Well played Nintendo... well played...

pumbaa

pumbaa

CAGiversary!
All I have to say is WELL PLAYED Nintendo... well played.

Picto-Chat built in is a great idea. The price points puts Sony is a REALLY tough position. I don;t see them being able to launch at anything over $199 and becoming a major player in the portable market...

The freshest console war starts up November 21st!
 
[quote name='pumbaa']All I have to say is WELL PLAYED Nintendo... well played.

Picto-Chat built in is a great idea. The price points puts Sony is a REALLY tough position. I don;t see them being able to launch at anything over $199 and becoming a major player in the portable market...

The freshest console war starts up November 21st![/quote]


I was hoping picto chat would be included, I wasn't sure they were actually going to do it though. Glad to hear they will be though. 149 and picto-chat make up for no analog stick for me, so depending on what games are comming out at release I may actually have to buy this system at launch.
 
[quote name='jimbodan'][quote name='pumbaa']All I have to say is WELL PLAYED Nintendo... well played.

Picto-Chat built in is a great idea. The price points puts Sony is a REALLY tough position. I don;t see them being able to launch at anything over $199 and becoming a major player in the portable market...

The freshest console war starts up November 21st![/quote]


I was hoping picto chat would be included, I wasn't sure they were actually going to do it though. Glad to hear they will be though. 149 and picto-chat make up for no analog stick for me, so depending on what games are comming out at release I may actually have to buy this system at launch.[/quote]

Seconded. PictoChat will be awesome.
 
[quote name='el bobo']I am not really paying attention to the next-gen stuff I just hope they are under $250[/quote]

same here, i dont hype out next gen stuff until i have them on reserve
 
Disheartening to see that it isn't link capable with GBA games. That keeps me from being able to completely detach myself from the SP. I still have a GB Color because Tetris DX wasn't compatible with GBA link. Boo.

Other than that, their price point is solid. Should be interesting to see how Sony responds.
 
If nintendo markets the DS right, they could gain a HUGE HUGE HHHHUUUGGGEEE lead on Sony, espically with the holiday season coming up. Right now the ball is in Nintendo's court.

I'm just hoping for a solid line-up. If they could have a killer game at release, it definitely justifies me spending $200 on the system and game.

Also, the picto-chat coming with the DS is going to make it even more appeling to casuals. People love communication devices.
 
[quote name='datruth29']If nintendo markets the DS right, they could gain a HUGE HUGE HHHHUUUGGGEEE lead on Sony, espically with the holiday season coming up. Right now the ball is in Nintendo's court.

I'm just hoping for a solid line-up. If they could have a killer game at release, it definitely justifies me spending $200 on the system and game.

Also, the picto-chat coming with the DS is going to make it even more appeling to casuals. People love communication devices.[/quote]

Well from what I read they (Nintendo) are setting aside the largest launch budget of any system in their history for this. Figure that is compounded into less than a months time before release and I figure we will be flooded with commercials..Probably starting on Oct 7th when they release the release games list.
 
[quote name='HYDE']Disheartening to see that it isn't link capable with GBA games. That keeps me from being able to completely detach myself from the SP. I still have a GB Color because Tetris DX wasn't compatible with GBA link. Boo.[/quote]
You can play GB/GB Color games on the GBA using the old link. It's the link that's not compatible, not the actual SP. I still play 2 player Dr. Mario with the old link on my SP. Try it.
 
I would think there would be DS TV ads by now, or maybe there are and I just havent seen them.

Given that the thing has a microphone, and pictochat allows for chat, couldnt there very easily be a voice chat, like a walkie talkie type situation?
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']No analog?

This is generation X, no, wait, thats over.

GENeRATION Y DEMANDS NEW TECHNOLOGY FOR GENERATION G CONSOLES![/quote]

I prefer durability in my portable systems. Sony doesn't make good analogs to begin with (I've gone through three controllers solely due to SOCOM), so I don't hold the inclusion of an analog stick for the PSP in high regard. In order to recess an analog in a clamshell system, it would have to be so short and nubby that I could imagine tactile feedback similar to the NES MAX controller from back in the day.

Gamestops will apparently be getting demo units in their stores next month, I suggest you try it before you write it off.
 
Let me state first that I am a huge Nintendo fan. They make some of the tightest games from a gameplay standpoint. I have only owned Nintendo systems post-NES, but that is purely for financial reasons.

But back to the point of this post. Please, for the sake of all that is holy, NO MORE REMAKES!!! One thing that I feel held the GBA back from being a truly great system was too many ports of old games at current generation prices.

Sure the classic series of games were only $20, but you were only getting one game, some made almost 20 years ago. Although I probably played these games for hours when I was younger, these games couldn't maintain my interest for more than 2 minutes now.

I only bring this up because when I see Super Mario 64x4 running as a demo on the system, it makes me nervous as to what other 64 games Nintendo is thinking of bringing back for a quick buck.

I am looking forward to the release of the DS though and I hope they hold the crown for dominating the portable market. Only time will tell...
 
My thing is, the DS seems to just be re-hashing all the games that were on the N64, so essentially this system is going to be what the 64 should have been, only portable. I probably won't get it, simply because I've never been into portable gaming, but if I had to invest in either the Sony portable or the DS, my money would be behind Nintendo all the way.
 
[quote name='megawat']Let me state first that I am a huge Nintendo fan. They make some of the tightest games from a gameplay standpoint. I have only owned Nintendo systems post-NES, but that is purely for financial reasons.

But back to the point of this post. Please, for the sake of all that is holy, NO MORE REMAKES!!! One thing that I feel held the GBA back from being a truly great system was too many ports of old games at current generation prices.

Sure the classic series of games were only $20, but you were only getting one game, some made almost 20 years ago. Although I probably played these games for hours when I was younger, these games couldn't maintain my interest for more than 2 minutes now.

I only bring this up because when I see Super Mario 64x4 running as a demo on the system, it makes me nervous as to what other 64 games Nintendo is thinking of bringing back for a quick buck.

I am looking forward to the release of the DS though and I hope they hold the crown for dominating the portable market. Only time will tell...[/quote]

You have played the games but sales alone tell you that some people havent. Instead of Johnny the 10 year old going out and getting teh nes he can just get zelda and see what its about. Smart move.

I also realize that a lot of the sales were from people that have played the game before but everyone hasnt.
 
I think that Nintendo is going after a different target market than Sony.

Remember the iPod is more expensive than the SP but those sales have been brisk. I think that Sony will price their handheld the same price as an iPod.
 
The unit will be bundled with Nintendo's Metroid Prime: Hunters at release.

I got that from gamespy's site. $149 for a DS plus Metroid bundled, Nintendo's got gold with this. I'll find the money for it thats such a good deal. Sony's going to have to pull what Microsoft did and sell it so low in price that they actually lose money on each unit, if they want so sell the psp. Because if it's $300 or even $249 they aren't going to sell very well, especially if they don't bundle a game with it.
 
[quote name='Snake2715']
You have played the games but sales alone tell you that some people havent. Instead of Johnny the 10 year old going out and getting teh nes he can just get zelda and see what its about. Smart move.

I also realize that a lot of the sales were from people that have played the game before but everyone hasnt.[/quote]

While I don't disagree with the idea of reselling old software for people who have never had the chance to enjoy it, I do think it would have been better to have released them as a compilation as opposed to individually packaged. I think it would have enticed more people to buy that way.

[quote name='j.elles']
The unit will be bundled with Nintendo's Metroid Prime: Hunters at release.

I got that from gamespy's site. $149 for a DS plus Metroid bundled, Nintendo's got gold with this. I'll find the money for it thats such a good deal. Sony's going to have to pull what Microsoft did and sell it so low in price that they actually lose money on each unit, if they want so sell the psp. Because if it's $300 or even $249 they aren't going to sell very well, especially if they don't bundle a game with it.[/quote]

Just to set the record straight, the Metroid game being bundled with the system is actually a demo and not the fully playable version, which is still cool but it might be a little misleading to some people.
 
[quote name='j.elles']The unit will be bundled with Nintendo's Metroid Prime: Hunters at release.

I got that from gamespy's site. $149 for a DS plus Metroid bundled, Nintendo's got gold with this. I'll find the money for it thats such a good deal. Sony's going to have to pull what Microsoft did and sell it so low in price that they actually lose money on each unit, if they want so sell the psp. Because if it's $300 or even $249 they aren't going to sell very well, especially if they don't bundle a game with it.[/quote]

I think that it will sell well even at $300. See iPod example in earlier post.
 
[quote name='WarrenGekko'][quote name='j.elles']The unit will be bundled with Nintendo's Metroid Prime: Hunters at release.

I got that from gamespy's site. $149 for a DS plus Metroid bundled, Nintendo's got gold with this. I'll find the money for it thats such a good deal. Sony's going to have to pull what Microsoft did and sell it so low in price that they actually lose money on each unit, if they want so sell the psp. Because if it's $300 or even $249 they aren't going to sell very well, especially if they don't bundle a game with it.[/quote]

I think that it will sell well even at $300. See iPod example in earlier post.[/quote]

Wow!
 
[quote name='Snake2715'][quote name='WarrenGekko'][quote name='j.elles']The unit will be bundled with Nintendo's Metroid Prime: Hunters at release.

I got that from gamespy's site. $149 for a DS plus Metroid bundled, Nintendo's got gold with this. I'll find the money for it thats such a good deal. Sony's going to have to pull what Microsoft did and sell it so low in price that they actually lose money on each unit, if they want so sell the psp. Because if it's $300 or even $249 they aren't going to sell very well, especially if they don't bundle a game with it.[/quote]

I think that it will sell well even at $300. See iPod example in earlier post.[/quote]

Wow![/quote]

Score!
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']My thing is, the DS seems to just be re-hashing all the games that were on the N64, so essentially this system is going to be what the 64 should have been, only portable. I probably won't get it, simply because I've never been into portable gaming, but if I had to invest in either the Sony portable or the DS, my money would be behind Nintendo all the way.[/quote]

Yeah, because there were so many surgery games on the N64 where you wielded a scalpal by actually touching a stylus upon the screen depicting the patient's body. There will be no shortage of original products on the DS.

If you look at the titles in development the DS is already doing better than the N64 for RPGs.

Despite what certain critics say, the game industry has matured. Part of this is having a large library of products that are effectively immortal. Many users want them again and the younger users are seeing them for the first time.

When all of the Star Wars movies (or any other film that predates the home video market) are released on Blu-ray or HD-DVD discs, will you complain about them being DVD rehashes?
 
[quote name='WarrenGekko']I think that Nintendo is going after a different target market than Sony.

Remember the iPod is more expensive than the SP but those sales have been brisk. I think that Sony will price their handheld the same price as an iPod.[/quote]

Nintendo said, if I'm not mistaken, that many of their DS games are going to be aimed at an older demographic, which most likely means the same 18-25 year old range that Sony's vying for. Even if you look at current GBA SP ads, Nintendo seems to want to push it as a cool thing to have, which is the same kind of idea that Sony will be pushing when the PSP launches.

Secondly, I think it's hard to compare the sales of iPods to GBA SPs. Yeah, an iPod is more expensive than the SP, but it also has a completely different function. And, yes, it's slightly more expensive than other MP3 jukeboxes out there, but it's in the same general price range.

The PSP is different, though. If you want a portable game machine, there'll be two other options for you. If the PSP is $300, as many think it will be, you can get your portable gaming fix for half of that price by getting a DS, or for a quarter of the price with the SP. If you want a portable movie player, there are portable DVD players that now go for as little as $150-200. And if you want an MP3 player, you could get a much better one for the same price.
 
[quote name='alongx'][quote name='WarrenGekko']I think that Nintendo is going after a different target market than Sony.

Remember the iPod is more expensive than the SP but those sales have been brisk. I think that Sony will price their handheld the same price as an iPod.[/quote]

Nintendo said, if I'm not mistaken, that many of their DS games are going to be aimed at an older demographic, which most likely means the same 18-25 year old range that Sony's vying for. Even if you look at current GBA SP ads, Nintendo seems to want to push it as a cool thing to have, which is the same kind of idea that Sony will be pushing when the PSP launches.

Secondly, I think it's hard to compare the sales of iPods to GBA SPs. Yeah, an iPod is more expensive than the SP, but it also has a completely different function. And, yes, it's slightly more expensive than other MP3 jukeboxes out there, but it's in the same general price range.

The PSP is different, though. If you want a portable game machine, there'll be two other options for you. If the PSP is $300, as many think it will be, you can get your portable gaming fix for half of that price by getting a DS, or for a quarter of the price with the SP. If you want a portable movie player, there are portable DVD players that now go for as little as $150-200. And if you want an MP3 player, you could get a much better one for the same price.[/quote]

Oh, I agree with you. It's hard to tell what will really happen when both systems are released. I not saying the Sony's will sell better than Nintendo. I just beleive that Sony's handheld can do well even at $300. It all depends on how well the handheld performs. If people see that at $300 you are getting better technology than Nintendo's handheld (which it is) then they will buy it. No doubt. That is the target market that Sony is going after. Its not an age thing. It is the market that will pay for an iPod.
 
[quote name='alongx'][quote name='WarrenGekko']I think that Nintendo is going after a different target market than Sony.

Remember the iPod is more expensive than the SP but those sales have been brisk. I think that Sony will price their handheld the same price as an iPod.[/quote]

Nintendo said, if I'm not mistaken, that many of their DS games are going to be aimed at an older demographic, which most likely means the same 18-25 year old range that Sony's vying for. Even if you look at current GBA SP ads, Nintendo seems to want to push it as a cool thing to have, which is the same kind of idea that Sony will be pushing when the PSP launches.

Secondly, I think it's hard to compare the sales of iPods to GBA SPs. Yeah, an iPod is more expensive than the SP, but it also has a completely different function. And, yes, it's slightly more expensive than other MP3 jukeboxes out there, but it's in the same general price range.

The PSP is different, though. If you want a portable game machine, there'll be two other options for you. If the PSP is $300, as many think it will be, you can get your portable gaming fix for half of that price by getting a DS, or for a quarter of the price with the SP. If you want a portable movie player, there are portable DVD players that now go for as little as $150-200. And if you want an MP3 player, you could get a much better one for the same price.[/quote]

A huge difference is that the iPOD doesn't demand your complete attention to fulfill its purpose. Some iPOD users I know have it running all day. It has a dock in their car, then moves to the dock at the office computer, rides back in the car and docks at the home computer. You cannot hold a job while getting that much use from a game system. Thus the iPOD qualifies its price point. People can go for days hearing only songs they like without a repeat and witout having to pay much attention to the device after they start it up. That's very difficult to match on any less expensive audio player other than competing mini-hard drive units.

The portables are competing with not only with full size TV-connected consoles but life itself for those players who use only when they're commuting or otherwise cooling their heels. I think that makes it more difficult to qualify buying portable game systems at the same prices people happily pay for consoles.
 
[quote name='epobirs'][quote name='alongx'][quote name='WarrenGekko']I think that Nintendo is going after a different target market than Sony.

Remember the iPod is more expensive than the SP but those sales have been brisk. I think that Sony will price their handheld the same price as an iPod.[/quote]

Nintendo said, if I'm not mistaken, that many of their DS games are going to be aimed at an older demographic, which most likely means the same 18-25 year old range that Sony's vying for. Even if you look at current GBA SP ads, Nintendo seems to want to push it as a cool thing to have, which is the same kind of idea that Sony will be pushing when the PSP launches.

Secondly, I think it's hard to compare the sales of iPods to GBA SPs. Yeah, an iPod is more expensive than the SP, but it also has a completely different function. And, yes, it's slightly more expensive than other MP3 jukeboxes out there, but it's in the same general price range.

The PSP is different, though. If you want a portable game machine, there'll be two other options for you. If the PSP is $300, as many think it will be, you can get your portable gaming fix for half of that price by getting a DS, or for a quarter of the price with the SP. If you want a portable movie player, there are portable DVD players that now go for as little as $150-200. And if you want an MP3 player, you could get a much better one for the same price.[/quote]

A huge difference is that the iPOD doesn't demand your complete attention to fulfill its purpose. Some iPOD users I jnow have it running all day. It has a dock in their car, then moves to the dock at the office computer, rides back in the car and docks at the home computer. You cannot hold a job while getting that much use from a game system. Thus the iPOD qualifies its price point. People can go for days hearing only songs they like without a repeat and witout having to pay much attention to the device after they start it up. That's very difficult to match on any less expensive audio player other than competing mini-hard drive units.

The portables are competing with not only with full size TV-connected consoles but life itself for those players who use only when they're commuting or otherwise cooling their heels. I think that makes it more difficult to qualify buying portable game systems at the same prices people happily pay for consoles.[/quote]

Unless people don't see a difference between the handhelds and a console. Similar to laptops and desktops (actually laptops are more expensive)
 
[quote name='WarrenGekko']If people see that at $300 you are getting better technology than Nintendo's handheld (which it is) then they will buy it. No doubt. That is the target market that Sony is going after. Its not an age thing. It is the market that will pay for an iPod.[/quote]

The market is an age thing. And also, to some extent, a gender thing. Males, 18-25 - that's the market known to throw around the most money on stuff that they don't really need. And that's the market that Sony's explicitly stated that they are going after.
 
[quote name='alongx'][quote name='WarrenGekko']If people see that at $300 you are getting better technology than Nintendo's handheld (which it is) then they will buy it. No doubt. That is the target market that Sony is going after. Its not an age thing. It is the market that will pay for an iPod.[/quote]

The market is an age thing. And also, to some extent, a gender thing. Males, 18-25 - that's the market known to throw around the most money on stuff that they don't really need. And that's the market that Sony's explicitly stated that they are going after.[/quote]

I don't know many Males 18-25 that have money to throw around on stuff that they don't need.
 
[quote name='epobirs']A huge difference is that the iPOD doesn't demand your complete attention to fulfill its purpose. Some iPOD users I jnow have it running all day. It has a dock in their car, then moves to the dock at the office computer, rides back in the car and docks at the home computer. You cannot hold a job while getting that much use from a game system. Thus the iPOD qualifies its price point. People can go for days hearing only songs they like without a repeat and witout having to pay much attention to the device after they start it up. That's very difficult to match on any less expensive audio player other than competing mini-hard drive units.

The portables are competing with not only with full size TV-connected consoles but life itself for those players who use only when they're commuting or otherwise cooling their heels. I think that makes it more difficult to qualify buying portable game systems at the same prices people happily pay for consoles.[/quote]

Couldn't agree more.
 
[quote name='WarrenGekko'][quote name='alongx'][quote name='WarrenGekko']If people see that at $300 you are getting better technology than Nintendo's handheld (which it is) then they will buy it. No doubt. That is the target market that Sony is going after. Its not an age thing. It is the market that will pay for an iPod.[/quote]

The market is an age thing. And also, to some extent, a gender thing. Males, 18-25 - that's the market known to throw around the most money on stuff that they don't really need. And that's the market that Sony's explicitly stated that they are going after.[/quote]

I don't know many Males 18-25 that have money to throw around on stuff that they don't need.[/quote]

what he said!

i waste money on games i dont need...but it was like $3.00 per game.
i dont buy random high priced electronics i dont need. i do have an mp3 player ive had it for a year and a half, but i use it alot, 20-30 hours a week sometimes.
 
[quote name='WarrenGekko']I don't know many Males 18-25 that have money to throw around on stuff that they don't need.[/quote]

Well, think of any person in that demographic that you know who purchased a PS2, Xbox, or any other video game console. That is something that nobody needs, per say, but that is purchased. When people get older, they need to spend money on a lot of other things - namely their families.
 
But people do see a difference. Laptops do a pretty good job of reproducing desktop utility for a reasonable price. You can spend a lot on a laptop but decnt functional units start at only $600 nowadays. It isn't that great a premium over a desktop, especially after you factor for the more expensive drive types and power system.

Anybody who knew the first party SNES hits well can enjoy them on the GBA but the differences due to lower resolution are obvious, and in many cases require chamges to how a particular part of a game is played. This obvious difference forces shoppers who aren't hardcore gamers to qualify the purchase against other choices. Once you go over a certain price point you automatically lose a chunk of the market. Try to imagine the PS2 launching at $500 against a $300 GameCube. The GC is still within the realm of acceptable although high pricing for a console. The PS2 is up against sticker shock, especially for a toy. (Important iPod factor: Most owner don't think of it as a toy as they do a game system.)
 
[quote name='alongx'][quote name='WarrenGekko']I don't know many Males 18-25 that have money to throw around on stuff that they don't need.[/quote]

Well, think of any person in that demographic that you know who purchased a PS2, Xbox, or any other video game console. That is something that nobody needs, per say, but that is purchased. When people get older, they need to spend money on a lot of other things - namely their families.[/quote]

In general, when people get older they have more discretionary income to buy higher priced items. I would think that the demographic that Sony is targeting is much greater than that. I would say it is between 18-40 (if not older) since gaming has become mainstream now.
 
[quote name='epobirs']But people do see a difference. Laptops do a pretty good job of reproducing desktop utility for a reasonable price. You can spend a lot on a laptop but decnt functional units start at only $600 nowadays. It isn't that great a premium over a desktop, especially after you factor for the more expensive drive types and power system.

Anybody who knew the first party SNES hits well can enjoy them on the GBA but the differences due to lower resolution are obvious, and in many cases require chamges to how a particular part of a game is played. This obvious difference forces shoppers who aren't hardcore gamers to qualify the purchase against other choices. Once you go over a certain price point you automatically lose a chunk of the market. Try to imagine the PS2 launching at $500 against a $300 GameCube. The GC is still within the realm of acceptable although high pricing for a console. The PS2 is up against sticker shock, especially for a toy. (Important iPod factor: Most owner don't think of it as a toy as they do a game system.)[/quote]

But, if the games on the PSP are the same quality as the PS2 as Sony is trying to pull off than people won't notice the difference. Imagine a handheld PS2 launching at $300 against a $150 handheld N64
 
Here is my take on the competiion:
Battery Power: Nintendo. Hands down. Sony has been too afraid to say anything about battery power, and I seriously doubt they have an ace up their sleeve on this.
Media: Tie. Sony has a bigger media, but more battery intensive.
Screen: Nintendo. By a hair. Sony's screen is nicer, but Nintendo has two and they protect themselves.
Included Gadget: Nintendo. Pictochat rocks the world of that translating thingy that won't work.
Games: Unknown. Both look to be porting lots of their 32/64bit consoles. Original games on both sides are something of an unknown, but I would side with Nintendo, since they are usually more innovative.
3rd Party Support: Sony. I've seen a lot of companies pledge support to Nintendo only to see them back out.
Price: Nintendo. I know that Sony hasn't said anything, but given the features they want to include their is such a little chance that it is the same price as Nintendo's that I don't even consider it an option.
Momentum: Sony. As much as I like Nintendo taking the initiative with this announcement, Sony seems to be unbeatable in the publics' eyes.

Overall: My money is with Nintendo. I think it is going to be a good battle, but Nintendo just has too much on their side right now.
 
[quote name='WarrenGekko'][quote name='epobirs']But people do see a difference. Laptops do a pretty good job of reproducing desktop utility for a reasonable price. You can spend a lot on a laptop but decnt functional units start at only $600 nowadays. It isn't that great a premium over a desktop, especially after you factor for the more expensive drive types and power system.

Anybody who knew the first party SNES hits well can enjoy them on the GBA but the differences due to lower resolution are obvious, and in many cases require chamges to how a particular part of a game is played. This obvious difference forces shoppers who aren't hardcore gamers to qualify the purchase against other choices. Once you go over a certain price point you automatically lose a chunk of the market. Try to imagine the PS2 launching at $500 against a $300 GameCube. The GC is still within the realm of acceptable although high pricing for a console. The PS2 is up against sticker shock, especially for a toy. (Important iPod factor: Most owner don't think of it as a toy as they do a game system.)[/quote]

But, if the games on the PSP are the same quality as the PS2 as Sony is trying to pull off than people won't notice the difference. Imagine a handheld PS2 launching at $300 against a $150 handheld N64[/quote]

They keep saying it will be PS2 quality, but all of their ports are of PS1 games. Makes you think doesn't it?
 
[quote name='WarrenGekko'][quote name='alongx'][quote name='WarrenGekko']I don't know many Males 18-25 that have money to throw around on stuff that they don't need.[/quote]

Well, think of any person in that demographic that you know who purchased a PS2, Xbox, or any other video game console. That is something that nobody needs, per say, but that is purchased. When people get older, they need to spend money on a lot of other things - namely their families.[/quote]

In general, when people get older they have more discretionary income to buy higher priced items. I would think that the demographic that Sony is targeting is much greater than that. I would say it is between 18-40 (if not older) since gaming has become mainstream now.[/quote]

The problem beyond 25-ish is that discretionary income by that point is often being drained off handily by the rug rats. The rug rats want the one that plays Pokemon. The 'confirmed bachelor' market that remains can be difficult to measure and target. It isn't necessarily worth the trouble since that group often has the same tastes as the 10-year-olds.
 
I don't know if better technology means it will do better. That was the thought behind the PSX in japan and that bombed horribly.
On a more concrete note though, the dreamcast, specs wise it was a much, much, better system then the PS2, plus it was easier to develop for and had a built in modem, and Sega failed with it.
But Nintendo is at a clear advantage here, because unlike with the N64 they now have the 3'd party support, and from the games to be released list i've seen there are ton's of games people are gonna wanta get that are not first party. Plus if you think logically the n64 failed because of nintendo's refusal to embrace cd's. Witch cost them Square and the system seller that was final fantasy 7 which was so hugly succesfull that it caused sony to win the largest market share.
Fact: Ninendo has beaten all portable rivals. And from magazines I've read there have been a lot.
Fact: Nintendo has tons of 3'd party support for this.
Fact:A turn based Metal Gear Solid game sounds crappy, and after the poor sales of mgs 2 aren't going to help sony out that much. And that's the only game I've seen that looks promising.
 
[quote name='epobirs'][quote name='WarrenGekko'][quote name='alongx'][quote name='WarrenGekko']I don't know many Males 18-25 that have money to throw around on stuff that they don't need.[/quote]

Well, think of any person in that demographic that you know who purchased a PS2, Xbox, or any other video game console. That is something that nobody needs, per say, but that is purchased. When people get older, they need to spend money on a lot of other things - namely their families.[/quote]

In general, when people get older they have more discretionary income to buy higher priced items. I would think that the demographic that Sony is targeting is much greater than that. I would say it is between 18-40 (if not older) since gaming has become mainstream now.[/quote]

The problem beyond 25-ish is that discretionary income by that point is often being drained off handily by the rug rats. The rug rats want the one that plays Pokemon. The 'confirmed bachelor' market that remains can be difficult to measure and target. It isn't necessarily worth the trouble since that group often has the same tastes as the 10-year-olds.[/quote]

EGM has said the average age thier reader is 28. I think that people who grew up on NES are not going to stop gaming after 25 (like myself)
 
[quote name='j.elles']I don't know if better technology means it will do better. That was the thought behind the PSX in japan and that bombed horribly.
On a more concrete note though, the dreamcast, specs wise it was a much, much, better system then the PS2, plus it was easier to develop for and had a built in modem, and Sega failed with it.


That's true. Better technology does NOT mean that it will be better. It's all about how well the better technology is implemented and people see value in it. We shall see if Sony will produce a hand held thats worth talking about.

Fact: Ninendo has beaten all portable rivals. And from magazines I've read there have been a lot.
Fact: Nintendo has tons of 3'd party support for this.
Fact:A turn based Metal Gear Solid game sounds crappy, and after the poor sales of mgs 2 aren't going to help sony out that much. And that's the only game I've seen that looks promising.[/quote]

You can't always use history to predict the future. Fact was between Nintendo 64, Nintendo has beaten all rivals. Even Sega. But, that didn't stop Sony from releasing a console and they clearly have the better console now.
 
[quote name='j.elles']
On a more concrete note though, the dreamcast, specs wise it was a much, much, better system then the PS2, plus it was easier to develop for and had a built in modem, and Sega failed with it. [/quote]

Now, I love the Dreamcast, but I dont think I believe this statement. After a very quick search, I turned up these specs:

Dreamcast:
200MHz Hitachi SH4 processor (360 MIPS)
16MB 64-bit SDRAM
800MB/sec system bus
PowerVR2DC (customized PowerVR2 based chip, for Dreamcast)
8MB 100MHz 128-bit SDRAM
1.6GB/sec video memory bandwidth
45MHz ARM7 + Yamaha DSP audio processor
2MB audio memory
50MB/sec bus to modem/BBA slot
1.2GB GD-ROM
1.2MB/sec transfer rate

PS2:
CPU: 128 Bit "Emotion Engine"
System Clock: 300 MHz
System Memory: 32 MB Direct Rambus
Memory Bus Bandwidth: 3.2 GB per second
Co-Processor: FPU (Floating Point Multiply Accumulator x 1, Floating Point Divider x 1)
Vector Units: VU0 and VU1 (Floating Point Multiply Accumulator x 9, Floating Point Divider x 1)
Floating Point Performance: 6.2 GFLOPS
Compressed Image Decoder: MPEG2


Now, yes, the Dreamcast shipped with the modem, but I'm pretty sure Sony the PS2 had it beat hardware wise.

More on topic, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna preorder this soon. I'm much more attracted to this vs. the PSP...
 
THINK LOGICALLY
Theres a rime and reason to most things.

Plus if you think logically the n64 failed because of nintendo's refusal to embrace cd's. Witch cost them Square and the system seller that was final fantasy 7 which was so hugly succesfull that it caused sony to win the largest market share.

That was from my previous post. And to add to it. They had the lead going into the next generation with the PS2, plus they kept and added to the 3'd party supporters they had, and microsoft coming in didn't do Nintendo any favors either.
What i'm trying to say isn't the Nintendo will win just that they are at a clear and obvious advantage. What does son't have that gives them an advantage.
I KNOW i will buy a ds. For the Zelda game, for the Mario cart, Animal Crossing, possibly URBZ sims in the city, the new mario game I saw screens of at E3,(not the 64 clone the other one) and a ton of others, like multiple RPGS's they have in development that I saw on the most recent Development list.
 
[quote name='j.elles']I don't know if better technology means it will do better. That was the thought behind the PSX in japan and that bombed horribly.
On a more concrete note though, the dreamcast, specs wise it was a much, much, better system then the PS2, plus it was easier to develop for and had a built in modem, and Sega failed with it.
But Nintendo is at a clear advantage here, because unlike with the N64 they now have the 3'd party support, and from the games to be released list i've seen there are ton's of games people are gonna wanta get that are not first party. Plus if you think logically the n64 failed because of nintendo's refusal to embrace cd's. Witch cost them Square and the system seller that was final fantasy 7 which was so hugly succesfull that it caused sony to win the largest market share.
Fact: Ninendo has beaten all portable rivals. And from magazines I've read there have been a lot.
Fact: Nintendo has tons of 3'd party support for this.
Fact:A turn based Metal Gear Solid game sounds crappy, and after the poor sales of mgs 2 aren't going to help sony out that much. And that's the only game I've seen that looks promising.[/quote]

If it was merely a matter of bringing better technology to bear the Sega Master System would have stomped the NES from existence. And that was at comparable cost of entry. If technology trumped cost the Neo-Geo would have been the winner of the 16-bit generation. (No, it wasn't 24-bit)

Cost of entry matters, as does the games that run on the system. It appears the PSP will be able to put on a good show of quality software (from what little has been revealed to date) but the same could be said for the Neo-Geo. The test of what the traffic will bear in the portable market remains to be performed. Every month the PSP is delayed gives advantage to Nintendo but also offers the potential of a lower price point for the PSP. The problem is that the gain from a lower price would come at the cost of credibility lost to the delays.
 
[quote name='thestuff'][quote name='j.elles']
On a more concrete note though, the dreamcast, specs wise it was a much, much, better system then the PS2, plus it was easier to develop for and had a built in modem, and Sega failed with it. [/quote]

Now, I love the Dreamcast, but I dont think I believe this statement. After a very quick search, I turned up these specs:

Dreamcast:
200MHz Hitachi SH4 processor (360 MIPS)
16MB 64-bit SDRAM
800MB/sec system bus
PowerVR2DC (customized PowerVR2 based chip, for Dreamcast)
8MB 100MHz 128-bit SDRAM
1.6GB/sec video memory bandwidth
45MHz ARM7 + Yamaha DSP audio processor
2MB audio memory
50MB/sec bus to modem/BBA slot
1.2GB GD-ROM
1.2MB/sec transfer rate

PS2:
CPU: 128 Bit "Emotion Engine"
System Clock: 300 MHz
System Memory: 32 MB Direct Rambus
Memory Bus Bandwidth: 3.2 GB per second
Co-Processor: FPU (Floating Point Multiply Accumulator x 1, Floating Point Divider x 1)
Vector Units: VU0 and VU1 (Floating Point Multiply Accumulator x 9, Floating Point Divider x 1)
Floating Point Performance: 6.2 GFLOPS
Compressed Image Decoder: MPEG2


Now, yes, the Dreamcast shipped with the modem, but I'm pretty sure Sony the PS2 had it beat hardware wise.

More on topic, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna preorder this soon. I'm much more attracted to this vs. the PSP...[/quote]

Wow. That's pretty good whipping out the specs for both systems on the fly like that. But, I would like to now how the PSP specs match up to the PS2 as well.
 
[quote name='WarrenGekko'][quote name='epobirs'][quote name='WarrenGekko'][quote name='alongx'][quote name='WarrenGekko']I don't know many Males 18-25 that have money to throw around on stuff that they don't need.[/quote]

Well, think of any person in that demographic that you know who purchased a PS2, Xbox, or any other video game console. That is something that nobody needs, per say, but that is purchased. When people get older, they need to spend money on a lot of other things - namely their families.[/quote]

In general, when people get older they have more discretionary income to buy higher priced items. I would think that the demographic that Sony is targeting is much greater than that. I would say it is between 18-40 (if not older) since gaming has become mainstream now.[/quote]

The problem beyond 25-ish is that discretionary income by that point is often being drained off handily by the rug rats. The rug rats want the one that plays Pokemon. The 'confirmed bachelor' market that remains can be difficult to measure and target. It isn't necessarily worth the trouble since that group often has the same tastes as the 10-year-olds.[/quote]

EGM has said the average age thier reader is 28. I think that people who grew up on NES are not going to stop gaming after 25 (like myself)[/quote]

Magazine subscriptions, especially ones that ccan be had for free if you examine the appropriate thread, are not a measure of console purchases. I used to subscribe to Cycle World but I couldn't afford to buy most of the machines they examined in loving detail.
 
Okay I guessed on that from personall experience on both systems. I enjoyed the dreamcast games I owned more then most of the PS2 ones and thought they were better.
But I know for a fact from a gaming magazine that the PSP will "have graphics like the early PS2 games, but the programming and software architecture will be more akin to the PS1 then the PS2", I think it was EGM but i'm not entirely sure, it was a friends magazine.
 
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