What, no liberal slant on impending Iraqi civil war?

bmulligan

bmulligan

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Where's the love for US failure ? According to reports, Iraq is on the brink of an all out civil war due to the Suni bombing of a one of the most sacred temples in Islamic lore. Isn't that what all you liberals want so you can say "I told you so" and relish in the personal failure of George Bush and republicans in general?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11491483/


I know, it was probably the jews that did it, or Bush himself that came up with the plan so that we'll have to leave our troops there even longer. What else could it be ?
 
So, is everything in the middle east "one of the most sacred" somethings of Islam? It seems every month, something is going on at a different location that is supremely sacred to them, or something.
 
I for one support an Iraqi civil war, see if we keep them busy killing each other for the next decade not only will they be too busy to support terrorism but they'll need to sell us all their oil cheap to support the war effort.
 
Yes bmulligan, the impending Iraqi civil war is the fault of those who didn't support the troops. If only we'd bought more of those yellow-ribbon bumper stickers for our SUVs!
 
[quote name='bmulligan']
I know, it was probably the jews that did it, or Bush himself that came up with the plan so that we'll have to leave our troops there even longer. What else could it be ?[/QUOTE]


your a fool, nobody wants more death cept, well no well minded individual, but this is a result of nation making, from putting different groups into one thing called a country forces them together. Now we are trying to give everyone a say and this leads to more arguments than say a dictatorship where there is no arguing. It is bush's fault for flip flopping on the reasons for going to iraq in the first place. We shouldnt even be there, but thats a totally different story. Bush did make the bed and now we all have to lay in it. Ohh and how about this half a trillion spent on this crap war, when they estimated less than 100 bill, and bush laughed at Kerry when he said something on those lines. Ohh and why do you have to bring up jews arent they already a scapegoat enough without you bringing them up in your foolish posts.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']I for one support an Iraqi civil war, see if we keep them busy killing each other for the next decade not only will they be too busy to support terrorism but they'll need to sell us all their oil cheap to support the war effort.[/QUOTE]

I think this begs the question: if they all kill each other in a civil war, are we still obligated to rebuild the country?
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Where's the love for US failure ? According to reports, Iraq is on the brink of an all out civil war due to the Suni bombing of a one of the most sacred temples in Islamic lore. Isn't that what all you liberals want so you can say "I told you so" and relish in the personal failure of George Bush and republicans in general?[/QUOTE]

If you insist: I told you so.

Some people are able to use their brains and avoid problems before they happen: others have to stick their hands in the freaking fire before they can learn that its maybe not a bright idea.

And before you even waste time typing the reply that I know is coming, no, I'm really not happy that the US has failed utterly. Its simply that failure was the natural and entirely predictable outcome of the idiotic and completely corrupt actions of the Bush administration. I'd be much, much happier if we had avoided this whole mess in the first place. We didn't, so I'll take my pleasure where I can find it, by pointing out the fact that I was right all along.

Eh, I don't know why I even bother: you'll just deliberately misinterpret the above paragraph to claim that I'm happy US soldiers are dying, because its the only way you can live with the reality that you supported a president who lied to drag us into war, completely mismanaged that war turning it into an unwinnable situation. You know, deep down in your heart, that you share in some small way the responsibility for the tens of thousands of innocent people who have died in this little adventure, and the hundreds of thousands who have yet to die, because you supported the actions that brought us to this point. So you bury your head in the sand and blame everything on the evil liberals who caused us to fail in Iraq because they didn't believe hard enough or clap loud enough to overcome reality.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Where's the love for US failure ?[/QUOTE]

When did you steal Ann Coulter's playbook? I'll hunt down my quote somewhere else, but I already played this argument out with elprincipe. Simply put, there is certainly a feeling among many that being in Iraq is a dreadful idea, and each subsequent military death, civilian death, and bombing serves as a reminder of that dreadful idea. And, certainly, there are those people, unfortunately, who are so opposed to the Bush administration that any failure, even involving death or greater risk for war, is seen as a political opportunity, leading some people to the logical conclusion that "bad for Bush" = "good for us."

If you want to say that mentality is the exclusive domain of a single political party, you'd be dead wrong. I wouldn't expect you to make that conclusion.

On the other hand, as the king of slippery slopes, you're making an assumption that we all delight in bad things happening in Iraq. I don't. It breaks my (bleeding) heart. I don't relish in death. I see the bombing of this temple (1,200 year old!) are an unfortunate denouement that may lead to a shiite/sunni war. I can't say "I told you so," because I couldn't have forseen that event specifically, and I don't know so much about Muslim factions - in fact, I would have probably predicted the Kurds getting the raw end of the deal, given their history of state-based mistreatment. While I wouldn't say "I told you so," I will ask, "do you get it yet? do you understand how poorly planned this war is; how we lack the backing from the global community to come in and help us stablize the region; how we lack the numbers that our military said we would; how the developments in this war have shown our leadership to be concerned with the eradication of Hussein's government, and moderately disinterested in the democracy that's fledgling (at best) there?"

You may say that's no different than an "I told you so," and you know what, you *may* be right; I'd rather not take a traipse down semantics lane anyway. My point is that you impute that we take chaotic events in the region, when they come, with opportunistic glee. I argue that is a grave assumption on your part, and that I do not gleefully embrace anything so unfortunate. Those who ignore what moments like these mean regarding the war in Iraq in order to attack those opposed to the war are, in my opinion, the most misdirected. You're playing defense when the offense isn't on the field. Why is that?
 
Well, to quote drocket, "I told you so". But I don't think this is as indicative of civil war as they've been saying. It may increase fighting between groups or may increase recruitment for the insurgency, but I don't think it's teetering on the brink of civil war.

The people seem too aware of who is actually causing the damage, if militant groups can make it so they aren't the ones blamed (and israel and the u.s. aren't) then there's a real problem.
 
Moving beyond bmulligan's partisan message, are we really seeing the start of an all-out Iraqi civil war? Or will this simmer down in another week? I feel the latter is more probable.
 
[quote name='E-Z-B']Moving beyond bmulligan's partisan message, are we really seeing the start of an all-out Iraqi civil war? Or will this simmer down in another week? I feel the latter is more probable.[/quote]
They'll forget about the temple soon enough and concentrate again on the real problems at hand: Danish Cartoons and Burning American Flags.
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']I for one support an Iraqi civil war, see if we keep them busy killing each other for the next decade not only will they be too busy to support terrorism but they'll need to sell us all their oil cheap to support the war effort.[/QUOTE]I like the way you think. :cool:[quote name='RedvsBlue']I think this begs the question: if they all kill each other in a civil war, are we still obligated to rebuild the country?[/QUOTE]No, but someone has to step in and sell all that oil.
 
Yes, Iraq falling into civil war is all the fault of THE LIBURAL MEEEDIYA!!! That's why Drudge had, in big 40 point letters, across the top of his page, CIVIL WAR! Yes, Matt Drudge that dirty, dirty liberal.

The Iraqi Civil War has been going on for some time, interim President Allawi has been running around screaming this to anyone who'll listen, unfortunately, no one has (thanks liberal media!).
 
You may say that's no different than an "I told you so," and you know what, you *may* be right; I'd rather not take a traipse down semantics lane anyway. My point is that you impute that we take chaotic events in the region, when they come, with opportunistic glee. I argue that is a grave assumption on your part, and that I do not gleefully embrace anything so unfortunate. Those who ignore what moments like these mean regarding the war in Iraq in order to attack those opposed to the war are, in my opinion, the most misdirected. You're playing defense when the offense isn't on the field. Why is that?
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Actually, myke, I just thought the topic warranted a discussion becuase it's a major issue and conspicuously absent from the Vs. forum. And I thought I'd start the party with a good belt as many good parties often start, at least the ones that I've been to.

What I find interesting is that the supposed religion that bans idolotry reveres so many sacred sites and relics as capitalist_mao mentioned (or whatever his name is now...). It seems to be contrary to the tenets of the religion's foundation, much like worshipping a budda. It's not the thing, it's the idea. But, then again, we aren't talking about rationality or consistancy here anyway, just pure emotion and built-up hatred of those sneeches that believe their profits are the correct ones.

You'd think that after so many centuries of annihilating each other, muslims would be able to act in accordance with god's law side by side like catholics and protestants do today. I guess, when you're a Sunni, you either take power by force, or you blow people up until they give in to your demands. Great culture they have over there.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']You'd think that after so many centuries of annihilating each other, muslims would be able to act in accordance with god's law side by side like catholics and protestants do today. I guess, when you're a Sunni, you either take power by force, or you blow people up until they give in to your demands. Great culture they have over there.[/QUOTE]

Ummm....you mean like the Catholics and Protestants who as recently as a decade ago were still at each others' throats in Northern Ireland? Would you like to repeat your snippy "great culture" comment?

As far as starting the discussion with a "good belt," how about starting with a statement that doesn't demean others and make yourself look defensive and obnoxious? Those can be written, and written well, you know.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']You'd think that after so many centuries of annihilating each other, muslims would be able to act in accordance with god's law side by side like catholics and protestants do today. I guess, when you're a Sunni, you either take power by force, or you blow people up until they give in to your demands. Great culture they have over there.[/quote]

You could also say, I guess, when you're a christian, you either take power by force, or you blow people up until they give in to your demands.

Christians Turn on Muslims In Nigeria; More Than 30 Die
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/22/AR2006022200876.html
 
[quote name='bmulligan']

What I find interesting is that the supposed religion that bans idolotry reveres so many sacred sites and relics as capitalist_mao mentioned (or whatever his name is now...). It seems to be contrary to the tenets of the religion's foundation, much like worshipping a budda. It's not the thing, it's the idea. [/quote]

But they're not worshipping the building or anything, it's the connection it has to the sacred. Other religious groups ban idolotry and do the same. It's like how catholics (and other groups) use statues, elaborate crosses and such, but aren't worshiping them.

But, then again, we aren't talking about rationality or consistancy here anyway, just pure emotion and built-up hatred of those sneeches that believe their profits are the correct ones.
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You haven't encountered much religion, have you? Every religion thinks they're the correct one, and societies, and religions, the world over turn inward and more conservative when they feel threatened.

You'd think that after so many centuries of annihilating each other, muslims would be able to act in accordance with god's law side by side like catholics and protestants do today. I guess, when you're a Sunni, you either take power by force, or you blow people up until they give in to your demands. Great culture they have over there.
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Christians don't have a good track record for tolerating differences from within. Islam, as a whole, has had better relations between groups than christians seem to have had with various other christian groups.

Though camoor posted just the most recent example of christians behaving violently because of religion. It's not uncommon in certain regions.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Islam, as a whole, has had better relations between groups than christians seem to have had with various other christian groups.[/quote]
Are you sure about that? The reports and writings I read seemed to indicate that sunni and shia muslims were at each other's throats for a long time.
 
[quote name='kakomu']Are you sure about that? The reports and writings I read seemed to indicate that sunni and shia muslims were at each other's throats for a long time.[/quote]

From my understanding, taken as a whole, it wasn't as bad as what was going on in europe.
 
Sometimes, I hate being right.

Hopefully things will settle a bit but the biggest Sunni Arab bloc in parliament announced it was pulling out of talks on a new government until the national leadership apologizes for damage to Sunni mosques from reprisal attacks.
 
This whole civil war thing must be fake. Rummy insisted we were "seeing the last throes of the insurgency." A school was built. Some soldiers drilled a well or two. Kids are running up for candy.
 
[quote name='dennis_t']Ummm....you mean like the Catholics and Protestants who as recently as a decade ago were still at each others' throats in Northern Ireland? Would you like to repeat your snippy "great culture" comment?
[/QUOTE]

Ummm....Okay, I'll repeat: Great culture they have over there in my ancestral home of Ireland.

I'm not sure I understand your anger. Do you think I was singling them out becuase they were of Muslim faiths ? I think your hair trigger racism radar needs to be recalibrated.
 
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