Warning: Your clever little blog could get you fired

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CAGiversary!
Here is a link to this article that I came across on Yahoo!: http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/warningyourcleverlittleblogcouldgetyoufired

Wed Jun 15, 7:00 AM ET

Like a growing number of employees, Peter Whitney decided to launch a blog on the Internet to chronicle his life, his friends and his job at a division of Wells Fargo.

Then he began taking jabs at a few people he worked with.


His blog, gravityspike.blogspot.com, did find an audience: his bosses. In August 2004, the 27-year-old was fired from his job handling mail and the front desk, he says, after managers learned of his Web log, or blog.


His story is more than a cautionary tale. Delta Air Lines, Google and other major companies are firing and disciplining employees for what they say about work on their blogs, which are personal sites that often contain a mix of frank commentary, freewheeling opinions and journaling.


And it's hardly just an issue for employees: Some major employers such as IBM are now passing first-of-their-kind employee blogging guidelines designed to prevent problems, such as the online publishing of trade secrets, without stifling the kinds of blogs that can also create valuable buzz about a company.


"Right now, it's too gray. There needs to be clearer guidelines," says Whitney, who has found another job. "Some people go to a bar and complain about workers, I decided to do it online. Some people say I deserve what happened, but it was really harsh. It was unfair."


Wells Fargo declined to comment, but a spokeswoman said in an e-mail that the company doesn't have a blogging policy.


Blogs are proliferating as fast as a computer virus. According to a report this year by public relations firm Edelman and Intelliseek, a provider of business-intelligence solutions, about 20,000 new blogs are created daily, and an estimated 10 million U.S. blogs will exist by the end of 2005. Together, these blogs link up to create what is known as a blogosphere, a collective Internet conversation that is one of the fastest-growing areas of new content on the Web.


More than 8 million adults in the USA have created blogs, according to two surveys by the Pew Internet & American Life Project, a non-profit research center studying the Internet's social effects. And 32 million Americans are blog readers - a 58% jump in 2004.


Recognizing potential risks


Employers are just beginning to wake up to the potential risks that blogs pose.


"The law is trying to catch up with the technology," says Allison Hift, a telecommunications and technology lawyer in Miami. "This is like what we saw a few years ago with employers passing polices about e-mail. Now we're seeing it with Web logs."


The concerns are myriad. Employees who create blogs set up a direct way to communicate about their company with the public, because customers and clients can stumble across a blog. (Blogs often jump to the top of search engines because they are updated often.) Bloggers may spill trademark or copyright material on their sites, they may post pictures of yet-to-be-released products, and they may libel or slander another employee or a client.


A blogger can even get the ear of Congress. Douglas Roberts, a computer scientist at Los Alamos National Laboratory in Los Alamos, N.M., started a blog (lanl-the-real-story.blogspot.com), and anonymous posters blasted management as incompetent. During a House subcommittee hearing in May, the blog was mentioned in a discussion about the fate of the nuclear research facility.


"I was quite surprised. I had no idea it would be this popular," Roberts says, adding that lab management has been supportive of his blog and that he believes blog policies in general are unnecessary.


Says lab spokesman Kevin Roark: "Open, honest, constructive discussion of issues is a good thing ... (but) the personal attacks were unnecessary and disappointing."


A number of employment lawyers, such as Hift, and bloggers, such as Whitney, are urging companies to enact guidelines and communicate blogging rules to employees. Some companies are doing just that: In May, IBM unveiled blogging guidelines for its 329,000 employees. The guidelines state that employees should identify themselves (and, when relevant, their roles at IBM) when blogging about IBM.


"You must make it clear that you are speaking for yourself and not on behalf of IBM," the guidelines state. They also say bloggers should not use "ethnic slurs, personal insults, obscenity, etc." and that they should "show proper consideration" for "topics that may be considered objectionable or inflammatory - such as politics and religion."

Others such as Microsoft have no formal guidelines specifically on blogging, but do encourage blogging as a way for employees to reach out to customers and clients. Says Jeff Sandquist, a group manager at Microsoft: "It's great. It's instant feedback. ... We give a lot of support to blogging and on how to be a good blogger."

Stifling free speech?

But it's tricky. Some civil libertarians fear blogophobic companies may adopt policies that stifle the free exchange that has made blogs so popular.

"The concern is that it becomes a chilling effect," says Annalee Newitz, a policy analyst for the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a San Francisco-based civil liberties organization dealing with high-tech issues. "We don't want people to feel like ... they can't express their feelings."

Others argue that more explicit guidelines are needed.

"Companies probably need separate policies," says Robert Cox, president of the Media Bloggers Association.

Guidelines, some bloggers say, could even help save jobs. When Ellen Simonetti started her blog chronicling her life and work as a Delta Air Lines flight attendant, she posted some pictures of herself on her site, queenofsky.journalspace.com. There's a shot of her in her blue uniform, bending over an airline seat as her white bra peeks out. A shot of her backside. Another of her in her uniform, sprawled across the tops of the seats of an empty plane. Another shows her eating in a seat.

In October 2004, Simonetti, 30, of Austin was fired, she says, for the pictures on her blog. She has filed a complaint with the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, saying the suspension amounted to discrimination, because male employees with similar online photos were not disciplined. The EEOC case is pending.

"Companies should have policies so that we know if we're breaking the rules," says Simonetti, who is unemployed. "I feel I was mistreated and treated unfairly. I'm fighting for bloggers' rights and free speech."

A Delta spokeswoman declined to comment.

Some bloggers are adding disclaimers saying they don't represent the company, or they are taking precautions not to blog from work. That may be wise: A Society for Human Resource Management survey found that some employers also are looking at job candidates' personal blogs before hiring them.

Legal status unclear

Blogging is so new, lawyers say it's unknown how courts will rule as cases come forward. Bob Blackstone, a Seattle-based employment lawyer, says employees may argue that blogs fall under federal laws that protect labor-organizing activity. They may also argue that their blog content is allowed under certain state laws that bar employers from discriminating against workers for off-duty actions.

Cases continue to climb. Heather Armstrong was fired in February 2002 by the Los Angeles-based software firm where she worked after venting online about the company on her blog, dooce.com. Some excerpts from her blog: Take a two-hour lunch: one hour for the bean burrito, one hour for the nap in the front seat of your car.

Reasons I should not be allowed to work from home:Too many cushiony horizontal surfaces prime for nappage. ... I can lie down underneath my desk, and no one is going to know. No one.

Her case garnered attention and put the blogging world on notice. UrbanDictionary.com now defines "dooced" as losing your job for something you wrote on your online blog.

Both sides now

And Mark Jen, 22, of San Francisco started his blog in January to chronicle his life and new job as an associate product manager at Google. He wrote comments about future potential products and lost his job two weeks later, he says, because of his blog, 99zeros.blogspot.com.

"I figured it would be an easy way to keep in touch with friends and family," Jen says. "I was surprised at the reaction of the company. It was shocking to me."

At his new job at Mountain View, Calif.-based Plaxo, a consumer Internet service for updating and accessing contact information, Jen recently helped draft the company's first-ever blog policy. The policy says, in part, that employees can't violate the privacy or publicity rights of another, can't personally attack employees, authors, customers, vendors or shareholders and can't post material that is "hateful or embarrassing to another person."

Employees who don't follow the guidelines can be fired
 
This story reminded me of the situation that CoreyCubed is going through with Blockbuster Corporate right now with the deals and discussions that he had on this prestigious site.
 
[quote name='onetrackmind']thats fucking retarded... losing your job over some bullshit you write in a blog.[/QUOTE]

I could only imagine what it would feel like to lose your job over a blog. :bomb:

I agree, getting fired for having a different opinion about a company is fucked up. Who needs freedom of speech anyway?

Who knows, maybe journals and diaries better watch it to? :lol:
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']That's why when you make a blog you don't specify who you work for.[/QUOTE]

That's a good idea, but work is part of one's life. To not talk about it feels odd.
 
[quote name='Kain Vincent']That's a good idea, but work is part of one's life. To not talk about it feels odd.[/QUOTE]

Or you could just not let them know it's your blog, and leave it as an anonymous type of deal... just pass the link around and say a friend or something sent it to you.
 
[quote name='onetrackmind']thats fucking retarded... losing your job over some bullshit you write in a blog.[/QUOTE]

Why is it retarted? If you talk shit to you bosses, you would get fired. The people who got fired are people who insulted their their bosses, jobs and customers. They posted it on the internet for anyone to see, they have to accept responsibilty for it. They should either not written about it or kept it anonymous. Its their fault they got fired
 
[quote name='legendarypegasus']Why is it retarted? If you talk shit to you bosses, you would get fired. The people who got fired are people who insulted their their bosses, jobs and customers. They posted it on the internet for anyone to see, they have to accept responsibilty for it. They should either not written about it or kept it anonymous. Its their fault they got fired[/QUOTE]

i talk shit on my bosses and my job all the time. On the scale of things talking shit about your boss/job isn't a big deal. Name one person who hasn't ever complained about their boss/or job and i'll show you a liar. Its a part of life, these people are basically writing about their lives, public or not it doesnt matter. Most people's jobs suck, and they need a way to vent about it.
 
It's true. If you're going to publicly talk trash about your employer, coworkers and/or customers, you can't expect your behavior to go unnoticed and unpunished. If you stood out front of your employer's business and told everyone within earshot how lousy the place was, you'd probably get fired as well.
 
[quote name='Kain Vincent']That's a good idea, but work is part of one's life. To not talk about it feels odd.[/QUOTE]

I've noticed some of the better blogs deal with work related topics but never name company and co-worker names, or discriptive characteristics.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']I've noticed some of the better blogs deal with work related topics but never name company and co-worker names, or discriptive characteristics.[/QUOTE]

I agree with your suggestion. You can discuss work, but you don't have to mention a company's name or co-workers.

BTW, does anyone remember that blog discussing EA?
 
I don't understand how they can fire you for negative comments about work when you aren't even in work. But, firing them for releasing sensitive information (such as new products) obviously would be justified.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']I don't understand how they can fire you for negative comments about work when you aren't even in work. But, firing them for releasing sensitive information (such as new products) obviously would be justified.[/QUOTE]

If I were to post sensitive information in regards to my job, they would not only fire me but bring me up on criminal charges. It's too bad, too, because man have I seen some crazy stuff there.
 
[quote name='legendarypegasus']Why is it retarted? If you talk shit to you bosses, you would get fired. The people who got fired are people who insulted their their bosses, jobs and customers. They posted it on the internet for anyone to see, they have to accept responsibilty for it. They should either not written about it or kept it anonymous. Its their fault they got fired[/QUOTE]

Speaking from the other side of the job fence (i.e. I'm da boss), if one of my employees was complaining about me on a blog, it wouldn't matter to me. The only instance in which I feel I have the right to fire an employee in this case is when that employee was spilling any trade secrets or any upcoming deals my company might be handling. Employees must be held for accountability and spilling any precious info about the company could lead to a loss of money or reputation (which is important in itself since a company's rep is what make it popular which allows it to make money). Personal reputation is a different issue altogether. If an employee insults me (being the boss), it would only be a temporary drop in the company's rep but I wouldn't fire him but I would definitely reprimand him. Even if the company's rep is tarnished from that insult, I can always step down and have someone else take over as the main representative but I'd still run the place. Case in point - Steve Ballmer is the CEO of Microsoft while Billy has 'chairman emeritus' status but we all know Gates still rules the place.

And on another note, if someone hated their job, go find another one. No one is forcing them to work there. Sometimes, the company will fight tooth and nail to get an employee. I don't believe that BS about how 'this is all I know how to do' or 'the job market sucks' or 'I'm getting paid a lot of money so why should I leave?' I'll take each one point by point:

If a job is all you know how to do, then go back to school or get more training in another field. Many companies will foot the bill (as long as you stay with the company for a certain time) or train you directly for internal job climbing mobility. If you don't want to go to school or get training, that's just being lazy.

If the job market sucks so much, why don't you create your own job or start your own company? I did that because I felt there wasn't a major clamor for my particular job field (I did some web and print design as well as some photography before I started a real estate company). It's all about being able to think both in and outside of the box.

If it's about how much money you're making, that's altogether foolish. My own salary is probably less than what a college student would make during the summer. Why do I give myself a low salary? Because I honestly don't need a lot of money and also, it puts me in a lower tax bracket which allows me to pay less taxes (and yes, it's actually legal). People forget the purpose of money. Money is a means to an end. It allows a person to buy what he/she needs to survive and exist. But if you have another way of obtaining what you need to live, then you don't need that much money.

If I need to get from one place to another, you need a car. But who says you need to own it directly? I used my company to buy it. It's listed as part of the company's resources and it's also tax deductible. If I need lunch, I go to McDonalds with my staff for an informal meeting and save the receipts and log the meeting. Result? Deductible company lunches. If I need a place to stay, well, since my company IS all about real estate, I just went through the process of a regular home owner looking for a property using my own company (and I use my salary to pay the mortgage and other bills the company can't legally take). If I have kids (and I'm not sure of that yet, Professor of Pimpology and all ;)), I can hire them as 'waste management' (i.e. throwing out the trash) or 'cleaning staff' (washing the dishes) and give them salaries (instead of an allowance since they'll develop a good work ethic) just for taking out the trash in the office (which happens to be my house). Plus, when it'll look good on a resume that they were able already have a job reference when they decide to strike out on their own. My dog can be listed as security. My cat can be pest control. It boggles my mind how much one can do legitimately with a company that it still surprises me that ppl would rather stay and gripe about their stifling jobs and lives.
 
[quote name='jaykrue']Speaking from the other side of the job fence (i.e. I'm da boss), if one of my employees was complaining about me on a blog, it wouldn't matter to me. The only instance in which I feel I have the right to fire an employee in this case is when that employee was spilling any trade secrets or any upcoming deals my company might be handling. Employees must be held for accountability and spilling any precious info about the company could lead to a loss of money or reputation (which is important in itself since a company's rep is what make it popular which allows it to make money). Personal reputation is a different issue altogether. If an employee insults me (being the boss), it would only be a temporary drop in the company's rep but I wouldn't fire him but I would definitely reprimand him. Even if the company's rep is tarnished from that insult, I can always step down and have someone else take over as the main representative but I'd still run the place. Case in point - Steve Ballmer is the CEO of Microsoft while Billy has 'chairman emeritus' status but we all know Gates still rules the place.

And on another note, if someone hated their job, go find another one. No one is forcing them to work there. Sometimes, the company will fight tooth and nail to get an employee. I don't believe that BS about how 'this is all I know how to do' or 'the job market sucks' or 'I'm getting paid a lot of money so why should I leave?' I'll take each one point by point:

If a job is all you know how to do, then go back to school or get more training in another field. Many companies will foot the bill (as long as you stay with the company for a certain time) or train you directly for internal job climbing mobility. If you don't want to go to school or get training, that's just being lazy.

If the job market sucks so much, why don't you create your own job or start your own company? I did that because I felt there wasn't a major clamor for my particular job field (I did some web and print design as well as some photography before I started a real estate company). It's all about being able to think both in and outside of the box.

If it's about how much money you're making, that's altogether foolish. My own salary is probably less than what a college student would make during the summer. Why do I give myself a low salary? Because I honestly don't need a lot of money and also, it puts me in a lower tax bracket which allows me to pay less taxes (and yes, it's actually legal). People forget the purpose of money. Money is a means to an end. It allows a person to buy what he/she needs to survive and exist. But if you have another way of obtaining what you need to live, then you don't need that much money.

If I need to get from one place to another, you need a car. But who says you need to own it directly? I used my company to buy it. It's listed as part of the company's resources and it's also tax deductible. If I need lunch, I go to McDonalds with my staff for an informal meeting and save the receipts and log the meeting. Result? Deductible company lunches. If I need a place to stay, well, since my company IS all about real estate, I just went through the process of a regular home owner looking for a property using my own company (and I use my salary to pay the mortgage and other bills the company can't legally take). If I have kids (and I'm not sure of that yet, Professor of Pimpology and all ;)), I can hire them as 'waste management' (i.e. throwing out the trash) or 'cleaning staff' (washing the dishes) and give them salaries (instead of an allowance since they'll develop a good work ethic) just for taking out the trash in the office (which happens to be my house). Plus, when it'll look good on a resume that they were able already have a job reference when they decide to strike out on their own. My dog can be listed as security. My cat can be pest control. It boggles my mind how much one can do legitimately with a company that it still surprises me that ppl would rather stay and gripe about their stifling jobs and lives.[/QUOTE]

I see an ass-raping from the IRS in your future if you aren't careful. You can get a little creative with taxes, but I would recommend against some of the deductions you were tallking about. Especially hiring the kids as waste management. :lol:
 
These people who have been fired should sue cause they are gonna win millions.

It's one thing to insult an employee or boss to their face, but making a public diary of your life on the net is hardly a reason to get fired. It's like getting fired cause someone told your boss that they overheard you talk shit about them. It's ridiculous.
 
^^read the posts above. jaykrue...interesting.

anyway, i don't blog, don't read blogs. dont' have the time anyway. my impression of blog is doogy houser w/internet. people that post personal stuff online are just asking for it. online confession is just like standing on a soapbox. go to a church and whine.

yes, i read my employer's confidential agreements carefully. i don't even discussion it with immediate family members. the end.
 
[quote name='greendj27']I see an ass-raping from the IRS in your future if you aren't careful. You can get a little creative with taxes, but I would recommend against some of the deductions you were tallking about. Especially hiring the kids as waste management. :lol:[/QUOTE]

Well, if you're a lawyer, we'll talk, but the one I've talked to told me it's within the legal confines of the law so I'm still good. If there was an audit, I doubt they'd find anything of an illegal nature since everything I've done is aboveboard and documented. That's why it pays to log everything and document everything up the ass so there's nothing they can do. Think about it. Who does the IRS hire? Top specialists around the country? Doubtful since the private sector offers so much more money. The IRS receives those ppl who couldn't get into Accenture and other top accounting firms so they're always behind on tax information and aren't as savvy about many tax loopholes. It took the IRS 2 yrs to figure out and close that recent loophole about deductions for vehicles about 3 tons being used to buy Hummers since they could deduct pretty much the whole thing (and in essence get it for free) for the year. It was meant as a way for farmers to get a tax break for farm equipment but the accountants, lawyers and doctors ended up using it mostly. Why? Because for 2 years, the accountants who knew were legitimately using that loophole for all their clients. The thing about Enron is that the stuff they did explicitly broke the boundaries set forth by the law. The loophole I just mentioned doesn't outright break it since they were legitimate qualifications (although probably not specifically mentioned for Hummers) but they were still within the confines of the law. As of now, the deductions i mentioned still exists, if it changes in the future, then you do what any smart animal does - adapt. Find another legal way - because there always is.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']These people who have been fired should sue cause they are gonna win millions.

It's one thing to insult an employee or boss to their face, but making a public diary of your life on the net is hardly a reason to get fired. It's like getting fired cause someone told your boss that they overheard you talk shit about them. It's ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

Wrong.

Bloggers are publishing derogatory comments to third parties. The insulted parties can sue the blogger for libel / defamation and even intentional infliction of emotional distress.

The problem with your analogy is that in the blogger's case, their very action is an admission of their making such statements. There are no third parties accusing them of making any kind of statements. It's published online for all to see.

This all comes down to common sense. Anything you publish online is fair game. Only idiots would think they don't have to suffer the consequences for things said online when a simple IP log can ID anyone hiding behind screen names.
 
"Can I talk to you?" -Bob
"Sure thing" -The boss
"I hate this company, I hate my job, I hate everything here, and I really hate you" -Bob
"Oh that's fine, carry on"

Of course you are going to get fired, you deserve it. Sure the job blows but that's when you shut your mouth up or fucking don't let people figure out who you are! And there are way you can have a pirvate blog entries too. Stupid people should get fired.
 
[quote name='David85']"Can I talk to you?" -Bob
"Sure thing" -The boss
"I hate this company, I hate my job, I hate everything here, and I really hate you" -Bob
"Oh that's fine, carry on"

Of course you are going to get fired, you deserve it. Sure the job blows but that's when you shut your mouth up or fucking don't let people figure out who you are! And there are way you can have a pirvate blog entries too. Stupid people should get fired.[/QUOTE]


So I guess if your boss asks you, "isn't this the greatest job ever? Isn't it awesome working for me?" And you say no, you should be fired. :roll:

Bloggers are publishing derogatory comments to third parties. The insulted parties can sue the blogger for libel / defamation and even intentional infliction of emotional distress.

That is the biggest bunch of politically correct bullshit I have ever heard! Saying your job sucks isn't libel or defamation.

Your boss ins't a god, your lord or your master.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']So I guess if your boss asks you, "isn't this the greatest job ever? Isn't it awesome working for me?" And you say no, you should be fired. :roll:



That is the biggest bunch of politically correct bullshit I have ever heard! Saying your job sucks isn't libel or defamation.

Your boss ins't a god, your lord or your master.[/QUOTE]

Did you read some of the comments that people got fired for? It wasn't "I don't like my job" it was "I take a two hour nap when I should be working." There's a pretty big difference there.

Furthermore, there's a difference between "My job sucks" and "My job sucks because my boss is a retarded monkey." If I were to guess which one would get someone fired, I'd put my money on the second one.

Your argument is "your job sucks isn't a bad thing to say." That's fine, but that's not what the person you quoted was talking about. The person you were responding to didn't say that "my job sucks" is libel or defamation. What person would be defamed? Oh, right. Straw man. My mistake.
 
My only issue would be if he were "blogging" during working hours, then I would be pissed, its one thing to "dis" me on his time, its another on mine.
On a side note, my grandmother worked for the IRS for 35 years, in a division especially focused at small businesses, word of caution. My dad used to call her "the enemy" :)
 
[quote name='ZeroSupporT']My only issue would be if he were "blogging" during working hours, then I would be pissed, its one thing to "dis" me on his time, its another on mine.
On a side note, my grandmother worked for the IRS for 35 years, in a division especially focused at small businesses, word of caution. My dad used to call her "the enemy" :)[/QUOTE]

Only an enemy if you're doing something illegal. ;)
 
Well he certainly isn't running his own Freedom America group of washed up hunters in camo, but he, like most, just hates paying taxes, although he has always done his part.
 
[quote name='ZeroSupporT']Well he certainly isn't running his own Freedom America group of washed up hunters in camo, but he, like most, just hates paying taxes, although he has always done his part.[/QUOTE]

Is your dad a business owner or just has a regular joe type of job? I don't mind paying taxes since everything that I or my staff does is meticulously documented to avoid any misunderstanding about how anything is done. There is no under the table dealings (or if there are, I don't know about it but I trust my staff for the most part) so I'm clean. So clean I'm squeaky.:D
 
Now he is a regular working joe, but before he was managing a division of a pretty large company and was responsible for keeping them clean and passing that info the accountants. So he always hated the extra paperwork.
 
[quote name='ZeroSupporT']Now he is a regular working joe, but before he was managing a division of a pretty large company and was responsible for keeping them clean and passing that info the accountants. So he always hated the extra paperwork.[/QUOTE]

See, that's probably why he views your grandma as 'the enemy'. As the boss of a company, I come under scrutiny every day from ppl as various as the bum on the street asking me for change to leaders of the community and environment. Dealing with the IRS (especially if you've kept your nose clean and have eveything in order) is just par for the course. :D Managing a division isn't the same as running the company itself. As the head of the organization, you're the face (and in turn the scapegoat) of how the company is run. So when things are good you're praised (even when it was the managers and workers under you who did the work) but when things go to shit, you're shat on for doing a lousy job (even when it was the managers and workers under you who did the work). My aunt has had 2 audits and in both cases, she came out clean as a whistle and she's taught me everything I know so I'm confident I can come out clean as well.
 
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