wanted to get some advice/thoughts on paypal dispute.

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111111

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here's the situation. i sell my extra psp online. i send it to the guy with insurance that covers 200 dollars. i have the insurance receipt and the post office receipt with me of course. the guy decides to file a claim on paypal. i give him the insurance number and i told him it's been sent and i can scan it for him. and i told him to cancel the dispute. right now it seems like a cat and mouse game cuz he's saying stuff like "oh but this isn't a tracker??? i need something else than this cuz i dont know if you sent it or not"

i replied back, i can scan both receipts to show i sent items and it shows the weight.
tomorrow night i'm planning to call the guy if he doesn't cancel because it's been about 3 days of him still not cancelling the dispute.

will insurance be enough proof? or should i go ahead call paypal on tuesday and tell them the situation?
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thanks for the thoughts and advice guys.
 
If he filed a claim, Paypal would have already emailed you asking for proof you mailed it.

If they did, you would give them the tracking number that can be looked up online so that they can verify it.

If you don't have tracking, or it's not viewable online, you have already lost.

Delivery Confirmation is like 45-55 cents extra and is all you need for proof. We get 1-2 Paypal Chargebacks a year, and all Paypal does is ask us if we can prove we shipped the item. We respond with the DC number, and Paypal always rules in our favor.
 
Paypal won't bother with you unless you send a dc#. If you don't have one and the guy does not cancel the dispute then you have a 100% guaranteed chance of losing the dispute.
 
auction link?

Take the insurance # to the post office - if its one of the blue slips, even though you cant view tracking online, they have a record of the item. If they say its been delivered, then the guy decided to scam you as soon as he saw it didnt have DC. In that case, you may be able to bluff with mail fraud.

Either way, if he doesnt cancel the dispute you will lose the paypal claim. Get ready to file for insurance. BTW, why on earth would you get insurance and not DC?
 
A lot of people think insurance is all you need. My father has about 1200 feedback selling antiques and gets insurance and thinks that covers him. I've tried to tell him he needs confirmation but he says "Oh, I didn't know that", then proceeds to not know that again until the next time I tell him. He got his first chargeback a week or two ago, I'm not sure if he's finally figured it out or not.
 
You need to call Paypal. Be specific with them, and find out what it's going to take to cash in insurance with your Post Office. Paypal hates sellers - go into it with that thought in mind because if you don't treat them like your enemy, they are going to stab you in the back and laugh in your face.
 
Don't worry, insurance over $60 comes with signature confirmation and if the item is lost the post office refunds you not the buyer. Just tell PP that you've filed an insurance claim with the post office and after they have determined that the item has been lost and have issued you a refund you will refund the buyer in full.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']Don't worry, insurance over $60 comes with signature confirmation and if the item is lost the post office refunds you not the buyer. Just tell PP that you've filed an insurance claim with the post office and after they have determined that the item has been lost and have issued you a refund you will refund the buyer in full.[/QUOTE]


Paypal will still take the money out of your account. you need DC insurance wont work. i had someone say they didnt get a game and i told paypal i had insurance onit... I put 150 bucks of insurance on the package and the dude signed for it... Paypal still said that wasnt proof that i sent the item. YOU NEED DC on it and that is the only thing paypal will deal with.. at least for me
 
[quote name='slidecage']Paypal will still take the money out of your account. you need DC insurance wont work. i had someone say they didnt get a game and i told paypal i had insurance onit... I put 150 bucks of insurance on the package and the dude signed for it... Paypal still said that wasnt proof that i sent the item. YOU NEED DC on it and that is the only thing paypal will deal with.. at least for me[/QUOTE]

Well then PP truely is the worst payment serive I have ever run across. It would seem logical that if the post office has proof that someone signed for the package that it was delivered, since oddly enough DC sometimes gets marked as delivered days before the package actually arrives.
 
If he wins the claim and the post office shows it was delivered, you need to get a copy of it, call pay pal, get it faxed to them, then tell him youre filing fraud charges with the post office and anyone else you can think of lol. If you fax them proof of delivery, you can get the backcharge, back-backcharged. I did it with a buyer from France once.
 
[quote name='Stink_Pickle']If he wins the claim and the post office shows it was delivered, you need to get a copy of it, call pay pal, get it faxed to them, then tell him youre filing fraud charges with the post office and anyone else you can think of lol. If you fax them proof of delivery, you can get the backcharge, back-backcharged. I did it with a buyer from France once.[/QUOTE]

yep thanks. that's what i'm going to have to do is go to the post office and talk to them about it.

just wanted to let everyone know i called paypal about it and they said insurance doesn't mean crap. they want the tracker as the 1st form of proof. so the post office has a 3 dollar thing that tells you where and how the items go so you know where it goes specifically. which is what i will have to do.

also the guy on the phone did suggest that to possibly file fraud charges which i already thought of. what i didn't like was i actually asked alot of senarios (however u spell that) and the guy on the phone couldn't answer alot of it at all.

here's the stuff i asked that you guys would want to keep in mind.

ME: so let's say i send with confirmation number and it gets there but the buyer lies and says stuff is missing even though it's not....would the confirmation number cover it?

PAYPAL GUY: i'm not sure i dont know what to tell you i dont decide on this

ME: ok another senario. let's say buyer from canada buys my stuff and i cant put a tracker on it and the guy lies and says it hasn't arrived paypal doesn't cover canada correct?

PAYPAL GUY: oh paypal covers canada. that means seller will lose and will have to pay the canadian guy. not alot of people know this so i would highly suggest putting some kind of tracker even if it costs more.

ME: ok last senario i wanted to ask you. let's say you send something out and the guy receives it and lies about the condition and says it's broken even though the buyer did not buy insurance with it, BUT seller did use DC. Paypal should take the seller side correct?

PAYPAL GUY: i'm not sure about that too it depends what the conditions are.
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Overall i'm really dissapointed how paypal responded to my questions/senarios as paypal and ebay can be very shady. from the way he talked to me it seems like the person that has more feedback they would side with them more. he kinda hinted at that a little bit.

hope this helps everyone so you guys dont get scammed like me.
wish me luck in getting my money back.
 
[quote name='Stink_Pickle']If he wins the claim and the post office shows it was delivered, you need to get a copy of it, call pay pal, get it faxed to them, then tell him youre filing fraud charges with the post office and anyone else you can think of lol. If you fax them proof of delivery, you can get the backcharge, back-backcharged. I did it with a buyer from France once.[/QUOTE]

This is basically what I was going to say.

Without any form of online number to show delivery he will almost certainly win the PP dispute.

But since you have insurance that means you should be refunded. If the post office concludes their investigation and finds that you are not eligible for a refund because the package was actually delivered that should be a VERY strong mail fraud case.

What class of mail did you send it and when did it go out? Should it have definitely arrived by now? (Keep in mind today is the first mail day since Sat.) Of course stuff does get misdirected and even lost, but that's pretty rare in my experience. Happens more with hand written (and therefore possibly hard to read) address labels. Was it a printed address or written by hand? I've had just one package misdirected and I'm pretty sure that was due to my hand written VA looking a little like a WA. (You'd think the zip code would be enough to prevent a cross country misroute anyway, but apparently not :lol: ) Still got to the buyer, but it took an extra 2 weeks in transit.

And on your Qs for the PP guy about SNAD stuff (missing items, or damage) they will pretty much always find with the buyer on that as well in my experience. I really don't think FB plays a big role except maybe if you are a power seller with 5,000+ or something. I had a dispute with a buyer (maybe 30 FB?) who said I sent him a used game instead of a new/sealed game (I have 300+ FB 100%) and they sided with him. I can see their side of it (I guess) as there will be situations where somebody is lying and they really have no way to know who.
 
[quote name='wubb']This is basically what I was going to say.

Without any form of online number to show delivery he will almost certainly win the PP dispute.

But since you have insurance that means you should be refunded. If the post office concludes their investigation and finds that you are not eligible for a refund because the package was actually delivered that should be a VERY strong mail fraud case.

And on your Qs for the PP guy about SNAD stuff (missing items, or damage) they will pretty much always find with the buyer on that as well in my experience. I really don't think FB plays a big role except maybe if you are a power seller with 5,000+ or something. I had a dispute with a buyer (maybe 30 FB?) who said I sent him a used game instead of a new/sealed game (I have 300+ FB 100%) and they sided with him. I can see their side of it (I guess) as there will be situations where somebody is lying and they really have no way to know who.[/QUOTE]

thanks stink pickle and wubb. i'm alot more at ease with this situation cuz i know now i can get some kind of proof.
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i wanted to update the situation....the guy FINALLY responds to my email like after 4 tries. he's basicly saying he'll cancel the claim once item is received "yea right like i'll take his word on it".

i know this sounds really bad but i wanted to stick it to him also. i was thinking of sending another package today filled with crap to him and slap on a DC number with priority. that way the package will arrive before the dispute ends.

i know i know that is horrible but it's an easy way out. what do you guys think?
 
1. You'd be no better than him, if he actually does have the package and is just scamming you. (Which we don't know at this point either way.)

2. You'd be commiting mail fraud. If the guy is really clever he'd take it to the PO and open it up in the presence of a postal employee. Say hi to the postal inspectors for me.

There may be ways to avoid #2, but really you shouldn't impugn your integrity over this.
 
[quote name='111111']he sent money 1/08 and made a complaint 1/12. [/QUOTE] Impatient *****. There's really nothing you can do except, if he says "did not receive item", call the USPS with the insurance claim, and they will start investigating the guy's claim. They will quickly feret out if he was lying.


BTW, paypal is very slow in resolving disputes. That might work in your favor, so just wait until the last day to respond, and say "no tracking number" and "I have insurance/proof of shipment", and then continue waiting.


I don't think your guy is dishonest. Just impatient. Once he receives the item, he'll probably apologize & close the dispute. But if not, file for your insurance claim & then he'll be investigated for mail fraud.

Either way, no worries for you. :)
 
thanks wubb you're absolutely right. i'll just go ahead and tell them what's up today.

thanks electric, yea i'm very hopeful that they can investigate this/track it down and own his face.

you guys have made me feel alot better i can finally go get some sleep.
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i will update on what's going on so you guys know the details how to avoid crap like this too.
 
well final update guys. i woke up at 4:30 this morning i check my email and the guy cancelled the claim.

so got my moolah back.
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but i wasn't worried at all after yesterday night. i told the post office of the situation and they said "oh yea we could definitely track it down via insurance right to his door, so if he lied we would definitely be able to find out".

so after they said that i was really confident.

well thanks again to everyone hope the tips from paypal and the post office helps everyone to be a safer seller/buyer online.

sincerely,
al.
 
"oh yea we could definitely track it down via insurance right to his door, so if he lied we would definitely be able to find out".

Hmmm. Maybe insurance really is enough & we don't need tracking?
i check my email and the guy cancelled the claim.
Click to expand...
Did he say WHY he canceled the claim?
 
the guy cancelled the claim cuz he said he finally got the item.
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with paypal they said the best and most effective way is DC. but the post office told me insurance cuz it works both ways. so what i'm doing from now on when i need to sell something big i'm going to do both insurance and DC just to make sure. with insurance it works but it does take longer to process a tracker number through the post office.

that's the bad part about insurance.

EDIT!!!:
i almost forgot! when i called paypal...they told me if item is 250 dollars or over you MUST put a signature confirmation as proof! yea scary huh?
 
[quote name='electrictroy']"oh yea we could definitely track it down via insurance right to his door, so if he lied we would definitely be able to find out".

Hmmm. Maybe insurance really is enough & we don't need tracking?Did he say WHY he canceled the claim?[/QUOTE]

Insurance will be enough to get your money back if the package is really lost or damaged. But in the case of a scam buyer, you'd lose a fraudulent PayPal chargeback and then have to go through the hassle of mail fraud charges to get to the guy after which I'm still not sure you'd actually get any money back. Much easier to just pay the little bit for DC, especially on a $200+ item.

Anyway, glad it worked out for you, 1s. I find that most people are honest, but unfortunately you have to take steps to protect yourself from the 1% or so that aren't.
 
Yeah I guess DC /tracking is the best way to go, to protect yourself from paypal. (Funny...I have to protect myself from paypal! Dumb.)


As for insurance, I hear a lot of sellers self-insure. i.e. Charge $1.00 for each auction, and then if the item is lost/damaged, they'll use that extra money to replace the item.
 
If someone experienced this again and they have proof but they still filed a complaint, all you do is just photocopy the proof (receipt and any other things) and than fax it to PayPal and include the dispute number.

Also, the Post Office also told me that insurance can be tracked, but I think it can only be tracked on their side. I'll have to check and go home and see. But I get DC and insurance if they request insurance. This way, its protected and they can also track it if they want to. Doesnt matter to me cuz they are paying for the shipping and I'm not losing any money.
 
[quote name='iazybandit']If someone experienced this again and they have proof but they still filed a complaint, all you do is just photocopy the proof (receipt and any other things) and than fax it to PayPal and include the dispute number.

Also, the Post Office also told me that insurance can be tracked, but I think it can only be tracked on their side. I'll have to check and go home and see. But I get DC and insurance if they request insurance. This way, its protected and they can also track it if they want to. Doesnt matter to me cuz they are paying for the shipping and I'm not losing any money.[/QUOTE]

i asked them about proof such as receipt and they said no it wont hold. they need proof that it arrived not proof you sent it out. the only proof they will accept is either DC or signature confirmation. or worst case is that 3 dollar thing but that can take a bit for them to track it then you have to fax it to paypal.

Electric:
nope you cannot type in insurance number for tracker i tried and when i told paypal about it they said i would still lose. you would have to personally go to the post office, spend the 3 dollars and get them to track where it's been.

i rarely sell crap online but from now on i'm jacking up shipping price to cover my own butt.
 
[quote name='111111']i asked them about proof such as receipt and they said no it wont hold. they need proof that it arrived not proof you sent it out. the only proof they will accept is either DC or signature confirmation. or worst case is that 3 dollar thing but that can take a bit for them to track it then you have to fax it to paypal.

Electric:
nope you cannot type in insurance number for tracker i tried and when i told paypal about it they said i would still lose. you would have to personally go to the post office, spend the 3 dollars and get them to track where it's been.

i rarely sell crap online but from now on i'm jacking up shipping price to cover my own butt.[/QUOTE]
Well this doesnt really have to do with the insurance/dc slips but more on the faxing and showing proof. But I sold some chrome wheels on eBay. I had some long conversations with the buyer before and after the sale. Well it seemed that the buyer was trying to extort money out of me so he can get it for cheaper.

The IM convo that I printed out and faxed to PayPal was enough for them to find me correct and rewarded me back my money. When the buyer filed a complaint, Paypal put a hold on the full $1400.00. So not only did they take the $1400.00, but at the time, I also lost out on fees from eBay and $200 in shipping.

Trust me, sending them a fax of the photocopied postal receipt and insurance slip would come in handy. It doesnt hurt to spend that extra time to photocopy and fax them the stuff.
 
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