Who Supports the Troops? Democrats!

dennis_t

CAGiversary!
At least, according to the non-partisan Iraq and Afghanistan Veteran's Association, which worked up a Congressional report card based on actual votes, rather than flag-waving rhetoric.

Here's the original grade list:

http://iava.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2089&Itemid=221

And here's the same info, reorganized in a list also identifying party affiliation:

http://bobgeiger.blogspot.com/2006/10/iava-support-troops-rankings-for-senate.html

Wow, look at all those Dems who get A's and B's. And not a single Repub above a C.
 
I'm too cynical to think the IAVA is really nonpartisan, but I can't find a goddamned thing on them. The D/R disparity in grades is too clearcut, and looks really suspicious.
 
Yeah I agree it seems too clear cut, either IAVA is pretty partisan or the blogger got his party affiliations wrong (I'm sure as hell not checking...).

McCain got a D?
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']Yeah, I gotta agree with that one.[/QUOTE]

Well, they did give the man who just called our troops in Iraq idiots a "B."
 
To calculate the Ratings, IAVA reviewed all legislation voted on in the Congress since September 11, 2001. For each piece of legislation that affected troops, veterans or military families, IAVA took a position either in support of, or in opposition to its passage. The letter grades were derived from the percentage of times that each legislator's vote matched the official IAVA stance.


Now that we know the basis for the grading system, it should be easy to take these letter grades at their face value, right ? Not necessarily.

It is not an analysis on the troops in iraq, nor afganistan, nor in the global wart on terror. It's not even about those currently serving as veterans and their families are also included in this "grade".

Let us also consider that EVERY piece of legislation affecting every one who is related to or has ever served, past, or present, is a very broad scope and most assuredly ncludes many pork projects that have been burried in other, non-millitary pieces of legislation. It also includes bills like this one: Obey of Wisconsin Amendment; Congressional Budget for FY 2006 ,
or this one: Brady amendment; Spending Control Act of 2004 , or this one which has nothing really to do with millitary affairs: Motion to resolve into secret session 09/26/2006


The point is that it's the important bills that ahould be analyzed when judging one's representatives, not the frivilous ones, or the pork stuffed ones or irrelevant bills. for example, this one seems much more important than 90% of all others on their list : To amend title 10, United States Code, to provide rapid acquisition authority to the Secretary of Defense to respond to combat emergencies 06/14/2004

Anyone who would use this grading system, or any for that matter, to vote for their incumbant representative or their opponent is a fool. But, unfortunately, this type of shortcut thinking gives an intellectual pillow to the 98% of the electorate who have an emotional basis for their vote every two years.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Let us also consider that EVERY piece of legislation affecting every one who is related to or has ever served, past, or present, is a very broad scope and most assuredly ncludes many pork projects that have been burried in other, non-millitary pieces of legislation. It also includes bills like this one: Obey of Wisconsin Amendment; Congressional Budget for FY 2006 ,
or this one: Brady amendment; Spending Control Act of 2004 , or this one which has nothing really to do with millitary affairs: Motion to resolve into secret session 09/26/2006[/quote]

The motion to resolve into secret session had plenty to do with military affairs:

WASHINGTON, Sept. 26 /U.S. Newswire/ -- House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi offered a privileged motion on the House floor today calling for the House to go into secret session to discuss the findings in a reported National Intelligence Estimate that concluded that the war in Iraq was making the war on terror more difficult to fight and win.
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=73210

In addition, the IAVA listed themselves as opposed to the Brady Amendment, which was a bill seeking oversight into how the military funding was being spent (and, "establishes a Federal Sunset Commission to review all federal agencies and programs for their efficiency, effectiveness, redundancy, and need"). Pretty relevant, IMO.

The Obey act was a two parter: the first was $15.8 billion in veterans benefits allocations, the second half was the rollback of some tax breaks on people earning $1 million or more. Based on the first half, it seems relevant, but with a parasite riding on top of it.

Did you look these bills up and type this response yourself?

The point is that it's the important bills that ahould be analyzed when judging one's representatives, not the frivilous ones, or the pork stuffed ones or irrelevant bills. for example, this one seems much more important than 90% of all others on their list : To amend title 10, United States Code, to provide rapid acquisition authority to the Secretary of Defense to respond to combat emergencies 06/14/2004

Anyone who would use this grading system, or any for that matter, to vote for their incumbant representative or their opponent is a fool. But, unfortunately, this type of shortcut thinking gives an intellectual pillow to the 98% of the electorate who have an emotional basis for their vote every two years.

I'd argue that this webpage provides a thorough and crucial (if not poorly organized and somewhat confusing) resource for making a decision on voting. Moreso than, say, lipservice with regards to "family values," "preserving the sanctity of marriage," "putting money back in America's pockets," and so on and so on ad nauseum.

I believe many of the people here can read and think for themselves. I'm still skeptical of the IAVA's overall ranking system, but you can still use the key votes page to find out what your representatives voted on what bill. That's a pretty good resource to simply brush away with no regard.

That, and www.ontheissues.org is still my personal favorite.
 
Pelosi's motion to resolve into secret session was a political opportunity, not a bill on millitary affairs.

And when a veterans benefit bill gets stapled to a tax break bill and it gets voted down, there's no explanation or asterisk to know why a particular legislator voted it down. Was it becuase of the benefit or the tax break? Maybe the benefit was too low - now how does that figure into a percentage grade of B minus ? It's a faulty premise to consider the IAVA's judgement of a bill to be the objective standard to calculate that percentage. There are simply too many variables and angles in voting on any particular bill.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Pelosi's motion to resolve into secret session was a political opportunity, not a bill on millitary affairs.[/quote]

That's your interpretation of it, not fact, darling.

And when a veterans benefit bill gets stapled to a tax break bill and it gets voted down, there's no explanation or asterisk to know why a particular legislator voted it down. Was it becuase of the benefit or the tax break? Maybe the benefit was too low - now how does that figure into a percentage grade of B minus ? It's a faulty premise to consider the IAVA's judgement of a bill to be the objective standard to calculate that percentage. There are simply too many variables and angles in voting on any particular bill.

So we should never base our vote on how a candidate votes? Is that what you're suggesting? Nevertheless, your points ignore the massive list of votes on that kay votes page; while you may be right on *one* vote's contingencies, patterns emerge over dozens of votes cast.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']That's your interpretation of it, not fact, darling. [/quote]

It was a vote to go into secret session, not a vote on any particular issue regarding money, althought that may have been the pretext for the motion. Regardless, if they had taken a vote to go to the bathroom, should this really be included in the grading scale? I don't think so.


So we should never base our vote on how a candidate votes? Is that what you're suggesting? Nevertheless, your points ignore the massive list of votes on that kay votes page; while you may be right on *one* vote's contingencies, patterns emerge over dozens of votes cast.

Of course we should base our votes on the way candidates voted. But the patterns that emerge have a context based on who wrote the bills and how they are worded. If you don't know the angle on the bill, then the way they voted is virtually meaningless.

Let's say there was a bill to give every veteran 10 million dollars written by a democrat, and favored by the IAVA. Arguably not a fiscally responsible bill, but popular by the IAVA's standards. Republicans vote it down and get a "D" on their final exam. Is this a "fair" grade?
 
[quote name='bmulligan']It was a vote to go into secret session, not a vote on any particular issue regarding money, althought that may have been the pretext for the motion. Regardless, if they had taken a vote to go to the bathroom, should this really be included in the grading scale? I don't think so. [/quote]

Oh, give it the fuck up; it was a vote to go into secret session with regard to the NIE. Stop pretending that (1) it's not related to anything of interest to the military and (2) secret sessions are a common occurance. Your bathroom comment suggests you're just grasping at straws for things to say. Why can't you just accept that there is a valid pretext for including this bill?

Of course we should base our votes on the way candidates voted. But the patterns that emerge have a context based on who wrote the bills and how they are worded. If you don't know the angle on the bill, then the way they voted is virtually meaningless.

Let's say there was a bill to give every veteran 10 million dollars written by a democrat, and favored by the IAVA. Arguably not a fiscally responsible bill, but popular by the IAVA's standards. Republicans vote it down and get a "D" on their final exam. Is this a "fair" grade?

Not what I'm arguing. I'm arguing that the IAVA vote page is a helluva condensed resource to see how patterns emerge in voting habits of elected politicians. It sure beats the shit out of searching through Thomas all the goddamned time. I don't put any stock into the "grade" they give (the Dem/Repub split is just too clean to becoincidence), but seeing one page with hundreds of bills is a pretty good place to start when deciding whether or not you want to support candidate X. If something doesn't make sense to you, then check out Thomas.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
I'm arguing that the IAVA vote page is a helluva condensed resource to see how patterns emerge in voting habits of elected politicians. It sure beats the shit out of searching through Thomas all the goddamned time. I don't put any stock into the "grade" they give (the Dem/Repub split is just too clean to becoincidence), but seeing one page with hundreds of bills is a pretty good place to start when deciding whether or not you want to support candidate X. If something doesn't make sense to you, then check out Thomas.[/QUOTE]

Glad to know we concurr on the grading system. You get an "A" for effort, though, for still trying to appear that we're in disagreement :)
 
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