What would it take to make you accept Digital Distrubtion as THE standard?

MSI Magus

MSI Magus

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Ok we all know regardless of how much we like or hate it it is coming. DD is growing and fast. Companies like Sony have even spoke out on how much they love DD because it cuts out used game sales and all the other middle men putting more money in their pocket.

It seems like there is a lot of resistance among gamers though, polls have shown the vast majority of us prefer having a hard copy of our games and that gamers tend to be more hardcore about having complete copies of their possessions then other gamers. So my question to you guys is what will it take to get you on board with Digital Distribution?

Personally I think DD could be great but it needs to take a few steps before I truly embrace it. The first and most important step is to ensure 3000% that I own the content I purchase and that I will always be able to have a way to download a replacement copy of my game. I think this is the biggest issue most people have. Its easy to think what stops this company from saying well this game isn't selling well anymore and its costing us to host it so lets take it down. I want to know that my game is always going to be there for me to download. I called for the development of a video game library in the past and I again think its a great idea but if it isn't going to be made then there needs to at least be some kind of graveyard where non commercially viable DD games go to die but still be accessible to those that purchased it.

The second big issue I have with DD is the fact that the pricing seems absolutely whacked. I am sorry but it is insane to charge people $20 for a game that can be finished in just a few hours. And it is even more insane to charge $5-$10 for copies of games like Sonic and Super Mario World that I can find floating around on ebay, craigslist and garage sales for $1-$3. The pricing model of these games needs to be restructured and if not restructured then they need price drops much faster. Price drops is my third issue with these games. We have become ajusted to the price of games falling very fast recently, a game is released and 2 months later you get 1/4th off the intial price....another 4 months and the game is half price or less. Meanwhile the DD games are still full price that were put on XBLA 2 years ago. This is just insane! If I am to embrace DD I want to be ensured that Halo 4 isnt going to be $60 for 5 years or that Little Big Planet 3 is going to be $60 for 8 years!

My final issue is that this will kill collectors items. I am a big collector and to loose the ability to display my wall of video games is bad/sad enough. I could deal with this....but to completely loose collectors editions is sad too. I am sure companies will make DD collectors editions but it probably will be stupid stuff like in game content which half the time becomes free anyways! I hope that if DD becomes the standard in the future then game companies are cool/smart enough to offer gamers CE that still come with physical bonus items that they would mail to you.

/end wall of text

What do you guys want to see happan before DD becomes the industry standard?
 
I will never embrace it unless there is a way to (i) sell the download (either back to where it came from or to a third party) and (ii) trade it with someone else. The pricing and access issues you mentioned are important too - I don't want to pay $60 for a year old game and I certainly want the ability to play whatever I buy 10, 20 or 30+ years from now if I'm in the mood.
 
I only get the cheap or small DD. I'm not going to spend 60 on a DD of Bioshock or Killzone 2. 30 is my limit.
 
[quote name='Paco']I only get the cheap or small DD. I'm not going to spend 60 on a DD of Bioshock or Killzone 2. 30 is my limit.[/QUOTE]

What if they brought standard price down to $50(or even kept it $60)but then introduced a pricing structure where the game does indeed after a year hit the $30ish mark?
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']What if they brought standard price down to $50(or even kept it $60)but then introduced a pricing structure where the game does indeed after a year hit the $30ish mark?[/quote]


$30 after a year?

I just bought Prince of Persia: LE for $30 used. Im not waiting a damn year for half price.
 
The real problem is that you can't resell DD games...

I recently purchased UT3 on Steam when they were having a sale. The game is horrible. If I had purchased it in stores, I could attempt to resell it and hopefully make most of my money back.
 
I would expect lower prices, in the neighborhood of $20-$30 dollars or maybe even a pay to play scheme. The problem with digital downloads is that you only own a license to play but do not actually own a copy of the software (same as itunes) so there is no way for you to trade/sell games once you've completed them. This in itself would kill off most of the used game market and limit flipping which we as CAGs love. I like the idea of digital downloads (i certainly can use the shelf space eaten up by games) but in reality we are at least a decade away from it being the standard.
 
[quote name='benjamouth']Prices will have to come down, a lot. I'll give up gaming all together rather than be forced to pay $60 or more for games.[/QUOTE]

Ditto I'll probably wind up giving up gaming as well and just start playing through my huge backlog which by then would be called "classic games."

Digital Distribution just sucks, especially for retail games. Right now any retail game offered through Digital Distribution console wise can be found cheaper easily.

It would also mean a lack of deals and the traffic at cheapassgamer would really slow down, if not become defunct since there are almost no deals offered through console Digital Distribution.

For me to accept DD retail games would have to drop tremondously ($30 or less, which isn't going to happen) and come closer to the price of indie games.

They think that there slick and they would charge full price for games even though there are saving money buy not having to deal with retail packing and shipping games out to stores.
 
[quote name='magus83']

They think that there slick and they would charge full price for games even though there are saving money buy not having to deal with retail packing and shipping games out to stores.[/QUOTE]

Totally agree. Digital downloads help out sony/MS/Nintendo's bottom line but what does it do for me the customer. If prices aren't significantly lower than hard copies than why should I bother with it, knowing full well that I'll be blowing X amount of dollars on a game that I'll never ever get back.
 
The market will adjust. DD will become the only way to get your games, and prices will not adjust down. At least not much. The same games may be offered as retail for a markup, but they will also start to offer incentives to purchase as DD. It's just too good for the publishers.

Next generation as broadband penetration and speeds increase, this will happen.
 
Why am I not surprised that instead of offering solutions and suggestions on what would move the industry and DD content forward to a place where it would be acceptable all everyone is doing is bitching about the current model.......
 
This sounds stupid, but I need a physical manifestation of something I buy... even if it's just a certificate or something equally useless to most people. For something like gaming and game collecting, a hobby that is absolutely precious to me, this is important.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Why am I not surprised that instead of offering solutions and suggestions on what would move the industry and DD content forward to a place where it would be acceptable all everyone is doing is bitching about the current model.......[/quote]

Look a little past the "bitching" and you'll see the problems that people have. They're answering your question, putting the meat on your plate so to speak, think and chew that meat a little, so that you can digest it.

Why do you make a bitchy post to complain about bitching?
 
Copy protection kills any benefit at all for dowloading full games or movies. I cant/wont toss my PS3 in my car so the kids can watch a movie on long drives. If we have DD using the current method of copy protection you will need HD's in any media player you own and have to lug that sucker everywhere, instead of just grabbing the disk and putting it in your bag. Imagine the trip to the summer house, what a joke. Most houses have multiple players so they dont have to move the unit, just the disk.

Just wait until you download 50 movies from 10 different places over a 5 year period and want to upgrade your player, or your player dies. You will need to remember where you purchased every movie and contact them to get the rights. Look at Singstar downloads as an example, if you upgrade your HD on the PS3 your fucked, they wont let you redownload them without blowing somebody.

Anyway you look at it copy protection/DRM whatever you call it, in its current state is bad for so many reasons I would rather watch OTA/cable movies and quit playing games then go to DD. That video somebody posted in the other thread was a great example of things to come if this were to become the norm.
 
I dread this. It's really important to me to have a physical product, for so many reasons-- being able to display my collection on the shelf; portability; knowing that as long as I keep the disc and the console safe, I'll be able to pull out and play Soul Calibur 50 years from now if I want to. I mean, I've downloaded a few Virtual Console games and that's all well and good, but somehow I never truly feel like I "own" those in the same way I own a disc on the shelf. The collection aspect is a big part of the experience for me, and gaming just wouldn't be as fun without it. I realize that probably sounds lame to a lot of people, but that's just the way it is for me. If the future of gaming really is exclusively digital distribution, I'm going to be a lot less interested-- I'll probably just stick to playing the new Final Fantasy every couple of years and maybe a handful of others. My wife will love it. ;)
 
To say "What do you guys want to see happan before DD becomes the industry standard?" assumes that we want it or that we recognize it as the future. A slightly more relevant question is, what NEEDS to happen in the industry before DD only even has a chance.

First thing, the business model on the hardware end has to change. Otherwise no retailer is going to spend shelf space carrying a device which gives them no profit.

The idea of guaranteeing future support despite the demise of the company, or the service in question voluntarily removing it, is high fiction at this point. Even if you had a national library company whose only purpose was to buy the rights of all dead games to rehost them, they would almost necessarily lose money and not everyone would take their deal to sell out. We cant even get the rights to many games for existing services like the Virtual Console. DD is and will always be, a rental of indeterminant length.

The first home console to go full DD only is going to get crushed by whichever competitor isnt limiting their install base to the current broadband penetration figures.

For me personally, it would have to be completely free. They would have to adopt some sort of business model that mimics the free to play MMOs. Maybe subsist on selling non-criticial extras via DLC and ads. I'm willing to entertain the idea that it wont be abused for the sake of this argument. Once I pay a single dime, I'm going to need to have a physical product that will always be mine to do with what I wish.

Proposal: An online marketplace wherein I can sell the rights to play my downloadable game I bought to you for whatever the market prices will fetch. Once I sell it, I can no longer play it. This is also high fiction.

There is a collectors paradox here. Something you cant own becomes the ultimate limited edition. You either buy it while its live on the service or you will never get it.
 
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There are several problems I see with the digital distribution model as it currently stands. The three major issues at hand are DRM, first right of sale, and cost; yet some of these issues are closely intertwined with each other. There are of course other issues such as consumers preferring a physical copy, or missing the extras included with digital copies, yet I feel these problems really take a back burner to the primary issues I listed before.

DRM is probably the largest issue at hand and the most frustrating to consumers. Personally, I don't like being restricted with a product I buy. I like to use it when I want, where I want, on as many devices as I want. The only system in place that handles this problem efficiency is with Steam. There are no restrictions on when I play, where I play, or on how many systems I have installed as long as I can remember my Steam ID. Steam's DRM places little restrictions on the consumer, yet still provides some comfort to the publisher that their software is not pirated. Unfortunately, consumers still need to be willing to give up on their first right of sale, which brings me to my next point.

Price & First Right of Sale. In order for digital distribution to be widely accepted consumers must be willing to give up their first right of sale, and companies need to be willing to provide enough incentive for consumers to do so. The price of a digital copy needs to be reduced enough to entice consumers to give up any advantages of physical copies.

Honestly though, I'm not sure if I would ever be willing to accept digital distribution as the standard; I like having physical copies of things I own and I'm not sure if I'm willing to give up my right to sale in all cases. In order for digital distribution to really thrive, it needs to co-exist with the ability to buy physical copies, albeit for an increased price over digital.
 
The newer(next?) generation of kids may not need a physical product. They likely listen to music but may not ever purchase a physical cd. DD may become more viable as that mentality spreads.

There is no hope for the old guard though. Its a generational problem.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']The newer(next?) generation of kids may not need a physical product. They likely listen to music but may not ever purchase a physical cd. DD may become more viable as that mentality spreads.

There is no hope for the old guard though. Its a generational problem.[/QUOTE]

I think they will realize a problem still exists when they can't trade in that game they bought, which they beat or turned out to be crap and use that credit to buy new games.

Also what about Co-op games, the great thing about a lot of them like x-men legends, the warriors, etc is to be able to take them to a friends house and play them together which is a great draw to these games because they will most likely not have them, since there not your typical gears of war/Halo game.

Edit: Just like Bionic commando rearmed unless I'm mistakes, I can't buy this on my xbox and just redownload this to my friends 360 so we can play Co-op.
 
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I think it will have to go the way of TV: free but ad supported first (=broadcast), then premium pay services (=cable). People will accept that.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']They would have to adopt some sort of business model that mimics the free to play MMOs. Maybe subsist on selling non-criticial extras via DLC and ads. I'm willing to entertain the idea that it wont be abused for the sake of this argument.[/quote]
Interesting insight. I wonder if the upshot of all this is that the only profitable directions for games to go are either online/MMO or small-scale VC/WiiWare-type releases, and the big-budget single-player blockbuster will become a thing of the past. Sometimes I feel like things are already moving in this direction, with online multiplayer being the main draw and the single-player campaign a tacked-on afterthought for a lot of games.
 
Unless DD is significantly lower than physical media, I'm not interested. By significant, I mean at least 75% less than the retail price of physical media. Since DD cannot be resold, I'm not going to want to pay much money for it.
 
- DD would need to be priced significantly lower (at least 33% in my opinion)
- Since there is no way to resell games they would need some sort of loyalty program (i.e. if you purchased x amount of previous games then save 10% on your next purchase.)
- They need to make high speed internet (other than satellite) available to me :bomb:
 
It upsets me when digital content is priced the same as physical content
It upsets me that digital distribution carries artificial barriers like memory caps
It upsets me that digital distribution for some (nintendo?) does not and may not see a price drop

But, the pluses may outweigh the negatives-
Backlist and midlist titles can be found more easily
Games can be purchased more easily
Surfaces like steam streamline patch distribution, allow for content to be enjoyed on multiple machines (and eventually saved games as well)
the environmental impact of less packaging

But will it be THE way? Used game sales are a prickly issue. But maybe the real one is the holiday and gift buying means by which other people purchase gifts. Videogames drive foot traffic to store and when friends and family purchase gifts, they are more, much more, likely to be physical copies of games.
You can't "unwrap" a downloaded copy of Fallout 3 or put the Steam service in a box underneath a Christmas tree.
 
3 Things:

1. All encompassing backup of everything I've purchased for what ever console, from whatever publisher, and for all time.
Seems like we'd all get screwed out of this one.
2. Someway to resell or at least trade my game
3. A decent break on prices...no more boxes, manuals, coverart, and no more used games means more initial sales for publishers which means I want it for less.

I think it will take a bit more time until it all goes DD but it will most likely be inevitable. Although I'm sure Nintendo will push a proprietary format until the end of time. I think we'll all have to bite the bullet at some point if we still want to game in the future.
 
No DRM. I have nothing against DRMs but I want to play my games decades from now. By then any DRM servers will be long gone and console lock means games are gone forever when console craps.
 
I already get almost all my games from downloading them, so I'm all for digital distribution.

A unified platform that allowed you to download all games, such as Steam for PCs and consoles alike, with the ability to trade licenses ala a user to user trade screen like those found in MMO games where you could trade multiple licenses, credits, or 1 to 1 trades. Also, the ability to give up your license for... lets say 45% of what you paid for the game would be perfect.
 
Cut the price of the game by at least 50%

Work out a sensible system for resale.

Offer to send a physical copy to any owners who request it for a additional fee.
 
You are never going to get around DRM, simply put you are not buying a physical copy you are merely purchasing a license to play. Thus, you have no right of first sale because you didn't buy anything but a license and as such the product is not transferrable.
 
Look a little past the "bitching" and you'll see the problems that people have. They're answering your question, putting the meat on your plate so to speak, think and chew that meat a little, so that you can digest it.

Why do you make a bitchy post to complain about bitching?
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Ermmmm no. I understand peoples complaints, most of the complaints they are making are my thoughts exactly. But it still doesnt answer the question. I am sorry but yes you can "chew it over" and come to the conclussion that DD games dont let you own a hard copy...but bitching and moaning over it is not the same as giving a direct answer. Whatever though, gonna stay on topic, stupid to argue over something like this. Ill say this and drop it....you realize your bitching, about me bitching....about their bitching. Thats 10x worse.

"The newer(next?) generation of kids may not need a physical product. They likely listen to music but may not ever purchase a physical cd. DD may become more viable as that mentality spreads.

There is no hope for the old guard though. Its a generational problem."
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I cant remember if it was the head of activision, atari or what company it was but the head of one of them called kids under 18 or 16 or something like that the download generation. He said their company was shiftting focus fast towards DD because theres a whole generation out there of kids most of whom have never even owned a hard copy of CD and that the next generation will probaly be the same with video games. Its just a matter of if they are legally buying them or getting them from torrents or else where. It is crazy to think that within the next 10 years there could seriously be a generation of children that just have grown up without physical copies of any of their media.

Heres my question to all you people bitching and moaning that you will either never accept DD or that you wont less games are like 75% off. What are you going to do when DD becomes the mainstream anyways? Are you just going to quit gaming? You say you wont accept DD like you have the power in the situation, as I said above our generation will be one of the last with issues with DD. Our kids or kids born shortly after are going to grow up with this being a norm so we dont exactly have a lot of say in the matter....its going to happen. So again the question shouldnt be why you hate DD but how you can accept it being eased into gaming in a way the benefits us vs just hurts us.

On the topic of distrubtion in a pay to play kind of thing. I dont think it will happen. Its a popular model mentioned often, but if you look most people working directly in the industry seem to be against it and it should be clear why. Unless something like Steam steps forward and becomes the universal standard(which wont happen)it means there would be many many competing models out there. Gamers arnt going to pay $10 a month to Activision, $10 to Squaresoft, $5 to Atari, $10 to Sony etc etc. And even if just Sony/MS/Nintendo stepped up to offer services like steam it would be a momentous headache for the developers having to release and deal with the legality of all 3. I just dont see it happening. The only other rival model to companies just putting out their own DD games I can see is for games to go free and be payed by a mix of advertising and DLC such as Korean developers are doing.....but this method would suck balls since they really bleed you dry.
 
[quote name='kill3r7']You are never going to get around DRM, simply put you are not buying a physical copy you are merely purchasing a license to play. Thus, you have no right of first sale because you didn't buy anything but a license and as such the product is not transferrable.[/QUOTE]

Which is a problem that needs to be fought. This is the kind of stuff that gamers need to be outraged about and talking about. Instead of saying I will never buy a DD game we need to be telling developers I will buy it if it doesnt have DRM and the price is reasonable(you guys need to get past this whole resale of games things, that ship has sailed).
 
Something I love about Steam that should be brought into all digital distribution platforms:

The ability to buy a physical copy, punch in a cd-key, and have it turned into a digital copy while being able to keep my physical copy as backup.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Which is a problem that needs to be fought. This is the kind of stuff that gamers need to be outraged about and talking about. Instead of saying I will never buy a DD game we need to be telling developers I will buy it if it doesnt have DRM and the price is reasonable(you guys need to get past this whole resale of games things, that ship has sailed).[/QUOTE]

This is not a gamer issue but rather a legal issue, as it stands right now legislation just doesn't allow for the elimination of DRM to occur. For change to occur, it would require a major shift in the entertainment industry overall not just gaming. It's not likely to happen anytime soon considering there are very profitable models out there right now such as itunes, xbox live, wiiware, psn etc. There is no incentive for the entertainment industry to go through such radical changes.
 
[quote name='bhk']Something I love about Steam that should be brought into all digital distribution platforms:

The ability to buy a physical copy, punch in a cd-key, and have it turned into a digital copy while being able to keep my physical copy as backup.[/QUOTE]

This is another thing I think we should see for console games in the future. I own Jade Empire for the Xbox and its bull shit that I have to pay $20 to download it on Xbox Live. I dont know how it will work....but I think that companies need to start finding ways for people to be able to download games for free(or even a small like $1 or $2 fee)that they already own.

This is not a gamer issue but rather a legal issue, as it stands right now legislation just doesn't allow for the elimination of DRM to occur. For change to occur, it would require a major shift in the entertainment industry overall not just gaming. It's not likely to happen anytime soon considering there are very profitable models out there right now such as itunes, xbox live, wiiware, psn etc. There is no incentive for the entertainment industry to go through such radical changes.
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Disagree. I think it is indeed a gamer issue since it effects us in such a huge way and if gamers bitch enough about it developers will find a way to make the law work for us or have the law changed.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']
Disagree. I think it is indeed a gamer issue since it effects us in such a huge way and if gamers bitch enough about it developers will find a way to make the law work for us or have the law changed.[/QUOTE]

If copyright laws are changed they won't be specifically changed for gaming. Any change would effect the entire entertainment industry. The entertainment industry spend the better part of 15 years trying to have such regulations implemented. Somehow I don't see them going back on their effort.
 
I'm already ready to quit gaming at the drop of a hat. I've already got a full lifetime's worth of backlog with the standard definition consoles.

I'll probably quit curent gen gaming LONG BEFORE DD becomes the standard. However, I expect Nintendo to have something to say about this whole "future" thing.
 
I already accept it...

If tomorrow I could buy Fallout 3 on Xbox Live and there was no physical copy sold, they could immediately cut $20 off the price without the likes of GameStop forcing similar prices on digitally distributed content.

Games cost the same (usually) through digital distribution not because of the "greed" of the license holder, but the power that big retail still holds over publishers.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']I'm already ready to quit gaming at the drop of a hat. I've already got a full lifetime's worth of backlog with the standard definition consoles.

I'll probably quit curent gen gaming LONG BEFORE DD becomes the standard. However, I expect Nintendo to have something to say about this whole "future" thing.[/quote]

Are you trying to kill gaming or something?
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']I'm already ready to quit gaming at the drop of a hat. I've already got a full lifetime's worth of backlog with the standard definition consoles.

I'll probably quit curent gen gaming LONG BEFORE DD becomes the standard. However, I expect Nintendo to have something to say about this whole "future" thing.[/QUOTE]

Well, the way things are going, I wouldn't expect digital distribution to be the standard until at least 2020. By then, we'll be on the equivalent of the xbox 4 or 5 and the Playstaiton 6. or around there.

So we've got a while yet, lol. :)
 
Just having a little fun with photoshop :)

PhotoshopWeeee.gif
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']Just having a little fun with photoshop :)

PhotoshopWeeee.gif
[/QUOTE]

I'd totally support that in a heartbeat. Send that image to Valve now. lol.
 
Lets imagine a scenario where company A, B and C launch consoles within a year of each other or so, as they tend to do every now and again.

Company A and B are full DD only, where as C has chosen to stick with the traditional retail model. When people walk into any retail store, the shelf space presense is going to be heavily geared toward company C. This should aid them in dominating the crap out of A and B.

Perhaps the two standards can coexist, or at least it doesnt have to be full on DD. A mix, if you will. That Kindle reading device from Amazon is selling like hotcakes. However, I imagine that books are going to be with us for quite some time longer.
 
Just like everybody else, for me to accept digital downloads I'd like them to have most of the same positive qualities as physical media.

1. Infinite re-downloads
2. Lower prices than physical media (and sales/price drops over time)
3. DRM that doesn't block the ability to move to another device
4. Some way to resell/trade my license

If there's a possibility of resale the price does not need to be lowered too much (vs. physical media games) and with inflation the prices will go up anyway. It just doesn't make sense to pay just as much for something that didn't take as much money to create. When everything is digital there won't be any comparison and that won't matter anymore.

It would be nice if there were more than one place to buy the games and so there would be price competition and sales/etc. They need to treat the digital downloads more like a physical product in that sense. They can sell licenses to various stores just as they do physical games and those stores can have sales and clearances at their discretion. In the B&M stores they could either have XBLA-style cards with licenses or have some kind of digital interface with which people can buy games that are sent directly to their accounts or they can have some kind of printout/email with a code to be used later. The biggest problem with this sort of thing is simply that there's no reason to have a clearance on something that isn't taking up space. There could still be sales to get people into a store, but there isn't much sense in clearancing digital items (unless they do it on cards like XBLA and there is physical space used). So the only reason to clearance a game would be just to get rid of it when hardly anybody is buying it and get some money back.

The biggest problem for me is rental/resale. I don't usually rent things, but I always sell off/trade games I don't play. So for me to fully buy into it there really needs to be a system of temporary licenses for rental and licenses that can be deactivated for an account and transferred to another. It really doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me and I doubt that piracy would be a significant problem. Most people will do it legit.
 
There will be no retail space, as everyone will just buy everything online with display models in stores much like catalog stores.

Dunn DUnn DUNNNNNN
 
There will be no retail space for the DD only consoles by definition, yes. But should one company choose to remain in the retail space, they will by defintion...have retail space. And they will dominate.
 
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