We aren't prepared for another 9/11

D

dennis_t

CAGiversary!
As this article says, Katrina has shown us one important thing: despite all of his bluster and all of his sycophants' talk of his "leadership," Bush has blown one of the most important charges of his presidency. We are not ready to respond to another terrorist attack in our country.

Perhaps we would have been more prepared had not billions of dollars been spent outside the country on a war of Bush's choosing, attacking in the wrong direction against the wrong enemy. Another example of how his War on Iraq has harmed the overall War on Terror.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090301653_pf.html


The killer hurricane and flood that devastated the Gulf Coast last week exposed fatal weaknesses in a federal disaster response system retooled after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, to handle just such a cataclysmic event.

Despite four years and tens of billions of dollars spent preparing for the worst, the federal government was not ready when it came at daybreak on Monday, according to interviews with more than a dozen current and former senior officials and outside experts.

Among the flaws they cited: Failure to take the storm seriously before it hit and trigger the government's highest level of response. Rebuffed offers of aid from the military, states and cities. An unfinished new plan meant to guide disaster response. And a slow bureaucracy that waited until late Tuesday to declare the catastrophe "an incident of national significance," the new federal term meant to set off the broadest possible relief effort.

Born out of the confused and uncertain response to 9/11, the massive new Department of Homeland Security was charged with being ready the next time, whether the disaster was wrought by nature or terrorists. The department commanded huge resources as it prepared for deadly scenarios from an airborne anthrax attack to a biological attack with plague to a chlorine-tank explosion.

But Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said yesterday that his department had failed to find an adequate model for addressing the "ultra-catastrophe" that resulted when Hurricane Katrina's floodwater breached New Orleans's levees and drowned the city, "as if an atomic bomb had been dropped."

If Hurricane Katrina represented a real-life rehearsal of sorts, the response suggested to many that the nation is not ready to handle a terrorist attack of similar dimensions. "This is what the department was supposed to be all about," said Clark Kent Ervin, DHS's former inspector general. "Instead, it obviously raises very serious, troubling questions about whether the government would be prepared if this were a terrorist attack. It's a devastating indictment of this department's performance four years after 9/11."
 
I agree with the title of the article, if not all the contents. The thing about a hurricane is WE KNOW it's coming days in advance, and still the entire thing was handled incredibly ineptly by just about all levels of government, especially DHS. A terrorist attack is not known days in advance and could cause a loss of life much larger than the hurricane, depending on what goes down. Quite frankly, DHS should never have existed in the first place and it's made things worse, not better, on the preparedness front, as evidenced by the late-starting and poorly-organized relief effort.
 
There's big differences between this hurricane and 9/11.

1. The affected area in NYC was rougly 10 square city blocks. Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama and Florida areas combined equal 90,000 square miles. Roughly the size of the United Kingdom.

In Pennsylvania there was a plane crash with no affected urban area and in Virginia there were three damaged rings of the Pentagon and little to no damage to collateral targets.

2. New York City employs over 30,000 police officers and 15,000 fire fighters. New Orleans has/had 1,200 full time police officers. Since the hurricane struck between 200-300 went AWOL, quit, evacuated and two have commited suicide. Police officers in New York weren't shot at by survivors of the Twin Towers or sniped from rooftops so looting could go on unabated.

3. New York City had competent leadership at the city and state level. Despite the heroic nature of the NYPD and NYFD on 9/11 and in the aftermath no one remembers that FEMA didn't show up until 9/16-9/17. The rescue and aftermath was entirely handled by the city and NY National Guard.

New Orleans and Louisiana has been disasterously ineffective. Do I need to post pictures of the flooded busses again? Do I need to remind people that page 13 of the city hurricane evacuation manual said the primary means of public evacuation would be city owned busses?

The people in New Orleans, quite frankly, deserve at least some of the blame for their ordeal. There are always 10% or more of a population that thinks they're invincible, evacuation doesn't apply to them, they can ride out the storm or in the ugliest nature of man will survive the storm to take advantage of an empty city in the aftermath. If 80% of the people in the city left, this was half the people left behind.

The other half was undoubtedly too infirmed, old, sick and the unselfish caretakers and loved ones that stayed to care for them. So what's left? The dumb, the criminal and the completely weak. That's what I would characterize the remainder as by and large.

The city didn't even follow its own guidebook in this case. Yet no one wants to lay ANY blame at the feet of a black Democrat mayor or a female Democrat governor. Of course no one in the American media will say what I've said about the remainder of the New Orleans population either. Oh, and don't bring race into this. I don't see professional and educated people being interviewed unless they stayed behind at their hosipital.

The rest? The dumb, the infirmed and the criminal.
 
3.Well PAD the guard actually WAS there in NY at the time, they weren't off in Iraq either. It would've been MUCH easier if the LA National Guard was there to preserve order.
 
Louisiana NG numbers 11,500. Number deployed in Iraq 3,000. The LA guard is not all overseas.

I also said the NY NG was there after 9/11. Try understanding what you read in the future.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']The rest? The dumb, the infirmed and the criminal.[/QUOTE]

PAD, those are some good points, but I can't help liberalling-up your last statement:

"The rest? The ignorant, the incapacitated and the criminal."

I also think that blaming Bush because the national guard is in Iraq is not great logic. Bush deserves blame for going to a bad war, but that is a different topic. Had Iraq been a just war, the lack of troops problem would still be here.

IMO, Bush took his time to take this storm seriously because he didn't realize the seriousness of the situation. His speeches on the topic are muddled and sometimes border on flippant. However this does not differ at all from his treatment of Iraq ("Mission accomplished", "come get some terrorists", etc).

So Bush did a horrible job (as usual), but putting all the blame at his feet for a natural catastrophe that should have been handled better by state and city government officials is not entirely fair.
 
If you want to liberal up my summary that's fine. The overall meaning is identical and semantics mean very little to me.

Also, here's what most people need to realize about the National Guard. By and large National Guard units are combat units. They are not water purification, quartermasters, MASH units etc. They are infantry, air national guard combat units, armor, airborne etc. When the Pentagon restructured the miliatry after Desert Storm the Army Reserves became home to the support units I mentioned above.

The National Guard became backup combat and round out units for active duty combat forces. By and large the NG is NOT the best force to handle natural disasters, urban strife/resupply etc. The best units for that are U.S. Army and Marine reservists.

The guard has the guns, the reserves have the butter so to speak.
 
PAD,

Perhaps you should consider the federal response to the last time we lost a whole U.S. city, San Francisco circa 1906:


The earthquake struck at 5:13 AM.

By 7 AM federal troops had reported to the mayor.

By 8 AM they were patrolling the entire downtown area and searching for survivors.

The second quake struck at 8:14 AM.

By 10:05 AM the USS Chicago was on its way from San Diego to San Francisco; by 10:30 the USS Preble had landed a medical team and set up an emergency hospital.

By 11 AM large parts of the city were on fire; troops continued to arrive throughout the day, evacuating people from the areas threatened by fire to emergency shelters and Golden Gate Park.

St. Mary's hospital was destroyed by the fire at 1 PM, with no loss of life, the staff and patients having already been evacuated across the bay to Oakland.

By 3 PM troops had shot several looters, and dynamited buildings to make a firebreak; by five they had buried dozens of corpses, the morgue and the police pistol range being unable to hold any more.

At 8:40 PM General Funston requested emergency housing - tents and shelters - from the War Department in Washington; all of the tents in the U.S. Army were on their way to San Francisco by 4:55 AM the next morning.

Prisoners were evacuated to Alcatraz, and by April 20 (two days after the earthquake) the USS Chicago had reached San Francisco, where it evacuated 20,000 refugees.


Of course, we had so much more technology and communications equipment at our disposal back then, so it would have been much easier to respond than now.....

http://www.sfmuseum.org/hist10/06timeline.html
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']If you want to liberal up my summary that's fine. The overall meaning is identical and semantics mean very little to me.

Also, here's what most people need to realize about the National Guard. By and large National Guard units are combat units. They are not water purification, quartermasters, MASH units etc. They are infantry, air national guard combat units, armor, airborne etc. When the Pentagon restructured the miliatry after Desert Storm the Army Reserves became home to the support units I mentioned above.

The National Guard became backup combat and round out units for active duty combat forces. By and large the NG is NOT the best force to handle natural disasters, urban strife/resupply etc. The best units for that are U.S. Army and Marine reservists.

The guard has the guns, the reserves have the butter so to speak.[/QUOTE]

Since you did not see my post in another thread, I would like to correct you. A large number of Guard units were moved over into support roles. I know several armor units changed over to engineers because of this fact. Both reserve and guard have the responsibility of support roles now. The active Army units are concentrated combat units. The military needed more flexibility. Yes the guard has a large number of combat units (I was in Mech Inf.), but they have taken over a larger chunk of the support roles.

The National Guard is a state force. The governor can and will use them to whatever he/ she wants. There are several MP units in SC. How are these not the best force to handle natural disasters and urban strife? Most of these guys still serve in the police force around SC and surrounding states. The biggest thing you need in place is manpower. SC has done well with its experiances with Hugo years ago. You get the people in there (without mucking up the works) and then get them what they need.

My mech inf. unit could handle any job put in front us. You fail to realize that alot of these guys have skilled jobs in the community and skill training across different MOS's (jobs positions within the military). We even had former Marines in our unit. We were rated higher than alot of active duties units. So I can speak from experiance that the National Guard, in whatever role they are given, can help out in any time of need. From the supply clerks to the grunts on the ground.


Edit: Once I think about it, the governor can only call up the guard to help out in matters of state affairs (natural disasters). If you need help moving people from the coast or help in security, these are the only people you can call up before federal assistance is given (the Army Reserve). So if you want something done now, you can not wait on the federal government to come bail you out.

Like I said in another thread, you use what you got. We were always activated and in position to react to a hurricane before it hit. I do not know if La. Guard was activated before the storm hit.
 
[quote name='dennis_t']PAD,

Perhaps you should consider the federal response to the last time we lost a whole U.S. city, San Francisco circa 1906:


The earthquake struck at 5:13 AM.

By 7 AM federal troops had reported to the mayor.

By 8 AM they were patrolling the entire downtown area and searching for survivors.

The second quake struck at 8:14 AM.

By 10:05 AM the USS Chicago was on its way from San Diego to San Francisco; by 10:30 the USS Preble had landed a medical team and set up an emergency hospital.

By 11 AM large parts of the city were on fire; troops continued to arrive throughout the day, evacuating people from the areas threatened by fire to emergency shelters and Golden Gate Park.

St. Mary's hospital was destroyed by the fire at 1 PM, with no loss of life, the staff and patients having already been evacuated across the bay to Oakland.

By 3 PM troops had shot several looters, and dynamited buildings to make a firebreak; by five they had buried dozens of corpses, the morgue and the police pistol range being unable to hold any more.

At 8:40 PM General Funston requested emergency housing - tents and shelters - from the War Department in Washington; all of the tents in the U.S. Army were on their way to San Francisco by 4:55 AM the next morning.

Prisoners were evacuated to Alcatraz, and by April 20 (two days after the earthquake) the USS Chicago had reached San Francisco, where it evacuated 20,000 refugees.


Of course, we had so much more technology and communications equipment at our disposal back then, so it would have been much easier to respond than now.....

http://www.sfmuseum.org/hist10/06timeline.html[/QUOTE]

Excellent post. That was very interesting.
 
Are we REALLY I mean REALLY going to measure the effectiveness of Katrina relief by an example 99 years old when there were 46 states and there was no such thing as FEMA?

C'mon. You can't be serious.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Are we REALLY I mean REALLY going to measure the effectiveness of Katrina relief by an example 99 years old when there were 46 states and there was no such thing as FEMA?

C'mon. You can't be serious.[/QUOTE]

The point was we have so much more technology and resources now that it shouldn't take the government 4 days to start getting to the city.
 
Well PAD if we are going to measure state and local officials to the NY 9/11 standard I guess anything is game. I am sure there was incompetence in NY on 9/11 but as you noted the scale was smaller and the local forces were larger easily masking any problems. For example- your short memory forgets people being told to say in the towers.

The problem with your post (for you anyway) is that it highlights the large-scale nature of Katrina that no state and local government is prepared to deal with. Hence the need for a FEMA that could do it's job. Show your bus picture all you want, it is only one small part of the picture. Hell the feds own National Response Plan which you continue to ignore in favor of bus pictures recognizes this. That is why they specifically mandate the Feds not waiting for state/ local officials.

I don't think anyone is saying Nagin or Blanco is blameless (although you continue to argue this phantom point) but neither is Bush.
 
The governor of Louisiana refused to turn over the Lousiana NG to federal control. Hell, she refused to activate it Monday night after the storm hit.

There are no longer military bases in major cities as there were 100 years ago. They've been closed and moved. Philadelphia and Brooklyn naval yards? Closed. The Presidio in San Francisco? Closed. San Diego, Jacksonville, Charleston and Norfolk are about the remainder of large U.S. cities with significant military assets anymore and they're all naval assets. The largest U.S. Army and Marine bases are, for all intensive purposes, rural.

Fort Leonard Wood, Fort Bliss, Fort Knox, Fort Irwin, Fort Benning and Fort Bragg are all rural. The major army base in Louisiana Fort Polk can't send soldiers out the front door into civillian operations without a direct request from the governor, which never did come in a timely manner. Posse comitatus is a direct violation of federal law, the military cannot take direct action in a state domestically without approval from a state executive and President. Even then the role the active duty military can undertake is severly limited, see Waco for a clear violation of this statute.

To see a bit about the failure of Lousiana's governor read the following.

After days of blaming the federal officials for not responding quickly enough to the Hurricane Katrina crisis, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin praised President Bush on Monday - and charged that Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco had delayed federal rescue efforts by 24 hours.

"I'm so happy that the president came down here," Nagin said of Bush's Friday visit to Louisiana in an interview with CNN. "He came down and saw it, and he put a general on the field. His name is General Honore. And when he hit the field, we started to see action."

But Nagin had harsh words for his state's leaders, telling CNN: "What the state was doing, I don't frigging know. But I tell you, I am pissed. It wasn't adequate."

The New Orleans Democrat said he urged Bush to meet privately with Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco during the visit. The meeting took place aboard Air Force One, he said.

After reviewing the crisis with Gov. Blanco, Bush summoned Nagin for a private chat - where, according to Nagin, Bush explained: "Mr. Mayor, I offered two options to the governor. I said . . . I was ready to move today. The governor said she needed 24 hours to make a decision."

Reacting to the governor's footdragging, Nagin lamented: "It would have been great if we could have left Air Force One, walked outside, and told the world that we had this all worked out."

"It didn't happen, and more people died."
Link
 
I'm not really commenting on the story here, and I'm not arguing a particular point about the disaster. What I would like is a better source, newsmax is not trustworthy to most people (including myself). Do you have a more reputable source that produced a similar article? I think that's a perfectly reasonable request considering the reputation of newsmax.

Though, the only thing I will say is it appeared he complemented the choice of general to lead the efforts, not so much what bush has done.

[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']The governor of Louisiana refused to turn over the Lousiana NG to federal control. Hell, she refused to activate it Monday night after the storm hit.

There are no longer military bases in major cities as there were 100 years ago. They've been closed and moved. Philadelphia and Brooklyn naval yards? Closed. The Presidio in San Francisco? Closed. San Diego, Jacksonville, Charleston and Norfolk are about the remainder of large U.S. cities with significant military assets anymore and they're all naval assets. The largest U.S. Army and Marine bases are, for all intensive purposes, rural.

Fort Leonard Wood, Fort Bliss, Fort Knox, Fort Irwin, Fort Benning and Fort Bragg are all rural. The major army base in Louisiana Fort Polk can't send soldiers out the front door into civillian operations without a direct request from the governor, which never did come in a timely manner. Posse comitatus is a direct violation of federal law, the military cannot take direct action in a state domestically without approval from a state executive and President. Even then the role the active duty military can undertake is severly limited, see Waco for a clear violation of this statute.

To see a bit about the failure of Lousiana's governor read the following.

After days of blaming the federal officials for not responding quickly enough to the Hurricane Katrina crisis, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin praised President Bush on Monday - and charged that Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco had delayed federal rescue efforts by 24 hours.

"I'm so happy that the president came down here," Nagin said of Bush's Friday visit to Louisiana in an interview with CNN. "He came down and saw it, and he put a general on the field. His name is General Honore. And when he hit the field, we started to see action."

But Nagin had harsh words for his state's leaders, telling CNN: "What the state was doing, I don't frigging know. But I tell you, I am pissed. It wasn't adequate."

The New Orleans Democrat said he urged Bush to meet privately with Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco during the visit. The meeting took place aboard Air Force One, he said.

After reviewing the crisis with Gov. Blanco, Bush summoned Nagin for a private chat - where, according to Nagin, Bush explained: "Mr. Mayor, I offered two options to the governor. I said . . . I was ready to move today. The governor said she needed 24 hours to make a decision."

Reacting to the governor's footdragging, Nagin lamented: "It would have been great if we could have left Air Force One, walked outside, and told the world that we had this all worked out."

"It didn't happen, and more people died."
Link [/QUOTE]
 
They quoted CNN as their source for these statements. No search of CNN contains these quotes in a written article nor are their any transcripts of package pieces that appeared on the air. If it were a live or "taped live" segment there won't be transcripts.

I take it at face value. This is pretty much in line about what he's been saying about the state and federal responses.

Uh.... BTW.... who the hell do you think that General works for???

EDIT:WWL: Did you say to the president of the United States, "I need the military in here"?

NAGIN: I said, "I need everything."

Now, I will tell you this -- and I give the president some credit on this -- he sent one John Wayne dude down here that can get some stuff done, and his name is [Lt.] Gen. [Russel] Honore.

And he came off the doggone chopper, and he started cussing and people started moving. And he's getting some stuff done.

They ought to give that guy -- if they don't want to give it to me, give him full authority to get the job done, and we can save some people.

WWL: What do you need right now to get control of this situation?

NAGIN: I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses, man. PAD Comment: You had 2,000 you let get flooded your dolt. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had, they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out here.

I'm like, "You got to be kidding me. This is a national disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."

That's -- they're thinking small, man. And this is a major, major, major deal. And I can't emphasize it enough, man. This is crazy.

I've got 15,000 to 20,000 people over at the convention center. It's bursting at the seams. The poor people in Plaquemines Parish. ... We don't have anything, and we're sharing with our brothers in Plaquemines Parish.

It's awful down here, man.

WWL: Do you believe that the president is seeing this, holding a news conference on it but can't do anything until [Louisiana Gov.] Kathleen Blanco requested him to do it? And do you know whether or not she has made that request?

NAGIN: I have no idea what they're doing.
Link

Like I said, it seems to be very in line with what he's said on other media.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']The governor of Louisiana refused to turn over the Lousiana NG to federal control. [/QUOTE]

Yeah the request came friday at midnight.


and again. The National Response Plan does not require state approval for federal action.
 
The bus issue has been argued many times, and I don't see the point in repeatedly bringing it up because all the responses are in the topic you made about busses. But praising bush for sending a capable person is different than praising bush himself and what he has done. The general seemed to be very well respected by people who knew of him, that's well known. I saw that quote a while ago on the news, and did not get the impression he was praising bush for anything but that one decision.

Though, my issue is not the quotes, but the commentary and the way the quotes are organized. It's very easy to use those two to make the situation appear different than it really is. Again, I'm not really attacking the article, but newsmax and similar sites often put major slants on their reporting. They are good at showing you about a story the main media missed, but they aren't overly trustworthy.



[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']They quoted CNN as their source for these statements. No search of CNN contains these quotes in a written article nor are their any transcripts of package pieces that appeared on the air. If it were a live or "taped live" segment there won't be transcripts.

I take it at face value. This is pretty much in line about what he's been saying about the state and federal responses.

Uh.... BTW.... who the hell do you think that General works for???

EDIT:WWL: Did you say to the president of the United States, "I need the military in here"?

NAGIN: I said, "I need everything."

Now, I will tell you this -- and I give the president some credit on this -- he sent one John Wayne dude down here that can get some stuff done, and his name is [Lt.] Gen. [Russel] Honore.

And he came off the doggone chopper, and he started cussing and people started moving. And he's getting some stuff done.

They ought to give that guy -- if they don't want to give it to me, give him full authority to get the job done, and we can save some people.

WWL: What do you need right now to get control of this situation?

NAGIN: I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses, man. PAD Comment: You had 2,000 you let get flooded your dolt. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had, they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out here.

I'm like, "You got to be kidding me. This is a national disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."

That's -- they're thinking small, man. And this is a major, major, major deal. And I can't emphasize it enough, man. This is crazy.

I've got 15,000 to 20,000 people over at the convention center. It's bursting at the seams. The poor people in Plaquemines Parish. ... We don't have anything, and we're sharing with our brothers in Plaquemines Parish.

It's awful down here, man.

WWL: Do you believe that the president is seeing this, holding a news conference on it but can't do anything until [Louisiana Gov.] Kathleen Blanco requested him to do it? And do you know whether or not she has made that request?

NAGIN: I have no idea what they're doing.
Link

Like I said, it seems to be very in line with what he's said on other media.[/QUOTE]
 
[quote name='usickenme']Yeah the request came friday at midnight.


and again. The National Response Plan does not require state approval for federal action.[/QUOTE]

For active duty and reserve military personnel to participate it most certainly does. Of the nearly 70,000 boots on the ground down there now almost 2/3rds of them are active duty personnel. They can't enter into civillian operations without executive order an request from the state and Presidential levels.

[quote name='alonzomourning23']The bus issue has been argued many times, and I don't see the point in repeatedly bringing it up because all the responses are in the topic you made about busses. But praising bush for sending a capable person is different than praising bush himself and what he has done. The general seemed to be very well respected by people who knew of him, that's well known. I saw that quote a while ago on the news, and did not get the impression he was praising bush for anything but that one decision. [/QUOTE]

You know zo, you can't have this both ways. If Bush sent in a complete moron who was fucking this up instead of helping you would do nothing but heap more scorn on him. You would sit here and say his efforts were hurting more than helping. The capable leadership he sent is attributable to his actions and what he has done.
 
[quote name='usickenme']Yeah the request came friday at midnight.[/QUOTE]

Just to be certain, for clarification purposes for PAD, by "Friday," usickenme means "September 2."

"September 2" also happens to have fallen 5 days after the storm came and went. Those days were known as "August 27th-28th," and they happened *before* "September 2." Just so you know.

There was some prompt action on August 26th by the Bush Administration, as they declared a state of emergency in Louisiana (Link).

The press release cites FEMA as the group spearheading emergency relief efforts:

[quote name='WHPC']Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. Debris removal and emergency protective measures, including direct Federal assistance, will be provided at 75 percent Federal funding.

Representing FEMA, Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary for Emergency Preparedness and Response, Department of Homeland Security, named William Lokey as the Federal Coordinating Officer for Federal recovery operations in the affected area.

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: FEMA (202) 646-4600[/quote]

FEMA, as we know thanks to Paula Zahn and Ted Koppel, did not know about the disastrous situation in New Orleans until the afternoon of "September 1", which was 4 days after the hurricane hit (but not later than "September 2," again).

So, to sum up, PAD, what the hell were you trying to say again?
 
Are reserves the only response the feds could give? No. This is also nothing in the NRP that limit Federal control over federal troops.

Also the gov. requested the mobilization of 40,000 troops on Thursday. Homeland Security was offering 4,200.
 
Homeland Security has no pull in where or when to deploy active duty or reserve forces.

That request has to be made to the Pentagon or the executive branch.,
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Homeland Security has no pull in where or when to deploy active duty or reserve forces.

That request has to be made to the Pentagon or the executive branch.,[/QUOTE]

Which bring us all the way back to my original point. The Feds fucked up The Gov requested 40,000 troops on Thursday and were offered 4,200.

Further more the DOD could have acted much sooner. (from the National Response Plan)
In most instances, the DOD provides Defense Support of Civil Authorities in response to requests for assistance from a lead or primary agency. However, support provided under Immediate Response Authority is authorized by DOD directive and prior approval of the Secretary of Defense. DSCA normally is provided when local, State and Federal resources are overwhelmed, provided it does not interfere with the Dept.'s military readiness or operations.

Immediate Response Authority (here is where PAD gets screwed)

Imminently serious conditions resulting from any civil emergency may require immediate action to save lives, prevent human suffering or mitigate property damage. When such conditions exist and time does not permit approval from higher headquarters, local military commanders and responsible officials from DOD components and agencies are authorized by DOD directive and pre-approval by the Secretary of Defense, subject to any supplemental direction that may be provided by their DOD component, to take necessary action to respond to requests of civil authorities consistent with the Posse Comitatus Act
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']
You know zo, you can't have this both ways. If Bush sent in a complete moron who was fucking this up instead of helping you would do nothing but heap more scorn on him. You would sit here and say his efforts were hurting more than helping. The capable leadership he sent is attributable to his actions and what he has done.[/QUOTE]

I haven't complained that much about the efforts once things got moving. This guy is under the "once things got moving" part, the issue is the response for the first few days. And I also never said he did every single thing wrong.

But of course if he sent a screwup he would have got more blame, that would take away one of the good decisions he made. The fact that he got one right doesn't answer the bad ones people are accusing him of.

But my point is it doesn't appear nagin is praising bush's total response, just a decision he made after the disaster was well underway. My opinion has nothing to do with nagin's.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']The governor of Louisiana refused to turn over the Lousiana NG to federal control. Hell, she refused to activate it Monday night after the storm hit.[/QUOTE]

PAD, I don't know what is worse.....your continued use of blatantly erroneous right-wing sources for your news, or your inability to deal with a reality that might make you question your Republican leaders.

Blanco sent Bush a letter requesting aid on Aug. 28, a day before the hurricane hit the coast.

Part of the letter states:

"Pursuant to 44 CFR § 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal."

If Bush, Brown and Chertoff can misread that paragraph and figure Louisiana is fine on its own, then their heads are irretrievably up their asses and no amount of reality or surgery will remove them.

http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster Relief Request.pdf
 
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