Who won the 1st Presidential debate? Vote!

Obama doesn't have a strong enough presence to really own a debate, but as far as what was said he ruled. Anyone, anywhere reading a transcript of the debate will say Obama > McCain.
 
I'm about halfway through the debate, and I don't think I've even seen McCain even look Obama square in the eyes even once, yet Obama is directing much of his talk directly at McCain (granted, only after the moderator told him to do so early on).

These are serious issues, and I don't like the fact that McCain is smiling and giving that "Politician's Grin" whenever he isn't talking. Obama, on the other hand, is taking this very seriously and it definitely shows whenever the camera is on him (I don't know if he's scratching his balls when it's off him).

Watching the second half now, I'll post again with my final thoughts later.

~HotShotX
 
[quote name='rumblebear']The debate sucked as expected. Both were terrible. McCain just kept on regurgitating talking points instead of actually answering the questions, and had awkward facial expressions like he just underwent botox injection. Obama acted like the stereotypical sleazy double talking politician who's full of himself and his "I have superior judgment because I made a speech against the Iraq War in order to get reelected in a radically left, Bush hating district". If I had to decide who won the debate, I would go with McCain because he came off least bad. Obama came off as the unlikable asswipe snake oil salesmen, with his shameless ploy "I have a bracelet too" and then had to look down at it because he forgot the inscribed soldier's name.



It's a shame we didn't get a Hillary vs Huckabee match up. These two are far superior debaters.[/QUOTE]


What is sleazy about Obama or what he said?

What exactly did he "typically" double talk about?

He spoke out against that war when it was really unpopular on both sides....politically and and in the eyes of the general public and it was not when he was running nor was he being reelected. I live in ILL, and let me tell its far from being a Bush Hating state (maybe the Chicago area and not so much in 2003). Also how do you know his motives on the comments about the war he made in 2003 when you can't even get facts correct about generally political climate right?

What made the "bracelet" comment "snake oil" and "salesmen" like, he was simply responding to McCain's attempt to monopolize "The right owns patriotism and supporting our troops" (which come on McCain hasn't work for over 3 years). Yes he stumbled on the name because it was a longer name, he probably did plan on mentioning it, and didn't want to get his name incorrect. I have been giving speeches in class and stumbled on my own family member's name due to just having to think about too much and second guessing my memory of a name.

Please answers these questions. They have nothing to do with "facts" its just about explaining your own opinions and beliefs that should be easy, since it was so easy for you to assert all these negative ideas.
 
[quote name='Koggit']Trying to have a conversation with Rumblebear is a bad idea, that kid's a wiener.[/QUOTE]

What exactly makes him a "wiener"? haha...maybe because I used to be all, "F the government and all politicians are liars", that these comments annoy the hell out of me.

Maybe its because I feel Obama is one of the first candidates to be this far from those stereotypes in long time. Say what you will about his beliefs or his ability to carry out his promises, but one must admit that he is very honest, straight forward, and logical. I have yet to see him "double talk" or "lie" or avoid a question.

I sick and tired of these Obama is like everyone else just because he is politician.

Also this kid thinks Huckabee v Clinton would be a good race/debate?????
I would be watching the debates from my new home in Canada if that were the case.
 
[quote name='gareman']What exactly makes him a "wiener"? haha...maybe because I used to be all, "F the government and all politicians are liars", that these comments annoy the hell out of me.

Maybe its because I feel Obama is one of the first candidates to be this far from those stereotypes in long time. Say what you will about his beliefs or his ability to carry out his promises, but one must admit that he is very honest, straight forward, and logical. I have yet to see him "double talk" or "lie" or avoid a question.

I sick and tired of these Obama is like everyone else just because he is politician.

Also this kid thinks Huckabee v Clinton would be a good race/debate?????
I would be watching the debates from my new home in Canada if that were the case.[/QUOTE]

He has double talked on a few subjects like NAFTA and FAFSA and spread lies about McCain recently. Given these arnt nearly as bad as the lies or double talk from McCain or other politicians, but Obama has been far from the perfect candidate of change either.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']He has double talked on a few subjects like NAFTA and FAFSA and spread lies about McCain recently. Given these arnt nearly as bad as the lies or double talk from McCain or other politicians, but Obama has been far from the perfect candidate of change either.[/QUOTE]

Well.....I did watch the "Obama lies" ad which I will give Obama to critics (although I would argue that I have not heard him lie, personally...not that that's better), and as fair as double talking...I view double talking as not changing your mind or even saying a different position. Double talking to me is when you switch positions without giving a reason and/or denying your original position...there's nothing wrong with changing your mind or even acting differently than one has talked at the last minute. As long as one has a reason for why they acted that way and how the came to a different conclusion.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I think you mean FISA and not FAFSA.[/QUOTE]

Sigh, yes yes I do....I slip up like that far too often.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I think you mean FISA and not FAFSA.[/QUOTE]

Thats what I was thinking....although I wasn't sure what Obama views have/are towards student aid.

With the FIFSA bill Obama addressed signing it and why he did in a 3 page article that was posted online to a group condemning Obama for it. Which is pretty amazing considering it was a relatively small internet group, that a front runner for the white house would take the time to give a lengthy personal and honest response to such a unpublicized issue.

Basically Obama explained that he needed to look tough on national security and although the bill was not perfect it was a lot better than it was originally introduced. So even when he is politicking he still is honest about it.
 
That does bring up another issue though, i haven't much from either candidate about the cost of education and financial aid for students.
 
Big O did mention last night that he wants to increase spending for early childhood education.

From his website:
Higher Education


  • Create the American Opportunity Tax Credit: Obama and Biden will make college affordable for all Americans by creating a new American Opportunity Tax Credit. This universal and fully refundable credit will ensure that the first $4,000 of a college education is completely free for most Americans, and will cover two-thirds the cost of tuition at the average public college or university and make community college tuition completely free for most students. Recipients of the credit will be required to conduct 100 hours of community service.
  • Simplify the Application Process for Financial Aid: Obama and Biden will streamline the financial aid process by eliminating the current federal financial aid application and enabling families to apply simply by checking a box on their tax form, authorizing their tax information to be used, and eliminating the need for a separate application.
Click to expand...
 
I'd say Obama, in my opinion John was not able to stay on topic and focus.

Also, to me it seemed like John wasn't bringing anything new to the debate, it was like he was a parrot mimicking everything Obama said.
 
I don't know about the 100 hours of community service, to me that's something that should be done because you want to, not because you're required. Also, if they're talking tax credit, that means the money will still have to be paid up front, but you'd be able to deduct it from your taxes, correct?
 
But what about people who are taking 15-18 hours of classes, plus working on top of that, doesn't leave much time for community service.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']I don't know about the 100 hours of community service, to me that's something that should be done because you want to, not because you're required. Also, if they're talking tax credit, that means the money will still have to be paid up front, but you'd be able to deduct it from your taxes, correct?[/QUOTE]

I like it personally. Its a way to get young people involved in the community, and it's not that many hours for the amount of money they get for school.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']But what about people who are taking 15-18 hours of classes, plus working on top of that, doesn't leave much time for community service.[/quote]

Clearly, I can't answer that question fully. It's my guess that you'll be allowed to perform the hours within a certain time limit or perhaps during the summer months.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']I don't know about the 100 hours of community service, to me that's something that should be done because you want to, not because you're required. Also, if they're talking tax credit, that means the money will still have to be paid up front, but you'd be able to deduct it from your taxes, correct?[/QUOTE]

Its better than the military that targets the poor and uneducated, and you don't have to kill for it.
 
[quote name='cochesecochese']Clearly, I can't answer that question fully. It's my guess that you'll be allowed to perform the hours within a certain time limit or perhaps during the summer months.[/quote]

100 hours within a year, I believe. It's not that hard to do, even with classes and a part-time job.

For example, I help organize and run the blood drives on my campus, something that takes about 8 hours a day, 2 days in a row, twice a semester. Which equates to 32 hours a semester for the drive itself, not including time spent putting up flyers, etc. That's roughly 65-70 hours in itself.

Anyone in a fraternity/sorority also clocks in volunteer hours on a regular basis, around 35 per semester as required by house rules. Another 30 or so and they qualify for the credit.

~HotShotX
 
[quote name='lordwow']I'd be interested to see how they're going to regulate the 100 hours.[/quote]

I did a year with AmeriCorps and a lot of work with Hands On Atlanta. You track this kind of work by maintaining a timesheet that has to be signed by a supervisor, project coordinator, etc. for whatever time you're logging.

I think mandatory community service for students or service in exchange for scholarships is one of the best damn ideas I've ever heard. Americans have this mindset that "serving your country" always means joining the military, but there are a Hell of lot more ways to serve, IMO: working with the homeless, doing environmental remediation, working in national parks, helping in disadvantaged schools -- on and on. And I think more of our young people should be compelled to give back to their communities (and not just to get points taken off their license).

I gave a year of my life to my country through AmeriCorps, managing a team of six people tutoring inner city kids in reading, providing teacher assistance, and running after school programs. I'm extremely proud of that work, and wish more people could have that experience.
 
100/yr is nothing especially considering you get $4,000. College students shouldn't mind doing community service at all anyway, since it'll help when applying to professional/grad school.
 
I'm sure there are millions of Americans who wouldn't mind doing it.

Which then begs the question, where are those billions of dollars coming from? If just 10% of the nation opts in, which I think is a reasonable estimate, that's over 100 billion dollars in tax credit. Where's that coming from?
 
"What Senator Obama doesn't seem to understand."

I heard the quote so much I'm going to be hearing it in my sleep. Just finished watching the debate...and I have to say Obama came out far more aggressive and direct, while McCain seemed to rehearse the same talking points he normally uses when arguing his opponents. All issues aside (which by now we've become quite familiar with and have already decided upon which we agree on), I have to say Obama takes this one. You may not agree with his stance on the issues, but I think after that hour, he's going to be fresher in your mind than McCain.

At its conclusion, I don't think McCain looked directly at Obama even once during the entire debate.

~HotShotX
 
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[quote name='Koggit']I'm sure there are millions of Americans who wouldn't mind doing it.

Which then begs the question, where are those billions of dollars coming from? If just 10% of the nation opts in, which I think is a reasonable estimate, that's over 100 billion dollars in tax credit. Where's that coming from?[/quote]

Ummmmmm...Legalize pot and tax it? :roll:

How about a national lottery? That's how we fund the HOPE scholarship here in Georgia. Bobby Joe's gambling addiction paid way through college. ;)
 
Something's been bothering me. Who did Obama get his pin from again? I remember some stuttering, but I don't think he ever gave an answer.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']Something's been bothering me. Who did Obama get his pin from again? I remember some stuttering, but I don't think he ever gave an answer.[/quote]

The mother of some sergeant who died in Iraq or some other made up bullshit.

Does it really matter? Would it change your position on Iraq?

...

I think Chris Rock had the best analysis of the debate. It wasn't a knockout for Obama and you can't beat the white man, you have to knock him out.

...

As far as questions ...

If Obama doesn't understand something, how will Palin?
 
Palin doesn't have to do this back-and-forth, right? She just has to remember the answers McCain's staff practices with her.

Even that, though, I don't think she can do.
 
I don't recall Obama talking about a pin.. I think that McCain was the one babbling about some pin.. I could be wrong though...
 
[quote name='DJSteel']I don't recall Obama talking about a pin.. I think that McCain was the one babbling about some pin.. I could be wrong though...[/quote]

They both brought a bracelet that was given to them by the parent of a fallen soldier in the war. That was all I can recall.

As for pins however, Obama was the only one who wore one. All that aside, if you're deciding your vote based on who does and does not wear a flag lapel pin, you're a fucking moron and need your voting rights revoked.

~HotShotX
 
[quote name='bigdaddy']No "no winner"?

This poll sucks.[/QUOTE]

No, because there isn't any "no winner" option on the ballot card in November. One of these two is going to win and I wanted a purely unscientific judge of the debate. :booty:
 
Just because one of these two will win in November (which might not be true, one could die) doesn't mean that either wins the debate, it was a draw.
 
[quote name='HotShotX']They both brought a bracelet that was given to them by the parent of a fallen soldier in the war. That was all I can recall.

As for pins however, Obama was the only one who wore one. All that aside, if you're deciding your vote based on who does and does not wear a flag lapel pin, you're a fucking moron and need your voting rights revoked.

~HotShotX[/QUOTE]

i agree..lol.. tell me you didn't start laughing when McCain busted out the maverick ad right there on stage..
 
[quote name='bigdaddy']Just because one of these two will win in November (which might not be true, one could die) doesn't mean that either wins the debate, it was a draw.[/QUOTE]

Pretty much every single poll says differently.
 
[quote name='DJSteel']I don't recall Obama talking about a pin.. I think that McCain was the one babbling about some pin.. I could be wrong though...[/quote]

McCain used his bracelet from a dead soldier's mother as a pandering tactic. Obama simply said he had one too and left it at that. Probably to indicate McCain isn't "special" or "the chosen one" because he had one given to him. Essentially that the bracelet was akin to the World's Greatest Grandpa coffee mug.
 
[quote name='crunchb3rry']McCain used his bracelet from a dead soldier's mother as a pandering tactic. Obama simply said he had one too and left it at that. Probably to indicate McCain isn't "special" or "the chosen one" because he had one given to him. Essentially that the bracelet was akin to the World's Greatest Grandpa coffee mug.[/quote]

It was also to show that not every mother thinks the war ending means that their child died in vain. It shows that people traveling the exact same path can reach different conclusions, and that there isn't necessarily a "right" or a "wrong" way.

Though admittedly, I felt Obama came off as a bit of a dick when he said "Hey, I've got a bracelet too", it was too brash in regards to a dead soldier.

~HotShotX
 
[quote name='Msut77']Pretty much every single poll says differently.[/quote]


:rofl:

Yes because the person who wins the first debate will win the whitehouse! If that was the case Obama would be up by 25 points in election polls.
 
Abortion and John McCain's age is what's going to decide this election. I think women will ultimately vote for a brother than be forced to give birth to one.
 
[quote name='bigdaddy']:rofl:

Yes because the person who wins the first debate will win the whitehouse! If that was the case Obama would be up by 25 points in election polls.[/quote]

That's not what the poster said. The poster said this debate was not a tie among undecided voters, or voters overall, judging by every single scientific poll so far.
 
[quote name='Koggit']100/yr is nothing especially considering you get $4,000. College students shouldn't mind doing community service at all anyway, since it'll help when applying to professional/grad school.[/QUOTE]I agree. I wish I did it myself. Sounds like a good idea.
 
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