can afford it, and I also hope you don't suffer a career-debilitating injury or terminal illness.

You're mixing two separate arguments here. Health care for the poor is unsustainable because of noncitizens? Hardly. Besides, if you're a physician, you should know about the correlation between medical costs and preventative care (the more of the latter, the less of the former).

You know what I have a hard time affording? Insurance that is making money hand over fist and barely compensates for the few times I've been in the hospital in recent years.
On the whole medical issue. From what I have seen in county and VA hospitals, the gov't is totally incapable of running a medical system. It is basically the DMV meets healthcare. There is little accountability, nurses can sit around doing nothing and it's nearly impossible to fire or reprimand them. Many physicians don't really care anymore after years of exposure to such a system.

Another big issue here that I've seen is that through our strange medical insurance system all costs are abstracted and people do not see first hand how much medical care actually costs. They view it as a right and not as a service industry, which in essence, it is.

I would support insurance plans that are truly for emergencies: high deductible and low premiums. Thus, if a catastrophe happens, you will be covered; that's all that the vast majority of people need. Why do you need insurance for day to day small problems... you still pay a copay and all that creates is a big bureaucracy and hands power over to the insurance companies and Medicare who guide how medicine is practiced by setting up reimbursement.

As far as prevention is concerned: we do a terrible job! horrible! It is mainly a public health issue. I mean, you can hand out aspirin, statins, fish oil, beta blockers, and ACE inhibitors to ppl with heart disease in the office... but ideally, we would get the message out earlier for people to exercise and construct a good diet... but with all the fast food advertisements all over the place, it is difficult. Also, our food pyramid is a farce created by the farming industry to promote more grain consumption and physicians are not trained at all in nutrition (seriously, I remember getting like 2 lectures and 1 assignment... and that's higher than the national avg.)

Another big issue is that much of the spending on health care occurs in the last few days of one's life.... it pains my heart to see 80 or 90 y/o ppl in the ICU for months with tubes sticking in every orifice and vein and 0% chance of survival, but the family still presses on requesting full code status. Please, this is not a pleasant existence.... DNR/DNI ftw!

The county health care system in southern California is overwhelmed with illegal aliens... seriously, I am surprised if I see a person who speaks English... it is good for medical training because you have a large willing population on which to train, but its probably not a good thing in terms of maintaining the solvency of the health care system.


...that was way too long winded :) I appologize for grammatical errors in advance... no time to proof read...
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']We'll still have jobs. I'm going into audit anyway, not tax, and the accounting field is still growing a lot thanks to Sarbanes-Oxley.[/QUOTE]

Right, but those accountants who primarily do individual's taxes aren't just going to up and find revenue to take it's place...not with CPAs who do it primarily, and with other people trying to get in on the action as well.
 
[quote name='pittpizza']I've never understood why Huckabee was even a fuckin candidate.

SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE = NO MINISTERS AS PRESIDENT!!

This fuckin nation with it's bible-thumpin christians piss me the fuck off. It's why bush won.
[/QUOTE]

Since when does separation of Church and State mean that we restrict who can run for president? I am not in favor of Huckabee, by a long shot, but he has the right to run, just as any American that meets the requirements of the job does.

And if Huckabee did violate the separation, then we as the American people reserve the right to get him out of office.

[quote name='pittpizza']Though I hate the man (personally and in his capacity as president) I actually enjoy watching him speak (if you can call it that) becasue I like watching people make themselves look stupid.[/QUOTE]

Are you speaking about Obama? (since the SNES Obama art is right above this post) Could you share why you hate him both personally and his capacity as president?
 
It's early to say with certainty, but it appears Obama has the Maine caucus locked up, which would give him 4 of 4 Democrat primaries over the weekend, coupled with an approximate tie with Clinton on Super Tuesday.

Add that to Clinton's bolstering her own campaign with her own money ($5 million strong, which, while a lot, wasn't the $35 million Romney used to fail), and her recent firing of her campaign manager...and it (again, early to say) appears that Obama does have the momentum to start pulling ahead in the primaries.

HUZZAH.

EDIT: BigT, I appreciate your response and have read it - I'll try to get to it at another point, though.
 
All these stupid lesbians and mexicans voted for Hillary in California! Boooooo!
How stupid is this process? It seems like Hillary is picking up all the Super Delegates.:whistle2:$

Mccain looks like something out of Batman. Is he wearing a mask?
 
[quote name='HuppSav']All these stupid lesbians and mexicans voted for Hillary in California! Boooooo!
How stupid is this process? It seems like Hillary is picking up all the Super Delegates.:whistle2:$

Mccain looks like something out of Batman. Is he wearing a mask?[/quote]

super delegates can change who they are voting for, plus there are still a lot of undecided super delegates.


I just hope that Obama doesn't win all the smaller states followed by Hillary taking the remaining big 3, it would just extend this tedious process.
 
[quote name='dwhelan']

Are you speaking about Obama? (since the SNES Obama art is right above this post) Could you share why you hate him both personally and his capacity as president?[/quote]

Huckabee certainly has the right to run, he just has no business doing it as America does not support a state-sponsored Religion, which any priest/minister, whether intentionally and consciously or not, would inflict.

And no you're mistaken, my earlier post was in reference to the idiot son of an asshole, not Obama.
 
[quote name='HuppSav']All these stupid lesbians and mexicans voted for Hillary in California! Boooooo!


[/QUOTE]

There's that all-inclusiveness of the Democratic Party we've been hearing about.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00020

So, the Senate are a bunch of wimps (thanks, Dems!) and approved retroactive telecom immunity for allowing the government to spy on you.

You can see who really wants this election by looking at who's in the Senate that is running for president (and stands a chance at the nomination), and actually VOTED yesterday.[/quote]



its sad that i dislike both parties and i only support the party i dislike less
 
[quote name='pittpizza']Huckabee certainly has the right to run, he just has no business doing it as America does not support a state-sponsored Religion, which any priest/minister, whether intentionally and consciously or not, would inflict.[/quote]Not necessarily. I'm having trouble thinking of a Saskatchewan premier who wasn't a priest/minister/Grand Archdeacon of the All-Seeing Eye, and it doesn't really show. I'm very sensitive to the issue, and even I've gotta admit that the best leader we've ever had was a Baptist minister.

[quote name='pittpizza']And no you're mistaken, my earlier post was in reference to the idiot son of an asshole, not Obama.[/quote]
Alright, folks, that's a rap. He's hit his quota for NOFX quotes this week. We'll pick it up on Monday, yeah?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00020

So, the Senate are a bunch of wimps (thanks, Dems!) and approved retroactive telecom immunity for allowing the government to spy on you.

You can see who really wants this election by looking at who's in the Senate that is running for president (and stands a chance at the nomination), and actually VOTED yesterday.[/QUOTE]
Saw this in the WSJ. Poor Chris Dodd. Though I didn't see who actually voted yes and no.

Nice to know I have another reason to hate McCain. What a douche. And Clinton and Obama are slightly lesser douches for not voting at all, but they are still douches for not voting on this important issue. What makes me think they'd vote yes if they did vote, and they didn't want to piss off supporters, so they just didn't vote?

God, elections really are between Giant Douches and Turd Sandwiches, per South Park.
 
BigT I must applaud you. Nice to find a fellow like minded person.

My stance on issues:
Pro-Choice in that I'm Pro-Common Sense. T you may believe in life and so do I but I'm realistic. I know abortions will still occur and I'd rather at least one of them live not both of them dying. Dude just think for a second. Is having your principle worth it if facts don't support it in the real world? Getting Abortion illegal won't make it go away, more women will just die from unsafe one's.
Health Care. I'm big on preventative one's. This includes following a healthy diet and using Herbs and other things to treat oneself for most illnesses. I don't believe in using Chemo to treat Cancer. I think it's the equivalent of using a sledgehammer to swat a fly. Seriously going natural is the best choice except in the obvious common sense antibiotic shot treatments, Chickenpox, Malaria, etc.
The big reason why we're in as bad a straits as we are in Health Care is all the shit being poured into the environment and people's diets. This means you should almost always avoid canned food and packaged products except for the obvious, sugar, flour and I might be missing one. I would also advise avoiding GMO's as I consider them poisons created by the Pharmaceutical Industry.
The big thing I come down to on Health Care is twofold. One, for profit Hospitals should be made illegal. This is not to say that it should be government hospitals. I believe non for profit Corporations should run Hospitals. Hospitals should not be run with the same Capitalist model everything else is run with. The idea of a hospital is you're suppose to treat, to HEAL people, not so much make the bill the top priority as this inherently conflicts with what I just put up earlier. Am I saying the Hospitals should be free? I re-iterate they should be run by non-for-profit Corporations. In the process I think you get the most efficiency and lowest cost as well. Also being not-for-profit I believe cheaper cures would start to become more prevalent for low income families truly making Health Care more accessible to everyone.
The problem now is I suspect Pharma spends millions if not billions funding Medical Schools so how much are they being brainwashed to think drugs are good and natural cures are lunacy. Part of the Stem Cell debate I suspect is fueled by money made by the Pharmaceutical Industry making money off patents on these things which shouldn't be possible to cure diseases that can be cured by plants.
As for my political stance I'm an Old School Libertarian who believes in the complete deregulation of Corporations. With this no more mergers should be allowed and Corporations can only be around for 30 years, 35 years if working on a Public Works project at the time. After this the assets would be liquidated and money distributed evenly according to the number of shares each person had.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00020

So, the Senate are a bunch of wimps (thanks, Dems!) and approved retroactive telecom immunity for allowing the government to spy on you.

You can see who really wants this election by looking at who's in the Senate that is running for president (and stands a chance at the nomination), and actually VOTED yesterday.[/QUOTE]

while i dont care for mccain too much, or his position on this bill, i am glad to see that he is still voting on on measures during the campaign, unlike some other candidates...
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']Saw this in the WSJ. Poor Chris Dodd. Though I didn't see who actually voted yes and no.

Nice to know I have another reason to hate McCain. What a douche. And Clinton and Obama are slightly lesser douches for not voting at all, but they are still douches for not voting on this important issue. What makes me think they'd vote yes if they did vote, and they didn't want to piss off supporters, so they just didn't vote?

God, elections really are between Giant Douches and Turd Sandwiches, per South Park.[/QUOTE]

Obama did vote 'yea' to rescind telecom immunity. The only nonvoting Senators were Clinton and Lindsey Graham.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Obama did vote 'yea' to rescind telecom immunity. The only nonvoting Senators were Clinton and Lindsey Graham.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I thought he supported getting rid of the immunity when Dodd was on his quest to filibuster the bill. But that link says he didn't vote in the final vote for the bill. Is that correct?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']That's fuckin' weird. He was a 'yea' yesterday. I wasn't hallucinating.

fuck. They're both bastards.[/QUOTE]

I've found what happened:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00015#top

Compare to this:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00020

Obama did INDEED vote yea- to amend the bill to not include retroactive immunity after the bill was passed. He did not vote at all on the initial passage of the bill, but he did indeed vote when an amendment was brought up. There was about a 3.5 hour passage of time between the two votes- perhaps Obama couldn't make the initial vote? Meanwhile, Hillary didn't bother on either vote.

Well, my opinion of Obama is restored.
 
I see. Well, I'd like Obama to have voted no rather than not voted on the measure itself. I'm furious with how fuckin' spineless the Democrats are here, voting for all this Republican police state bullshit.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I see. Well, I'd like Obama to have voted no rather than not voted on the measure itself. I'm furious with how fuckin' spineless the Democrats are here, voting for all this Republican police state bullshit.[/QUOTE]

Same, but I'm glad he at least voted for the amendment. I'm sick of how spineless the Dems are too, it really pisses me off. I'm glad there's at least a few Dems out there who actually give a shit (Dodd, etc), but they are far too few.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I see. Well, I'd like Obama to have voted no rather than not voted on the measure itself. I'm furious with how fuckin' spineless the Democrats are here, voting for all this Republican police state bullshit.[/QUOTE]

They're pussies Myke what do you expect? Remember when they were voted in talking about getting us out of Iraq, some may have mentioned impeaching Bush? WTF did all that talk go? Oh I remember, it's because they're fucking spineless. Just like how Carter apologized after calling Bush the worst President in history. He should've said no and "That's what I think.". If that was a Republican politician saying that about a Democrat and was asked to apologize they'd just shrug it off and ignore it.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I see. Well, I'd like Obama to have voted no rather than not voted on the measure itself. I'm furious with how fuckin' spineless the Democrats are here, voting for all this Republican police state bullshit.[/QUOTE]

thats how the dems roll, vote for the war, the patriot act, wire tapping, whatever. but their "against" it. i really wish obama would have voted against that measure because he might actually be able to convince me he wants change and hope, but not voting at all, cmon...
 
[quote name='Sarang01']Just like how Carter apologized after calling Bush the worst President in history.[/QUOTE]

No, he should have apologized. Jimmah was one of the worst we've ever had, hands down. Most of you kids wouldn't know that.
 
I guess the democrats don't care about privacy rights either.

Hey, everything is good as long as it makes us safer right?

The only people who don't want thier phones tapped or e-mails read are people who have something to hide right?
 
[quote name='pittpizza']I guess the democrats don't care about privacy rights either.

Hey, everything is good as long as it makes us safer right?

The only people who don't want thier phones tapped or e-mails read are people who have something to hide right?[/quote]

You better hope so. The Feds are on their way. Say hi for me!

Incidentally, I'm assuming everyone and their cousin has seen the Yes We Can video by this point. But have you seen the McCain version?
 
[quote name='Sarang01']BigT I must applaud you. Nice to find a fellow like minded person.

My stance on issues:
Pro-Choice in that I'm Pro-Common Sense. T you may believe in life and so do I but I'm realistic. I know abortions will still occur and I'd rather at least one of them live not both of them dying. Dude just think for a second. Is having your principle worth it if facts don't support it in the real world? Getting Abortion illegal won't make it go away, more women will just die from unsafe one's.
[/QUOTE]

This a complicated issue. Trust me, I have seen (a few) abortions first hand and I know the realities of the situation through working in womens' clinics. Nevertheless, my point is that this should not be a government sanctioned/sponsored activity. This sends or implies a message that irresponsible activity can be wiped clear. I believe that people should take personal responsibility for their actions and if they have a lapse in judgment, they should strive for personal redemption through their own efforts and hard work. Of course this whole issue is part of a larger societal problem in which the media promotes hedonism and frivolity at the expense of more worthwhile pursuits.

The argument about both mother and child dying in a back alley abortion is an interesting one. I honestly don't know the comparative statistics for mortality rates in "back-alley" abortions (which often weren't that back-alley), vs. medical/surgical abortions, vs. pregancy carried to term. None of them are benign... I'll have to look up the stats... In either case, some societal prevention-type solution needs to be implemented to decrease demand.

The argument that making an abortion illegal will not make it go away can be applied to any law. Making murders or stealing illegal does not make them go away, but they are still illegal... and they harm another party.

Health Care. I'm big on preventative one's. This includes following a healthy diet and using Herbs and other things to treat oneself for most illnesses. I don't believe in using Chemo to treat Cancer. I think it's the equivalent of using a sledgehammer to swat a fly. Seriously going natural is the best choice except in the obvious common sense antibiotic shot treatments, Chickenpox, Malaria, etc.
The big reason why we're in as bad a straits as we are in Health Care is all the shit being poured into the environment and people's diets. This means you should almost always avoid canned food and packaged products except for the obvious, sugar, flour and I might be missing one. I would also advise avoiding GMO's as I consider them poisons created by the Pharmaceutical Industry.
The big thing I come down to on Health Care is twofold. One, for profit Hospitals should be made illegal. This is not to say that it should be government hospitals. I believe non for profit Corporations should run Hospitals. Hospitals should not be run with the same Capitalist model everything else is run with. The idea of a hospital is you're suppose to treat, to HEAL people, not so much make the bill the top priority as this inherently conflicts with what I just put up earlier. Am I saying the Hospitals should be free? I re-iterate they should be run by non-for-profit Corporations. In the process I think you get the most efficiency and lowest cost as well. Also being not-for-profit I believe cheaper cures would start to become more prevalent for low income families truly making Health Care more accessible to everyone.

Preventative care is great and should be encouraged at every step. More vegetables and exercise and fewer grains and processed foods would be ideal.

In terms of cancer treatment: chemo, radiation, and surgery are pretty much all we've got. There are no proven alternatives, except for a few targeted therapies.

Our healthcare system is problematic. Most hospitals are in effect better than non-profit because they lose money chronically: Cedars Sinai loses money, UCLA loses money, etc. They do have large endowments, so they can keep running. Many other hospitals are truly nonprofit.

The big issue is that we use too many expensive tests and interventions that aren't necessarily helpful:
E.g., 98 yo demented female comes to the ER after passing out... she gets resuscitated... then gets worked up for possible causes with CTs, MRIs, and lots of other interventions. Miraculously, she survives and is taken to the ICU... a few weeks later, she goes back to the nursing home completely out of it: Cost $500,000 to $1 million, Benefit????

Unfortunately, many unnecessary tests and procedures are often done because of the insistence of a patient's family or fear of getting sued (see John Ritter: newsflash, when people get aortic dissections they often die, even with ideal treatment). Oh, and thank you John Edwards...

People need to be aware of the extreme real costs behind all this.

The problem now is I suspect Pharma spends millions if not billions funding Medical Schools so how much are they being brainwashed to think drugs are good and natural cures are lunacy. Part of the Stem Cell debate I suspect is fueled by money made by the Pharmaceutical Industry making money off patents on these things which shouldn't be possible to cure diseases that can be cured by plants.

Pharma's influence in academic centers is variable. At some centers it has pretty much been banned (e.g., no more free lunches :cry:) and places rely on naming right for school income: Ronald Reagan Hospital at UCLA, Keck School of Medicine at USC, David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA, etc. Otherwise, it is limited to free pens or food. The current trend is also to spend more money on direct to customer advertising. Then patients come in to the doctor asking for various drugs for sleep, fatigue, ED, etc. Good times. There's no real overt "brainwashing" going on at schools that I've ascertained... (Is it treachery or incompetence... who knows) drugs aren't ideal, but they're what has been studied. Natural cures, while they'd be great, are simply not studied well... pharma has little incentive for this, but what about all the supplement companies in Utah... get them to study the cures. Plus, in many cases procedures and surgeries are needed in addition to meds.
 
Non partisan all the way bitches. Everyone should try it! Bush has nuked the Republican party with an H bomb and you fools aren't even aware of it.
 
bread's done
Back
Top