What would it take to make you accept Digital Distrubtion as THE standard?

[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']I'll always be playing games. I just wont be playing the newest games. I'll be a retro-gamer. Unless retro-gamers arent gamers.[/quote]

I dont know if a retro-game is even a game.
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']:lol: Funniest thing I've read all morning.

But, Floods, you still haven't addressed the major flaw of not being able to sell the games we supposedly possess if DD takes over.[/QUOTE]

I really dont understand why this is such an issue. People are acting like its some constitutionally granted right to sell anything you buy or something. Also 90% of the time when you sell stuff your taking a lose and 90% of the people I know that sell their games later said they wish they wouldnt have. We also have demos now days which can give you a good indication of a game, especially in combination with video reviews available online that show so much gameplay. Yes sometimes a demo can be misleading or a game can go downhill in the second half. But I am sorry your a moron if you buy a game for $60, don't like it and sell it for $30-$40 at best in this day and age.

Regardless of this fact I think its compltly insane as I have stated several times to expect to be able to resell games you download AND for them to be priced $20 lower then they currently are. I could see maybe a $5 cut and resell or to be standard price and be allowed to resell....but asking for $20 off AND the abilty to resell is just asking far too much and being completely unreasonable.
 
It gotta be cheap... say $60, digital download should be $20. If they do that, hell with physical discs. Oh, also maybe some coupons for CE/LE add-ons, that would be totally awesome!

Oh, no need to be available for "game sharing," but i should be able to download the games i purchased unlimited times. The purchases should be tied to my account, so that if my console is replaced, i should be able to "attach" the games to the new console w/o so much headaches. Game saves should not be tied to account though, so that you can e-mail them to other players. However, individual achievements/trophies are attached to your account. And yes, hdd should be upgradable, not some primary/first party crap like the Xbox 360's hard drive. That implies backing up and restore using external hdds.

If they can do that, that would be awesomely awesome... Personally, i hate to put a disc into the console. Why can't i just press a button and the entire personal library is in a menu eh?
 
Another plus for download games is that it will never be OOS (for now). The price might not drop that much but it will also not go up.

I also never buy a new game thinking how much i could resell it, as I usually do my research and know if i want to keep it. With listing fees, shipping, and quick price drop it is not worth it. If you quickly get rid of your games you need to consider gamefly.
 
I don't care if it has a resell option, I don't sell games off to begin with. But the following I think needs to be addressed on the consumer side of things:

1) Price-drops need to happen. I think this will happen nonetheless as publishers will want to see increased sales once the intital downloads wane off. Especially as it is considered a risky business. If you upload a game on the server and it only sells 100K but you need it to sell at least 500K for it to break even, a price drop is going to be needed to try to recoup cost ASAP.

2) Permanent ownership. There has to be a way to ensure that what you buy now you won't have to buy again in five years. I don't want to keep buying the same copy of FFXIII over and over again because I upgrade to a new platformer, my older system dies, or because "my license with the game expires after X date".

3) Speedy delivery. I don't want to wait an hour or three downloading a fucking video game. That means broadband needs to be expanded and lets face it, broadband may not be fast enough for modern games to be delivered within a reasonable time limit. Especially as the size of the game increases.
 
[quote name='M-PG71C']I don't care if it has a resell option, I don't sell games off to begin with. But the following I think needs to be addressed on the consumer side of things:

1) Price-drops need to happen. I think this will happen nonetheless as publishers will want to see increased sales once the intital downloads wane off. Especially as it is considered a risky business. If you upload a game on the server and it only sells 100K but you need it to sell at least 500K for it to break even, a price drop is going to be needed to try to recoup cost ASAP.

2) Permanent ownership. There has to be a way to ensure that what you buy now you won't have to buy again in five years. I don't want to keep buying the same copy of FFXIII over and over again because I upgrade to a new platformer, my older system dies, or because "my license with the game expires after X date".

3) Speedy delivery. I don't want to wait an hour or three downloading a fucking video game. That means broadband needs to be expanded and lets face it, broadband may not be fast enough for modern games to be delivered within a reasonable time limit. Especially as the size of the game increases.[/quote]

Steam addresses all of these things.
The last thing is dependent on where you live.
 
I'm a gamer and I probably will give up gaming if they stop making physical copies. I've only spent 1600 points on Xbox Live and 1200 were for the new Street Fighter II. I didn't mind spending those points on that since it's a full game with online play. I also know I'll never sell it off so it's all good.

On the other hand, most of the games I play are one and done type games. I'm not going back to play F.E.A.R. and the Darkness again so I got rid of them on Goozex and GameTZ. If I couldn't trade games here and at the other places, I'd already be out of gaming. I love this hobby but I'll switch to something else if they want to go digital. I have no problem giving something up if it's not financially feasible to continue doing it.

Magus, stop acting like game companies have to do this to stay afloat. They should start making better games that will people will buy at full price. They should stop charging $5-$10 for map packs less than two months after release. EA and Epic are prime examples. Need for Speed Undercover had over $100 in DLC on release day! That's ridiculous. Epic just released the Combustion Map Pack for Gears 2 and they expect everyone to plunk down another $10 less than two months after release. In my opinion, DLC has gone too far. It's become a money grab and little else.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']I really dont understand why this is such an issue. People are acting like its some constitutionally granted right to sell anything you buy or something. [/QUOTE]

Huh? No one is saying it's a right.

I'm saying I seldom replay games so it's just throwing money away for me so I'd buy much less or not buy at all.

And I've never once regretted selling a game. Especially since the advent of Goozex since the point values are pretty damn good there. But in any case I'm ditching something that would just gather dust (I'll keep around the games I keep playing online, or the very rare one I want to replay--something with multiple quests etc.), so any money back is better than nothing. Renting would make more sense for me I guess, but I don't game enough to justify the cost of a rental service--that would add up to more a year than what I spend on acquiring games since I get most off of goozex.

There's nothing about rights in there. Just a decision on what is or isn't worth my hard earned money. Digital downloads would probably just get me to quit gaming--though maybe a moot point as I probably won't have time for it much after finishing up my degree and starting my real job next summer anyway.

[quote name='FloodsAreUponUS']The thing is I dont want to sell back my games. I want to play them.[/QUOTE]

So digital download is probably fine for people like you. I want to play my games, beat them (if I like it enough to finish) and ditch it as I'll never touch 99% of single player games again after seeing the credits roll.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']I really dont understand why this is such an issue. People are acting like its some constitutionally granted right to sell anything you buy or something. Also 90% of the time when you sell stuff your taking a lose and 90% of the people I know that sell their games later said they wish they wouldnt have. We also have demos now days which can give you a good indication of a game, especially in combination with video reviews available online that show so much gameplay. Yes sometimes a demo can be misleading or a game can go downhill in the second half. But I am sorry your a moron if you buy a game for $60, don't like it and sell it for $30-$40 at best in this day and age.

Regardless of this fact I think its compltly insane as I have stated several times to expect to be able to resell games you download AND for them to be priced $20 lower then they currently are. I could see maybe a $5 cut and resell or to be standard price and be allowed to resell....but asking for $20 off AND the abilty to resell is just asking far too much and being completely unreasonable.[/quote]


Wait, what? So what's your solution, have the game be full price and don't allow reselling it? And I'd say maybe 10% of the games I bought last year had demos. You're a moron for buying a game for $60 and selling it for $40? So buying a game for $60, hating it and not being able to resell it makes you a genius? Why wouldn't they be priced lower? The companies don't have to pay for any manufacturing costs. I can find games on sale all the time, that's why I'm here. There are going to be far fewer sales with just digital downloads. The PSN has like three mediocre sales a year. Wii Shop Channel doesn't have any that I'm aware of.
 
Digtial Distribution is going to take over eventually. It doesn't matter if I like it or not, it is the future after all.

Once I wake up out of this Matrix maybe I can fight it.

Vroooooooooom!
 
My only problems is that you cannot resell or trade Digital copies. Plus, I like having a physical copy along with a case and book. :(
 
[quote name='rainking187']Wait, what? So what's your solution, have the game be full price and don't allow reselling it? And I'd say maybe 10% of the games I bought last year had demos. You're a moron for buying a game for $60 and selling it for $40? So buying a game for $60, hating it and not being able to resell it makes you a genius? Why wouldn't they be priced lower? The companies don't have to pay for any manufacturing costs. I can find games on sale all the time, that's why I'm here. There are going to be far fewer sales with just digital downloads. The PSN has like three mediocre sales a year. Wii Shop Channel doesn't have any that I'm aware of.[/QUOTE]

Ermmmmmm read my first post and you will see that everything your saying is wrong. I didnt say that games should be $60 and we have the abilty to resell....I called for price drops on games and bitched about how so far we havnt seen them. Nice though, calling me a moron without even reading the topic post. What did you do just read the topic title and the last post on the page and jump into the conversation or something........
 
Reading your first post, Magus, I don't understand alot of your points. You said that we would have to have 100% ownership of the games but how is that even possible with digital distribution? How much would you have to pay for a game for them to keep the servers up for ten years? What if I want to go download it in twenty years? I just opened up the closet and hooked up my Genesis. I've had those games for twenty years. Would that even be possible with digital distribution?
 
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[quote name='MSI Magus']Ermmmmmm read my first post and you will see that everything your saying is wrong. I didnt say that games should be $60 and we have the abilty to resell....I called for price drops on games and bitched about how so far we havnt seen them. Nice though, calling me a moron without even reading the topic post. What did you do just read the topic title and the last post on the page and jump into the conversation or something........[/QUOTE]



First off, I didn't call you a moron, I was quoting you. You said the moron thing. Secondly after rereading the initial post I have no idea what you are talking about. First you say you want to own the games and pay less, then you say that having the ability to resell the games and have them sold at a discount is asking too much. You aren't making any sense.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']
2. Most of the people I am saying are being illogical are the people that say they will accept DD but only if they get price drops and the abilty to resell their product. This is NOT going to happen and its compltly unreasonable. [/quote]

I agree with this. Just because I have stated that I want those things by no means implies that I ever expect that to happen.

The thread was about what would make me 'accept' DD as the standard. Not how I thought DD would actually develop. The way I'm actually going to accept this is when its the only means of acquiring new games. Maybe it's a good thing, because it will certainly curtail the amount of money I spend, and games I "buy".

I'm never going to stop gaming so if things develop that way then I'll have to learn to live with it. But I do reserve the right to bitch about it in gaming forums. ;)
 
I don't sell many of my games. However, I want the *ability* to do so.
And just because it's DD doesn't mean it'll always be available. The company could easily go under or decide to limit number of redownloads, etc.
Nor does it mean the price would remain the same. If it's DD it would be all too easy to link the price of the game to the number of hits on the game detail page, so as demand goes up, price goes up.
I certainly don't think the things I want will happen. But they are what it would take for me to accept DD as THE standard.
 
Digital distribution itself is not my problem. I have no intention of paying for something I can't play anytime I want.
 
cheaper game prices ( 25 to 35 should be the standard price)

more substantial and cheaper dlc ( no more 5 bucks for a gun or skins shit)

faster download speeds for said games

the ability to share those games and dlc you buy with at least 1 or 2 other people without limitations or having to do that share trick people do on psn. you should be able to just give people a code to dl them.

more robust online multiplayer in games where and if possible.
 
DD is good, but its going to have to coexist with the B&M stores. When I make a purchase I like to have something tangible to take home. I guess this is old fashioned thinking, but later on people are going to be willing to buy everything via DD. There's definitely a DD trend.


Sony has a good take on DD, (they don't offer video downloads in HD, you can only rent a movie in HD); by doing that I think that they've found a way where DD can coexist with the B&M Blu Ray products. Blu Ray with its digital copy is I think very good for consumers, because at least you can do what you really want to with your prodcuts. I don't think DD needs to be "THE" standard, but nothing wrong withit being a option. Just like online retailers, coexist with B&M retailers.
 
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Good point, Thomas96. DD can be a viable option for purchases but anyone who thinks it will be the primary option anytime soon is fooling themselves. It will be years (at least) before that could happen.

[quote name='mykevermin']As for what will make me accept digital distribution as the standard? Who am I kidding? The same as it will for you: as long as it takes them to adopt it as the standard. They may drag us kicking and screaming and pissing and moaning, but don't act like you'll give up gaming. :lol:[/quote]

Back in the day, myke, did you think you'd watch less wrestling than you did then? I know you still watch it but is it safe to say you watch noticeably less now? Same principle here. Who know what the circumstances or reasons for it may be in the future but we all tend to ebb and flow in our interests for our hobbies. If this kind of change happens it could certainly cut in to people's interest and passion for games. Would I completely quit playing games? Probably not. Would the amount I play be significantly curtailed? Almost certainly.
 
Yeah, I'm the same. I don't know if I'd ever give up gaming. But I'd definitely buy and play fewer games. Probably limit most purchases to games with good online multiplayer and thus tons of replay value.

But cutting back on gaming is no big deal. The older I get the less I play, and as I said there will be another big cutback when I finish my Ph D this year and start my Assistant Professor position just due to time--so going digital only on top of less free time could conceivably combine to get me out of gaming.

[quote name='neocisco']Good point, Thomas96. DD can be a viable option for purchases but anyone who thinks it will be the primary option anytime soon is fooling themselves. It will be years (at least) before that could happen.
[/QUOTE]

Yep. It's a long time off from being the only option simply because broad band penetration is still poor. Most rural areas have none available--just cable internet/dsl in the towns, but nothing out in the country (unless you count the crappy and overpriced for the speed/reliability satellite internet services).
 
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if they did go dd then thered be no more le or se copies of games since its all digital. unless the le or se games would be the only ones on disk.
 
Broadband is close to getting everywhere. My father-in-law has it and he's out in the boonies. I'm talking children of the corn type boonies.

DD will be the norm. We have a generation of kids that are being raised on iTunes. They love loading thousands of crappy quality MP3s on their iPod because they love convenience over quality.. Unfortunately, we've raised kids that have to have things now and don't want to be bothered with going to the store to buy something. It takes away from valuable IM and facebook time.
 
[quote name='lokizz']if they did go dd then thered be no more le or se copies of games since its all digital. unless the le or se games would be the only ones on disk.[/quote]

Considering how much le/se suck, good we dont need them and its just a way for most companies to rape you more on a shitty making of documentary for 10 dollars.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Broadband is close to getting everywhere. My father-in-law has it and he's out in the boonies. I'm talking children of the corn type boonies.
[/QUOTE]

Just depends. For instance in WV it's pretty much no where outside of cities or towns. My parents have no options other than satellite or dial up. Cable TV is a local mom and pop company owened by 1 guy and he doesn't offer internet. DSL is pretty much no where in rural areas as they're just too far from the COs.
 
populationpenetrationq1rg3.png

Disclaimer: I have no idea how credible this source is
 
[quote name='FloodsAreUponUS']Steam addresses all of these things.
The last thing is dependent on where you live.[/quote]

Great, but I don't play PC games at all. :D I don't feel like having to keep my system in top shape just to play new games. I've seen how much my parents cough up in hardware for their PC gaming habits. I'm very content buying one system and keeping it for four or five years. It is much cheaper and easier to handle.
 
Here are the conditions that would make digital distribution more appealing to me:

1. if manuals were built into the game so I wouldn't miss out on character art or explanations of game mechanics included the print manual.

2. If I the digital version were made available before the box version. I'm impatient so I wouldn't be able to wait on some games, especially on the popular online-shooters where every second of practice/experience online counts in tough competition.

3. If the download speeds were high enough that I couldn't run down to the store and get back with a box copy before the download finishes.

4. If I were be able to re-download my purchased games at anytime, anywhere, and without any hassle. I don't want to have to worry about data corruption or unforeseen hard drive formats.
 
This won't happen for at least 5 or 10 more years. There are too many people that would be unable to download the games. So even if they offer DD they will still offer you the disks via mail or in stores. The question is if they did this how would they sell consoles? The stores only sell the consoles because they make the profit selling the games and accessories. If there is no game profit I imagine some stores will no longer sell any of their stuff.
 
Nothing will ever make me accept it. You have little to no chance of getting the clearance deals were are able to get now in stores like PS3 games for under $5.
 
[quote name='Indiana']This won't happen for at least 5 or 10 more years. There are too many people that would be unable to download the games. So even if they offer DD they will still offer you the disks via mail or in stores. The question is if they did this how would they sell consoles? The stores only sell the consoles because they make the profit selling the games and accessories. If there is no game profit I imagine some stores will no longer sell any of their stuff.[/quote]

I like the way you think, Dr. Jones. This is exactly the point I made a few pages back and no one has offered a response to it. No matter how badly some people want DD it's just not going to happen any time soon.
 
[quote name='neocisco']I like the way you think, Dr. Jones. This is exactly the point I made a few pages back and no one has offered a response to it. No matter how badly some people want DD it's just not going to happen any time soon.[/QUOTE]

I didnt think there was a point to respond to it.

1. I dont think anyone hear really wants DD very badly. Most of us are against it...so ya that was kind of a dumb thing to say.

2. DD is coming sooner then most people think probably and its been argued why....but people just ignore any good points so again why bother responding. Most of us don't think DD is coming this gen. But next gen it probably will be a focus and the generation after next gen it might be the only method.
 
[quote name='M-PG71C']Great, but I don't play PC games at all. :D I don't feel like having to keep my system in top shape just to play new games. I've seen how much my parents cough up in hardware for their PC gaming habits. I'm very content buying one system and keeping it for four or five years. It is much cheaper and easier to handle.[/quote]


Honestly, its not.

You pay 60 dollars for bioshock ill pay 4.99.
 
1. Lower prices as a result of lower manufacturing/distribution costs
2. The ability to gift a purchased title to another user (to allow trading) without penalty
3. Unlimited downloads for a single console
4. Ability to transfer licenses to a new console pending repair/repurchase
5. Ten-year minimum guarantee for download availability on the current console
6. Extended availability on subsequent consoles at a reasonable price (~$5.00) to cover the cost of porting if the console doesn't natively support backwards compatibility
7. No bandwidth caps from telecom providers
8. Ability to upgrade console storage with standard computer components

2 and 6 will not happen, and 7 is out of their control. I don't think I'll ever prefer digital media.
 
The more I'm thinking about this, the more I don't think it'll happen. Wii's phenomenial success (whether gamers like it or not) is that they are appealing to people who never gamed. Your absolutely nuts if you think your non gaming mom and dad are going to go through the hassles of DD. Even if Itunes becomes the standard in music, there is always going to be a CD type market. So, I just can't see Nintendo moving to this type of market quickly.

And if Nintendo doesn't move, it's going to be very difficult for either Sony or Microsoft to 100% force this type of change, when gamers may revolt and purchase their games (especially 3rd party games) on another console.

Since consumers don't want this, it's the sort of change the whole industry would have to try and push at once, or the early adopters may not succeed (early manufacturer adopters).
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']I didnt think there was a point to respond to it.

1. I dont think anyone hear really wants DD very badly. Most of us are against it...so ya that was kind of a dumb thing to say.[/quote]

Several have argued for it and I gave a counterpoint argument backed on more than one point against it...so ya no dumb thing was said.
 
[quote name='lordxixor101']The more I'm thinking about this, the more I don't think it'll happen. Wii's phenomenial success (whether gamers like it or not) is that they are appealing to people who never gamed. Your absolutely nuts if you think your non gaming mom and dad are going to go through the hassles of DD. Even if Itunes becomes the standard in music, there is always going to be a CD type market. So, I just can't see Nintendo moving to this type of market quickly.[/quote]

You're absolutely nuts if you think that that the kids of today won't be parents for the next generation. It's those kids that will be very comfortable with digital distribution and will probably prefer it since they won't have to take care of anything. Look at the condition they leave their stuff in right now.
 
Yep. Things will get more and more digital as generations go on and grow up and have kids. It will be a slow switch over, but it will happen in gaming, music movies etc.

Too much benefit to publishers, and younger generations are more and more about convenience and instant gratification and care less about owning a physical copy of something. They just want to get it right now, play/watch/listen to it a few times and never touch it again.
 
If digital distribution becomes the standard I'll have to accept it, since I won't be giving up gaming for the sake of disagreeing with the delivery method. That said, for me to be happy to to make the switch I need two things:
- To be able to back up what I've downloaded.
- For me to be able to reinstall it wherever I choose, without requiring a net connection.

When I buy games via Steam or through my 360/PS3, I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that one day I won't be able to play what I've paid for.
 
I think a lot of the problems people have isn't so much with DD itself but what it causes to happen. It prevents you from selling or trading your game once you're done with it. That's a big plus in games as opposed to CD's and DVD's, that you can recoup some of your loss. Music was easy to go DD because it's already broken up into easily digestible 4 minute chunks. Movies are a little harder sell on DD due to their length and format. Games are even harder, IMO, also due to the high price point. A price drop on games would help some people be more accepting but it would be naive to think that publishers would voluntarily give up money without being forced into the situation by sluggish sales. DD will happen eventually, yes, but it will be years and most people will have to be absolutely forced into it. It's not good for consumers or retailers, it only benefits publishers.
 
[quote name='neocisco']I think a lot of the problems people have isn't so much with DD itself but what it causes to happen. It prevents you from selling or trading your game once you're done with it. That's a big plus in games as opposed to CD's and DVD's, that you can recoup some of your loss. [/QUOTE]

Yep. And in addition I don't mind having less trade/resell options with CDs and DVDs as I buy them with the intention of wathing/listening to them multiple times over the years and most I do watch/listen to repeatedly. Especially since I've gotten much more selective in what I buy in recent years and have eliminated impulse purchases for the most part.

Where as games I beat them and I'm done with them (or I play online until I get sick of it and I'm done with it), so there's not much value in owning them if I can't sell/trade.

Other's are probably different, I've always been more into music and movies than games and even more so as I get older and have less free time. Easier to watch a 90 minute movie than play a 10-40 hour game (can watch many movies in that time), and I can listen to music while working out, in the office, while working at home etc.

So I could move to digital distribution with movies and music more readily than I can with games as I don't care about trading/reselling so much (I just gave away a slew of DVDs I hadn't watched in a long time). But even there I prefer to have the physical copy. Though I'm all for streaming video rental services as long as I can still buy discs. Netflix Instant watch is great (as is the mail service), so I'm all for digital rentals. Just not digital purchases as the only method.
 
That's exactly my feeling as well. DD is fine as on option but should not be the primary means, or much worse, the only means to get a game.
 
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