What if 2D Gaming was still King?

leveskikesko

leveskikesko

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I know many of us here are classic gamers, like myself.

I always wondered what it would be like if the industry never fully embraced 3D, and kept its 2D roots. Some game types work best or only work in 2D, I see the positives in them. I definitely miss series like Super Mario Bros. Sure, Galaxy is a fantastic game, but it will never be exactly the same thing as its 2D brothers.

Would you guys want 2D over 3D in these days, or are you glad that it's the way it is currently?
 
I like having both 2D and 3D, but it's nice that 2D's getting a bigger presence again... the 2D stuff comin' outta Japan nowadays is damn good.
 
As much as I was a fan of 2D gaming and was resistant to the change to 3D games due to pretty lackluster 3D games (for the most part) in the N64 and PSX era, I've fully embrassed it now.

I still enjoy playing games like the 2D marios, Super Metroid, the GBA/DS Castlevanias etc., but I'd have to say I get more out of 3D games in general now that 3D games have been more fine tuned over the past couple of generations.

So I'm glad it's the way it is currently. Gaming has too keep moving forward. If it keeps just spitting out more of the same all the time it would get stale. I don't need a lot of giant changes all the time, just improvements from generation to generation to keeep it fresh. Going to 3D was a big change for sure, but it was for the best in the long run.
 
not embracing 3d would be like if television never went color.


dont get me wrong, i love 2d games, but the industry wouldnt be what it is today if it didnt go 3d.
 
Wait, 2D still isn't king?

I must be playing the wrong games =/

The last 7 or so games I've bought have all been in 2D!

I like how it is currently, there is something for everyone.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']As much as I was a fan of 2D gaming and was resistant to the change to 3D games due to pretty lackluster 3D games (for the most part) in the N64 and PSX era, I've fully embrassed it now.

I still enjoy playing games like the 2D marios, Super Metroid, the GBA/DS Castlevanias etc., but I'd have to say I get more out of 3D games in general now that 3D games have been more fine tuned over the past couple of generations.

So I'm glad it's the way it is currently. Gaming has too keep moving forward. If it keeps just spitting out more of the same all the time it would get stale. I don't need a lot of giant changes all the time, just improvements from generation to generation to keeep it fresh. Going to 3D was a big change for sure, but it was for the best in the long run.[/quote]

I'm all about embracing 3D and innovation, but not at the expense of forgetting about a whole genre of games that still have not yet been fully explored.

Games like Super Smash Bros. Brawl show us that 2D gaming should still be relevant, we just need to repackage them in a way that seems, well modern.

Sure, we have our cute lil downloable 2D games now, but none of them really compare to what we had in the 32 bit era. That's not nostalgia speaking either. There's just something so simple and pure about 2D games that can not be recreated in 3D.
 
[quote name='leveskikesko']I'm all about embracing 3D and innovation, but not at the expense of forgetting about a whole genre of games that still have not yet been fully explored.

Games like Super Smash Bros. Brawl show us that 2D gaming should still be relevant, we just need to repackage them in a way that seems, well modern.

Sure, we have our cute lil downloable 2D games now, but none of them really compare to what we had in the 32 bit era. That's not nostalgia speaking either. There's just something so simple and pure about 2D games that can not be recreated in 3D.[/QUOTE]

Certainly. Notice I listed the GBA/DS Castlevania games as one I enojoyed. I didn't mean to imply that 2D has no place today, and that I don't still enjoy 2D games.

I definitely enjoy 3D more as I like having a world to explore, and that's a much more vibrant experience in 3D. Be it an RPG with a huge world like Oblivion, or FPS games like Bioshock.

But there's always a place for 2D. I don't think Brawl is the best example of a 2D game pushing boundries or even feeling "modern". Just more of the same shit from Melee from the little I played at a friends the other day. And Melee didn't feel that much different than the N64 game IMO. Just not my cup of tea I guess.
 
Why would you list Smash Bros in the first place as a 2D game pushing boundaries?

KoF XII far exceeds it in terms of boundary pushing 2D excellence.
 
[quote name='Roufuss']Why would you list Smash Bros in the first place as a 2D game pushing boundaries?

KoF XII far exceeds it in terms of boundary pushing 2D excellence.[/quote]

Please, not this again. =/
 
[quote name='Roufuss']Wait, 2D still isn't king?

I must be playing the wrong games =/

The last 7 or so games I've bought have all been in 2D!

I like how it is currently, there is something for everyone.[/QUOTE]

What in the fuck is this? You're back now? Rat bastard up-and-disappearin' like that.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']What in the fuck is this? You're back now? Rat bastard up-and-disappearin' like that.[/QUOTE]

Haha, sorry.

I did finally get KoF XI today though, if that makes up for it.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']Mothafucka, you shoulda gotten that back in 2006!


Better late than never, though... I guess...[/QUOTE]

Procrastination!

I got Art of Fighting Anthology with it too... I like the cover! Which is probably the only redeeming value of it. But really, can AoF 3 be THAT bad? Can it?
 
[quote name='Roufuss']Procrastination!

I got Art of Fighting Anthology with it too... I like the cover! Which is probably the only redeeming value of it. But really, can AoF 3 be THAT bad? Can it?[/QUOTE]

YES. Yes it can be (and is!) that bad. AOF3's only redeeming quality, as it turns out, is the line "OH GO HOME POOPIE-PANTS." Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if SNK took that one line out of this collection so that they can enjoy the fact that it's a completely worthless piece of shit.

But KOF XI is still legit. Love that shit.

Not as much as GG or Melty Blood tho...
 
2d and 3d games have something for everyone, but what Johnny Lee has done with a few dollars and his wii system is going to really transform 3d. I can't wait to see what the industry comes up with from this... http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/245 - if you don't watch the whole thing, then at least watch the last half.
 
[quote name='jamiesc']2d and 3d games have something for everyone, but what Johnny Lee has done with a few dollars and his wii system is going to really transform 3d. I can't wait to see what the industry comes up with from this... http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/245 - if you don't watch the whole thing, then at least watch the last half.[/quote]

It's a neat lil trick, but let's get real here, it's nothing that'll change gaming.
 
Id play more games now if there were an equal amount of 2d games out there. I wouldnt give up 3d but I would much rather play a game with 2d sprite graphics then some 3d game.
 
Does this mean everyone's stupid family members who crane their neck to see "around" things in videogames will look less stupid? If so, I dig it!
 
um 2d never left. I mean if i want a 2D mario i can get new super paper mario, yoshi island ds, or even super princess peach.
 
personally.. i think there are a lack of good platforming games because everyone tries to do 3D.. there is so much great design space in 2d for platformers.. i would love to see a more immersive 2D platforming experience the ones we have been getting..

that being said.. I loved the Klonoa games for the PS2
 
One thing I absolutely hate is when I see concept art for an upcoming game, then as it makes it's transition over to 3D world, it loses significant detail, and turns out looking like absolute bland shit. I think to myself, "damn, if only they used that concept art to make a 2D game....." Don't get me wrong, 3D is great for shooters (Halo, Gears, Call of Duty) but I was never a fan of bringing games that were originally 2D to the 3D world (Megaman, Castlevania, Contra.) For me, the only exception being Ninja Gaiden.
 
Personally, I really enjoy most 2d games. That being said though I love plenty of 3D games but really aren't they all just 2D since the picture always stays flat?

Just kidding. My main problem with the idea that games wouldn't have gone 3D is that the extra dimension added quite a bit, I'm looking through my game collection and I can't imagine a world without Portal. That's probably the best use of 3D that I've ever seen in my life.

As for a good way to look at 2D versus 3D I give the Worms series as an example of why some things work great in 2D but tend to fall apart in 3D because there is an entire new plane that the developers just don't fully wrap their minds around before pushing something out.

Although I'd probably give a testicle to science if it meant that we could get a new (good) 2D mario (a true sequel to Super Mario World (none of the baby shit they pass off as a sequel).
If this post is kind of rambly it's because I just woke up so, sorry.
 
[quote name='urzishra14']personally.. i think there are a lack of good platforming games because everyone tries to do 3D..[/QUOTE]

That is one genre I agree on. 3D platformers just can't touch 2D platformers for me. The 3D Mario games were good, but no where near the sheer gaming bliss of SMB3 and SMW.
 
[quote name='Lieutenant Dan']Sonic the Hedgehog should still be in 2D.[/QUOTE]

It is 2D on the DS... the games still suck, but that's neither here nor there.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']It is 2D on the DS... the games still suck, but that's neither here nor there.[/quote]

The Sonic Rush series is pretty good actually. Nothing revolutionary, but still good.
 
If 2d gaming was still king, the industry wouldn't be as large as it is now. As much as I like 2d games. 3d transformed the industry to be more acceptable as a mainstream form of entertainment.
 
The Second Dimension - 2D

For some time we've been so enthralled with the Third Dimension that we've gotten away from 2D. Thank goodness for portable systems and downloable titles, or else there'd be very little 2D on the market right now. But even though we've gotten away from 2D, there's still alot to accomplish in the world of 2D. Odin sphere, had slow down on the PS2... so that's an improvement that needs to be made for any future 2D games.

For the future I'd like to see some HD 2D games released. The problem is, if Bioshock (or any game) was made a 2D game it wouldn't be worth 60 dollars. We're in the age of the 50/60 dollar game, and 2D games can't really justify being 60 dollars. However, you give a Odin Sphere HD, or a Marvel vs Capcom HD, handdrawn, no slowdown 2D game and you can justify a full price tag. Imo people want to make products they can charge full price for. This is what I believe to be holding back the 2D games market. However, with online downloads, there's a avenue for a 2D games market... hopefully more than just Atlus jumps on (back on) the 2D bandwagon.

ps. I see ya Capcom.. didn't forget about you.
 
If Sega would remake all their oldschool games...... make them online co op, charge about 29.99 for the game, PS3, 360, or Wii. Make them 2d, HD, redraw, whatever, add some new stages. Re record the music, get some orchestra, etc. I mean put in some real work; Sega would be a much better company and they'd be making a lot more money.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']It is 2D on the DS... the games still suck, but that's neither here nor there.[/quote]

Yeah, I guess I forgot that the series has other problems. They should have quit inventing characters after Knuckles. If the Sonic Team (or whoever makes these shitty games) thinks anyone cares about any of the other characters they are sadly mistaken.

And the games shouldn't suck.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']
For the future I'd like to see some HD 2D games released. The problem is, if Bioshock (or any game) was made a 2D game it wouldn't be worth 60 dollars. We're in the age of the 50/60 dollar game, and 2D games can't really justify being 60 dollars.[/QUOTE]

Says me, who payed $70 for Donkey Kong Country.
 
I like how it is now, though I wish there were a little bit more in the 2D variety. Overall though, there are lots of gaming options, which is great. Hopefully it continues.
 
I don't know about you guys, but I crave another full fledged Super Mario Bros. That's one good thing that could come from a new 2D dominating generation.

New Super Mario Bros. just wasn't enough....

Don't get me wrong though, I like half and half.
 
[quote name='leveskikesko']I'm all about embracing 3D and innovation, but not at the expense of forgetting about a whole genre of games that still have not yet been fully explored. [/quote]

I agree with you 100000%.

I like 3D games, and I like the new types of gameplay they've given us, but I HATE that it's come at the expense of a ton of games and genres that are perfectly good. 2D games didn't somehow become less fun or less innovative or less whatever just because of 3D.

I agree about Galaxy too. It's a great game, and IMO the first 3D Mario game that actually deserves the Mario name, but it in no way replaces the 2D series, and it's still not as good as the 2D series.

I really miss both platformers and various action and adventure games done in 2D. The gameplay can't be replicated in 3D. Side scrolling fighters are another possible genre that needs a comeback. At least to date very few 3D scrolling fighters are as good (the huge exception being The Collective's Buffy game).

[quote name='leveskikesko']I don't know about you guys, but I crave another full fledged Super Mario Bros. That's one good thing that could come from a new 2D dominating generation.

New Super Mario Bros. just wasn't enough....

Don't get me wrong though, I like half and half.[/QUOTE]

I love New Super Mario Bros. I don't think it's up to par with Super Mario Bros. 3 or World, it does feel like a legitimate entry in the series. I hope they make another one (aka Super Mario Bros. 5 :) ) that expands on it, had more power ups, a more open overworld, etc.

I'd like more games try to be as ambitious as Super Mario Bros. 3, or Tomba 2, or Wonder Boy in Monster World, etc.
 
If 2d were king...I'd be playing a whole lot more amazing games like Odin Sphere (Just picked up a copy monday..fucking used for $30, but I couldn't find another within 50 miles of me.)
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']
I love New Super Mario Bros. I don't think it's up to par with Super Mario Bros. 3 or World, it does feel like a legitimate entry in the series. I hope they make another one (aka Super Mario Bros. 5 :) ) that expands on it, had more power ups, a more open overworld, etc.

I'd like more games try to be as ambitious as Super Mario Bros. 3, or Tomba 2, or Wonder Boy in Monster World, etc.[/quote]

Oh I love New Super Mario Bros., but I also hate it as a diehard Mario fan spoiled by Super Mario Bros. 3 awesomeness. It just lacked that uniqueness the other Marios had, and I'm not just speaking from an art perspective. The gameplay just feels recycled, it's ok to give us what we loved about the old, but mix it up a bit!

I'm willing to say even Super Mario Land 2 was better, which was a great game BTW, but in no way would I compare to the Super Mario series...unless you count the abortion that was the Japanese Super Mario Bros. 2.

Anywho I'm not giving up on the Super Mario series yet, I will happily accept a new 2D super Mario game if it's worth it.

So basically, I think we're on the same page here!
 
[quote name='Lord Draconus777']Says me, who payed $70 for Donkey Kong Country.[/QUOTE]


it wasn't that much when it was new in stores? was it? I have that game, and I know I didn't spend 70 dollars.
 
I wish a couple of these devs would use the strategy that Nintendo used with the Wii.

If everyone's running towards the 3d games market, then take it back to 2D. give a 30 dollar price tag, and make bread.(money)
 
[quote name='willardhaven']First thing that came to my mind: if 2d games were still king, Odin Sphere would have bombed.[/quote]

Really? I'm not so sure..

Beautiful game BTW. I hope the its wii counterpart turns out ok.
 
I had high hopes for OS (the art/graphics are superb), I found the actual game to be completely boring and repetitive. Grim Grimoire has the same visual flare but with much nicer gameplay (even though it too is repetitive).

I think a new 2d Zelda (ala Link to the Past) would be my top request in a world where 2d games were king.

A cel-shaded Donkey Kong Country or Mario Bros. might be really fun in 2d.

Just thinking of the cool effects and tricks that could be used is exciting.

Odin Sphere graphics with Castlevania gameplay would be another cool idea.
 
I hate that so often we're stuck putting up with games just BECAUSE they're 2D, even if they're not that great, or aren't ambitious (in terms of scale...not necessarily originality), or are too hard, or whatever.

I'd *LOVE* to see the full power of the Playstation 3 thrown at a 2D game. Do 720p hand drawn art, hundreds of MB of art, all towards something as good as some of the games I mentioned earlier. (And I mean a real game, not some DRMed up downloadable 40MB minigame).

A year ago I remember getting in an argument on some message board about 2D. Some idiots were claiming that it had already been graphically maxed out (they might have been talking about gameplay too). They couldn't seem to grasp that yes, a 2D game could push every ounce of power the Playstation 3 has, and yes, it could look a hell of a lot better than a Playstation 1 or GBA game.
 
I generally prefer 2D to 3D with the exception of racing games. I'd rather be playing the game then the camera. There are fun 3D games, sure, but I tend to think they'd have been more fun had they been in 2D. I just don't think it is possible to have a "3D" game on a 2D screen without there being significant issues.
 
[quote name='crunchewy']I generally prefer 2D to 3D with the exception of racing games. I'd rather be playing the game then the camera. There are fun 3D games, sure, but I tend to think they'd have been more fun had they been in 2D. I just don't think it is possible to have a "3D" game on a 2D screen without there being significant issues.[/QUOTE]

The whole "having to control the camera" as part of the gameplay became obvious and annoying to me back when Mario 64 launched. I still don't like it.

Since then we've gotten tons of 3D games that do things right, so I can't say I necessarily want more of one type of gameplay than the other, but 3D in no way replaces 2D gameplay.

I still think all these 3D itterations of 2D games are basically pointless. Even when they're good, they're not the same thing, not a true sequel, and would in no way detract from a real 2D sequel. The Mario games are a great example of that. Galaxy is the first one I think that actually deserves the Mario name, and they nailed the camera really well, but even still it's not the same thing and I prefer the 2D games.

Metroid's a weird case. Metroid Prime 1 actually did a remarkable job of duplicating the experience in 3D, but then Prime Hunters and Prime 3 are really pretty much first person shooters, not Metroid games.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']The whole "having to control the camera" as part of the gameplay became obvious and annoying to me back when Mario 64 launched. I still don't like it.
[/quote]

It doesn't bother me as long as the camera controls work well and don't constantly hit walls and shit like in Mario 64.

I love 3D gaming as I love having a big, "realistic" (doesn't have to be real world, prefer it not to be) world to explore.

Metroid's a weird case. Metroid Prime 1 actually did a remarkable job of duplicating the experience in 3D, but then Prime Hunters and Prime 3 are really pretty much first person shooters, not Metroid games.
Click to expand...

Hunters sucked balls. Prime 3, though, was my favorite of the series. Still felt like Metroid to me and I liked having more shooting, less reliance on lock-on etc.. You were shooting stuff constantly in the 2D Metroid games so it didn't feel jarring to me at all.

Also thought the difficulty was just right, the first 2 Prime games were a bit too hard on normal for me--especially the 2nd one which I never finished. Having normal and veteran from the start is the way to go. Not sure why Nintendo has been so resistant to have adjustable difficulty in their games--at least for games like Metroid where it makes since (i.e. games where the challenge isn't in platforming, solving puzzles like in Mario and Zelda respectively).
 
Huh, I actually thought Metroid Prime 3 was WAAAAAY too hard, but thought MP1 was okay. Just goes to show even difficulty can be kind of subjective :)

It didn't feel much like a Metroid game to me though. Kind of, I guess, but much more focused on being an FPS I thought than on (what was formerly called) Metroid-style gameplay.
 
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