Was Prince of Persia White-washed?

leveskikesko

leveskikesko

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http://kotaku.com/5118490/prince-of-persia-culturally-irresponsible?t=9679358#c9679358

What are we to make of a “Prince of Persia” who talks and behaves like a 17-year-old American mall rat? A “Prince of Persia” with blue eyes, fully Anglicized facial features and what looks like a tan he picked up on spring break? Is it taking a video game too seriously to shrink in distaste from such characterizations? In fairness, the new Prince of Persia does not claim any historical or cultural authenticity; the game is set in a fantastic magical realm rather than in a rendition of any real place. But does that absolve the game of any responsibility?
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Very interesting topic that I'm glad has been brought up by the gamer community. The PoP series has always managed to retain a distinct Persian feel. With this latest installment it has kind of departed from that.

So does this bother you?

I'm not racist against white people by any means or even super-PC, but I'm a bit saddened whenever I see these missed opportunities to properly bring in characters of rarely represented ethnicities. In the end all I want is a little variety...
 
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Honestly, I don't think diversity matters even the slightest bit. Maybe the Prince should be Persian, but if he's not... eh, whatever.
 
after the way the last 2 games sold maybe they felt people would be able to identify more with a white character. and add to that the whole terrorism thing ( yeah some people would find some way to connect it to it). ive always felt once gaming got to the point where you could creae characters why not let people add their own personal touches to game characters( race, sex, ethnicity). to me personally i dont care bout race in games or sex i just want to play something fun.
 
Despite the Prince's new face, I do love the new art direction of a fantastical Persia. It's a bummer that this one seems to lack much challenge. I'm a big PoP fan and I didn't pick this one up, and probably never will.

But any way the main issue here isn't the overall quality, but rather the image being projected.
[quote name='lokizz']after the way the last 2 games sold maybe they felt people would be able to identify more with a white character. and add to that the whole terrorism thing ( yeah some people would find some way to connect it to it). ive always felt once gaming got to the point where you could creae characters why not let people add their own personal touches to game characters( race, sex, ethnicity). to me personally i dont care bout race in games or sex i just want to play something fun.[/quote]

I thought about that, as annoying as it is, but then again there are some gamers that would probably be deterred to pick this up given the whole white washing aspect. At some point I'd think gamers would get bored of seeing the same type of characters over and over.
 
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I don't care. I think its crazy to make an issue out of this. I'm not surprised its coming from the New York Times. If they did make him Persian the NYTs would just call out Ubi for stereotyping/racism.
 
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[quote name='rodeojones903']I don't care. I think its crazy to make an issue out of this. I'm not surprised its coming from the New York Times. If they did make him Persian the NTYs would just call out Ubi for stereotyping/racism.[/quote]

Another good point. I personally am not asking for a stereotypical Persian character, just a Persian looking character plain and simple. With this Prince he doesn't remotely look ethnically Persian.
 
This is kind of an issue for me. I mean, the game is called Prince of fucking Persia, at least make the character look Persian.

In this game, having a stereotypical american white kid is more racist than an average persian one.
 
Exactly(though I wouldn't go as far as to call it racist).

It's the little tweaks to supposedly make games more appealing to everyone, all of it subtracts from the experience for me. I'm sure there will be quite a few people playing this game, feeling just a little bit cheated. I hate to see series lose their identities like this.
 
I don't think he looks American at all...he's a tan, scruffy desert guy. I'm pretty sure persians can have blue eyes too. Same with Elika.

But he does spout constant typical american action movie wisecracks, which completely cancels out any artistic value the game would have. Completely kills the mood of the game.
 
[quote name='ninja dog']I don't think he looks American at all...he's a tan, scruffy desert guy. I'm pretty sure persians can have blue eyes too. Same with Elika.

But he does spout constant typical american action movie wisecracks, which completely cancels out any artistic value the game would have. Completely kills the mood of the game.[/quote]

What do you mean by American? You talking about his attire...it's definitely a Persian and fantasy mix, no one's arguing that.

The blue eyes, which are pretty uncommon for Persians, don't even bother me....after all the last Prince had them and I still thought he was Persian looking. What bothers me is that with this one all I can see are European features, and there are many European people that can attain tans like that.

prince-of-persia-20080820052055753.jpg
 
They mentioned Americans and "anglicized" features and he speaks with an American English accent, so I said "American." I think it's pretty borderline. Yes, he doesn't look distinctly Persian, but I don't think he's a clean shot for a white American guy...he could easily be Spanish or South American, imo. Thick black hair, thick black eyebrows:
ve0osj.jpg


He just looks like a more chiseled version of the WW and TT incarnations of the prince. His skin has been light since SoT (though he was a bit more golden in that game.) He looks like someone who wanders through the desert...though with a perfect physique.

anyway, it's not too hard to see--they did that to boost sales (and yeah, it is bothersome to me.) His voice is really the biggest issue. They made the game fun to look at, but a chore to listen to in order to appease the retarded masses who think characters in every game should be Nathan Drake-esque.

I'd also argue that the game has not always retained a distinct Persian feel at all. The original 2 games and Sands of Time did, but WW, TT, and now this game have diminished Persian aspects.
 
[quote name='willardhaven']My friend is Persian and he looks white.[/quote]

I can see that as possible. I have friends that claim to be black, when in actuality they're mostly white with a bit of black ancestry...and not to mention they look white. Here is it feels like the decision to make him so white looking was for all the wrong reasons.

In our culture we see positive role models of all colors, but it really saddens me when the ideal look for all ethnic groups is the hollywood eurocentric. We should be proud of our differences, and embrace them.

Oh and I consider Spanish people white, if there was any misunderstanding there.
 
[quote name='under_scorer']This is kind of an issue for me. I mean, the game is called Prince of fucking Persia, at least make the character look Persian.[/QUOTE]

It's also called Prince of Persia and he's not even a prince!

I'm actually enjoying this game though and didn't even notice the more western features of the Prince until this thread pointed it out.
 
Who cares? I'm half arab and everyone I meet thinks I am 100% white minus my name which mostly throws them off when they see me.

I could pop in a game called Healthy Black Dude and the main character be a Chinese Leper and not give 2 shits. I care about how good the game is. Next thing you know people will start bitching about the architecture not being historically accurate in fucking Assassin's Creed.
 
Well I could see that 10 years ago, back when games were less of an experience and more well...game. Nowadays games have tried to do more and the cutscenes have become an essential part of the experience, which makes these type of matters all the more irritating.
 
Oh and I consider Spanish people white, if there was any misunderstanding there.
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Spanish people are from Spain...they're latino. There are some hispanic americans who have predominately white blood, but otherwise, I'm not sure why you'd make such a huge exception.
 
[quote name='ninja dog']Spanish people are from Spain...they're latino.[/quote]

Not trying to be rude, but is that a joke? Because yeah...no.
 
[quote name='ninja dog']Spanish people are from Spain...they're latino. There are some hispanic americans who have predominately white blood, but otherwise, I'm not sure why you'd make such a huge exception.[/quote]

Spanish people are from Spain, exactly. Spain is in Europe....Europe=white.

That's how I see it at least. I think latino is mainly for people of latin america that have some spanish ancestry, usually meaning they're not just white.
 
What I've learned from this thread:

1) Discussing the possible whitewashing of ethnic game characters = racist

2) The possibility that the character was intentionally made to look less Arabian = not racist.

Thanks for the lesson, y'all.
 
[quote name='javeryh']LOL that people actually notice this stuff - and care! What's next - Kratos doesn't look Spartan enough???[/quote]
Precisely.

We're intermingling as a species, and who cares.
 
[quote name='SNAKE EYES EX']Mario doesn't look very Italian to me.[/quote]


Short, hairy, works in maintenance; Italian enough for me.
 
At its height, the Persian Empire spanned an absolutely massive chunk of land. Under the Achemenid (spelling? whatev.) kings, dozens of little civilizations were assimilated and became "Persian". When Alexander the Great invaded and ultimately conquered Persia, he settled his armies in Persian lands and brought more genetic diversity (and *gasp* blue eyes) to the region. Modern day Iran does not equal ancient Persia in size or ethnic makeup.
 
I just got done playing through the game, and I think there's one possibility nobody's suggested... he isn't supposed to be Persian at all. Hell, he isn't a prince, so why does he have to be Persian? Just because of the name of the game? My idea for why they named the game "Prince of Persia" (instead of PoP: Elika's Big Tree or something) is to tell the story of how some no-name desert wanderer BECOMES a prince of a fantasy country/region similar in architecture and some aspects of the culture to that of the Persian Empire. (Through the game, it's pretty obvious from the dialogue that the male lead and Elika are falling in love, and Elika is a princess, so if they end up together, he becomes a prince.) I think it's only an issue for people looking at the cover art of the game and assuming the name means that dude is supposed to be Persian royalty.
 
This game is great. I'm kinda sad that it's not selling well, but stuff like Wii Fit is doing blockbuster sales. I fear that that 2009-2011 will not be good years for gaming.
 
Maybe they just wanted him to have blue/green eyes so they would pop, along with the rest of the art style?

IMO this topic is retarded, who cares?
 
[quote name='hhhdx4']Short, hairy, works in maintenance; Italian enough for me.[/quote]

I think that was a joke, Mario is the supreme Italian stereotype. I'm part Italian and I don't mind, it's a good stereotype. Though I don't know many Italian people with blue eyes.

[quote name='lolwut?']Maybe they just wanted him to have blue/green eyes so they would pop, along with the rest of the art style?

IMO this topic is retarded, who cares?[/quote]

Like I said, the blue eyes don't bother me. It's the fact that he's basically white looking in every way in a game called Prince of Persia.

Who cares?! I care, I CARE!
[quote name='ananag112']The first Prince of Persia game I played had the Prince with blond hair.[/quote]

Yeah, I remember that on my DOS version. I always thought it was because of technical limitations though.
[quote name='Halo05']At its height, the Persian Empire spanned an absolutely massive chunk of land. Under the Achemenid (spelling? whatev.) kings, dozens of little civilizations were assimilated and became "Persian". When Alexander the Great invaded and ultimately conquered Persia, he settled his armies in Persian lands and brought more genetic diversity (and *gasp* blue eyes) to the region. Modern day Iran does not equal ancient Persia in size or ethnic makeup.[/quote]

May be true, but whenever I look at Persian paintings of the past I don't get the sense that these people looked like this new Prince.
 
[quote name='leveskikesko']
I'm not racist against white people by any means or even super-PC, but I'm a bit saddened whenever I see these missed opportunities to properly bring in characters of rarely represented ethnicities. In the end all I want is a little variety...[/quote]

I have to agree that variety is always good. I do prefer that game designers either hide the face of the main character (like Halo) or allow the user to customize the character (like Oblivion, Mass Effect). In the grand scheme of things though, these features are just 'nice to haves' and don't help guarantee that a game is good. If the game is fun, I don't care what the character looks like to be honest. Sure, if I could play Halo 3 in campaign mode using a female Master Chief I'd do it...but because I can't, that won't keep me from playing. Plus I always have Zoey in L4D...
 
I think we're on the same page here, jera. It's unfortunate in my eyes, but it won't prevent me from playing an all-around quality game. If I were that anal I probably wouldn't have played most of the games I have.

I simply didn't pick this PoP up because it seems too basic in game design, mainly the platforming, which is the main reason I play PoP.
 
[quote name='thechairmanh2k']im fairly certain natural blue eyes in persia is as likely as it is in zimbabwe. and on topic yes it does bother me.[/quote]

I went to high school with two brothers from Zimbabwe (accents and all). Both brothers had blue eyes.

Cleopatra is likely the most famous Egyptian queen, but she was Greek.

I dont particularly *like* the "whitening" of characters in games, movies, etc., but I wont go as far as to call them 'racist'. I think it's short-sighted though. I dont thinkt hat it's as needed in video games since the demographic skews younger and they tend to be less caught up with race.

Besides, I dont think it was only black people that bought 50 Cent Bulletproof :)
 
[quote name='hostyl1']I went to high school with two brothers from Zimbabwe (accents and all). Both brothers had blue eyes.

Cleopatra is likely the most famous Egyptian queen, but she was Greek.

I dont particularly *like* the "whitening" of characters in games, movies, etc., but I wont go as far as to call them 'racist'. I think it's short-sighted though. I dont thinkt hat it's as needed in video games since the demographic skews younger and they tend to be less caught up with race.

Besides, I dont think it was only black people that bought 50 Cent Bulletproof :)[/quote]
I didn't think anybody bought that.
 
Yes, Cleopatra is one of the few exceptions. Pretty sure she was white. Any way like I've been saying all along, throw some non-white gamers a bone when you have the chance or gamers in general that want some variety.
[quote name='hostyl1']
I dont particularly *like* the "whitening" of characters in games, movies, etc., but I wont go as far as to call them 'racist'. I think it's short-sighted though. I dont thinkt hat it's as needed in video games since the demographic skews younger and they tend to be less caught up with race.[/quote]

I think it does still kind of matter though, not just because the industry should be willing to evolve a bit, but since there are people including impressionable children of many races playing video games.

I know things can't be perfect, but geez...there are barely any good main characters of color out there!
 
[quote name='ninja dog']Spanish people are from Spain...they're latino. There are some hispanic americans who have predominately white blood, but otherwise, I'm not sure why you'd make such a huge exception.[/quote]

Well, Hispanic is not a race. Hispanics in the U.S. are made up of various different backgrounds (there are white Hispanics, black Hispanics, etc.).
 
[quote name='limelight022']They rebooted a franchise that was fine the way it was. Shouldve continued the story from the same price.[/quote]


What price would that be?
 
This was probably a corporate mandate from the word "Go", as Ubisoft was probably delusionally thinking that "white-washing" the Prince would generate a few more sales with the Wal-Mart, xenophobic crowd. I'm sorry, Ubi, it's Prince of PERSIA, not Prince of PEORIA. And it's pseudo-cel-shaded. And it's colorful. And the trailer had some Evanescence-type music playing. This game never had a chance with that crowd.
 
[quote name='leveskikesko']Spanish people are from Spain, exactly. Spain is in Europe....Europe=white.

That's how I see it at least. I think latino is mainly for people of latin america that have some spanish ancestry, usually meaning they're not just white.[/QUOTE]

well, you see it wrong. Race isn't determined by nationality.
 
[quote name='ninja dog']well, you see it wrong. Race isn't determined by nationality.[/quote]

No, you didn't understand me correctly. If I'm understanding you correctly you thought I meant all people of Spanish nationality are white..really? I'm just saying ethnically Spanish people are indeed, white.
 
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